The General Discussion Lounge

[Snack Related Mishap]

I don't think 5 is better than 6, but I ddefinately think it is underrated. Liek you said, not every episode has to have emotional depth, it can just be a fun episode to watch. In fact, I love last Temptation, I found, surprisingly, it beats out Colonel Homer(#11 out of my top ten) and makes it in around number 4 I think on my top 25. I don't mean any offense to Matt Groening, but I just feel it is a slightly better episode(though almost all, if not all, the episodes in my top 25 are A+'s, so they are still really close)

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

[BloodE]

I think Season 5 is a great season, it just has alot to live up to considering it successes 4.
Season 6 is a fantastic season, however that may be because I haven't seen the episodes IN SO DAMN LONG. I plan on picking up the DVD next week.

[Imperciph]

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

You are not alone on this, my friend. This episode always creates a lump in my throat. Just like Homer's Triple Bypass, even though I know Homer is not going to die, I feel very sorry for him. And the ending is the icing on the cake, too. Homer bonds with Abe, gives advice to his son, encourages Lisa when he knows he is going to die soon.These scenes are some of the best of the series. But when he realises he'll live, he just sits in front of TV, munching snacks. The writers make the cynical observation :What are doing with our precious lives anyway?

[Postmaster]

I actually don't find blowfish that moving it seems to veer between over doing the schmaltz or undermining it.
Still a great episode though.

[jim]

I think "A Star is torn" tries to be schmaltzy but I don't hink it will live up to "Simpsons and Delilah", "When Flanders Failed" or "One fish two fish etc in schmaltzyness.

[Handsome Peter]

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

I have done it. The closest I've come to crying while watching a Simpsons episode is after Homer says his goodbyes to his children.

[Snack Related Mishap]

Hey, this doesn't deserve it's own thread so:

I was just wondering about a controversial joke from Homie the Klown. The joke is the Hamburgler comes along, Homer sees him, and thinks he is a real burgler trying to steal the burlger. Then he starts beating the guy without mercy.

What do you guys think of that joke? I personally like it. It surprises me I do like considering I usually find these scenes incredibly stupid to be funny, but when I first saw this scene, I could not stop laughing. I think what makes it for me is he kid crying, "Oh God, stop, he's already dead!" I know, I am a sick twisted individual, but it makes me laugh really hard. i think something else that makes it funny, is just the fact that Homer is stupid enough to think the guys is really there to steal burgers. Anyway, again, what do you guys think?

[Postmaster]

I loved the joke at first but now this place kind of ruined it for me.

[Veryjammy]

That's the best moment of the episode. I never even realised it was 'controversial' until I heard some of the oversensitive nitpickers on here moan about it.

[Simpsons Forever!]

Personally, I think it's hilarious, but I can see why it's so controversial. Is there any mention of it on the commentary for Homie The Clown?

[Imperciph]

What are your opinions on "Deep Space Homer" and its impact on the evolution of The Simpsons as a series?

It certainly provided a leap from the down-to-earth grounds of the Groening-Simon-Brooks years and even Jean-Reiss years. It may even be the first of many wacky Homer adventures which will plague the later years of the show. And let's face it, Homer's character is not perfect either. His stupidity is certainly exaggarated (his efforts to read the writing on his head and "I'll your bash your head")

However, I feel this was the episode that defined the "Mirkin" style of the show. The storyline of this episode is very tight. I just love the fact in the end the inanimate carbon rod returns once again to claim Homer's glory; that tangent in the first act was not just a one-off gag. And it really does a good job of satirising of institutions picking out "average joes" and make them into "heroes" as a publicity stunt. And the mocking of "Home Improvement" and other sitcoms had me laughing for several minutes.

[Thats A Paddlin]

To the Hamburglar joke: Definitly one of my favorite moments in the episode. But I have a twisted sense of humor and I would've liked it better if the midget actually had been killed.

To Deep Space Homer: It was the first real episode where the writers seem to say "Who cares if its unbelievable, its funny!"

[BloodE]

Deep Space Homer is a memorable episode, possibly the writers insighted that if they did something unbelievable suddenly they could garner popularity, if they did it right - which they did.

[Veryjammy]

Aren't we all forgetting Marge Vs Monorail? Squirrels shooting laser beams? Trees with tentacles? Everything concerning the monorail?

Oh and the lift to nowhere? And the giant magnifying glass and popsicle tower?

[Thats A Paddlin]

Marge Vs. The Monorail was pretty out there in terms of the story. But not like Deep Space Homer, IMO.

[Veryjammy]

Marge Vs. The Monorail was pretty out there in terms of the story. But not like Deep Space Homer, IMO.

Not really. As far as I'm aware they have sent normal people into space. The biggest unrealistic point is the door opening and then shutting it with the carbon rod, but it's no more unrealistic than the anchor being caught in the donut. It's just that the setting makes it appear wackier. I think there's considerably more wackiness overall in Marge Vs Monorail

[Thats A Paddlin]

Im starting to see your point, I'll retract my statement and say that the two episodes are equally whacky.

