Rate & Review: "Diary Queen" (QABF05)

How would you rate this episode?


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the nice, albeit short and borderline anecdotic, sendoff with Ned and Edna dancing together was in one of his episodes (and by a long margin the best scene in said godawful episode).
I don't like that episode either, but for some reason I always assumed it was a case of an episode where I hated it but everyone else liked it.

stuff like driving Chalmer's car is too much even for him
Speaking of Chalmers, what was your opinion on "Slim-mer!"?

Bart reading the diary in a church was there just because the writers thought it would be funny to add yet another priest joke that is just getting old
What's are some other pastor jokes they've done in the past besides this one? The only reason why this one stood out was because FG also had their own "Sex offender at a church" gag the same night and for once The Simpsons' ended up having theirs be the more terrible of the two.

Edna's line, which, even if I didn't remember instantly that her line came from The Seemingly Never Ending Story, I just found off in such a situation. Again it just feels like a device.
It's sad that the only good thing you can say about that line being reused was "Well, their hearts were likely in the right place" because otherwise nothing about it being used here worked the way they intended.
 
(even though I still think that stuff like driving Chalmer's car is too much even for him)

I really don't see how that would be too out of character for Bart to steal someones car out for a drive, which is why I didn't mind that sequence (Also, it did remind me of Bart On The Road', but not even close to pulled off as well).

In the end, Diary Queen is more clumsy than anything else. At least it made me care about most of the characters even if some of them and especially Lisa mostly feels like plot devices (really this episode could've used more Bart and Ned), it has its fair shair of emotional ideas and a couple of scenes work in that regard. But the sendoff aspect of this one is disappointing as far as I'm concerned, since like I said, Edna's scene whose purpose is to help Bart feeling confident again doesn't really feel natural to me despite fully knowing that they had to compromise, to the point where she comes off as a plot device herself (which isn't exactly a good way to make an homage), but at least the ending montage was a nice goodbye. Other than that, it's disjointed, wastes the opportunity it has on its hands, and has its lame jokes.

I think this sums up the episode well for me. The plot device stuff with Lisa, Ned & even Edna was the biggest weakness of the episode and it ended up feeling like such a great plot for Bart was done kinda dirty in the end. It was also as if the eposode couldn't really decide what it really wanted to be and kind of flip-flopped around, but it is a Westbrook episode after all. Maybe Selman could have saved it?).

Also, it feels like I'm alone around here on thinking that the Edna sendoff was done decently despite the the reused line. It was not pulled off all too good (I still would still have liked for them to dig in the audio archive to use some unused material), but it could have done way worse and ultimately, I cannot fully agree with [MENTION=75269]John95[/MENTION] that absolutely nothing about it worked. Maybe on a rewatch it will work less well, but as of now I think I didn't mind so much.
 
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I don't like that episode either, but for some reason I always assumed it was a case of an episode where I hated it but everyone else liked it.

That's fine if some people liked it but I can't see such an episode being liked by everyone. Faaar from it.

Speaking of Chalmers, what was your opinion on "Slim-mer!"?

One lame joke among many others, but nothing to write home about.

What's are some other pastor jokes they've done in the past besides this one? The only reason why this one stood out was because FG also had their own "Sex offender at a church" gag the same night and for once The Simpsons' ended up having theirs be the more terrible of the two.

There was that one in The Fat Blue Line, which I liked but because it didn't feel as random as it feels here. Really it's as if the writers were like "hey I want to add a dirty priest joke, just throw it in, we'll add a random scene at the church".

I really don't see how that would be too out of character for Bart to steal someones car out for a drive, which is why I didn't mind that sequence (Also, it did remind me of Bart On The Road', but not even close to pulled off as well).

I wouldn't say it's completely out of character but I just feel like it's a bit too wacky for the sake of it, even with Bart on the Road in mind. I mean, it's the kind of "stuff happens" joke, which doesn't have any sort of repercussion (even though Wiggum and Chalmers know they stole his car, it's like nothing happened when the second act is reached). Maybe I'm overthinking it but that's just how I feel it.

The plot device stuff with Lisa, Ned & even Edna was the biggest weakness of the episode and it ended up feeling like such a great plot for Bart was done kinda dirty in the end. It was also as if the eposode couldn't really decide what it really wanted to be and kind of flip-flopped around, but it is a Westbrook episode after all. Maybe Selman could have saved it?

Perhaps he could have, though I don't want to say Selman can make any episode good under his watch because there were some Selman stinkers. But I'm pretty sure he would have handled the pacing of this episode in a better way than Jean did. So yeah, I don't say it would automatically have been a good one, but at least a smoother one.

