Are there any Classic Era Episodes you feel like don't get enough love?

stryke said:
Personally I can only view it as an unfortunate product of the time where the only way it seemed there was to big up women was to put down men as basically stupid overgrown children. What makes it kinda sad is that 9.9 times out of 10 the people writing that were men cause they, in their clumsy mid to late 90's way, thought that was how to be progressive. Well there was a cynical edge to it too as that was what sold. At the time you saw a bunch of bumbling idiot men messes up yet again, as the wise totally together women rolls their eyes at them in advertising.
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Well that's because men are stupid overgrown children and women are just smarter and better in every way.

Joking! Please don't hate me men of the NHC! I know that's not true in any way and is a problematic stereotype which doesn't help either men or women, but I just don't think it's really at play in Lisa the Simpson. I don't know, maybe I just wouldn't see it like you do because I do love the episode, but I just see a fairly brief silly joke at the end of the episode and I take the bit where Bart's alright with being a "spectacular failure" as playing into how he's often just impulsive and doesn't really think through where his actions are gonna land him in the future more than anything else.

stryke said:
Does mean mentally deleting everything said by Doctor Simpson though. She said it, it's in the episode, and that's how the episode is resolved. Sure if you want to have your own personal non-problematic edited version, then hey more power to you if the result is something that you love. It's just an episode of an animated show. It ultimately doesn't matter that much.
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I really don't think it does mean that though. She said it yes, but that doesn't mean that it's true nor even that she believes it herself. The episode is resolved with Lisa feeling better and the weight of evidence across the series shows that Simpsons gene can't be real (Homer's many successes, Uncie Herb, Grampa's coming across as a competent army sergeant in Flying Hellfish) so the only conclusion I can draw is that it's a load of hooey they let Lisa keep believing in to make her feel better in that moment. I really don't feel like I'm editing anything by making that conclusion. (You are right that it ultimately doesn't matter that much though :P )
 
I think a lot of people are reading way too hard into the "Simpson gene" thing. I mean, I personally think it was kind of obvious we weren't to take it at that much face value or even interpret it all too seriously (in a way that completely rewrites and ruins canon or lore). Still, I get why some take it less with a grain of salt and more with a grain of truth. It's obviously a divisive episode these days for a reason.
 
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Either way, I personally don't like how Lisa acts in this episode. At the end she gets happy again when she learns she's not doomed to become a dumbass like her father and brother, and that's how she reconciles with the former. Oof.

Again, I see what they were going for, I certainly admire the metatextual interpretation and all, but in terms of pure character writing, it doesn't do much for me.
 
Wile E. the Brain said:
Either way, I personally don't like how Lisa acts in this episode. At the end she gets happy again when she learns she's not doomed to become a dumbass like her father and brother, and that's how she reconciles with the former. Oof.
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Aww maybe I'm just too mushy hearted but I absolutely love this little moment.
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It's just sweet and adorable and makes my heart melt every time. A real highlight for me! I dunno, I genuinely do understand where the criticism for Lisa the Simpson comes from, but it's one of the episodes closest to my heart and it's been such a big favourite for me for such a long time that I just can't see it negatively at all.
 
I Love Lisa said:
I dunno, I genuinely do understand where the criticism for Lisa the Simpson comes from, but it's one of the episodes closest to my heart and it's been such a big favourite for me for such a long time that I just can't see it negatively at all.
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I'm glad you do, honestly ! Because I don't like something doesn't mean I'm opposite to people enjoying it, of course. :)
 
Wile E. the Brain said:
I'm glad you do, honestly ! Because I don't like something doesn't mean I'm opposite to people enjoying it, of course. :)
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Oh yeah and vice versa too! There's no problem at all if someone doesn't like something I do enjoy. Sometimes something just clicks for some people and not others and that's totally fine. :)
 
Sandboy said:
Not to start a debate, but I feel like people's problem with Lisa the Simpson and the Simpson gene thing is that it's terribly a reduction of the characters' struggles (Bart and Homer for example). Is it a good episode? Yes, yes it is, I don't think it's great but it is fascinating to unpack. But I definitely wouldn't take it entirely as a statement from the characters' text, because in any case the thesis is a bit contradictory—forgetting that in that same season we have Lisa's Sax, who showed why Bart is the way he is and why he came to become the naughty boy we all know. And in the case of Homer, well... It's even sillier considering that in any case it was Abe who crushed Homer's potential early on ("Quit your daydreaming, melonhead").

Anyway, speaking of that particular quote; Grampa vs. Sexual Inadequacy which is the best study of father-son relationships, along with the best story (and use) of the Homer-Abe duo in the series for me. Also Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield is my favorite Marge story of the entire series and I will always shout it from the rooftops.
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To be fair, "Lisa's Sax" was produced by Al Jean & Mike Reiss, and it was held over from season seven. It doesn't even feel like a season nine episode, unlike "Simpson Tide" (whoever made the decision to hold it over for two years is a genius).

Oakley & Weinstein always had their own interpretation of the show and its characters, which clashes with the interpretation of the other showrunners. After season four, you're getting wildly different tones depending on who's in charge, and seasons 3-4 already feel like a shift from the first two seasons.
 
No one ever mentions Bart's Dog Gets An F as a favorite but I think it was funny (Homer's brain ordering him to buy the assassin's sneakers) and sweet (Homer buying teen magazines for a sick Lisa, Marge's family quilt, Bart truly caring about Santa's Little Helper.) The dog trainer is a bitchy easy to hate character but I thought she was necessary for the plot. I know some people don't like that kind of smug character (the bob's burgers chalk lady is massively disliked for instance, but like the dog trainer there's not much story without her as an obstacle.)
 
I Love Lisa said:
I dunno, I genuinely do understand where the criticism for Lisa the Simpson comes from, but it's one of the episodes closest to my heart and it's been such a big favourite for me for such a long time that I just can't see it negatively at all.
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'Lisa The Simpson' is not one of my favorites, but I'd say one of those episodes where the good outweigh the bad by far. Scenes like that example (Lisa being happy to be a Simpson) was one of those good moments that make the episode click pretty well (and as I hinted to, I didn't take the Simpson gene so seriously at all). That and there's the hilarious & totally unrelated "Frostilicus" subplot :lol:
 
MisogiKurakawa said:
Lisa The Simpson also gets points for one of the most clever reference jokes in the franchise.

(For those who don't get it, Yertle the Turtle is an allegory for the rise of fascism)
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That's great. It's just like Oakley & Weinstein to work in those kind of clever referential "nerd" jokes and it usually paid off.

How I miss them and their style.
 
I Love Lisa said:
Aww maybe I'm just too mushy hearted but I absolutely love this little moment.
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It's just sweet and adorable and makes my heart melt every time. A real highlight for me! I dunno, I genuinely do understand where the criticism for Lisa the Simpson comes from, but it's one of the episodes closest to my heart and it's been such a big favourite for me for such a long time that I just can't see it negatively at all.
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Yeah I agree it’s a really heartwarming ending and a great episode in general
 
MisogiKurakawa said:
Lisa The Simpson also gets points for one of the most clever reference jokes in the franchise.

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(For those who don't get it, Yertle the Turtle is an allegory for the rise of fascism)
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Ha ha I was totally unaware of that. I just thought it was possibly the best book ever written on the subject of turtle stacking.
 
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