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  1. #1
    Birthplace of the Flaming Moe Welcome to Moe's's Avatar
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    Question To those who feel The Simpsons lost it's way, please kindly read.

    Hear me out on this one as this is coming from a different angle as opposed to the usual comparison type, should The Simpsons end kinda vibe we've had a million times before.

    I also am one who loves the classic seasons and do watch these more than the newer seasons, mainly because I have them on DVD however even though I do watch the later seasons a lot (up until season 18 of course) I do find that most of the time it is a classic season that I put on.

    That said, watching the new episodes now I do enjoy and more times than not when I'm watching them I do think how they're not really as bad as made out, an example being my thread from yesterday in regards to Dangers on a Train, I was watching this episode last night and really enjoying it, just as much as I do the classic seasons episodes and it wasn't until I realised that I was into the episode and laughing quite a bit that I was like "You know what, this is just as enjoyable", in fact I was laughing a little more at the episode as it felt fresh simply due to it being a long time since I last saw this and didn't really remember much about it, it felt quite fresh watching it.

    So with that in mind, it just made me think how although we're always going to prefer the classic seasons for various reasons such as our love for the show back then, how it was fresh, the animation style and lots of reasons really but part of me did feel if we hadn't have seen the classic seasons or been born when these were around we'd no doubt be less critical on the show and probably enjoy it more, even though season 24 is seen as not a great season even at it's worse (for many) the show is still good and has every reason to be going, even at that point.

    But it did make me wonder too, have they really lost their way or have they evolved into a show and time that we're not favourable to? I mean, any animated show do seem to be along the lines of The Simpsons be it with the technology they are using, the animation feel etc.. although of course with a show that's been going so long it's inevitable that they're going to have a time where they've done the majority of things they can do but I find that they're still witty, funny and even in the lesser popular seasons I would rather watch a bad season of The Simpsons than say an episode of The Regular Show (which is a very good show).

    It has got me wondering a little because when you think about it from this angle, can you honestly say the show should end and is it really that hard to watch say if we hadn't had the expectations or even awareness of the classic seasons, I don't think it is though I get it people might feel different hence the discussion.

    I look forward to hearing from you guys who can contribute with a valid discussion to this because while watching Dangers on a Train and really enjoying the episode, I did feel that not only was I really enjoying it but without the classic seasons being aware to us if I watched this as a new show I would have really liked the show and probably been less critical on the episodes that aren't quite as strong which makes me wonder if the show would be more praised even during these lesser seasons than it is (I think it would).

    So what do you think? I look forward to hearing from you guys though please kindly contribute with this in mind and taking this angle on board as it really is a different way to look at it than we're probably used to.


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  3. #2
    Administrator Sam's Avatar
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    yeah


  4. #3
    The Devil in Blue Shorts BloodySimpsonChibi's Avatar
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    My thoughts exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaine View Post
    I'd imagine patting Lisa on the head would sting, damn kids with their spiky heads.



  5. #4
    Actually an Esquilax Venomrabbit's Avatar
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    I do try my best to judge things on their own merits and yes I definitely get that mindset and what you're saying. As a Pokemon fan I get the immense annoyance when people complain to hell and back because "there's only 151 pokemooooon" and then complain about gamefreak focusing on exactly the things they said to. How every single Sonic game ever has to be prefaced with a "Was Sonic ever good? HMMMMMMM" debate. It seems some people are out to hate literally anything new solely because it's new and everyone else is doing it.

    And I think giving things its fair shake may actually produce some good results. I genuinely liked Season 27, to the point where it may be a contender for top 8. But while some things still stand as good on their own, there's a lot that's also bad on their own. The neverending parade of forgettable or grating guest stars while a gigantic cast goes to waste even when they feel made for some of these roles? That'd still bother me. Whether or not the classic seasons existed doesn't suddenly make a difference with the blatant favourites-playing fine, S28 would still be a backed up sewer of misery and mean-spiritedness. There's some things even the classics would do really shaky.

    And I think that's what sours my view on them. Not because "it's not exactly like the old ones!" but there's stuff that is bad on its own. If it puts anything into perspective, my main frustration is rarely because "it could be just like the classic seasons" (outside of trying to relate it to other people) but more "it could be a lot better than it is!" heck, if they pick up on some of the things they could ("Oh hey we have a gigantic cast that's going to waste here, how bout we use some of them for stuff?" As someone mired in fanworks, there's a few characters that are way more fun than they're given credit for, once they get a chance) it could be even better than the classic seasons. I mean remember Pokemon Black and White when the genwunner drama peaked? Far as I'm concerned those are the best of the entire series. And while I suspect their hands are tied in a few instances (the guest stars in particular) a lot of its flaws could be fixed and its strengths drawn out but I guess they don't feel like it?

    Not that comparisons to the older ones aren't a thing I do, there's a lot they did right and it'd be nice to see the modern ones take a tip or few from them, not to just ape the older seasons but to help it stand better on its own.


