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  1. #211


    because generally it was just an unentertaining episode. sure, you've got a good laugh here and there, but it was overall rather bland with some predictable jokes and a bunch of stuff that was just dumb.

    the whole first act with the rocket stuff had so little to do with anything, it feels like your wasting seven minutes just to see explosion after explosion and some creepy eyebrow jokes no one really gives a shit about. maybe in the entire thing there is, what, two jokes or something that don't require you to suffer add or some eyebrow fetish?

    act two is where most the good moments of the episode are to be had, but generally it's still rather weak. some jokes could've really worked, but were either fleshed out too much (stuff like the last supper photos). the longer the scene is at the bastardised church, the more it drags on and pushes the envelop. yeah, you might get shits and giggles from seeing stuff like a change deposit at first, but when it keeps hammering how commercialised the place is to the ground, and you see there is a stamp guy, you really don't know whether to laugh out of pity or complain about it.

    my main problem with the episode is after lisa leaves the church there is an array of bad parenting and such. fine, they can feel free to have marge and homer want lisa to become a christian again, but spying on her prayers and putting an angel on her bowie tree is taking it a bit far. tricking her into thinking she had a pony was very lame, too. and the fact the dragged the joke on at the end with lisa questioned marge about it was just boring. we get the fucking joke, she doesn't have a pony, you don't need to have two characters walk down an endless hallway bantering on and on about it, repeating the same type of comeback of trying to change the subject. oh, and one of my least favourite moments in the history of the show is in this episode:
    "butter up that bacon, boy."

    had the third act received a little cleaning up, and the first act was compiled with stuff besides explosions, the episode could have been much better.

    i think i gave the episode a c+ or b-. i don't know, 'cause no one really gives two shits about my opinion. i'm just on a simpsons message board so i feel more attractive..
    Last edited by Butters; 11-14-2005 at 01:59 PM.

  2. #212
    grappling with local oaf Postmaster's Avatar
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    I liked when Channel Surfer compared this to father son and holy guest, pointing out their basically the exact opposite in where they succeed and fail yet they ultimatley turn out to be equally enjoyable as one another.

  3. #213
    VICTORYYYY Creamium's Avatar
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    I posted it in another thread, but figured it might fit better here.

    I'm probably the only one who likes the Great Money Caper. Watched it again recently and I couldn't help but laughing at a lot of the jokes, realizing most of them are zany and stupid. As a fan you know everything that's wrong with the episode character and story-wise, but on second or third viewings I tend to let go of that and just see what happens. Enjoying wacky humor of the Scully era is like flipping a coin for me, in some instances I like it (e.g this episode), another time I find it dull (KTAAR). The ending sure is random, but it isn't the first time the writers didn't know to how end an episode. Burns, Baby Burns is the first one that comes to mind. We've seen a winking fish before too, but here I found the closing shot of the winking sturgeon actually funny because it was such a 'screw you' to everything the show had been years before, after a rollercoaster of nonsense.

    Don't you guys have this sometimes? When you feel you should hate an episode because it is flawed in so many ways, but you can't help but laughing at some instances? I for one find blandness and lazy use of guest-stars (Tennis the Menace and Regina Monologues) occasionally more irritating than Scully-wackiness.

  4. #214


    I have to agree with that. Al Jean still has (or had) many annoyances (like the guest stars) and bland humor that Scully at least didn't seem to have.

  5. #215
    formerly Keyser Soze Imperciph's Avatar
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    Since my thread was wasted,

    I am posting it here so I can hear your thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperciph in a failed thread
    I want to talk about how stylistically Mirkin satires differ from the rest of the classic Era.

    I first watched Two Cars and Sideshow Bob Roberts back-to-back as both are political satires. Then I came to this conclusion.

    The satires David Mirkin produced are mostly gag-driven rather than character driven. In Two Cars almost all the political satire is done through the character of Mr. Burns and how he interacts with the genral public.The wit of that episode is completely unassuming on its self, with you beginning to appreciate and understand more and more on rewatches. Comparatively, Sideshow Bob Roberts just explodes with hilarious exaggarations (a ghoul in the Republican party), great gags (both Quimby and Bob's commercials) and references to past events (such as the debate between Quimby and Bob being reminiscent of Nixon and Kennedy debates). It also requires a rewatch but mainly due to the reason that you get all allusions and references. Two Cars is carried by Burns himself, wherears Sideshow Bob Roberts relies more on gags and allusions.

    On the other hand, compare religious satires such as Homer The Heretic and Bart Sells His Soul. Both have their own showrunners' touches such as cutaway gags in Homer The Heretic (a trademark of Jean and Reiss) and dark surrealism (an Oakley and Weinstein trademark). But, almost all the philosophical exploration is done with the characters of Homer and and Bart respectively.