[Simpsons Forever!]

I think Deep Space Homer was the point at which the writers realised the flexibility of The Simpsons and its potential to last for years on TV - which they took advantage of in this episode. They also broke the ice, opening the way for many other wacky, but funny, plots since then. This was also the moment The Simpsons accepted it was a cartoon and stopped trying to imitate real-life sitcoms so much, leading to its golden age.

[Veryjammy]

I think Deep Space Homer was the point at which the writers realised the flexibility of The Simpsons and its potential to last for years on TV - which they took advantage of in this episode. They also broke the ice, opening the way for many other wacky, but funny, plots since then. This was also the moment The Simpsons accepted it was a cartoon and stopped trying to imitate real-life sitcoms so much, leading to its golden age.

No no no, what could be more flexible than radioactive squirrels and trees and runaway monorails and giant magnifying glasses and a vanishing Leonard Nemoy and escalators to nowhere and anchors ripping siamese twins in two. The more I think about it the more convinced I am Marge Vs Monorail was definetely the major turning point.

[Postmaster]

Well in this thread I completley agree with you VJ.
And in fact Deep Space Homer made more effort to ground the episode emotionally developing homer's fear and giving him a proper motivation.
Monorail was just a bunch of very wacky stuff that happend.

[jim]

Who watches Sipmsons on fox? I'm starting to see fox more than channel 4. There's a larger range of episodes.

[Nameless]

Who watches Sipmsons on fox? I'm starting to see fox more than channel 4. There's a larger range of episodes.

err, you live in the UK. are you talking about sky?

[Imperciph]

No no no, what could be more flexible than radioactive squirrels and trees and runaway monorails and giant magnifying glasses and a vanishing Leonard Nemoy and escalators to nowhere and anchors ripping siamese twins in two. The more I think about it the more convinced I am Marge Vs Monorail was definetely the major turning point.

Yeah I agree with you completely.But in terms of of-the-wall wackiness I believe the true start was Homer at the Bat.8 guest stars, each falling into increasingly surreal accidents within a short period of time.

And Deep Space Homer was very,very tightly focussed. Every plot element introduced in the opening scene at SNPP :the love for the inanimate carbon rod, Homer's trying to gain respect of everyone was touched upon in the climax. On the other hand, Marge vs. The Monorail starts with Homer as Fred and ends with the escelator of nowhere.

So you guys are concluding that instead of Deep Space Homer, Marge vs. the Monorail was more of a definitive point of The Simpsons' "evolution" or "decline". Fine with me.

[Jims]

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

That's creepy. I just popped in Season Two and watched this one today, along with Bart vs. Thankgiving. I'd have to agree that the episode does hit a very emotional note toward the end of the episode as Homer sits in the evening chair, awaiting the morning. It kind of feels like "the last episode of The Simpsons" in a weird way, even though it clearly wasn't.

As for the moment the Simpsons jumped into wackiness, I would have to agree on "Marge vs. The Monorail." It has a lot of goofy, wacky parts, like the Escalator to Nowhere. "Homer at the Bat" was also pretty silly though. Although Steve Sax's arrest was pretty realistic I guess, considering the police force in Springfield.

[Veryjammy]

Btw I certainly don't consider Marge Vs Monorail the start of the decline, just the start of something different. I'd kill for an episode nowadays that showed the creativity and inventiveness of the gags in that show. I think Jean has almost pulled the show too far in the opposite direction in fact, it often reminds me of the mundanity of some of the lesser Season 8 episodes.

[Postmaster]

I'm starting to think some writers may have developed old man syndrome,
a lot of writers, musicans, artists etc seem to do their best work earlier in life before settling down, getting married and having kids etc, maybe that's had an effect on some of the writers because the show's often very gentle today, season 8 had some mundane episodes I'll admit but it still had a darkness and edge to it that's lacking today.
Satrically there's not enough anger today. From the commentaries you get a sense from Mirkin and also George Meyer even O+W that their really quite pissed off about some of these issues, but "something about marrying" for example was probably was too even handed and as well as the satire being lost in a wacky homer scheme and soap opera story line.
Although on the opposite end of the spectrum BMB and Hail Mary Pass were too heavy handed so I guess I don't know what to think.

[IAMHOMER]

Slightly old, but I found this interesting review of the 5th season DVD from amazon.com:

The Simpsons - The Complete Fifth Season DVD ~ Dan Castellaneta

Price: $37.49

Availability: Usually ships in 24 hours

32 used from $23.47


12 of 25 people found the following review helpful:

(3 stars) The decline of "The Simpsons" begins..., February 1, 2005
Considering that most of these sets offer the same kinds of extras, the rating has to reflect the quality of the episodes themselves.

And, unfortunately, after reaching new heights of excellence with "Marge vs. the Monorail" and "A Streetcar Named Marge" in season 4 and peaking with arguably the most intellectually hilarious 30 seconds in television history ("Worker and Parasite" in "Krusty gets Kancelled"), the first signs of what has become a long, slow decline of "The Simpsons" begins in Season 5.