  6. #5
    Birthplace of the Flaming Moe Welcome to Moe's's Avatar
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    Yep @Venomrabbit, you absolutely got it in regards to the angle of the thread, appreciate that!

    I can imagine that to be honest with the Sonic games and anything really that's been around a long time, it goes to show that they all do have this against them once they've been around a long time, I have heard when they did the Sonic games in 3D people saying they weren't good anymore and even recently, although a little less, now they've returned to the 2D classic Sonic style I've heard people say they're not as good still yet I've found them enjoyable (although I prefer Mario but it is very close haha).

    I hear you about the guest stars, I guess this kind of goes back to the Movie in a way too how they have so many characters in Springfield already yet they brought in and created new characters which really wasn't needed, although the characters may not have been bad we have a whole cast in Springfield where someone could fill those roles and who we'd like to see on the big screen but if this is something that feels like a let down a little in regards to the new seasons I get this also and same with the season 28 thing you mentioned too.

    So basically of The Simpsons was a new show introduced to you around the later seasons without any of the earlier seasons being around you'd still feel the same from what you mention here so it's a really great post. I'm guessing you'd still like the show (better than others maybe?) but you'd find these things still regardless so I get that.

    Really great post as I know that when you're so used to seeing something a certain way (as most of us are with The Simpsons) it is a different way to look at it like this to see if we get the same vibe, so thank you

  7. #6
    oh dear, I say! The Spruce Moose's Avatar
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    tl;dr
    Quote Originally Posted by The Egg Council Creepy View Post
    Here's FIVE non-rock songs I like:
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  8. #7


    Pokemon black and white are my least favorite games. Stupid Peta based evil organization? Check. Forced to use your new caught dragon legend when you would rather trade it untouched? Check. 0 old gen pokemon available before e4? Check. Long unskippable cut scenes? Check. Online features completely removed (bye bye dream world and gts trades)? Check. I'm not a gen wunner. Currently loving moon (and looking for someone to trade me for my shiny machoke) and from what I hear, the ultra games are even better, but bw aged poorly. I'd rather play platinum or even dp and their dearth of fire types were more fun than bw. Plus the dppt rival has more personality than Bianca and cheren.

    As for Simpsons, there are some gems in the post classic seasons. I remember really liking I am furious yellow and the book job and even serfsons had some creativity (freaking love aslan preaching the good word). It isn't the same show as the classics but then this isn't he 90s anymore and pop culture has changed. Simpsons was a phenomenal, now Rick and Morty is. I don't care for Rick, but I am not the target audience anymore, and today's comedy style is different from what I grew up with. Not bad, just different. Simpsons is trying to adapt to today's culture and sometimes it works, some times they get it wrong. The clown stays in the picture I think was getting it wrong. Nothing in it satirizes the 80s and really it ought to have been set in the 2000s and there's a lot of humor hey could have mined from that decade: anime everywhere, flip phones, 9/11 ultra patriotism etc. But overall I think modern Simpsons is okay, it's not always hilarious but it's something me and the hubby enjoy together still.
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  9. #8
    Birthplace of the Flaming Moe Welcome to Moe's's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've actually been watching season 24 for the past few days or so and it's actually really good, I'm really enjoying it, I know that's an unpopular opinion as it's one of the least rated seasons but I've found myself laughing at it quite a bit, it's been quite witty and it's enjoyable.

    I don't think it's as bad as it's made out to be but of course that's just my opinion, sure a few things seem a little different like the technology they're using in this (iPads etc..) which isn't my favourite thing by any means but as I say in the OP really

  10. #9
    Pin Pal Szyslak100's Avatar
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    Well, I do not think The Simpsons have lost their way. The passage of time is inevitable, as are changes and evolution. They are still, and always will be, my favorite program, and not precisely because of what they have done in the past. I know it may sound strange, but lately I enjoy watching an episode of the HD era more than one of the first seasons. I'm not saying they're better, but I enjoy them more.

    I admit there are some episodes that are bad. But the reality for me is that I enjoy a lot. On average, I think there are ten good episodes per season, seven average and five bad. And even the worst have something to value.

    I hope they never let the series die. It does not matter what reception you have. It does not matter if there are episodes that leave a bitter taste. I do not change the excitement generated by a new episode and the blessing that they are more and more.
    SEASON 30 RANKINGS: Bart's Not Dead: 3/5 / Heartbreak Hotel: 2/5 / My Way or the Highway to Heaven: 3/5 / Treehouse of Horror XXIX: 2/5 / Baby You Can't Drive My Car: 4/5 / From Russia Without Love: 4/5 / Werking Mom: 4/5 / Krusty the Clown: 4/5 / Daddicus Finch: 5/5 / Tis the Thirtieth Season: 2/5 / Mad About the Toy: 3/5 / The Girl on the Bus: 3/5 / I'm Dancing as Fat as I Can: 4/5 / The Clown Stays in the Picture: 2/5 / 101 Mitigations: 4/5 / I Want You (She's So Heavy): 1/5 / E My Sports 4/5 / Bart vs. Itchy & Scratchy: 5/5 / Girl's in the Band: 4/5 / I'm Just a Girl Who Can't Say D'oh: 2/5 / D'oh Canada: 2/5


  11. #10
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    Yeah @Szyslak100, I agree with you completely. I've been enjoying this season mentioned above more than I thought I would have done, not that I wouldn't, I always love and enjoy The Simpsons but sometimes you can have episodes that are just in the background and then you can have one's that really catch you and you find yourself laughing at it, enjoying it etc.. which I have done.