    My point is that, not only did Mirkin introduce flexible reality and greater reliance on gags during his tenure, but he also changed the approach of satirical topics too with the satire being derived from hilarious tv parodies, gags and references to past events.

    Agree/disagree? Feel free to add your comments.
    It's a bit like having sex with a jellyfish: once might an interesting experiment, twice would be perversion!
    after I told him my name, he beat seven shades out of me and left me in a dumpster with a bar of soap shoved in my mouth and a brush shoved in where the sun doesn't shine

  6. #216


    Cookie Jar in Kitchen

    I am hoping someone can help solve an arguement for me.
    Is there a cookie jar in the simpsons kitchen shaped as something.
    I have seen a chook in the corner of the kitchen but i didnt think this was a cookie jar.

    Can someone please help!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #217
    Hired Goon Adam R's Avatar
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    Hey Imperciph, it was a good idea for a thread, I was going to post but I didn't have much ideas for what to post about.

  8. #218
    formerly Keyser Soze Imperciph's Avatar
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    Thumbs Down

    I just watched "Lastest Gun In The West" and I am surprised and disappointed to say that it replaces "Homer The Moe" as my worst of season 13. What the hell was up with the first act with Bart being chased by a dog? What am I supposed to laugh at in this episode?
    Last edited by Imperciph; 11-20-2005 at 07:49 AM.

  9. #219
    VICTORYYYY Creamium's Avatar
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    I agree. It's an extremely boring episode, with one of the weakest first acts ever, if not the weakest. The following acts were all really weak too, I've seen the episode three times now and I don't remember a single good joke.

  10. #220
    :gatorpee: jim's Avatar
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    Have any of you noticed how Homer is drawn differently in season 5? He has bigger eyes and pupils, and his head seems bigger.
    :gatorpee:

  11. #221
    formerly Keyser Soze Imperciph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collision Course
    Have any of you noticed how Homer is drawn differently in season 5? He has bigger eyes and pupils, and his head seems bigger.
    Almost all characters in season 5 are drawn with bigger eyes and pupils. And Lisa's spikes look as if they can literally deflate a basketball (like in Lisa on Ice). Many season 5 episodes (especially Homer Goes To College and to some degree, $pringfield) has mediocre animation when compared to rest of the classic Era. On the other hand, David Silverman makes THOH IV, IMO,one of the best animated episodes ever. I was completely blown by the direction of that episode.

    Sometimes, too much rewriting is reflected on the animation as animators put less effort because all their previous work is often wasted. If any of you want to learn more about the process of animation on the Simpsons, I suggest all of you view Contact a former Simpsons' animator/director if you haven't already. Its a great read.

  12. #222
    is happily losing sanity tired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperciph
    I just watched "Lastest Gun In The West" and I am surprised and disappointed to say that it replaces "Homer The Moe" as my worst of season 13. What the hell was up with the first act with Bart being chased by a dog? What am I supposed to laugh at in this episode?
    How crappy it is, perhaps?

    I mean, now that I think about it, the whole idea of the episode just doesn't seem to make sense. And if the original idea doesn't work, how can you expect the episode to be any good (other then at best the odd funny moment)?

    Also, I think that it's what seems to be in common with many of the episodes that people on this board generally hate (Simpson Safari being one example clear in my mind right now)...when I look back at an episode like that, the main plot ideas are simply so boring or idiotic or they have some other major flaw, that the episode reflects that flaw in the final product.
    I am not responsible for any brain cells lost due to the reading of my posts.

  13. #223
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    Right, I am considering starting another thread on the Voting Booth on the best character study in the Mirkin era. Some significant examples I can think of are:

    Rosebud
    Bart's Inner Child
    Last Temptation of Homer
    Homer and Apu
    (Homer loves Flanders?)
    Sweet Seymour Skinner's Baadassss Song
    Lady Bouvier's Lover
    Secrets of a Successful Marriage

    Lisa's Rival
    Bart's Girlfriend
    Lisa on Ice
    Grampa vs Sexual Inadequacy
    (Fear of Flying?)
    And Maggie Makes Three
    Homer vs Patty and Selma
    Lisa's Wedding (although I might omit that because everyone's going to vote for that)
    'Round Springfield
    Lemon of Troy

    If there is anything in that list that you disagree with or needs to be added, please feel free to tell me...

  14. #224
    formerly Keyser Soze Imperciph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAMHOMER
    Right, I am considering starting another thread on the Voting Booth on the best character study in the Mirkin era.
    Good idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by IAMHOMER

    (Fear of Flying?)
    Lemon of Troy
    I am not too sure of these two. Fear of Flying is often brought up as a "bad classic era" episode and not many think its a character study of Marge. Even if it was intended to be, her being ashamed of her father as a childhood trauma is immidiately marginalised by a flashback of her being attacked "North By North West" style. You can put it, but I doubt anyone will vote for it.

