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  1. #181
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    Looks like I will be seeing the finale tomorrow so expect my thoughts to be posted then; really looking forward to it. I'm glad to hear they managed to construct a fairly satisfying end to the show (even if it's not a stellar one) and your suggested ways of improving this last season all seem reasonable and good to me. Your rankings of the season seem all right as well.

  2. #182
    Stonecutter John95's Avatar
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    @CousinMerl, Yeah in terms of finales I've seen, it's no Sozin's Comet, Weirdmageddon or Destination Imagination (Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends; and it's often debated whether this or Goodbye to Bloo is the show's actual finale), but at least it's not a Phantom Planet (Danny Phantom; and honestly it's more subpar than outright bad) or what I consider to be the worst of the worst, Lies, Cries and One Big Prize (Total Drama; and it wasn't until more than four years after it aired that it was confirmed as such with the abrupt announcement that there are currently no plans for the original TD series past the season where that episode was from).

    Also not to go too off topic, but nice pick for your current profile image! I gotta jump into that show's thread eventually.
    Family Guy Season 18 Ratings - Yacht Rocky: 1.5/5 Bri-Da: 2.5/5 Absolutely Babulous: 1.5/5 Disney's The Reboot: 1.5/5 Cat Fight: 1.5/5 Peter & Lois' Wedding: .5/5 Heart Burn: 1.5/5 Shanksgiving: .5/5 Christmas is Coming: 2/5 Connie's Celica: 0/5 Short Cuts: 2/5 Undergrounded: 1.5/5 Rich Old Stewie: 3.5/5 The Movement: .5/5 Baby Stewie: 0/5 Start Me Up: 1/5 Coma Guy: 1/5 Better Off Meg: .5/5 Holy Bibble: 0/5 Movin' In (Principal Shepherd's Song): 0/5
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  3. #183
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    @John95, I don't want to go too off-topic myself, but I was not expecting you to mention the 'Fosters' TV movie finale (I think it can be counted as the finale) as one of the good ones (the only show of those aside from 'Avatar' & 'Gravity Falls' I've seen; not all episodes but many), as I keep seeing a lot of hate of that show online, with many saying that the pilot was good & the rest was bad.

    Also, thanks for the words about my avatar (one of my favorite characters, if you didn't figure it out). I'm guessing you've seen at least some episodes & I hope to hear your thoughts the show and the episodes in its thread at some point.

    But anyway, will return to this thread once I've seen the finale.
    Last edited by CousinMerl; 03-02-2020 at 11:01 AM.

  4. #184
    GO PADRES (HOPEFULLY)! D DEBBS's Avatar
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    ONLY thing I liked was the ending....satisfied that Cassandra decided to go off on her own instead of staying in Corona.

    Rest of the ep.......gawd, it was so annoying!!!! Did not like the secondary characters trapped in that Alice In Wonderland-like world (unnecessary) and everything else except Rapunzel and Cassandra's show-down was a waste to me.

    Cassandra was the ONLY character on the show that I liked due to her sarcastic nature (I liked how she dealt with Eugene; i, too, find him a complete fraud who tries to get what he wants without working hard for it)-wish Disney didn't turn her into a villian; trhey could have had her and Rapunzel deal with Zhan Kiri themselves.

    The secondary characters with maybe the exception of Valarian (he was an interesting villian until Disney changed him to good) are sooooo obnoxious and are as funny as Fozzie Bear on the Muppet Show trying to be funny. Got on my nerves and made me kept a constant watch on my clock-radio waiting for the show to end.

    All in all.....rather wished I tuned in for the ending which was worthwhile and not watched the beginning and the middle.

    Oh, yes: like I said-Cassandra's the ONLY character I like...she was the one who made me tune in week after week.....Rapunzel is too insuffably perky a la Flo from the Progressive Insurance ads for me.

  5. #185
    seems weird and scary GlitterCat's Avatar
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    I actually like the secondary cast so it warmed my heart that Lance officially adopted the girls and Varian got the boilers working with his father's help. I still think it took too long for Cass to truly repent and switch sides and some of the comedic moments felt forced but overall I liked the finale and the series in general.

  6. #186
    Truly Outrageous ! Tilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D DEBBS View Post
    (I liked how she dealt with Eugene; i, too, find him a complete fraud who tries to get what he wants without working hard for it)-wish Disney didn't turn her into a villian; trhey could have had her and Rapunzel deal with Zhan Kiri themselves.
    Never been on keen on Eugene either, just that manipulative smugness that he has throughout most of the original film. Rapunzel is very fortunate that she didn't get a Prince Hans situation. I loved Cassandra for that reason as well. However, I wouldn't fully say that she was made into a villain, more like a puppet.
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  7. #187
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    So there we go, I've watched 'Plus Est En Vous' (now that's quite the title) and it was most certainly a fine enough finale. It closed the series on a good note and wrapped up the plot threads and characters it needed to and it was a fun and enjoyable time. It's not one of the very best season finales (Something like 'Sozin's Comet' is hard to reach up to, let alone beat) but all in all, it was a very good one.

    Long post ahead and Spoilers as before (I might also do some editing later).

    I really liked the beginning with Eugene doing a recap on the Cass business and her transformation from friend to enemy (setting the stage well with a reminder, plus letting those who came in late catch up with the important stuff). The first scene with Rapunzel and her mother Queen Arianna at the rock slab by the sea (where the former got her magical hair back at the start of the series) and the latter talking about her stormy relationship with her sister Willow was a good way to start & I quite enjoyed the following sequence with their horse ride across the land to the pub (where the rest of the good guys are waiting) with the nice touch of a instrumental version of the main theme ('Wind In My Hair').

    The scene at the pub was a good one & Rapunzel getting all of them going with a song they participate in was a great moment, that with the song ('Through It All') being a nice one (it reminded me of 'Ready As I'll Ever Be' from the first season's finale and a little of the first section of 'La Resistance' from the South Park movie). At first I thought it was odd (or an error) that Qurin, Varian's father, was at the pub (as he's in the Brotherhood and clearly got mind controlled like the other two), but then they touched upon it with Eugene noticing the Brotherhood mark on the man's hand and becomes worried (which (and in the next scene he brings it up to Varian in an downplayed way; Varian responds in denial that his dad is fine and Eugene backs off and regrets bringing it up and doesn't tell Rapunzel. That was a little contrived, but eh, maybe just a nitpick).

    Good continuation with Varian informing Rapunzel and Eugene about Lord Demanitus and the weapon the latter had and used to lock Zhan Tiri away in an netherworld with a machine (which the good guys could use) and they go to Demanitus's tomb (along with Lance as well as Kiera & Catalina) to get the instruction to build a new one. That was an interesting setting, with the temple inside with a bit tropical environment where a bunch of monkey's live (which explains Demanitus as Vigor the Visionary). There was a bit much silly filler with a monkey stealing the book & Lance messing around with this body swap laser cannon (which was a bit too sci-fi) and ends up swapping most of his friends souls with monkey's by accident and having to swap them back, but luckily it didn't go on for too long and the episode got back on track.