Also, it feels like I'm alone around here on thinking that the Edna sendoff was done decently despite the the reused line.

I don't think you're the only one, I saw this scene on YouTube recently and there was a lot of positive comments about it. And again, that's fine if you liked it.
 
I wouldn't say it's completely out of character but I just feel like it's a bit too wacky for the sake of it, even with Bart on the Road in mind. I mean, it's the kind of "stuff happens" joke, which doesn't have any sort of repercussion (even though Wiggum and Chalmers know they stole his car, it's like nothing happened when the second act is reached). Maybe I'm overthinking it but that's just how I feel it.

I don't think you're overthinking it. I found it kinda exaggerated and wacky as well (and that is wasn't followed up on just ever so briefly is definitely a story miss) but I just didn't think it was as bad compared to how absurd the show can get a lot of the time in the HD era and while I would've preferred something simpler (sort of like Bart using the passcode to the teacher's lounge) I was still okay with it.

Perhaps he could have, though I don't want to say Selman can make any episode good under his watch because there were some Selman stinkers. But I'm pretty sure he would have handled the pacing of this episode in a better way than Jean did. So yeah, I don't say it would automatically have been a good one, but at least a smoother one.

You are probably right that he probably only could have done so much for the story. Like many others, I find that Selman can succeed but he can fail just as well (or at least deliver average episodes) and this one with him could propably have been marginally better, but like when he helmed 'Road To Cincinnati' with Westbrook, I think he could have done better than Jean.

I don't think you're the only one, I saw this scene on YouTube recently and there was a lot of positive comments about it. And again, that's fine if you liked it.

I didn't say I outright liked the way they handled the Edna sendoff plot (which I didn't as it fell short of greatness), but was okay with how they did it in the end (even with the compromise of the reused line).

I do agree with your final assessment of it that it could have been handled a whole lot better and did make Edna feel like a plot device with the reused line but I found they did an okay/alright (if lackluster) job with the Edna sendoff with what they had in the end. It wasn't the biggest issue of the episode to me (the lack of good focus on Ned & Edna's legacy as a whole being worse, as was Lisa's ham-fisted sloppy plot device role), but the fairly uninspired way they gave Edna her sendoff was no doubt a problem that robbed the episode of some points.

Also, Bart's characterization was great (as I too said) and definitely a highlight of an otherwise mediocre episode.
 
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It was nice seeing how much Edna loved her cat. Most characters seem to be dog people so it was nice seeing a cat person for once. There is the crazy cat lady but she is a parody. But this bears the question... what happened to the cat after she died?

I also think Lisa should have more faith in Bart. She doesn't need to worry about him all the time he can learn from his own experiences even if he is not as smart and wise as she is.
 
This was a sweet episode. Marcia Wallace's death was the Simpsons-related loss I was the most saddened by, so it was nice to see an episode pay tribute to her.
The yard sale number was random but amusing; I even thought it was funny when Rod and Todd Flanders ran off in a Hanna-Barbera -esque fashion (as if often using H-B's "bite" sound effect throughout the series wasn't enough!) and I also enjoyed seeing Stampy again!
I also felt sad when Bart got upset among learning the truth about the diary praising Edna's cat and not Bart.
I also loved the photo montage at the end. R.I.P. Marcia Wallace and Edna Krabappel... it really felt like her spirit was there. I give this episode a 4 out of 5 because of it being a tribute to Marcia and Edna.
 
It was nice seeing how much Edna loved her cat. Most characters seem to be dog people so it was nice seeing a cat person for once. There is the crazy cat lady but she is a parody. But this bears the question... what happened to the cat after she died?

I assume that Ned gave it an animal shelter to be up for pet adoption. It feels like something he'd do.

Also, speaking of the cat, I found it kinda amusing that for all the great things Edna wrote about it (even as far as making it sound like a child, which is why Bart mistook the writing to be about him) she was allergic to it. That was a detail I liked.
 
I wanted to give this a high score but Lisa prevented me from doing it. It was great to see Bart got confidence after reading the diary. I agree that it went too far to see Bart drive Chalmers' car. Bart was a little too cocky but I was happy for him. Lisa may have brought him back down to Earth but she did the right thing. Seeing Bart and Flanders talk and seeing that Edna really cared for was sweet. 2.5
 
[MENTION=52045]sideshow ken[/MENTION] Would you like me to round that score down to a 2 or up to a 3 for the community poll?
 
