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    الذهاب المغيرين hanna hilton's Avatar
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    "Stark Raving Dad" to be pulled from circulation

    https://tvline.com/2019/03/07/the-si...e-allegations/

    A fan-favorite episode of The Simpsons featuring Michael Jackson is being pulled from circulation in the wake of HBO’s disturbing new documentary Leaving Neverland.
    “I’m against book burning of any kind,” producer Jim Brooks tells The Wall Street Journal. “But this is our book, and we’re allowed to take out a chapter.”

    Leaving Neverland, which aired earlier this week in two parts, paints a horrific portrait of the late pop star, as two men who knew him when they were children — Wade Robson and James Safechuck — allege that they suffered years of sexual abuse at Jackson’s hands. The documentary originally premiered in Jan. 2019 at the Sundance Film Festival.
    not entirely sure I agree with this decision, though I see why they are doing it.
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  2. #2


    He didn't even sing on that episode.

    the thing is, this is not the first time that people have claimed he sexually assaulted them.. I guess times are changing, why now but not before still confuses me... not that I support ripping out pages from a book.


  3. #3
    Chatting Simpsons Since '93 Brad Lascelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankbags View Post
    He didn't even sing on that episode.

    the thing is, this is not the first time that people have claimed he sexually assaulted them.. I guess times are changing, why now but not before still confuses me... not that I support ripping out pages from a book.
    They were willing to dismiss the mountains of legitimate allegations of harassment and assault against Michael Jackson until it wasn't so easy to dismiss thanks to a well-put together documentary with testimony that spelled it out for them. Just like they were willing to dismiss the criticism of Apu and how offensive certain folks in the Indian-American community found his portrayal to be until a documentary did the same thing and they ripped out the character's voice box.

    Plus, this gets them easy PR points with a softball gesture. That's always a win.
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    Release the Hounds Shoskin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Lascelle View Post
    They were willing to dismiss the mountains of legitimate allegations of harassment and assault against Michael Jackson until it wasn't so easy to dismiss thanks to a well-put together documentary with testimony that spelled it out for them. Just like they were willing to dismiss the criticism of Apu and how offensive certain folks in the Indian-American community found his portrayal to be until a documentary did the same thing and they ripped out the character's voice box.

    Plus, this gets them easy PR points with a softball gesture. That's always a win.
    This show use to have balls. Just like Married With Children. It is a show of satire. It has many stereotypes. Should I get mad at how they make fun of Italians? I say no. Why? It never bothered me.

    To make my point is I read just reread a quote by Al Jean about the episode, "No Good Read Goes Unpunished." Al Jean tweeted, "New Simpsons in five minutes. Twitter explosion in act three." It was brilliant sarcastic joke. It was them coming out and saying we are going to buckle. Then they Buckled. Fox buckled!

    Now I haven't watched the either Hari Kondabolu or Michael Jackson documentaries and know my opinion is a little weak and biased; however all I read about the Apu documentary that its one sided. They really only talked to Indian-Americans. They didn't talk to many Indians outside, like in India. Only comedians or actors. These type of docs are reason I don't like Michael Moore docs.

    I like Apu. He quirky and eccentric just like the rest of the characters. I use to have a .wav file play when I shut off Windows that said "Please come again." Plus anyone who sings the song, "Dream Police" can't be all that bad.

    The Michael Jackson episode "Spark Raving Dad." is a brilliantly done episode. It has great jokes. It is also one of my favorites. I think the joke with Marge is on hold listening to the Pasty Cline song "Crazy" was great. But the episode wasn't about Michael Jackson. He didn't even use his own name. I'm not even sure if his family still gets royalties. The episode was about Homer being scared and needing a friend aand also helping Bart write a song for Lisa. Although Bart's original lyrics, "Lisa, her teeth are big and green. Lisa, she smells like gasoline," is classic Bart. i totally agree that its for PR. But it's pointless. We have tons of media outlets and ways to see this episode. I'm not defending him though, if he did what people are saying then it will be hart to listen to his music. It will be taken off the air. No one will do the Thriller dance. He will just fade away. I just hope they won't do it to this episode.

    If anyone doesn't know what a .wav file is, I pity you.

    Btw here is two great articles about Apu:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43699224

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-44027613


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    Stonecutter angeldeb82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankbags View Post
    He didn't even sing on that episode.
    Not to mention that MJ voiced his impersonator under the alias "John Jay Smith". I remember that.

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    Release the Hounds Shoskin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankbags View Post
    He didn't even sing on that episode.

    the thing is, this is not the first time that people have claimed he sexually assaulted them.. I guess times are changing, why now but not before still confuses me... not that I support ripping out pages from a book.
    The thing is his greatness overshadowed previous accusations. The people who accused him sounded phony. Then when his life started to fall apart aand holes in his life started to appear you start to think well maybe there actually something there. Other than being addicted to medicine, I don't know what to think.