    The bits with Cass (lashing out angrily in her old room) and Zhan Tiri in the wrecked Demanitus chamber were good and nice montage with the good guys all helping Varian to construct this machine to trap Zhan while Rapunzel plans for them to get it and them all inside the castle). The Rapunzel and Eugene bit was sweet & good one with Varian and Qurin. All of them storming inside the castle was a good sequence (also, kind of funny with how the machine looks like a Stargate). Quirins brainwashing kicking in and him getting stunned due to Varian having put in an fail-safe in his dad's helmet was a surprise (good that Varian took Eugene's words at heart). All of them aside from Eugene, King Edmund and his raven & Rapunzel being sucked into the portal was interesting, if an easy way to keep them away from the action for a while.

    Rapunzel going to look for Cass and coming across Zhan and Rapunzel resisting with all her power and really awakening her power was neat & the sundrop-weakening eclipse happening reminded me of 'Avatar: The Last Airbender'. Her heartfelt song about her friend (and the reminiscense flashbacks) was touching. Cass turning against Zhan before going to face the princess alone was not a surprise (I had been waiting for that moment) & the flashback of the villain and Demanitus (in which we see her getting trapped in the Lost Realm) was a good bit to see. We get to see Zhan's old woman form and Vigor as a baby monkey (who wore diapers even back then), but I think this scene could've been nice in an previous episode (and it felt like a late addition).

    The Lost Realm was a good way to do some weird visual gags with Varian, Lance & the others trapped there, but it was essentially pointless padding. Eugene and Edmund fighting the Brotherhood members Quirin and Hector & going to destroy the mind controling rock at Cass' tower & Eugene pitted against Adira, Hector and Edmund (who is also under the rock's mind spell) was intriguing (I must say Quirin and Edmund were good at having faked not being mind controlled). Eugene getting beaten up was kinda violent (his partially swollen face), Maximus being heroic was a fun bit & Edmund actually destroying the stone with his axe and releasing the brotherhood was something I did not expect (maybe a bit contrived as the mind control seemed so strong previously but I can buy that). Then they get the rest out of the Realm, ending that plot.

    Rapunzel and Cass meeting was an intense scene with them wrestling with their words and their stones reacting when facing each other, culminating with the final battle we've been waiting for. The eclipse blocking Rapunzels power to give Cass the upper hand (again) made it interesting (and again brought my thoughts to 'Avatar', with the eclipse blocking the Firebenders' power). Cass ripping out Rapunzel's stone (turning her normal with the natural brown hair) & Cass then losing her own stone to Zhan (who takes both stones) happened a little quickly but it worked & Zhan transforms into her demon form fueled by the two stones for the climax. Good finale stuff with the castle falling apart and breaking the portal machine & the big bad going to unleash her evil & Cass and Rapunzel making up and reconnecting their friendship while trapped was a nice scene, if maybe a little drawn out (considering Zhan was wreaking havoc and all that).

    I liked how Rapunzel's friends, family and allies all staying to take on the villain the best they could even if it did nothing (I wish they gave Catalina an badass moment in her werewolf form, but instead they had her immediately swatted aside). Zhan doing the destruction incantation and killing the land and everyone was a good "Oh crap" moment & Rapunzel and Cass escaping their entrapment by using a small Moonstone shard still stuck to Cass and it giving Rapunzel her golden hair power back temporarily was neat. The following fight of Rapunzel vs. Zhan (with help from Cass) I enjoyed (finally the two women are back together, fighting side by side. The way Rapunzel used a rubber band effect on Zhan to have the stones crash into each other when the demon's wrists (that keep the stones) slap together after she cuts off her hair was creative & all the black rocks vanishing was rewarding, as was Zhan getting destroyed by the stones.

    Cass perishing was an dramatic choice & Rapunzel bringing her back with the joined stones and the healing encantation, which she also uses on her friends and family whose lives Zhan took (essentially going into this Avatar state) before the stone shoots out far into space was predictable (aside from that last thing) but it was still a good scene & and cute end bit with Rapunzel, Eugene & Cass in a group hug. I liked the epilogue with the three(especially Cass and Eugene being friends now), but I'm not overly fond of Cassandra being forgiven for her deeds; I think the writers could have come up with something, such as a time limited banishment, unless that's what was implied with Cass saying goodbye and heading out into the world, dressed in an new green outfit; a good look). I think they could have done something different with Cass at the end as it felt, well, a bit cheap in a sense but I was fine with it.

    Anyway, ending on an reprise of 'Life After Happily Ever After' from the pilot episode was a good way to close it (and I liked the bit of Rapunzel being reminded of past events happening in the throne room) & Eugene narrating (with some additional thoughts by Rapunzel) the bookend with what became of the prominent characters in the end was as the story should have ended (complete with a shot of the more or less major characters and a few others, aside from Cass, of course) from so I was satisfied with that (my favorite of the moments was Lance adopting Catalina and Kiera, the latter of whom Eugene still refers to as Angry). I also liked the romantic bonus scene of Rapunzel and Eugene in the small boat, which also stars a special cupcake; I really liked how they did that scene with the proposal they've been building up to since the start of the series).

    The episode was not perfect as it had some problems, like some moments that were unnecessary or treaded into padding territory (such as the monkey scene & the Lost Realm subplot which could have been left to our imagination), some forced silly parts and other bits I didn't care for (like the unfunny recurring joke about giving Eugene a silly nickname) and a bit much back and forth with Rapunzel against Cass (now Rapunzel has the upper hand, now she is defeated and Cass has the upper hand, now Rapunzel escapes and gets the upper hand, now she is defeated again and Cass has the upper hand; it just felt repetitive) & at times it felt a little too overstuffed and the story cutting back and forth between several plot threads got a little messy (maybe they should have had some more work done to the script? Some cutting and trimming of the excess fat would've been great.)

    Even so, it still came together fine and despite the flaws it was good and satisfying last chapter: a good end that did leave me with a good feeling after it ended (and after SvTFoE had such a sloppy end this was a relief). This has been an very entertaining series overall and well worth watching. Great job, 'Tangled' crew (I'd like to see another project by them in the future). Good one and two thumbs up.
    Last edited by CousinMerl; 03-05-2020 at 02:55 PM.

  8. #188
    Stonecutter John95's Avatar
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    @CousinMerl, Glad to see you liked it too even though we can both agree that it's not the best at least it was satisfying enough.