    It's been ages since I've seen season 24 however lately they've been on TV so I've been recording them with my Youview box and watching them and they're brilliant, of course it's subjective and I get that but I also can't really understand why this season gets knocked as much as it does, it's made to sound like a really unwatchable show at times yet it's enjoyable, I dunno, each to their own haha

    I think it's like what you say there, there are some episodes that aren't so great but you enjoy a lot and that's how it is for me really.

    I agree with you about letting the series die simply cause of the reception it has, honestly, I think it's more a trend to be honest than anything and the majority of it is exaggerated, again, I don't disrespect the fact it's subjective opinion but I'm pretty sure the majority of it is because it's The Simpsons and it's been going so long, there seems to be a trend around it to say how bad it is. It's like these pop groups you get when one minute it's trendy to love them and everyone loves them and then the next band of phenomenon comes out and then slowly but surely the previous band is uncool to like, the Simpsons are like the New Kids on the Block of TV shows or something haha (although to be fair NKOTB seem to be doing pretty well still but you get my point ha).

    The only thing I really hope is that when they do end the show they give it the finale it deserves, I'd be really disappointing if the show we've loved for however many years (30 years for some people) just ended and didn't get the finale it deserved, it would be a huge disappointment.

    Other than that, I'm happy with the show to continue cause they're great, they just need to have that back up ending just in case.

  12. #11
    Junior Camper Captain Wacky's Avatar
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    As subjective as entertainment is, I find it extremely difficult to believe that S24 is equivalent to the classic era in terms of... anything, to be honest, what with the stiffer and more clinical/uninspired animation, the poorer plot structure, more stilted voice acting and more unnatural-sounding dialogue. I can understand your enjoyment of it being equivalent to the classic era, considering that your own perceptions of the more subjective elements (such as quality of gags) are subject to the principle of differing opinion, but stating that S24 is 'just as good' as the classic era is a pretty sweeping statement when considering the technical aspects of the two eras (comparing, say, Moonshine River and Love is a Many-Splintered Thing, widely agreed to be two of S24's worst, to even the weakest classic era episodes such as The Canine Mutiny or Two Bad Neighbours is like donating sand to the beach on an intentional structural, performance and visual level, in which case the latter is evidently more solid and focused). The HD era isn't entirely devoid of good, but I also believe that, on the aforementioned aspects, the naysayers have a valid point worth consideration.

    I also tend to suspect that the current group of fans decrying the show's current quality isn't entirely composed of trendsurfers - although one could debate that a number legitimately are, a sizeable majority actually do provide valid reasoning for their opinions, which indicates mere expression of opinion as opposed to a full case of crowd mentality.
    Last edited by Captain Wacky; 03-16-2019 at 11:57 AM.


  13. #12
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    Yeah, I wouldn't say it was equivalent to the classic era, I tend to try not compare them like that to be honest but I have found that I've been really enjoying the episodes, but yeah, it really is the gags thing like you say, I've found them quite quirky and witty which is what The Simpsons are good at I reckon and I have been enjoying them like how I have the classic era if that makes sense? Like I've found myself invested in them more than I realised while watching them again

  14. #13
    I'm baaaack! Patches O'houlihan's Avatar
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    Well, I do not think The Simpsons have lost their way. The passage of time is inevitable, as are changes and evolution
    I think it's wrong to say the show 'evolved' because for something to 'evolve', it has to lose some bad traits in order to become better than it was before. IMO, other than looking better on an HD television, what does the simpsons from the past 15 seasons do better than the first 15 seasons? How is the show funnier? How is it 'fresher'? How is the satire better?

    If I want a 'dramady', I'll watch Seasons 1-4; If I want 'just jokes', I"ll watch S4-6 and if I want a blend of both, I'll watch S7-9. IMO, anything onwards is a mixed bag that sometimes is good--and even shows some brilliance--but is, at best, passable entertainment.


  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches O'houlihan View Post
    I think it's wrong to say the show 'evolved' because for something to 'evolve', it has to lose some bad traits in order to become better than it was before. IMO, other than looking better on an HD television, what does the simpsons from the past 15 seasons do better than the first 15 seasons? How is the show funnier? How is it 'fresher'? How is the satire better?