    And Lemon Of Troy isn't that much of a character study: its more of an episode to showcase the kids of Springfield and give us a tour of Shelbyville. Also, as it is a very popular episode, putting it will jeopardise the chances of true character studies such as Secrets Of A Successful Marriage.


    Quote Originally Posted by IAMHOMER
    Lisa's Wedding (although I might omit that because everyone's going to vote for that)
    Actually it IS the best character study of the Mirkin Era. Lisa finally figures out what her family and especially Homer means to her. Also Homer finally tells Lisa how he truly feels about her. And the ending is just very poignant. If you put it, it'll earn a well-deserved victory.

    If you don't ,I'll probably vote for Rosebud or Bart's Girlfriend. Rosebud features Burns at his finest: we see both his tyrannical "Citizen Kane"-esque characterisation but it also gives us a truly good insight on to his more tender side.

    Bart's Girlfriend is also a great character study: it successfully captures both Bart's mischievous and naive side and shows unlike the average bland 10 year old attention-seeking heel-raiser, there is far more depth to Bart.It is also a great, innovative spin on the premise of young love.

  15. #225
    Stonecutter Veryjammy's Avatar
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    ^ I agree, although looking at this list makes me realise how few in-depth character studies Mirkin did. I would also exclude Homer Vs Patty and Selma and And Maggie Makes Three. And possibly Lisa On Ice. I dunno, I just don't consider them as looking closely at a character(s).

  16. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperciph
    Actually it IS the best character study of the Mirkin Era. Lisa finally figures out what her family and especially Homer means to her. Also Homer finally tells Lisa how he truly feels about her. And the ending is just very poignant. If you put it, it'll earn a well-deserved victory.
    Yes but that's the whole point. By leaving out Lisa's Wedding, masterly though it is, I just want to make this poll a little less predictable. I just have a feeling that if I include it, it will get unanimously voted for to the exclusion of all others in my list, some of which deserve near if not equal recognition (Rosebud, Lisa's Rival, Bart's Girlfriend are good examples).

    And anyway it's just a little poll, it's not like a tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veryjammy
    ^ I agree, although looking at this list makes me realise how few in-depth character studies Mirkin did. I would also exclude Homer Vs Patty and Selma and And Maggie Makes Three. And possibly Lisa On Ice. I dunno, I just don't consider them as looking closely at a character(s).
    Season 6 did a better job in characterization IMO, especially in exploring in depth Bart and Lisa's relationship.
    Last edited by IAMHOMER; 11-21-2005 at 08:50 AM.

  17. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAMHOMER
    Bart's Inner Child
    Homer and Apu
    Little more than gag-episodes, good though they are.

    (Homer loves Flanders?)
    Yup, would include it.

    Lady Bouvier's Lover
    Eh, it's a good episode but I don't really think it's a character study.

    Lemon of Troy
    Same here.

    (Fear of Flying?)
    Will most likely lose, but I'd include it anyway.

  18. #228
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    Is anyone else getting annoyed about the high amount of holdovers?

    Yes I know it's nitpicky, but the amount of holdovers is getting silly

    5 is okay then 6 and now 7!

    I mean, this is about 1/3rd of the Season being holdovers, what's the point of starting a new Season if you a whole bunch of last Seasons to finish.

    I hope this is cut down by a 23 episode Season, this Season.

  19. #229
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    Hopefully it'll be a 24 episode season, because they still have a backlog of holdovers left from keeping Midnight Rx until Season 16. They never intended The Girl Who Slept Too Little to air in Season 17, though, so it should certainly be a 23 episode season at the very least. Either that, or have a jumbo-sized final season!

  20. #230
    grappling with local oaf Postmaster's Avatar
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    As I've said before they could try and build up a mini season out of holdovers, probably even a seperate DVD release if it's entirley up to fox.

  21. #231
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    After watching Fear of Flying the other day, I decided I won't include it. It doesn't delve into Marge's character at all, at least not the Marge we know from previous episodes.

  22. #232
    I'm not your friend-o Cartoonnetwork's Avatar
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    I have wathed Lisa's Rival for the first time (now I think I finally have watched all the classics). Comments: Sugar subplot was really weird, I guess nobody would have liked that in Season 11. I don't know if I liked it much or not, I mean it was good, gags were funny: the english man, the bee guys and Homer's speech was brilliant but the plot itself was quite silly (and the scene with Homer trying to sell Skinner some sugar was a little random).

    Drawings were also weird in some moments of this one. Homer during the speech wasn't so greatly done as they seem to point out in the audiocommentary. I totally defend off-model poses, but they have to be well drawed. Here the poses were probably very well in planification but it seems like the final drawings are extremely off and rude.