    I must say Quirin and Edmund were good at having faked not being mind controlled
    It was speculated before the episode aired that the former would be used as a sleeper agent of sorts and that pretty much ended up being true, but yeah the latter definitely caught me off guard.

    the flashback of the villain and Demanitus (in which we see her getting trapped in the Lost Realm) was a good bit to see. We get to see Zhan's old woman form and Vigor as a baby monkey (who wore diapers even back then), but I think this scene could've been nice in an previous episode (and it felt like a late addition.
    I suppose they were saving this scene for now since this the point when we get to hear Tara Fitzgerald as Zhan Tiri. Also quick aside, I thought it was odd that Jennifer Veal was still being credited as Enchanted Girl even after she was revealed to be Zhan Tiri.

    I wish they gave Catalina an badass moment in her werewolf form, but instead they had her immediately swatted aside
    And this is why I'm glad that such instance like this didn't happen in Cassandra's Revenge as it put me on edge the thought of her being harmed since she's just a child.

    I'm not overly fond of Cassandra being forgiven for her deeds; I think the writers could have come up with something, such as a time limited banishment, unless that's what was implied with Cass saying goodbye and heading out into the world... I think they could have done something different with Cass at the end as it felt, well, a bit cheap in a sense but I was fine with it.
    You know, saying this makes me think that part of her reason for leaving might be that she might feel some shame for what she's done and staying in her former home would just remind her of the awful thing's she's done. An even cheaper way they could've done it was to just keep her dead at the end which as I mentioned a few weeks back would've been the worst option. And since you mentioned SvtFoE I'll once again say that this was still handled far better than Moon's turn then redemption mostly because that was all in the span of about an episode or two and there was a slow buildup to Cass taking the moonstone (even if I still thought it could've been handled slightly better) and her reasons for doing so were understandable whereas Moon's motives made her look stupid and contradicted past episodes.

    some moments that were unnecessary or treaded into padding territory (such as the monkey scene & the Lost Realm subplot which could have been left to our imagination).
    Yeah, this is what I meant by how the extra time the episode was allotted was hit or miss in terms of how they used it. The stuff in the netherworld could've been shortened as the novelty of it pretty much wore off after the first scene or two, and the cutbacks they made to it between the stuff at Cass' tower and the castle were intrusive.

    Great job, 'Tangled' crew (I'd like to see another project by them in the future).
    There is already a bit of high demand for a spinoff series following Cass as she travels the world searching for her destiny. And obviously I would be fully open to it should it ever come to be.

    And now for my comments:
    * Well, my previous theory about the origins of Zhan Tiri's current form post-Cassandra's Revenge through now proved to be inaccurate. And thanks to dialogue said during the netherworld scene it's implied that her little girl self was a result of her being in the netherworld for so long.
    * At first I assumed that Rapunzel feeling lightheaded as the eclipse began was a result of the potion Cassandra used on her in the previous episode having a greater effect besides knocking her out
    * Cass leaving... This was what I was talking about in regards to the element of the ending that I don't like (mostly for how bittersweet it is) but I understand why it's come to be this way. I've been telling myself repeatedly that she's clearly happy this way and the show even points out that it's for the best for her as staying in Corona just would've gotten her nowhere in life and she's clearly moved past becoming captain of the guard... But I still can't help but feel sad. This also indirectly makes Rapunzel a more relatable character for me as like I her I had to sadly say goodbye to my best friend in real life... Though unlike here where it's due to said best friend leaving for me it was due to her life being cut way too short (in August it'll be five years since she passed). What I just said also applies for the recurring thread during the first half of the season of Rapunzel going through the hardship of losing her best friend.
    * Not sure about you, but it felt like there were several things being built up throughout the season that would be paid off by now only to be cut short due to them pretty much running out of time. The two examples I can think of both have to do with Cass:

    1. Her burnt hand. I kept anticipating/dreading it's eventual return with the likeliness of it having spread across her entire arm. And as I'm typing this, even though we never see it I think maybe it might've been healed when Rapunzel used the healing incantation on her.
    2. Did you pick up how several times throughout the season there were objects associated with Cass that were damaged in the upper left (our right) corner, or how her left eye would either be blocked or have a gleam of light shimmer in it? Based on some concept art for her that was revealed right after Destinies Collide (which I can't seem to find at the moment), one was for potential looks for her hair after she grabbed the moonstone and one of them shows her with one blue eye and one green eye. I assumed that this was to be the result of the moonstone being pulled out of her as it's more unstable than the sundrop.

    And on a more lighter note, here are my headcanons for why the characters on the show aren't at the wedding (besides Cass):
    * Edmund and the brotherhood: Just too far away for them to make the trip.
    * Hookfoot: Must've had a falling out with his brother since he is at the wedding.
    * Stan & Pete: On duty.
    * Everyone else: Invites must've gotten lost in the mail.

  9. #189
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    @John95

    You know, saying this makes me think that part of her reason for leaving might be that she might feel some shame for what she's done and staying in her former home would just remind her of the awful thing's she's done. An even cheaper way they could've done it was to just keep her dead at the end which as I mentioned a few weeks back would've been the worst option.
    Yeah, an self-imposed exile of sorts (born out of shame and regret) makes perfect sense and it would seem that's what they aimed for (if not what I suggested).

    There is already a bit of high demand for a spinoff series following Cass as she travels the world searching for her destiny. And obviously I would be fully open to it should it ever come to be.
    You know, after having watched this finale, an sequel series about the following adventures of Cass was maybe the first next series project I was thinking of & I would really like if that came to fruition. Also, maybe it's just me but I'd like to see an 'Frozen' series by the crew (I think that movie could just as easily translate into a series and it'd be neat to see Elsa & Co in the same 2D storybook art style).

    * Well, my previous theory about the origins of Zhan Tiri's current form post-Cassandra's Revenge through now proved to be inaccurate. And thanks to dialogue said during the netherworld scene it's implied that her little girl self was a result of her being in the netherworld for so long.
    They never touched upon why Zhan had her age regressed, but I interpreted it the way that the more power she lost while in the Lost Realm, her age regressed until she only had minimal power.

    * Cass leaving... This was what I was talking about in regards to the element of the ending that I don't like (mostly for how bittersweet it is) but I understand why it's come to be this way. I've been telling myself repeatedly that she's clearly happy this way and the show even points out that it's for the best for her as staying in Corona just would've gotten her nowhere in life and she's clearly moved past becoming captain of the guard... But I still can't help but feel sad. This also indirectly makes Rapunzel a more relatable character for me as like I her I had to sadly say goodbye to my best friend in real life... Though unlike here where it's due to said best friend leaving for me it was due to her life being cut way too short (in August it'll be five years since she passed). What I just said also applies for the recurring thread during the first half of the season of Rapunzel going through the hardship of losing her best friend.
    That was a touching story. Thanks for sharing (now I understand even better why you like Cass so much). Also, regarding the exit of Cass, I think they handled it quite well all things considered. Even though her getting resurrected by Rapunzel was predictable I'm glad she did not stay dead, not even for the sake of her absence in that 'Tangled Ever After' short (speaking of which, I haven't seen that one yet so I'd better do that soon. I wanted to wait until after I completed the series as I think I've said before).