    If I want a 'dramady', I'll watch Seasons 1-4; If I want 'just jokes', I"ll watch S4-6 and if I want a blend of both, I'll watch S7-9. IMO, anything onwards is a mixed bag that sometimes is good--and even shows some brilliance--but is, at best, passable entertainment.
    Well I guess it's adapted to the times more so than evolving then but I get what you mean, it's hard to explain cause it's like it's a different show but it's also not which sounds contradicting, it's like it still has the witty humour and it is quite clever, it's just a lot of things they have already done and they're also bringing a show in a different era now which they've had to cater for but I don't think they've lost their way as such as mentioned in the OP, if we watched the show as a new show we'd probably be a little less critical towards it in certain ways.

    I feel personally anyway, of course, I can't speak for everyone and others do feel differently but for me it's a case of this really, I know you've not said it's a bad show by any means (and it's ok even if you did) but it is still a really great show and one of the best shows on TV I feel but it's just been around so long that anything that may have been there to support it (IE novelty, new show, fresh ideas etc..) aren't as strong now and it does affect it for some people, which I get completely

    Watching the season 24 again after so long I have found myself enjoying it a lot and as it's considered as one of the worse seasons by many, watching it back does make me feel like it's actually really not even that bad, definitely not as bad as it's made out to be that's for sure but again, it is all subjective and people do feel there's very valid points in regards to why but it does make a good discussion I feel seeing the different vibes, watching it back, I expected to enjoy it less but I've found myself really invested in it and laughing at it quite a lot as it has been quite witty

  16. #15
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    I think the show did decline as a result of the Scully years, then stagnated when Jean took over. I enjoy the majority of post-classic seasons. They usually compromise around 15 mediocre-good episodes, 5 truly awful ones, and 2 on par with the classic years. But they have (for the most part) been playing it safe for the last 17 years, not taking any risks or changing things up, and doing the same thing for 30 seasons is going to wear thin. Most episodes from the HD era are Frankenstien monsters of plots from the classic era. So of course when you sit down to watch a new episode, it's not going to be bad, but only because you've kind of seen it before.

    Compare it to how South Park has managed to stay (mostly) fresh despite being around for almost as long as The Simpsons. It's become very experimental in the last few years, switching between serialized and semi-serialized, trying to find the right balance that works. It hasn't always worked, but it's admirable that they at least took the risk, it feels like the show can still grow after 22 years. The Simpsons, like its characters, isn't growing.


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    This is obviously the case, as it is with Spongebob and every show that has been on for a while. It is also the fact that peoples' tastes evolve as they get older and they fall more in love with nostalgia. Maybe the older seasons are objectively better, maybe not, but writing the newer ones off is not okay.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.J.Watts View Post
    I think the show did decline as a result of the Scully years, then stagnated when Jean took over. I enjoy the majority of post-classic seasons. They usually compromise around 15 mediocre-good episodes, 5 truly awful ones, and 2 on par with the classic years. But they have (for the most part) been playing it safe for the last 17 years, not taking any risks or changing things up, and doing the same thing for 30 seasons is going to wear thin. Most episodes from the HD era are Frankenstien monsters of plots from the classic era. So of course when you sit down to watch a new episode, it's not going to be bad, but only because you've kind of seen it before.

    Compare it to how South Park has managed to stay (mostly) fresh despite being around for almost as long as The Simpsons. It's become very experimental in the last few years, switching between serialized and semi-serialized, trying to find the right balance that works. It hasn't always worked, but it's admirable that they at least took the risk, it feels like the show can still grow after 22 years. The Simpsons, like its characters, isn't growing.
    The last part of this conflicts me, when you say "The Simpsons, like it's characters, isn't growing" I'm torn on because although I agree that there's always room for growth and improvement, the characters have established themselves the way they are so what do they need to grow into? This could then lead to too much change in them which as we know some people feel that certain characters have changed (not for the best for many) organically so sometimes I do wonder if it's best that they were cemented as opposed to their growth as a character, so many talk about too how characters who are scarce are better scarce with less known about them as that also makes them special.

    It's interesting though, I don't disagree with this but I am kinda torn on this as I can see both sides of the coin.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuffBlimp View Post
    This is obviously the case, as it is with Spongebob and every show that has been on for a while. It is also the fact that peoples' tastes evolve as they get older and they fall more in love with nostalgia. Maybe the older seasons are objectively better, maybe not, but writing the newer ones off is not okay.
    Yeah, I do wonder how much nostalgia plays in this, I don't think it's the catalyst for people's feelings on this at all (I do feel people genuinely feel The Simpsons have lost their way a little) though I'm sure there is a element of nostalgia in it for most too, specially if they watched during the classic seasons in the 90's when the show was fresh and new.

  19. #18
    Release the Hounds Shoskin's Avatar
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    I do find that most of the time it is a classic season that 'll start this off as I have been here since the beginning. We, my classmates loved the Simpsons got the simple fact that it was funny and clever. Plus some some parents hated it. My mother still hates Homer. I don't know why. However she never stopped me from watching.