Are post-mortem appearances a recurrent thing now? Rabbi Krustofsky in season 28, Mona Simpson in season 29, Maude Flanders in season 31, Edna Krabappel now. This is a weird pattern but most of these returns turned out to be acceptable and quite special. This one is, by far, the most special, because Edna was retired due to the decease of her voice actress. I don't know you guys, but I am ready for a touching return of Troy McClure and/or Lionel Hutz, if that's possible. Phil Hartman deserves it as well.
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In the last year, Todd, Todd, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me? settled the debt giving a proper send-off to Maude Flanders 20 years after the character was killed off. This episode, however, is not a late last goodbye to Edna Krabappel. This feels more like a sweet and soft return to keep her present, something I celebrate because I always thought removing the character was a big mistake, both for the show and as a tribute to Marcia Wallace. I stand by that there is no better homage to the voice actors than keeping their characters alive. Anyway, the most remarkable thing about this send-off that is not a send-off was the new chapter in the short novel of Nedna. Let's not forget that the writer of this episode, Jeff Westbrook, pitched the idea of pairing them up – an idea I am still ambivalent about –, wrote a second episode to spontaneously marrying them a season after, and dedicated the fourth act of one of his episodes to make a heart-warming tribute to Edna from Ned's perspective. Although I question almost his entire career, I am glad he could close this adventure and give a solid last-shot to this couple. In retrospect, the marriage of Ned and Edna has no outstanding moments but it was fresh air to have something innovative and with continuity. It was nice to see a family meeting of the Flanders where Edna participates, and the moment when Ned reads a phrase about him in her diary is touching and vibrant. It's nice to know she had a nice last year after so many episodes that showed her frustrated and solitary. "Now that I've been with Ned a year he's made my life a living dream come true". That was a truly great line, a touching scene, and a beautiful ending for Nedna. Watching Ned thrilled after reading that was quite emotive. Props to Westbrook in the intention of this series of episodes and this ending as well.
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We know a few little details and fun facts about her life, like that she taught Bart to read (did he learned at ten years old?) that she had a cat "as smart as a whip", that she is allergic to cats (isn't that contradictory?) that she had an intimate diary where she wrote stuff like where Chalmers has they keys of his car or the password of the teacher's lounge. Eh, nothing of this has much sense, but there are not alarming mistakes or serious cohesive problems, so it's fine for me. The participation of Edna is oriented to those gossips so, once again, this is not the big deal. The voice acting of Edna Krabappel was taken from archives recorded by Wallace. And I have a little problem with them: why would Edna say/write exactly the same she said other times? Her first intervention comes from Bart Gets a 'Z' and here it's something she wrote in her diary, while the second one, from The Seemingly Never-Ending Story was repeated in a family meeting. These quotes are quite iconic even if they come from relatively recent episodes, and I guess they were good choices, but I didn't like how they implemented them. The other time they used this trick, in Left Behind, Ned remembered Edna said that once. I don't know, it feels like if everything related to the return of Edna was very flawed here. But at least it all was well-intentioned. From a critical perspective, it was quite mediocre, but as a fan who wants to have a good time and who has a profound respect for Marcia Wallace, it was all right. To end this part of my review on a positive note, I loved the series of pictures rolled along with the credits. Callbacks to previous episodes mixed up with new images, included one that I thought was really nice: Edna watching The Bob Newhart Show, another show where Marcia Wallace worked. It was a beautiful detail.
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It's a shame that everything I have written so far represents an important but minor part of the episode. After all, it's supposed to be a Bart-centric story. Mrs. Krabappel only injected a dose of enthusiasm and motivation to the kid, who improves considerably after it. It was really sweet to discover Mrs. Krabappel esteemed him and had faith in him. Nobody in Springfield seems to be an adequate teacher, but she was in-depth. Besides, it was nice to have a characterization of Bart that easily avoids all the typical problems of the character: far away from a sociopath, far away from a loser, far away from being a retard, far away from being a teenager. The idea sounds promising but its execution, again, was flawed. I refuse to believe that Bart will read so carelessly the diary of his teacher. That's quite invasive and disrespectful. I would like it more if the message would come through another channel. Another problem I had here is that there is a lot of filling. The opening song lasts for two or three minutes and it's distracting they used a song they already parodied in the past. The montage of how would be Bart's life as an adult once he changed his mind was on way too long and it's totally inconsequential. Worst of all, it was immediately followed by another montage that I enjoyed a bit more, with Bart doing good acts and helping people, but which, in any case, is still expendable. The episode should have focused a lot more on Bart's changes. I would say that I liked the reconciliations he had with Skinner and Willie, that I loved how Bart believes in himself and discover his unlimited potential, that I enjoyed how the kid gets good marks in his tests. But no, those things are restricted to one scene, two at best. In the end, the entire story of Bart feels like an excuse to bring back Edna, which was lazy and superficial. And still, now I can not deduce if it all was about Edna or Bart. Or both. Or none. What a mess.
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I quite liked the role of Ned Flanders in this one since he is the widower of Edna and he has always been like a father figure for Bart, so his appearance is highly justifiable from both perspectives. Their conversation in the treehouse was adorable, and I like he was much more than a religious maniac. Bart also had an adorable conversation in the treehouse along with Lisa where she discovers the misunderstanding but shuts up to don't disappoint Bart. That scene is surprisingly great. The voice acting of Nancy and Yeardley, the hesitations of Lisa, another outstanding scene in the night delivered by Matthew Nastuk, and genuinely well-written dialogues, except for that Bart/pony cloud that I'll just add to the vast list of awful or unrealistic gags from Westbrook's episodes along with the cameo of Jesus and Meryl Streep. Continuing my exposition about Lisa, I can't understand why there is so much about her in this episode. Even if it's true that I have a particular problem with her pessimism and damaging involvement practically every time Bart successes, in this episode it's worse because it's a redundant and unnecessary inclusion that adds pacing problems to the story and just doesn't suit the homage to Edna nore the new attitude of Bart at all. Bart could discover it for himself if he would continue reading, that's why the entire plot of Lisa is needless. Also, I can't buy at all the moral conflict of Lisa because I think Bart actually has that potential and there is no reason to believe he would be humiliated in a sleeping bee contest. At worst, he could have lost it and that's all. The participation of Lisa should have been limited to the same extent as Marge's, wondering how Bart got a 100%. Everything else was (more) filling.
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It never happened to me, but I don't know if I liked this episode. The idea is appreciable, the tribute of Edna is mostly pleasurable, the story is a tad bit original. But the execution is poor. There are pacing problems, there are lots of expendable scenes, and I can not even get what the episode tried out. Weird. I will give it the middle grade and move on. Sorry if the review is confused but I am still confused with the episode.