    * Not sure about you, but it felt like there were several things being built up throughout the season that would be paid off by now only to be cut short due to them pretty much running out of time. The two examples I can think of both have to do with Cass:

    1. Her burnt hand. I kept anticipating/dreading it's eventual return with the likeliness of it having spread across her entire arm. And as I'm typing this, even though we never see it I think maybe it might've been healed when Rapunzel used the healing incantation on her.
    2. Did you pick up how several times throughout the season there were objects associated with Cass that were damaged in the upper left (our right) corner, or how her left eye would either be blocked or have a gleam of light shimmer in it? Based on some concept art for her that was revealed right after Destinies Collide (which I can't seem to find at the moment), one was for potential looks for her hair after she grabbed the moonstone and one of them shows her with one blue eye and one green eye. I assumed that this was to be the result of the moonstone being pulled out of her as it's more unstable than the sundrop.
    On your 1st point, I think that it might have gotten healed in the process like you said but it was not confirmed (they could have had Cass pull of her glove and see it was gone). Kind of reminds me of the unicorn horn stabbing in the SvTFoE finale in a sense (which seemed like it was going to be a big deal but then was suddenly gone like it was no biggie).

    On your 2nd point, I don't think I picked up on the recurring aspect of the left side connection. There so many things going on during this season so it was hard to catch every detal, but now that I think of it I think I have noticed a few times how many of the Cass-related scenes had sort of a left side focus in a sense this season, such as those were she was up front on the screen. That Behind The Scenes information is interesting and it does make sense that they would've planned that initially.

    And on a more lighter note, here are my headcanons for why the characters on the show aren't at the wedding (besides Cass):
    * Edmund and the brotherhood: Just too far away for them to make the trip.
    * Hookfoot: Must've had a falling out with his brother since he is at the wedding.
    * Stan & Pete: On duty.
    * Everyone else: Invites must've gotten lost in the mail.
    All of those sound good, especially the last one, haha.

    Speaking of Hookfoot, I expected him to show up again at the and of this finale (maybe at the end as an "I'm back! What have I missed?" joke) but he was left out, as was Willow (but I guess her getting namedropped twice was good enough; loved that bit about the gifted Uumlaut vase which that Rapunzel tells Cass to spare and the latter immediately obliges. That was really funny).
    Last edited by CousinMerl; 03-03-2020 at 02:27 PM.

  10. #190
    Stonecutter John95's Avatar
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    @CousinMerl,
    I haven't seen that one yet so I'd better do that soon. I wanted to wait until after I completed the series as I think I've said before
    It actually is on YouTube so it isn't that hard to find.

    Kind of reminds me of the unicorn horn stabbing in the SvTFoE finale in a sense (which seemed like it was going to be a big deal but then was suddenly gone like it was no biggie).
    Well, at least they did initially make a big deal about the hand (Rapunzel: Day One) and how it played a part in Cass' descent into villainy (Zhan Tiri reminding her of it in the stinger of Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?).

    loved that bit about the gifted Uumlaut vase which that Rapunzel tells Cass to spare and the latter immediately obliges. That was really funny
    And even after she throws the rest of the vases, that one is still in one piece!

    Also, after a bit of looking I found that piece of concept art for potential looks for Cass after she took the moonstone, one of which having her with two different colored eyes: https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Desti..._concept_3.jpg

    Additionally, I found the storyboards for a scene from the finale that was ultimately left on the cutting room floor: https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Rvf5zDE7u/

  11. #191
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    @John95

    Point taken about how they didn't play up the charred hand a lot beforehand, unlike the the stabbing by unicorn bit in the finale of the abeformentioned show which they hinted at would be a serious problem but then it was promptly forgotten about and at the end the wound was completely gone (which I guess could be said about Cass' hand as well as it was forgotten about, but I assume it got healed once Cass took the moonstone and got its power. It felt more palatably handled and not like something they just threw in as a "last minute" shocking moment).

    I saw that deleted storyboard scene posted on Instagram earlier today and thought of posting it. I liked that bit, not just because of it being an extra Cass scene but also gave Hector a something to say (at the moment I actually don't recall him speaking the finished episode). Maybe it was an superfluous scene but I'd rather have seen it completed and included & had the monkey business scene trimmed down instead. What do you think?

    That concept art of Cass with the different eyes is pretty neat and I think that would've worked and made sense (as it would've symbolized both sides of her, both the moonstone-powered one and her former self). I wonder why they left that out but I can guess they dropped it because it meant an extra detail to keep track of and it wasn't worth the effort or something. Your guess is as good as mine.

    Also, would you like to see that Cass' sequel that a lot of fans want? And how does an theoretical 'Frozen: The Series' by the 'Tangled' crew sound like?
    Last edited by CousinMerl; 03-05-2020 at 02:19 AM.

  12. #192
    Stonecutter John95's Avatar
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    @CousinMerl,

    I assume it got healed once Cass took the moonstone and got its power
    The aforementioned stinger always gave me the impression that it was still burnt, and during the finale when Cass is stripped of the moonstone and returned to normal at first I thought her now blackened glove was actually the burn.

    I liked that bit, not just because of it being an extra Cass scene but also gave Hector a something to say (at the moment I actually don't recall him speaking the finished episode). Maybe it was an superfluous scene but I'd rather have seen it completed and included & had the monkey business scene trimmed down instead. What do you think?
    I definitely would've preferred that scene be left in over one of the redundant cuts to the netherworld. And I believe Hector actually had at least a line in the episode.

    I wonder why they left that out but I can guess they dropped it because it meant an extra detail to keep track of and it wasn't worth the effort or something. Your guess is as good as mine.
    If it was meant to be what would've happened when the moonstone was removed, then I think it can be chalked up to them dropping what was clearly meant to be a bigger deal but ran out of time to capitalize on it, and didn't tell the animators that it was no longer gonna be important hence the foreshadowing being left in but with no payoff.

    would you like to see that Cass' sequel that a lot of fans want? And how does an theoretical 'Frozen: The Series' by the 'Tangled' crew sound like?
    I think I said yesterday that yes I would like to see that spinoff with Cass should it ever come to fruition. And I suppose a Frozen series would be alright, though I'd prefer the former.

  13. #193
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    @John95

    The aforementioned stinger always gave me the impression that it was still burnt, and during the finale when Cass is stripped of the moonstone and returned to normal at first I thought her now blackened glove was actually the burn.
    I forgot about that one stinger scene where they referred to it earlier in the season. I guess we can chalk that one up as something that was forgotten about, at least in the grand scheme of things, as it wasn't brought up later, though in the epilogue Cass was wearing different gloves on each hand, with the right and burned one being clad in a grey one (that one's gotta be intentional).