    Now do I think the show has lost it ways. Sometimes. When you have writers like Conan O'Brien , they went as wacky as they could. They pushed boundaries that shows didn't do at the time. For example: Let's make a episode about George Bush who bad mouth the show. Where they lost it's way at times when it got over political. Some writers are now using the show as there pedestal. I at times don't want to be preached to since I'm exposed to it all the time. Most Plus the characters haven't really evolved, unless its to promote what the writer wants. Sometimes some characters have de-evovled, a subject we've talked about before.

    Now there are some new episodes I really like and some I can't stand. Dangers On A Train is a decent episode. Love Helen Lovejoy getting mad that Tim is willing to fix a marriage as long as it isn't theirs. Plus it being Marge must hurt more. The bipolar express. Once Upon a Time in Springfield is a favorite episode of mine for both the story and the excellant voice and singing work of Anne Hathaway. Now one thing I really don't like other than boy/girl crush episode, such as The Musk Who Fell to Earth; is the repetitive episodes which we have talked about on here before like Lisa feeling sorry for herself, Marge getting mad at Homer.

    Every season has it share of good and bad episodes. To me, the classic years rarely had as much as they do now.
    Homer: Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.
    Marge: Homer! Watch your mouth!
    Homer: Aw, I gotta go. My damn weiner kids are listening.
    Lisa: We are not weiners!


  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoskin View Post
    I do find that most of the time it is a classic season that 'll start this off as I have been here since the beginning. We, my classmates loved the Simpsons got the simple fact that it was funny and clever. Plus some some parents hated it. My mother still hates Homer. I don't know why. However she never stopped me from watching.

    Now do I think the show has lost it ways. Sometimes. When you have writers like Conan O'Brien , they went as wacky as they could. They pushed boundaries that shows didn't do at the time. For example: Let's make a episode about George Bush who bad mouth the show. Where they lost it's way at times when it got over political. Some writers are now using the show as there pedestal. I at times don't want to be preached to since I'm exposed to it all the time. Most Plus the characters haven't really evolved, unless its to promote what the writer wants. Sometimes some characters have de-evovled, a subject we've talked about before.

    Now there are some new episodes I really like and some I can't stand. Dangers On A Train is a decent episode. Love Helen Lovejoy getting mad that Tim is willing to fix a marriage as long as it isn't theirs. Plus it being Marge must hurt more. The bipolar express. Once Upon a Time in Springfield is a favorite episode of mine for both the story and the excellant voice and singing work of Anne Hathaway. Now one thing I really don't like other than boy/girl crush episode, such as The Musk Who Fell to Earth; is the repetitive episodes which we have talked about on here before like Lisa feeling sorry for herself, Marge getting mad at Homer.

    Every season has it share of good and bad episodes. To me, the classic years rarely had as much as they do now.
    That's a good post! I agree about the political side of things, don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me personally such as seeing all the Trump stuff (which is probably because I'm not in the US) but I can understand how when it's too much it could do people's head in a little, I also agree with the Lisa feeling sorry for herself episodes and the Marge/Homer thing. To be honest, I think I'm in the minority here however I've not really enjoyed the Lisa centred episodes as much as most, I haven't hated them or anything but they've never been one of my favourites what I can think of (maybe "Lisa's Substitute" as I did love that episode) but on a whole I don't have that many favourite Lisa episodes for some reason.

    There probably is more hit and miss episodes now for sure, in fact, it's undeniable as there is however I put that down to the fact they've done so much that it's harder to come up with new fresh idea's now which isn't a reflection of them losing their way as such (from that perspective) but simply that they're finding it harder to do something they haven't done before.

    They do seem to have quite a bit of steam in the tank though still as they do bring good episodes often (again, without the classic seasons comparison) though I do feel that if they do start to struggle more as they've done more things too, they really should consider wrapping up the show and working on that ending we so desperately want for the show. It would be the worst thing ever if the show just came to a sudden stop and didn't get the ending it deserves (for me personally anyway).

    Great post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welcome to Moe's View Post
    Yeah, I do wonder how much nostalgia plays in this, I don't think it's the catalyst for people's feelings on this at all (I do feel people genuinely feel The Simpsons have lost their way a little) though I'm sure there is a element of nostalgia in it for most too, specially if they watched during the classic seasons in the 90's when the show was fresh and new.
    Well, I think it is the catalyst. They may think The Simpsons lost its way, leading to tons of blogs/articles/videos about it, but I am not convinced that it stems from anything but a longing for what they grew up with. The show evolved. I am not saying it is the same show. I am saying it is good because it is not the same.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuffBlimp View Post
    Well, I think it is the catalyst. They may think The Simpsons lost its way, leading to tons of blogs/articles/videos about it, but I am not convinced that it stems from anything but a longing for what they grew up with. The show evolved. I am not saying it is the same show. I am saying it is good because it is not the same.
    Yeah I know what you mean, it is the same show in a way but obviously as it's adapted to the times in certain ways there has of course been a few changes, I mean the TV for example and them using iPads and iPhones but they've still stayed The Simpsons if that makes sense haha

    But yeah, I think nostalgia plays a part in it to some degree, I mean for me, I can honestly say that if it was better (or anything really) now than in the 90's I'd be able to see that and say but everything in the 90's was so much better anyway and it's really not nostalgia with it all either, MTV was so much better (MTV Europe), the TV shows on Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network etc... were so much better, the music was so widespread and less generic, movies I do feel have improved and got better now than they were back then but the majority of things were better back in the 90's I feel but I completely hear what you're saying and I don't disagree either

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    Personally, even though I don't exaggerate how bad modern Simpsons is, I'm just concerned for everyone who has been working on the show since the late 80s (who are older than 50-60 at this point). With the exception of Hank Azaria, the veteran voice cast sound like they don't want to do the show anymore, especially Shearer and Kavner. I do have some positives on it (like a few characters are still funny, putting animation their A Game in recent years), but the negatives outweighs the bad.