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    Junior Camper Rutherford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoskin View Post
    The thing is his greatness overshadowed previous accusations. The people who accused him sounded phony. Then when his life started to fall apart aand holes in his life started to appear you start to think well maybe there actually something there. Other than being addicted to medicine, I don't know what to think.
    But why did the two lie under oath? Why did one of them try securing a Michael Jackson Cirque du Soleil series of shows back in 2011 and even said it was in tribute of him and his legacy and that they were good friends and was special to him? When that show didn't pan out, he started suing and making up all these allegations again. Watch this series of YouTube videos that explain everything, including all the evidence currently available:







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    Junior Camper TheDuffBlimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankbags View Post
    He didn't even sing on that episode.
    Not to mention that airing the episode (which was made and first aired decades earlier) in no way supports or benefits him financially.

  9. #9
    SuperFriend Rembrandt Q. Einstein's Avatar
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    It's an slightly unexpected decision, since the sexual assault allegations have been well-known for years. I can't blame them, but I figure people should be able to decide if they still want to separate the art from the artist in this case.


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    Junior Camper TheDuffBlimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rembrandt Q. Einstein View Post
    I can't blame them, but I figure people should be able to decide if they still want to separate the art from the artist in this case.
    They could easily make tons of money by appealing to both markets. All they have to do is release one box set without the episode including and one with it.

  11. #11
    الذهاب المغيرين hanna hilton's Avatar
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    It's already been pulled from the Simpsons World platform

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    Chatting Simpsons Since '93 Brad Lascelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanna hilton View Post
    It's already been pulled from the Simpsons World platform
    I was still able to purchase the digital license for the episode from YouTube roughly 30 minutes ago... but I don't imagine that it will remain up for long. (For the record, I have no qualms with them making this decision.)

  13. #13


    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Lascelle View Post
    I was still able to purchase the digital license for the episode from YouTube roughly 30 minutes ago... but I don't imagine that it will remain up for long. (For the record, I have no qualms with them making this decision.)
    How does youtube deal with that? are you just buying a streaming license or an actual digital copy?

  14. #14
    I'm a real user of women hutz's Avatar
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    it's a pretty devastating documentary but unless the jackson estate gets any money from reruns of this episode it really is an empty gesture

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    Junior Camper TheDuffBlimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutz View Post
    it's a pretty devastating documentary but unless the jackson estate gets any money from reruns of this episode it really is an empty gesture
    The speculation is that the Jackson estate does get paid each time the episode is seen. It is an empty gesture anyway, though.

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    good thing I have season 3 on dvd
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    太った猫😊 The Goode Family's Avatar
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    MICHAEL JACKSON INNOCENT!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovebender.com View Post
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    Release the Hounds Shoskin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Goode Family View Post
    MICHAEL JACKSON INNOCENT!!!
    Not anymore my friend. Right now it's guilty until proven innocent and Michael can't defend himself.

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    Well shit. I haven’t heard of this documentary, but it really sucks that they’re trying to remove all traces of the episode because of it. It really will be a “lost episode” of sorts. The only time I think they did anything like this before was with The City of New York vs. Homer Simpson after 9/11, and that re-entered circulation after a while. I can only hope that happens with this as well, but I’m not holding my breath. It’s not an especially great episode for its era, but that’s not the point!
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  21. #20


    They're full of shit for this.

    I'm starting to think the only reason they do stuff like this is to get attention. They don't care about the documentary or the allegations, because if they did, they would have done this years ago.

    It's especially laughable when you consider how badly they handled the Apu situation, but a documentary comes out and now they want to protect people from the big scary monster MJ being in one of their episodes? All this will do is make people want to seek it out more to see what all the fuss is about.


  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Nihilistic View Post
    They're full of shit for this.

    I'm starting to think the only reason they do stuff like this is to get attention. They don't care about the documentary or the allegations, because if they did, they would have done this years ago.

    It's especially laughable when you consider how badly they handled the Apu situation, but a documentary comes out and now they want to protect people from the big scary monster MJ being in one of their episodes? All this will do is make people want to seek it out more to see what all the fuss is about.
    Sadly, I have to agree with all of the above. It's a kneejerk response designed to avoid bad press from any media outlets that try to paint them as villains for even being associated with MJ. It's the Woody Allen situation all over again.

    People have serious problems in trying to disassociate the author from the work. I'm not going to stop listening to iconic MJ songs just because of the man's mistakes.

    Having said that, it was probably not a decision made by either Al Jean or any of the producers. In this case, it was probably a response directly from Fox. Of course, you won't see the Simpsons writers/producers disagreeing with this choice either, but they really don't have any authority to pull episodes from airing.


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    Junior Camper TheDuffBlimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Nihilistic View Post
    I'm starting to think the only reason they do stuff like this is to get attention.
    Except that they get attention for literally just existing.

  24. #23


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuffBlimp View Post
    Except that they get attention for literally just existing.
    I mean, media attention. Nobody's giving The Simpsons the time of day anymore, to the point where they get everybody talking about them. The only time they get that attention is through milestones (reaching 600 episodes, beating Gunsmoke), gimmicks ("Brick Like Me," "Every Man's Dream"), or controversies (the Apu situation, getting rid of "Stark Raving Dad").