    I definitely would've preferred that scene be left in over one of the redundant cuts to the netherworld. And I believe Hector actually had at least a line in the episode.
    The unnecessary Netherworld/Lost Realm subplot could have been trimmed down or removed entirely to make room for that scene. Also, I too recall Hector speaking at least once, if only briefly.

    If it was meant to be what would've happened when the moonstone was removed, then I think it can be chalked up to them dropping what was clearly meant to be a bigger deal but ran out of time to capitalize on it, and didn't tell the animators that it was no longer gonna be important hence the foreshadowing being left in but with no payoff.
    Well, they didn't go with the different eye colors in the final product (as that was only concept art) so they didn't have to think about it and maybe it was for the best since they had quite a bit of story elements to juggle and it would've been one extra thing to keep check of. It would have been kinda unnecessary in a sense, even though it would have heightened the sense of duality of the character.

    I think I said yesterday that yes I would like to see that spinoff with Cass should it ever come to fruition. And I suppose a Frozen series would be alright, though I'd prefer the former.
    True, you did infer to that. I too would prefer that as their next project, but I'm guessing that it would be a few years away, if at all. Maybe in that show they could explore whom her biological father is? I'm guessing that's one aspect that fans would very much like to see.

    Also, on the topic on the humor and references, did you catch the reference to 'The Lion King' during the action? It really caught me off guard (being really sudden and out of nowhere) and made me laugh.

  14. #194
    Stonecutter John95's Avatar
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    @CousinMerl

    did you catch the reference to 'The Lion King' during the action? It really caught me off guard (being really sudden and out of nowhere) and made me laugh.
    You mean how Hector is pushed into the lake the same way Banazi got pushed into that field of cactus's? Yep, sure did. They definitely love their classic Disney animation references!

  15. #195
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    @John95, that's the one. I too remember they did make some other references to the Disney Animated Features throughout the series so yeah, they do like to make those.

    Also, I think he fell into a very small gorge (or rather crack) with a puddle of water at the bottom and not a lake. I liked how at first they made the crack look deep but once he went into it, it was really no more than a few feet deep.

  16. #196
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    Just for completion's sake, I'm adding my thoughts on the sequel short 'Tangled Ever After', which I viewed earlier this weea:

    Overall, it's a good and fun little short film. Nice little simple story set during Rapunzel's and Eugene's wedding day & Maximus and Pascal accidentally losing the wedding rings and quickly having to go on an hasty quest of getting them back. There was some nice visual gags and even though it's just meant to be a fun little joke short it's an nice little extra extension of the film (sort of like an longer post-credits scene) and as of now also a sequel short to the concluded series.

    Aside from many characters from the show being absent (understandable since this one came out in 2012 and the show 5 years later) I think it fits into the continuity pretty well (also, I noticed that Hook Hand has the same outfit as he did in his episode in the series) with nothing that directly dates it (well, maybe aside from the Stabbington brothers being in chains when it seemed like they were no longer enemies after the events of the episode 'Return Of The King' and maybe reformed as they never reappeared since, though I guess they fell back to crime; in hindsight it would've been cool if they were among the friends and allies helping out in the end, side by side with Eugene, maybe?).

    I hope that the end of the show doesn't mean of everything 'Tangled' related, even outside of that possible sequel series. Hopefully there might still be some shorts and specials down the line. The show and the character are definitely worthy of being followed up on.
    Last edited by CousinMerl; 03-15-2020 at 02:36 PM.

  17. #197
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    @CousinMerl

    Aside from many characters from the show being absent (understandable since this one came out in 2012 and the show 5 years later)
    Before the finale, I envisioned that in the series the cake cart would've been stopped by the characters introduced in the series showing up like "What'd we miss?". A little cheap, but hey it would've managed to work them in there.

    I noticed that Hook Hand has the same outfit as he did in his episode in the series
    I didn't realize that until now. But yeah, throughout the series there were several Call-Forwards to this including (at least the ones I noticed):
    * Pascal & Max chasing after the tiara during Stronger Than Ever from Rapunzel's Return.
    * The sash Eugene receives at the end of Return of the King is the same one he wears here.
    * Rapunzel's ring from Cassandra's Revenge and Eugene's from the finale are the same ones in the short.

    maybe aside from the Stabbington brothers being in chains when it seemed like they were no longer enemies after the events of the episode 'Return Of The King' and maybe reformed as they never reappeared since, though I guess they fell back to crime
    As I said when that episode originally aired, if their goal was to have it be that they'd reformed at the end, then they didn't really do a good job at making that come across clearly enough.

    I hope that the end of the show doesn't mean of everything 'Tangled' related
    There is a live action... Something Tangled related that's in the works, but knowing Disney's track record with live action remakes (if it is one) most people from what I've seen are treating it as "Yeah, we're not talking about that".


    And since I'm here, I'll mention that podcast again that I've brought up before as when they discussed Once a Handmaiden... it concluded with a Q&A with Cassandra's VA Eden Espinosa (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjTC8kyhOWE&t=4s Q&A portion begins at around 39 minutes in) Here are some of the highlights from it:

    * Cass is not only popular among the show's fanbase, but also among the crewmembers at Mercury Filmworks (the production house in Ontario that provided the show's animation). In fact, some of the questions asked came from them.
    * Once Eden was locked in as Cass, she was essentially told of her character's entire arc from beginning to end as the show was already fully mapped out by then.
    * One of Eden's favorite episodes to do was Rapunzel and the Great Tree, citing how it marked a turning point for Cassandra as well as Waiting in the Wings.
    * The hardest parts Eden had to record for Cass mostly came from Season 3 as they kept having to tread carefully with not making her too evil or (in her own words) bitchy.

    Also when the podcast discussed the finale there was some behind the scenes info revealed (obviously they have connections to various members of the people working on the series):

    * The journey to Demanitus' tomb originally went on a little longer which included a brief scene of Kiera & Catalina playing in the snow and Max decking Eugene with a snowball, to which the latter would lampshade how it's possible for a horse to form one.
    * The ending originally had everyone temporarily dying excluding Rapunzel (and Pascal). And the way this was worded made it sound as though this was changed to only Cassandra due to Executive Meddling. To an extent, I can sorta understand where they're coming from as that would've meant Kiera, Catalina and Varian (actual children) also died and that would've been considered too grim and depressing, even if it was only temporarily.

  18. #198
    Have Brain, Will Travel Wile E. the Brain's Avatar
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    Hey you guys. So once again I've been pretty busy (and not that much in a good mood) those last weeks, and once again I'm really late regarding my thoughts. Hopefully you didn't think something bad happened to me, aha. But seriously, recently, because of the Covid virus affair, all schools and university in my country closed for an undetermined period, so I've got a bit more time than I had before currently. So I'll probably talk about the finale (and the last The Owl House and The Casagrandes episodes I haven't talked about yet) really soon. I read your reviews about this episode and I think there's something interesting about it, hope that I can add something to the debate.