    I just prefer modern Family Guy, another show many people have beef with. Then again, it's at leas the show doesn't have the same showrunner for almost 18 years and doesn't resort to controversies for attention.
    Simpsons: 4 > 6 = 7 > 5 > 3 > 8 > 2 > 14 > 15 > 13 = 10 > 9 > 16 > 20 > 1 > 24 = 21 > 26 > 22 = 25 > 23 > 19 = 27 > 18 = 28 > 12 > 11 > 17 = 29

    Family Guy: 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 5 = 6 > 15 > 16 > 10 > 14 > > 7 = 11 = 9 > 8 > 12 = 13

    American Dad: 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 6 > 5 > 8 > 9 > 7 = 11 > 10 > 13 (so far) > 12

    The Cleveland Show: 2 > 1 > 4 > 3

    Futurama: 5 > 4 = 1 > 2 = 3 > 7 > 6

    Rick and Morty: 2 > 1 > 3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welcome to Moe's View Post
    But yeah, I think nostalgia plays a part in it to some degree, I mean for me, I can honestly say that if it was better (or anything really) now than in the 90's I'd be able to see that and say but everything in the 90's was so much better anyway and it's really not nostalgia with it all either, MTV was so much better (MTV Europe), the TV shows on Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network etc... were so much better, the music was so widespread and less generic
    I think this has something to do with perspective and the target demographic of these things. Unfortunately, Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network no longer have to appeal to your tastes' because you have aged out of their bracket. In addition, it might also have something to do with a lot of ideas already having been done and a reluctance to move away from what works and what does not.

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    I know several people have brought up nostalgia/evolving tastes as a reason why people prefer classic Simpsons to modern Simpsons, and while it might be a contributing factor for many people it definitely wasn't for me. I only started watching the show a couple of years ago, and was introduced to classic Simpsons about a month before the Every Simpsons Ever marathon introduced me to a lot of the post-classic episodes, and I still think post-classic Simpsons is not very good (though the exact level of quality varies enough that I can't in good conscience say something like "post-classic Simpsons is watchable but mediocre", "post-classic Simps is decent but not great" or "post-classic Simpsons is unwatchably bad").
    Last edited by TenEight; 04-04-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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    @Welcome to Moe's

    There are a couple of Lisa centered episodes I do really like, but lately there has been too many. However, one of my favorite episodes is Lisa the Tree Hugger. I'm from the Bay Area and though I'm not a granola eating sandal wearer I do care about the environment. But if there is a chance Trump would get rid of EPA, Dept. Of Interior and the US Forest Service. I wish Theodore Roosevelt was alive to put a foot up his ass. BTW, Lisa's comment in Bart Stops to Smell the Roosevelts, is total bullshit. Roosevelt was very passionate about the forests in the country and to use the idea that he only did it for hunting is extremely petty from the writers, especially since Franklin Roosevelt used a lot of his ideas when he was president. Btw, this epsiode is one of my favorites of the later years because someone actually challenges Bart with education and care about learning. No Sofía Vergara doesn't count.

    I'm from the Bay Area and the one thing this area likes more than its wine, and we love our wine, is bashing El Presidente. The man is just terrible and is putting us back years domestically and internationally like Europe. I understand that people have opinions and want to get them out but sometimes a show like this isn't where they should do it. Plus it's all we get in the news. I have to at times if I want to hear world news I go to the BBC. Not sure if it's the best site, It's the only place next to John Oliver I can read anything on Brexit which is something you are probably tired of hearing about. I don't even know if people know what Brexit is or even the Yellow Vest Movement. I sometimes alright with laughing at Bart writing Don't Tread On Me on his ass and laughing about it.