3/5
 
[MENTION=75686]Szyslak100[/MENTION], I don't blame you for feeling confused and torn on the episode (and I do agree with your take on it overall). It was a very confused, all over the place episode in the end (with scenes that go on for too long and/or felt pointless and some shoddy pacing throughout) and it very much could have benefitted from a clear focus on Bart, Ned and Edna and little to no Lisa, but that feels impossible with it being a Westbrook & Jean episode (it maybe could have succeeded better with Westbrook & Selman, but it's not something I'd count on).
 
In the end, the entire story of Bart feels like an excuse to bring back Edna, which was lazy and superficial. And still, now I can not deduce if it all was about Edna or Bart. Or both. Or none. What a mess.
The way I saw it was that it was a Bart episode, which marketed itself as a tribute/sendoff to Edna even though she comes off as nothing more then a plot device and is briefly hijacked by Lisa who doesn't even feel like an actual character but rather also a plot device who ultimately comes across as callous since her contribution to the episode ends after she destroys Bart's confidence.
 
Started off pretty badly with the superfluous musical number, and I'm not sure the plot really worked, but there were some decent and surprisingly subtle jokes later on (the reverend being led away by the police, "spelling bee hear") that saved it. C+ (3/5)
 
Well, I kind of liked it. I found the plot interesting, even though I didn’t believe Edna was a diary person and the first half was funny enough. When Lisa joined, I thought it was going to be one of those episodes where she is cruel to Bart for frivolous reasons, but no.

Edna’s speech at the end tried to be emotional but it was quite cringeworthy, the same for the thing with Lisa’s pimples. However, the passage Ned read in Edna’s diary was sweet.

3,5/5 (3/5).
 
Actually quite a sweet episode in places, Bart's voice is different but I don't mind it too much. Could have done without the priest joke though. I am tired of Lisa constantly undermining Bart however this time it was somewhat different as she was conflicted about telling him the truth. Overall 3.5/5 rounded to a 3/5.
 
The problem with this episode was need to add various jokes, gags in order to complete the tribute story.:oops:

The story with Bart got motto to become better, from a lovely late teacher, a lovely iconic character. Sounds good? Actually, yes. But Lisa's uncertainty in Bart was strange. She didn't believe in own brother nor even try to use old technique with support the lie? Strange as for modern Lisa, isn't it?