  19. #199
    Have Brain, Will Travel Wile E. the Brain's Avatar
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    So two weeks later, let's talk about this final episode. Does it hold a candle to the series, which overall was a very nice one ? Was it less disappointing than the SvtFoE finale (last time I'll talk about it, I swear) ? First of all, I must say that I was a little surprised to see that this final episode only has one writer, usually I believe there's a team work over these kind of final episode, but oh well.

    Anyway, it started off pretty well, with a nice recap done by Eugene as usual (really like that running gag if I can call it like that), a sweet scene between Rapunzel and her mother and the scene at the pub which is immediatly followed by a good song; I think I said it earlier but I'm not a fan of the songs of this series overall, but this one was enjoyable to me and like Merl said, it has a nice "Ready As I'll Ever Be" vibe. Also Eugene saying to Varian "No offense" when Rapunzel qualifies Zhan Tiri as the biggest threat that ever happened to Corona got a good chuckle out of me. The travel to get the weapon that will help them to get rid of Zhan Tiri once and for all was fine as well, some good jokes here and there (Rapunzel's "I've said too much") but the filler part is noticeable with all this body swap mix-up. Besides the enjoyable silliness of seeing Rapunzel trapped into a monkey's body and vice versa, it wasn't that much worth it, or it could've been an episode of its own, instead of being a part of the final episode.

    But I didn't mind it that much either. The pacing was overall fine. That doesn't mean there weren't useless bits, and the gang being stuck in the netherworld is a good example of that. I mean, that's a funny part ("Welcome to my world"; I never was that much of a Shorty fan but he had some really funny moments these last episodes, I forgot to talk about it but in Once a Handmaiden..., when he appears right behind Zhan Tiri, it was one of my biggest laughs in front of any episode of this series), as well as having a delightfully weird and creative imagery, but let's be honest, it's pointless, the suspense about the possibility to have irreversible consequences if they stay too long into this lost realm fell flat and it doesn't add anything. Like I said it didn't that much bothered me since I believe the pacing of the important stuff of this episode was overall pretty good, but I also believe that a little more extra time for it could've been useful. (Oh, and the "You're my best buddy" call-back is hilarious, and appropriate considering the weird set-up of both of these scenes.)

    Regarding that important stuff, by the way, all about Rapunzel, Cassandra and Zhan Tiri was done pretty efficiently in my opinion. The fight between the two girls is pretty awesome to watch (also yeah that vase joke was really funny; Cassandra still has standards apparently) and the drama is good enough. Still a bit hesitant regarding Cass' attitude but they did well with what they had and with the routine they decided to go into. Eugene against the Brotherhood was a nice addition, I really like how he's not ready to give up against them despite being far weaker than they are. His little scene where he tries to get his father out of the mind control was a nice conclusion between them, despite the fact that I'm still not a fan of the fact they had to give Eugene such an important character as his father.

    Back to Cass and Raps, almost all of their scenes were kinda intense and well done. Then, Zhan Tiri shows up to steal both stones and to have her evil demon powers fully unleashed. I believe that the scene with the two girls trapped and Cassandra bringing all of this on herself is a powerful scene, one of the most powerful of the show, dare I say (props to Eden Espinosa to make this scene even sadder and even more touching). Despite the hit-or-miss writing of her character all throughout this season, I think it was worth it since this scene shows perfectly how torned apart of a character she was. Also, the thing I said about Eugene against the Brotherhood also goes to Corona's fellows against Zhan Tiri (though I can't really buy that the latter couldn't easily get rid of them). By the way, a design detail that I like about Zhan Tiri's final form is the fact that each of her eyes has the color of one of the stones. They could do more with Catalina as a werewolf, though.

    So here comes the final fight between Rapunzel and Zhan Tiri, and once again, it's well done, Raps and Cass being reunited as friends is satisfying, and, well, the frying pan joke was kinda anticlimactic but I still enjoy the call-back (and Zhan's face sold it to me). The way Zhan Tiri is defeated was really good though (even if a bit easy to say that Cass might actually saved Raps' life when she took the moon stone before her; I guess it was a way to say that somehow, she didn't only do bad things and it's easier to forgive her). Killing Cass would probably have been a powerful decision so it's kind of a shame they didn't go as far as possible (but I believe the executives wouldn't have been agree) but I won't lie, it's still really satisfying to see that all's well that ends well between these two, to see that Raps was ready to do anything to bring Cass back (and by judging the scene where her power goes through space, Corona is in France; guess that explains the "Plus est en vous"). And such a sweet group hug.

    And this episode got a proper epilogue too. Epilogue which as the length it deserved and is satisfying regarding everyone in my opinion. While I guess Cass is indeed a bit easily forgiven, to me it wasn't near as frustrating and undeserved as it was for Moon in SvtFoE. I liked what they chose to do with her, and it's coherent with her needs to discover her own destiny. Definitely, if only for her, this series was worth it. I also liked the fact Lance adopted Catalina and Kiera, which makes sense since they became closer and there was a good complicity between the three of them these last episodes. It's nice to see a more mature side of Lance, by adopting them. And last but not least, the romantic scene between Raps and Eugene was a nice way to end it all.

    So all in all, this final episode is worth being called a proper finale. While it's clear it's not flawless, I can feel that it was made with a lot of heart, just like the series itself. I didn't have a lot of big problems with this one (there is some issues that could've been easily avoided though, but you guys already mentioned most of them, especially the fact it's pretty padded regarding some elements and rushed regarding some others) and the good stuff was very good. It was a satisfying conclusion for Cass' character which I still like a lot, and I genuinely liked the last part. Overall, maybe not the best episode of the series nor even the best of this season, but a proper way to close the book that was opened three years ago already. Man, did I feel nostalgic at the end of this episode.
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  20. #200
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    Good write up on the finale, @Wile E. the Brain. Also nice to hear your thoughts on it at long last.

    I agree with most of what you said, even most the things I didn't bring up myself when I reviewed it (though I still do like most of the songs of the series so on that our opinions diverge). Looking back on the finale, aside from some missteps they really managed to bring it full circle with an satisfying end. After the wet fart that was the SvTFoE finale it's great that this series got a proper and very well done end, all things considered. The only real issue I do have with it is still the Lost Realm/Netherworld subplot which I still think should have been left to our imagination, despite the creative and wacky designs and all that; I really think they could have used those minutes better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wile E. the Brain View Post
    Also Eugene saying to Varian "No offense" when Rapunzel qualifies Zhan Tiri as the biggest threat that ever happened to Corona got a good chuckle out of me.
    That was a good one. I especially liked Varian's smug "meh" response. By the way, when I was listening to that song again, I thought of that exchange and it seems they all forgot about the Saporian separatists in the Season 3 premiere. I'd say they were arguably more successful and a bigger threat than Varian was, taking over the kingdom, putting the the King & Queen under the amnesia spell and enslaved the citizens, having them toil in the quarry/mine & nearly blew up the whole city (if it wasn't for Rapunzel and friends);g ranted, Varian was with them (until he switched sides) but he was only a henchman at that time.