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    I was born in that time when Bill Oakley and Josh Weinstein had decided to jump from a sinking ship - so to speak. Actually I started watching the show in the late 2000s, partly thanks to The Simpsons Movie. With that in mind, as you said, I should be less critical towards the show and probably enjoy HD era more, but no... Though I have to admit that the show itself I have been watching properly - from the first Christmas episode, but of course it's not the same if I was actually a prime 90s kid. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but not every second 2000s kid would prefer to watch episodes from HD era over the classic ones. I'll go even farther and say that I don't think anyone from Post-Millennials would really hook up with the worst of all eras of The Simpsons - which happened in 2015 when Fox had ordered seasons 27 and 28 - era of unprecedented hypocrisy. So, the last watchable season which contains a half of second-rate episodes, but still has a number of really good ones throughout was season 23. As you can see, I found 16:9 widescreen episodes quite good in the overall context. But there is a limit to everything, and I guess for me it's around season 24-present. Lots of average-to-bad episodes all throughout these seasons; there are still a few really interesting episodes, but the bad outweighs the good without fail. See, the thing is not what generation you belong to. I'm saying it on behalf of of the majority of my classmates or friends, who were kids and teenagers during the last two decades. The modern show is pretty bad, and this is not about animation - it's about a plot. And the problem isn't just The Simpsons. In that regard, I agree with you. But The Simpsons has been continuing degradation of the script quality drastically over the last five years, and other animated sitcoms have the same problem actually. This situation has contributed to the growing popularity of TV series like The Middle, which episodes are better than a part of the latest episodes of The Simpsons. Well, that's strange, because we are talking about The Simpsons, and that's not even Family Guy If you get what I mean. So, yeah, the biggest problem of the modern animated shows is that they are still trying to be everything to everyone - but it doesn't work like that with a modern and future-oriented plots, sorry.
    Last edited by BartArt; 04-04-2019 at 08:53 AM.

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    When I first started watching the Simpsons, Season 10 was airing in the UK for the first time. I had no point of reference for what episodes were in what season, and watching the show in syndication I saw the first 12 seasons muddled together and scattered all over the place (I probably saw most of the Scully seasons before I saw the classics). My point is I don't think nostalgia clouds my judgement, because I still believe Seasons 10 and 11 represent a massive dip in quality despite them being my first exposure to the Simpsons. I still have nostalgic memories for as late as Season 18.

    I've been wondering if the problem was letting Mike Scully run the show for 4 years instead of two, the length every previous showrunner held the position for. Consistently changing it kept the show fresh, Scully did a good job with 9, and you can probably cobble together a strong 22-episode season 10 from the good episodes of seasons 10 through 12. (ditch episodes like 'Saddlesore Galactica' and 'Homer vs. Dignity', save episodes like 'Behind the Laughter' and 'Trilogy of Error') Maybe Scully stretched his creativity too thin over 4 seasons. Then Al Jean should've handed the show over to Matt Selman after doing two years himself.

    It's very impressive how many of the best post-classic episodes were penned by Matt Selma (Trilogy of Error, The Dad Who Knew Too Little, The Haw-Hawed Couple, The Food Wife).

    On the other hand, it's shocking how many terrible post-classic episodes were penned by John Swartzwelder (Kidney Trouble, Monty Can't Buy Me Love, Kill the Alligator and Run, The Frying Game)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuffBlimp View Post
    I think this has something to do with perspective and the target demographic of these things. Unfortunately, Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network no longer have to appeal to your tastes' because you have aged out of their bracket. In addition, it might also have something to do with a lot of ideas already having been done and a reluctance to move away from what works and what does not.
    I disagree, simply because like with a lot of the older shows, my nephews (all three of them) aren't really interested in all the new shows that are on now and they're always asking me to put the DVD's on of the older shows or if they can borrow them (when they're not on their Playstation's that is lol) simply because they prefer the older shows and they appeal to them more, they're just not interested in Sanjay and Craig and all that stuff (they do however love The Loud House which isn't surprising considering this is a fantastic show with that old school feel it brings).

    They're always wanting to watch Doug, Rocko's Modern Life, Beavis and Butthead, Asterix, Peanuts, Simpsons, Flintstones, Spongebob and won't entertain the new shows (even though they've had the channels on all the time but they just don't get into it) so I dunno, once they get into and see these shows they tend to prefer these over the new wave of animated shows, my friends little lad also is exactly the same in his house, it's very debatable is that.

    I agree with that last part though, so many things have been done and I do feel this is an issue, this is why they can expand to other characters more as they have the opportunity there to do so

    Quote Originally Posted by TenEight View Post
    I know several people have brought up nostalgia/evolving tastes as a reason why people prefer classic Simpsons to modern Simpsons, and while it might be a contributing factor for many people it definitely wasn't for me. I only started watching the show a couple of years ago, and was introduced to classic Simpsons about a month before the Every Simpsons Ever marathon introduced me to a lot of the post-classic episodes, and I still think post-classic Simpsons is not very good (though the exact level of quality varies enough that I can't in good conscience say something like "post-classic Simpsons is watchable but mediocre", "post-classic Simps or "post-classic Simpsons is unwatchably bad").
    I agree with this and understand this completely, this is why I do feel that maybe to a degree it does but on a whole I don't think it's much of a catalyst. That's a really good and insightful post

    Quote Originally Posted by BartArt View Post
    The modern show is pretty bad, and this is not about animation - it's about a plot. And the problem isn't The Simpsons. In that regard, I agree with you. But the show has been continuing degradation of the script quality over the last five years, and other animated sitcoms have the same problem. This situation has contributed to the growing popularity of TV series like The Middle, which episodes are better than the part of the latest episodes of The Simpsons. Well, that's strange, because we are talking about The Simpsons, and that's not even Family Guy If you get what I mean. So, yeah, the biggest problem of the modern animated shows is that they are still trying to be everything to everyone - but it does not work like that with a modern and future-oriented plots, sorry.
    This doesn't make a lot of sense and contradicts for me a lot within the paragraph, unless I'm reading it wrong (which is possible) but it did contradict in a lot of ways.