This isn't to say there weren't some misses in previous seasons, but even the less-than-stellar episodes generated at least a few laughs. And this isn't to say that "The Simpsons" has jumped the shark (although it has come close at times); even its worst episodes are better than nearly all of the other "Raymonds," "Jims" and "Joeys" that pass for TV comedy today combined.

But what even the most rabid Simpsons fan has to admit is that Season 5 is the first season where episodes that are truly unfunny from beginning to end appear. "Marge on the Lam" is a monotonous take on "Thelma and Louise" that goes absolutely nowhere. "Bart Gets an Elephant" is a one-joke piece that begins a seemingly endless series of "funny pet" episodes that appear with distressing predictability in future seasons. "Bart Gets Famous" is quite possibly the worse episode ever--a totally unfunny exercise in self-absorption that blooms into the endless series of reflexive Fox jokes in season 6. "Homes Goes to College" begins a terrible trend of Homer-as-frat-boy plots, and "Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy" maligns little Lisa with a plot unworthy of her intelligence.

Season 5 also begins the regrettable tendency to replace genuine laughs from witty writing and situations with cheap laughs from cutaway visual gags and one-liners. It's a shopworn practice as old as cartoons themselves, and one that The Simpsons managed to largely resist until Season 5, where it became a patented fall-back mechanism and remains so today.

Most distressing is the total transformation of Homer from a slow yet caring father-cum-working class hero into a completely one-dimensional neanderthal. Whether this was a directive from Fox or a conscious decision by Groenig and co., it started the series on a long downward slide into predictability and shameless pandering to contemporary music and MTV culture.

So what earns this collection its 3 stars? The few stellar episodes like "Cape Feare," "Deep Space Homer," "Homer and Apu" and "The Devil and Ned Flanders" vignette from "Treehouse of Horror." None of these episodes matches the sheer combination of wit and scathing satire as the pantheon episodes, but they at least are funny. That can't be said for the clunkers in season 5, nearly all of season 6, and, these days, at least 50% of all episodes from season 5 on. If you haven't seen these episodes, the collection is worth it (although seasons 1-4 truly comprise the Golden Age of the series) for the diamonds in the rough. For those who have seen it, it's the last "must have" Simpsons collection; everything from this point forward is for diehard fans only.


Does anyone here know people who share a similar view - ie that season 5 was not just a dip in quality (albeit still a great season) before recovering to the masterly level of seasons 2-4 in 6 and 7 - but a fundamental decline from which the show has never recovered and continues to do this day??

Personally I think a lot of his comments are nonsense - if I can be bothered I might elaborate later - but he's expressing an opinion and doesn't expect everyone to agree with it. It's interesting though that quite a few people on the "Jump the Shark" site have expressed similar sentiments regarding the point at which the show lost the plot, some dating the defining point even as far back as the Monorail episode.

But if you look at the history of the show from a rational and objective perspective, and people say that its standards already began to slip as early as 1993/94 and have carried on slipping to this day, then logically how did it manage to remain on air for more than another decade and still attract more than 10 million viewers week after week?

[Thats A Paddlin]

I'm starting to think some writers may have developed old man syndrome,
a lot of writers, musicans, artists etc seem to do their best work earlier in life before settling down, getting married and having kids etc, maybe that's had an effect on some of the writers because the show's often very gentle today, season 8 had some mundane episodes I'll admit but it still had a darkness and edge to it that's lacking today.

Agreed, the Strangelove-esque dark sense of satire seems to be a distant memory today.

Does anyone here know people who share a similar view - ie that season 5 was not just a dip in quality (albeit still a great season) before recovering to the masterly level of seasons 2-4 in 6 and 7 - but a fundamental decline from which the show has never recovered and continues to do this day??

I disagree completly, Season 5 was a key link in the masterpiece chain of Seasons 2-8, IMO.

[Train on the Water]

This is off-topic from what you guys are saying, but...

It probably will be beeped, like that scene in an older episode where Homer was swearing at the ambulance.

All those bleeps were the joke; it wasn't like South Park where they talk like that and it's not a joke. I'm sure Dan didn't actually record swear words.

[IAMHOMER]

I disagree completly, Season 5 was a key link in the masterpiece chain of Seasons 2-8, IMO.

Remember this isn't my point of view. I have seen just half of season 6 (including greats like Lisa's Wedding, Homer the Great, Homie the Clown, Bart's Girlfriend, Bart of Darkness etc) and two from season 7 (Who Shot Mr Burns Pt 2 and Lisa the Vegetarian), but I enjoyed almost all those episodes, except perhaps Lisa the Vegetarian, which I've only seen once and several years ago. Yet at the time I watched most of them I was much more of a casual viewer than a 'diehard fan'.

I was just reiterating what a few people including this Amazon reviewer still think about season 4 being the last truly great season and things going downhill from season 5 onwards, which is clearly wrong in most people's opinion here.