    If none of these things happen, nobody cares about the show otherwise.

  25. #24
    Release the Hounds Shoskin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Nihilistic View Post
    I mean, media attention. Nobody's giving The Simpsons the time of day anymore, to the point where they get everybody talking about them. The only time they get that attention is through milestones (reaching 600 episodes, beating Gunsmoke), gimmicks ("Brick Like Me," "Every Man's Dream"), or controversies (the Apu situation, getting rid of "Stark Raving Dad").

    If none of these things happen, nobody cares about the show otherwise.
    Sad enough you are right. Other than the backlash from the sjw who think they speak for everyone, Fox has to look at it as a business POV and if 1. It cost them advertisement by losing sponsors and 2. Viewership from us, they are going to pull such epsidoes. The problem is they actually don't talk to us, the people who have been here from the beginning or viewer for a long time. Furthermore, unless Fox goes after YouTube or buys back all unpurchase Season 3 DVDs there really isn't much they can do about it. Plus people will always be able to find the episodes considered unworthy.


  26. #25
    Junior Camper TheDuffBlimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Nihilistic View Post
    I mean, media attention
    The goal of a tv show isn't to be in the news. They are in the news for the right reasons.
    Usually.

    That is all that matters.

  27. #26


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuffBlimp View Post
    The goal of a tv show isn't to be in the news. They are in the news for the right reasons.
    Usually.

    That is all that matters.
    First you say that people still give the show attention, and then you say that the end goal is not getting attention. So what's the goal? Quality? Because in 2019, The Simpsons fails on both counts.

    They're not in the news for the right reasons. No one was asking them to do this or supported the decision. There weren't articles coming out asking for a response from The Simpsons to Leaving Neverland. Matt Groening, James L. Brooks, and Al Jean all decided on their own to remove "Stark Raving Dad" from circulation. It's a great episode, but I don't think I've ever heard about people putting it on all-time lists and it doesn't get the same love as an episode like "Last Exit to Springfield" or "Rosebud." This decision made the episode return to the minds of many people, and raised its profile even higher because now, people will see it as this forbidden episode. The show tried capitalizing on a controversy and it backfired.

    Which is funny to me because when it came to Apu, the best the show could do is say the following: "Some things will be dealt with at a later date." "If at all."

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    Release the Hounds Shoskin's Avatar
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    So I guess 'Lisa's Subsitute' will be next on the chopping block since Hoffman has been accused of sexual misconduct.

  30. #28
    Junior Camper TheDuffBlimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Nihilistic View Post
    First you say that people still give the show attention, and then you say that the end goal is not getting attention. Those statements don't contradict each other.
    Plenty of things get attention without trying to.
    So what's the goal? Quality? Because in 2019, The Simpsons fails on both counts. Obviously just an opinion. They're not in the news for the right reasons. We both already made our positions on this clear. No one was asking them to do this or supported the decision. No one had to. They are the ones who control it, nobody else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Nihilistic View Post
    There weren't articles coming out asking for a response from The Simpsons to Leaving Neverland.
    It was clearly a preemptive measure. Who is to say whether or not there would have been backlash eventually?
    Last edited by TheDuffBlimp; 06-26-2019 at 09:09 PM.

  31. #29


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuffBlimp View Post
    It was clearly a preemptive measure. Who is to say whether or not there would have been backlash eventually?
    There wouldn't have been. Nobody was thinking about "Stark Raving Dad" before the producers came out and did what they did. A preemptive measure for what? To protect innocent people against this evil episode?

    You're acting like the show is courageous and taking a stand against something when that's not the case. This is an unprecedented decision. Never before have they gone as far as banning an episode because of what a guest star allegedly did. If they cared this much, they would have banned the episode in 1993 or 2003. This isn't new, groundbreaking information. Michael Jackson has been accused of child molestation on multiple occasions, and was involved in two cases where the family was discovered to be liars in the first case, and he was declared not guilty on 14 counts in the second case. The show's producers must have forgotten all of this happened like a lot of other people did.

    We've already seen what happens when The Simpsons is faced with modern-day controversies. The whole time they were under fire for Apu now being looked at as a problematic stereotype, they were like, "People are too sensitive. We don't think he's offensive. Maybe we'll do something about it, maybe we won't." And their response never changed except for what Hank Azaria said. Now, instead of silently removing the episode, or just choosing to no longer promote or celebrate it, they had to come out with a big public statement like the whole world was waiting on what they might do? They knew the talk it would generate, and people saw right through it. Even people who believe MJ was guilty didn't agree with getting rid of the episode.

    Like it or not, they were full of shit when they did this and acting like this was a noble decision on their part is just playing mental gymnastics.


  32. #30
    Junior Camper TheDuffBlimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Nihilistic View Post
    There wouldn't have been.
    Literally impossible to know.
    There are over 7 billion people in this world who aren't you.
    You are not the final word on anything.

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