    "The modern show is pretty bad, and this is not about animation - it's about a plot" then "And the problem isn't The Simpsons" - The Simpsons come up with their plots as do every show with their own, so if it's about plot surely the problem would be about the show creating the plot?

    "But the show has been continuing degradation of the script quality over the last five years, and other animated sitcoms have the same problem" - So there's a pattern here if it's not exclusive to The Simpsons?

    "This situation has contributed to the growing popularity of TV series like The Middle, which episodes are better than the part of the latest episodes of The Simpsons. Well, that's strange, because we are talking about The Simpsons, and that's not even Family Guy If you get what I mean." - I get what you mean about how other shows can grow in popularity when another show declines however The Simpsons has always been stronger than Family Guy where it comes to substance and it is a slightly different demographic (Family Guy would never be prime time family viewing which The Simpsons have sustained (it's also the hardest and most critical audience to please))

    "So, yeah, the biggest problem of the modern animated shows is that they are still trying to be everything to everyone - but it does not work like that with a modern and future-oriented plots, sorry." - When you say modern animated shows is this in regards to The Simpsons modern seasons or shows completely different to The Simpsons that are new? If it's in regards to The Simpsons I don't see how they're trying to be everything to everyone as not only are they the main influence who paved the way but they've always been their own, the only difference is how they've adapted to modern times with things but I don't really get this to be honest.

    Maybe I've read the post wrong but a lot of that didn't make sense, unless of course I've read it wrong as sometimes text is hard to translate in regards to how it's meant/read.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.J.Watts View Post
    When I first started watching the Simpsons, Season 10 was airing in the UK for the first time. I had no point of reference for what episodes were in what season, and watching the show in syndication I saw the first 12 seasons muddled together and scattered all over the place (I probably saw most of the Scully seasons before I saw the classics). My point is I don't think nostalgia clouds my judgement, because I still believe Seasons 10 and 11 represent a massive dip in quality despite them being my first exposure to the Simpsons. I still have nostalgic memories for as late as Season 18.

    I've been wondering if the problem was letting Mike Scully run the show for 4 years instead of two, the length every previous showrunner held the position for. Consistently changing it kept the show fresh, Scully did a good job with 9, and you can probably cobble together a strong 22-episode season 10 from the good episodes of seasons 10 through 12. (ditch episodes like 'Saddlesore Galactica' and 'Homer vs. Dignity', save episodes like 'Behind the Laughter' and 'Trilogy of Error') Maybe Scully stretched his creativity too thin over 4 seasons. Then Al Jean should've handed the show over to Matt Selman after doing two years himself.

    It's very impressive how many of the best post-classic episodes were penned by Matt Selma (Trilogy of Error, The Dad Who Knew Too Little, The Haw-Hawed Couple, The Food Wife).

    On the other hand, it's shocking how many terrible post-classic episodes were penned by John Swartzwelder (Kidney Trouble, Monty Can't Buy Me Love, Kill the Alligator and Run, The Frying Game)
    This is also another great and really insightful post

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    What I meant was that all modern cartoons have the plot problems - be it The Simpsons, or be it even SpongeBob SquarePants - they all have been severely degraded over these years - the time isn't right for animated series, especially for the old shows in ''a fresh approach''. But it's not the same with the new ones, or even with remakes, which of course are worst than original, but definitely were remastered in a big way - and that's not the same as with ''the old guard''.

    With regard to The Simpsons, the show has its own unique problems with the scripts for a long time, but it has drastically increased over the last five years, capish?


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    Quote Originally Posted by BartArt View Post
    What I meant was that all modern cartoons have the plot problems - be it The Simpsons, or be it even SpongeBob SquarePants - they all have been severely degraded over these years - the time isn't right for animated series, especially for the old shows in ''a fresh approach''. But it's not the same with the new ones, or even with remakes, which of course are worst than original, but definitely were remastered in a big way - and that's not the same as with ''the old guard''.

    With regard to The Simpsons, the show has its own unique problems with the scripts for a long time, but it has drastically increased over the last five years, capish?
    Ah I get ya, I dunno, like I say above with my nephews and my friends little lad, they all want to watch the old cartoons and have barely any interest in the new one's and they weren't even born when they were out, when I was little I wasn't interested in older animations more than I was the current one's of the 90's, it was all those shows that were about then I loved.

    Thing is, a lot of them aren't interested in any TV shows now, they sit on Playstations or Xbox's for hours, barely see the outside and have no interest in anything other than that lol

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