    And on another note, those are some interesting tidbits and facts from the Q&A in that podcast, @John95.

    * Cass is not only popular among the show's fanbase, but also among the crewmembers at Mercury Filmworks (the production house in Ontario that provided the show's animation). In fact, some of the questions asked came from them.
    Reading this, I think it's pretty much a given we'll be getting an Cass spinoff sequel series eventually. There is a lot of potential there (also to bring back some of the more forgotten characters from the series) and would make most fans of 'Tangled' happy, I think.

    * Once Eden was locked in as Cass, she was essentially told of her character's entire arc from beginning to end as the show was already fully mapped out by then.
    Seeing as it was pre-planned, one thing that I think they could have done better was telegraphing early on to the viewer that Cass really harbored a lot of jelaousy and resentment because of Raps having everything and she has essentially nothing.

    Cass didn't seem especially discontent at all until later in the second season where she voiced how she never got to tap into her real potential and never had a chance to really be someone and was left "waiting in the wings" but the hidden bitter contempt never became clear until her betrayal in the second season finale (despite the earlier hint about a betrayal by someone in the group).

    Just a bit of rewriting to have her show shades of bitterness and jelaousy in the first season and in the first half of season 2 and her swift turn towards evil wold be understandable, though it could still be a surprise.
    Last edited by CousinMerl; 03-16-2020 at 10:21 AM.

  21. #201
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    @Wile E. the Brain
    the filler part is noticeable with all this body swap mix-up. Besides the enjoyable silliness of seeing Rapunzel trapped into a monkey's body and vice versa, it wasn't that much worth it,
    It did drag a bit, but I honestly thought that seeing Rapunzel's voice come out of a monkey ultimately made it sorta worth it.

    That doesn't mean there weren't useless bits, and the gang being stuck in the netherworld is a good example of that.
    Did you see the link I posted of the deleted scene with Cass and Hector? That could've been a good replacement for the Lost Realm stuff of which it was only worth it for the implication that Zhan Tiri's Enchanted Girl form was a result of how long she was stuck in there (though yeah the callback to the Buddy Song was funny).

    I never was that much of a Shorty fan but he had some really funny moments these last episodes
    One of the hosts of that podcast I keep mentioning (called Tangled Talk by the way) isn't really that crazy about Shorty either but... I dunno, I've always dug him. Probably my 4th favorite character from the show (or franchise since he's from the original film. Off topic, this reminds me of another question Eden was asked which was who she thought Cass' father was and she said she believes it's Shorty. As for me, I'm like "That's so crazy that I just can't help but accept it if it were true!".

    yeah that vase joke was really funny; Cassandra still has standards apparently
    When I first saw the episode I literally shouted "Don't say "Wait!"!" when Rapunzel did knowing that that has become Cass' trigger word. But I guess she's gotten over that as well.

    the frying pan joke was kinda anticlimactic but I still enjoy the call-back (and Zhan's face sold it to me)
    The podcast pointed out how it was anticlimactic for Zhan Tiri to be KO'd so easily which I can kinda agree with, but it allowing Cass to use a frying pan makes me go "Who cares?!". That along with seeing Rapunzel having long brown hair were two things I didn't know were missing from my life, but I'm glad they no longer are.

    Killing Cass would probably have been a powerful decision so it's kind of a shame they didn't go as far as possible (but I believe the executives wouldn't have been agree)
    I've previously said that them actually killing Cass off would've been the worst possible decision for them to make, and kinda come across as cheap in order to justify her absence at the wedding. Well, it is implied that they vetoed the decision to have everyone besides Rapunzel (and Pascal) temporarily die so them only having Cassandra go through it was likely their compromise.

    While I guess Cass is indeed a bit easily forgiven, to me it wasn't near as frustrating and undeserved as it was for Moon in SvtFoE.
    Some have theorized that not everyone in Corona has forgiven her, and that'd be understandable. I can only see her being actually forgiven by the people that were the closest to her (e.g. Rapunzel, Eugene, the Captain and I want to say Varian if her keeping the necklace is any indication). I also headcanon that her going off on her own is also a self-exile of sorts as staying in Corona would just remind her of all the bad things she's done.

    a proper way to close the book that was opened three years ago already. Man, did I feel nostalgic at the end of this episode.
    It is crazy to think that it's now finally over after I've been watching for almost as long as it began. I actually rewatched Before Ever After last week (along with The Eyes of Pincosta) and couldn't help but think of how far the show had come, and it helped me noticed a few more of the callbacks in the finale (e.g. Rapunzel touching the Moonstone shard is staged the same way as to when she first touched the rocks). On a similar note, today marks one year since the (US) premiere of Rapunzel and the Great Tree and I still remember what it was like seeing the events of that one (Hector, Hurt Incantation, Waiting in the Wings, Cass' injury) unfold for the first time.

    @CousinMerl
    one thing that I think they could have done better was telegraphing early on to the viewer that Cass really harbored a lot of jelaousy and resentment because of Raps having everything and she has essentially nothing.

    Cass didn't seem especially discontent at all until later in the second season where she voiced how she never got to tap into her real potential and never had a chance to really be someone and was left "waiting in the wings" but the hidden bitter contempt never became clear until her betrayal in the second season finale (despite the earlier hint about a betrayal by someone in the group).
    They did explore this in Challenge of the Brave, but yeah it would've been more preferable to have this be explored on a semi-regular basis instead of just one time. Though I'm sure there are some cases in Season 2 I'm blanking on where they both pitched ideas only for the rest of the caravan to pick Rapunzel's idea.

    Yeah, I still firmly believe that the buildup to her betrayal could've been handled better by having it be built up sooner. Doesn't help either that when it did happen we (referring to people like myself and Wilie who watched Destinies Collide first run) had to wait about six months (whereas you only had to wait a few weeks by the time you got there) until we learned of the why, of which I wasted about a quarter of it feeling bitter about the fact that it did happen.

  22. #202
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John95 View Post
    One of the hosts of that podcast I keep mentioning (called Tangled Talk by the way) isn't really that crazy about Shorty either but... I dunno, I've always dug him. Probably my 4th favorite character from the show (or franchise since he's from the original film. Off topic, this reminds me of another question Eden was asked which was who she thought Cass' father was and she said she believes it's Shorty. As for me, I'm like "That's so crazy that I just can't help but accept it if it were true!".
    Well, speaking of Shorty (whom I do like fine as this comic relief character), Disney released this thing the other day (which also counts for new Tangled material, which was something I have been wondering about if we'd get more of).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz7TbZwK3m0

    (A bit weird how they waited until the show was over before they released it, might I add).