The musical start (with great choreography) was great, as the joke with swears jar Nelson took.😄 Also the best in whole episode was the last act, correctly last 3 minutes - great! Tears-caused emotions, and beautiful reuse quote from TSNES and end montage🥲 The part between it was… actually not bad as I had thought during first watch, but with some useless I mentioned in problem.

plot 19/25
absurdity (the possibility of what is happening and whether I liked it) 23/25
comedy 16/25
originality (level of references and whether I liked them) 23/25

TOTAL 81/100 (strong 4/5, or B) GOOD!
 
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I rewatched this episode and yeah, I think I'm bumping down my rating from a 3/5 (rounded up from 2.5/5) to a 2/5.

Look, I still think that it's got a solid premise: Bart ending up inadvertedly getting his hands on the late Edna Krabappel's diary and starting to do try do his best in school and do goo when reading all the inspiring things he wrote (unbeknowst that she actually wrote all of that about her cat, which really do showed how lonely she used to be before Ned). It's a really good plot and is a great way to show that just with the right words and enouragement, Bart can do really well and really become something (a far cry from the useless loser he used to be portrayed as several seasons ago) and also has a bit on Edna's legacy, but the script and showrunning does it no favors.

I think the problem is that there's the typical Jean-isms that obnoxiously get in the way, starting off with the overlong West Side Story homage which went on for, like, nearly 3 minutes (when 1 minute would've been enough) and once the story does get started, it still has a lot of padding and unnecessary/forced/bad jokes and unnecessary Jean background gags as characters have a conversation (the dirty priest one, for example ; also I noticed a sloppy error as when the police catches the priest and take him away, why do they escort him back into the church?) but also gets lost with overlong scenes with secondary characters: Just focus on the plot itself instead of getting distracted by giving this and that character an extended moment for no reason (like, we don't need some lengthy Dr. Hibbert or Willie bit, etc).

I'm also pretty annoyed by how at first it is clearly a Bart plot, but once Lisa's subplot kicks in (her being suspicious why Bart's doing so well in school and needs to be nosey and dig up the truth & once she does, she feels bad of not letting Bart know the truth, etc.) it kind of feels like it hijacks the story althogether and gets far too much attention before we go back to Bart (whose part in the story is obviously the best and most interesting aspect) and once she lets Bart know and crushes him (and he runs away sobbing), she's all like "Poor Bart, but nevermind that s**t! My stress "bumpies" are gone!" and she's not seen again: That just put a bad taste in my mouth.

At least the episode does get an OK end with Ned being the one who manage to get Bart's spirits up again with some comforting words (and the Edna end montage was kinda sweet), but yeah, the sloppy and messy script and lackluster showrunnng by Westbrook & Jean respectively really sunk it. Disappointing episode to say the least (In retrospect I wish that Selman & Omine did this one).
 
Sending a quick request out for those of you who contributed written reviews and scores for this episode to transplant them directly into the poll (at the top of this thread). You may also choose to revise them accordingly when doing so.

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@dorian
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Consolidating your written scores into the poll itself will make subsequent consensus score updates for this episode easier to track in the future.

I'm going to be staggering these requests out over the hiatus break so as to not flood you with notifications but if you'd like to forego that and get a jump start on updating your scores in other Season 31 & 32 polls ahead of time that'll result in fewer reminders heading your way as well.

Also, please do go back and update your scores from earler episodes in this stretch if you have yet to do so.

Will welcome fresh votes as well from those of you who haven't contrbuted to the poll yet as well.

Thanks in advance for your assistance on this!
 
Having just revisited this episode, I actually have no problem with Lisa's role (though I think it would have better served Marge). I mean, come on, this is Bart we're talking about. It would strain credulity for everyone to just accept he's suddenly getting good grades even if he's genuine. It makes perfect sense to me that Lisa and Marge would be suspicious, leading the former to find the diary and discover the truth. Naturally, she would be conflicted. This all tracks to me. Ultimately, Lisa doesn't crush Bart's spirits because of jealously or spite, but out of genuine concern that he's going to humiliate himself publicly (which, y'know, was going to happen). While I agree it's handled a bit clumsily at times (i.e. Lisa calling Bart a phoney at the assembly and, later, getting distracted by her bumps disappearing), I think this did a fairly good job of showing how conflicted and remorseful she felt about it. Like I said though, I wonder if Marge should have played this role instead. The series has a lot of baggage with casting Lisa in this kind of adversarial role with Bart and viewers clearly have little tolerance for it.

For a season 32 Jean episode (and especially one written by Westbrook), this isn't awful by any means and I think its heart is in the right place. The West Side Story musical is wasted airtime and the episode could have benefited from one or two scenes set in the classroom with Ned as teacher, but otherwise it's relatively competent, evoking some mild laughs and emotion for me. The montage at the end is, of course, beautiful as well. 3.5/5
 
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