    I liked Lisa's story. But anyway, when I watch these classics I haven't watched before the whole watching the past with rose-tinted glasses thing comes to mind. Maybe Lisa's Rival and The Old Man And The Lisa weren't as good as other classic era episodes but watching them now I don't find them astonishingly better than (some) new material ( I rewatched Sleeping with The Enemy and All Is Fair in Oven War the other day and they were both as good or better than I remembered). Of course gags like the ones in Goo Goo Gai Pan were impossible to imagine back then.

    Incidentally I do think Homer And Apu is really kind of a character study of Apu, though it doesn't seem sometimes. I disagree with User 1.0 about that one.

    And I rewatched Lisa On Ice and screw all you people who complain about it, it was a great episode, perhaps not a great character study but I don't mind Homer at all. I mean, look at A Star Is Burns, Homer Loves Flanders or even to an extent the subplot of Lisa's Rival I have told you about, Burns' Heir or Boy Scoutz N' The Hood, among others, and tell me if Homer is not equal or better in LOI than in a great bunch of episodes of this period. It's not that I totally disagree with those point but I haven't got a great deal with Homer in this episode before I joined here and rewatching it I still think there are not great problems with him.

  23. #233
    :gatorpee: jim's Avatar
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    I just watched "And Maggie Makes Three" again, and (even though it's pretty stupid) I have noticed a mistake. When Homer explains he ripped out his hair and ran upstairs like a girl when he found out Marge was pregnent with Maggie, Marge says that he did the same when he found out Marge was pregnent with Lisa, and as Homer runs upstairs, there is a photo in a frame on the wall, the picture is Lisa. Not very interesting, I just wanted to point it out.

  24. #234
    juice with the people prince jafar allah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartoonnetwork
    I mean, look at A Star Is Burns, Homer Loves Flanders or even to an extent the subplot of Lisa's Rival I have told you about, Burns' Heir or Boy Scoutz N' The Hood, among others, and tell me if Homer is not equal or better in LOI than in a great bunch of episodes of this period.
    i think most people who would criticise homer's characterisation in lisa on ice would also criticise those episodes too. i certainly would, apart from lisa's rival. and on that note, i think if season 10-12 didn't exist, noone would find a problem with homer's characterisation there, whereas they certainly would (and did, at the time) for those other episodes. it just suffers from being very reminiscent of the "zany scheme" captain wacky stuff of seasons 10-12 in its story and approach to humor. but there's nothing actually wrong with homer's behaviour in it; he's not overly obnoxious or angry or in-your-face or inconsiderate, and though his speech and general insanity are quite zany, he's not really more out of it than in his "i like stories." season 4 characterisations.
    Last edited by prince jafar allah; 11-22-2005 at 02:05 PM.

  25. #235
    VICTORYYYY Creamium's Avatar
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    I always liked the sugar-subplot. Zany, but still filled with funny stuff. A good example of that is Homer's comeback to Marge. He's in the middle of an incredibly farfetched and dumb scheme, which is then contrasted by this witty monologue. I always like it when they make action the opposite of speech.

  26. #236
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    I was just thinking, is Homer Bad Man the most universally loved episode in the history of the series? I haven't heard a bad or even average word said against it. Most of the other established classics have at least one or two detractors or people who say "Meh. It's overrated". I think only Homer the Heretic comes close in that respect (Last Exit to Springfield has probably had more lukewarm 'overrated' comments, at least on this site).

  27. #237
    I'm not your friend-o Cartoonnetwork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammed Jafar
    i think most people who would criticise homer's characterisation in lisa on ice would also criticise those episodes too. i certainly would, apart from lisa's rival. and on that note, i think if season 10-12 didn't exist, noone would find a problem with homer's characterisation there, whereas they certainly would (and did, at the time) for those other episodes. it just suffers from being very reminiscent of the "zany scheme" captain wacky stuff of seasons 10-12 in its story and approach to humor. but there's nothing actually wrong with homer's behaviour in it; he's not overly obnoxious or angry or in-your-face or inconsiderate, and though his speech and general insanity are quite zany, he's not really more out of it than in his "i like stories." season 4 characterisations.
    When you are right, yu are right. Homer himself is not bad in that subplot, the subplot itself is not bad, but it's very odd and I wasn't expecting zany things like the english man appearance in an episode from this period, I didn't dislike it...I just don't have a particular opinion yet, I just find it funny but in a different way, it do seem more surreal than the regular Simpsons. But I still think Homer was 98,5% ok in Lisa On Ice and I have more problems with him in the other episodes I mentioned.

  28. #238
    Don't Look At Me!! Gibbles's Avatar
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    Heres a random though.

    Is anyone else getting sick of reading the word "mediocrity" on No Homers?
    I mean no offense I'm just curious if I'm alone.

  29. #239


    Ha. Yeah.

  30. #240
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    Apart from Galalimit's thread, what specific examples can you think of?



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