  23. #203
    Have Brain, Will Travel Wile E. the Brain's Avatar
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    @CousinMerl,

    Looking back on the finale, aside from some missteps they really managed to bring it full circle with an satisfying end. After the wet fart that was the SvTFoE finale it's great that this series got a proper and very well done end, all things considered. The only real issue I do have with it is still the Lost Realm/Netherworld subplot which I still think should have been left to our imagination, despite the creative and wacky designs and all that; I really think they could have used those minutes better.
    Yep. A satisfying end for an overall satisfying show in my opinion. You feel so much with how much care this series was made that you can tell the difference with your another typical animated series based on a popular Disney movie (that doesn't mean they're all bad of course, but this one clearly is a highlight in that category). Like I said, I do agree with you regarding the Lost Realm part. Funny and creative enough but that doesn't overshadow the fact it's a useless part, despite not being the only one from this episode.

    That was a good one. I especially liked Varian's smug "meh" response.
    Indeed, that made this joke even better. And also, regarding the separatists from season 3 premiere, that's correct. Though you can argue that making them one-shot foes doesn't help, I've kinda forgot them as well, aha.

    @John95,

    It did drag a bit, but I honestly thought that seeing Rapunzel's voice come out of a monkey ultimately made it sorta worth it.
    In a way, that's possible, but it still was a bit too long for this little bit to make it totally worth it.

    Did you see the link I posted of the deleted scene with Cass and Hector? That could've been a good replacement for the Lost Realm stuff of which it was only worth it for the implication that Zhan Tiri's Enchanted Girl form was a result of how long she was stuck in there (though yeah the callback to the Buddy Song was funny).
    I didn't, but I did now, and yeah, it could have been. Though too short to compensate the whole Lost Realm part I guess but I presume that wasn't the only deleted part and pretty much anything could have been more useful than this part. Also, can I say Cass is absolutely adorable in the storyboard ?

    One of the hosts of that podcast I keep mentioning (called Tangled Talk by the way) isn't really that crazy about Shorty either but... I dunno, I've always dug him. Probably my 4th favorite character from the show (or franchise since he's from the original film.
    I understand. I mean, I'm no Shorty fan but that doesn't mean I don't like it at all either and it definitely has his humorous moments. Just that his humor style isn't always a hit for me.

    Off topic, this reminds me of another question Eden was asked which was who she thought Cass' father was and she said she believes it's Shorty. As for me, I'm like "That's so crazy that I just can't help but accept it if it were true!".
    Good idea for a sequel show about Cass, ahaha. Now I'm gonna imagine a lot of (less or more strange) things between him and Gothel.

    but it allowing Cass to use a frying pan makes me go "Who cares?!".
    Now I guess we can call the gang the frying buddies, considering the fact all three of them (Raps, Cass and Eugene) used it at least once to get rid of a foe. Never underestimate the frying pan (and yeah seeing Cass using it was worth it as well).

    I've previously said that them actually killing Cass off would've been the worst possible decision for them to make, and kinda come across as cheap in order to justify her absence at the wedding.
    Yeah, I guess that would've been kind of a cheap excuse to justify her absence in Tangled Ever After (though they don't have any excuse for some other characters, aha), and that also would've been a sort of slap in the face in so many regards, but I can't help but think the idea wouldn't have been so bad and even powerful in a way after everything she came through; don't get me wrong, I don't say she should've died, but maybe some really emotional moments could've been made around this idea. But I'm of course glad she made it and the actual ending is satisfying as it is, I'm glad she has the opportunity to find her own destiny.

    Some have theorized that not everyone in Corona has forgiven her, and that'd be understandable. I can only see her being actually forgiven by the people that were the closest to her (e.g. Rapunzel, Eugene, the Captain and I want to say Varian if her keeping the necklace is any indication). I also headcanon that her going off on her own is also a self-exile of sorts as staying in Corona would just remind her of all the bad things she's done.
    The first theory sounds admissible to me. As for the self-exile, I kinda dig this idea, it's interesting, but yeah that's probably false since they made her decision to go off on her own too optimistic to sound like self-exile because of what she did.

    On a similar note, today marks one year since the (US) premiere of Rapunzel and the Great Tree and I still remember what it was like seeing the events of that one (Hector, Hurt Incantation, Waiting in the Wings, Cass' injury) unfold for the first time.
    This one remains my favorite episode of the entire series and the one that had the biggest impact on me. A great episode that surprised many of us at the time and for all the good reasons. Also, yeah, it's definitely something to see what this did go through from beginning to ending, you can tell the difference and how they wanted to make it all bigger than it sounded like with some of the first episodes.
    Last edited by Wile E. the Brain; 04-03-2020 at 09:39 AM.

  24. #204
    seems weird and scary GlitterCat's Avatar
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    I really like this show. So much so that I write short drabbles about it on tumblr. Is anyone else interested in or make any fan projects? I know @John95 has drawn beautiful pictures of Cassandra. I'm not much of an artist myself but I love how creative the Tangled fandom is.

  25. #205
    Stonecutter John95's Avatar
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    http://www.justjared.com/2020/05/21/...ions-revealed/

    Show's being nominated for several Emmys, including Waiting in the Wings for Outstanding Original Song in a Children's, Young Adult or Animated Program.

  26. #206
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    Oh, that's quite nice. I hope it wins some of them (and 'Waiting in the Wings' is a good song pick, but sort of odd with how relatively far back that episode aired & as it is not part of the third and last season but the second).

    (And on another note, I hope 'The Dragon Prince' wins in the Outstanding Children's Animated Series category. Great show and wholeheartedly recommended. One of the best animated series of the last decade in my opinion).

  27. #207
    Have Brain, Will Travel Wile E. the Brain's Avatar
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    Gotta say that 7 nominations is quite an impressive performance, and for the most part it really is deserved (especially the casting). I wouldn't say the writing was flawless but there was fairly good work behind it.

    Never heard of The Dragon Prince before but now that I saw the synopsis and now that I know some people from Avatar The Last Airbender are behind it, I'm interested !

  28. #208
    blocks your path CousinMerl's Avatar
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    @Wile E. the Brain, if you liked 'Avatar: TLA' then I'm sure you'll enjoy 'The Dragon Prince' (the creator Aaron Eehasz did indeed work on the former show & maybe its unsung hero in some respects). The one thing that might be unusual at first is the cel-shaded CGI and the lower framerate, but that was something I quickly got past (and got used to) and it does get improved upon as the show goes on. Check it out by all means (and feel free to make a thread for it if you'd like). Some very good writing and characters in that one, among other things.



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