Groundskeeper Willie's Lip and Other Bearded Characters

[postalelf]

I just noticed that the colour of Groundskeeper Willie's Lip changes constanly, even within the same scene. For example:
Take a look at the colour of Willie's lip when he gave his views on Scottish independence:

Here you can see that the redness of his beard goes all the way around and presumably inside the mouth.

In this screencap however from the same clip, the far part of the lip now appears yellow, matching his skin. So which is it?
Some more examples:
With Beard





Without Beard




Rule one of The Simpsons, there is no consistency...

[Grifty McGrift]

No beard is better cause who has beard inside their mouth

[jim]

let's close the simpson section for good

[postalelf]

Groundskeeper Willie:


Groundskeeper Willie's Father, William MacDougal II:



Again, his lip changes from being bearded to un-bearded, interesting

Groundskeeper Willie's Cousin, Gravedigger Billy:


Once again, throughout the same episode his lip colour changes.

360 View of Willie's Head in 'My Fair Laddy':






In this shot his beard is right out and round his mouth:


Here we see an anatomical diagram of Willie's Body


Wille's beard doesnt curl around the mouth here, which is undersuprising considering he doesn't have a mouth. However whats interesting is that the beard is still present on the outside of his jaw, upper lip, and chin, implying that his beard grows from the bone rather than the skin. This perhaps gives us a clue as to how, within minutes, Willie and have hair appear from inside the jaw. And why from certain cangles it can alternate between flesh and hair.

Here we have a scan of the Simpsons Handbook of how to correctly draw the Simpsons characters:

As you can see in the coloured image to the left of the hedge cut 'willie' the beard curls around inside the mouth. However in the sketch of Willie watching the leafs fall down on the same page, you can see that the inside of the mouth joins up with the upper lip, thus contradicting itself again, suggesting that the inside lip is skin rather than beard.

[postalelf]

This picture from a kidrobot figure shows that the beard curls right around up the the teeth:


In this screenshot I took from a Groundskeeper Willie Figure you can see, again, that the beard curls right around into the mouth


By increasing the saturation and contrast you can indeed see that the far part of the lip is red, implying beard, unless hes a bit embarresed


In this shot from the 2001 PS2 game, The Simpsons Wrestling, you can see Willie has no inner lip at all

[skully the poltergeist]

I think I have a new favourite poster

[postalelf]

Startling New Evidence On The Groundskeeper Willie Lip:

Groundskeeper Willie Beard and Lip Treehouse of Horror Edition (I-V):
Treehouse of Horror I: No Willie

Treehouse of Horror II:

Here, Groundskeeper Willie has a bottom lip, now similar to his father, this is the first in show moment I've witnessed where Groundskeeper Willie has had a bottom lip. But wait, it gets better. In the next shot we see this:

Can you believe it, of course it makes sense now, Groundskeeper Willie has lips. Here you can see in one frame both the redness of the beard, the yellow of the skin, but also there is redness where the skin should but is also seperate from the beard. Perhaps all along it was actually his lips that were changing colour rather than him regrowing and shaving a beard within seconds. Maybe Groundskeeper Willie has some sort of genetic disorder that changes the colour of his skin from yellow to red around the lip area. The theory digs dipper. Lets not get too excitied however, for this is Season 3 when traditional hand painted cel-animation was still being used, could it merely be a error. Possinly, however if you look at the scene, believe it or not, but the lips gradually turn red. Here:
The scene begins with groundskeeper Willie having both yellow bottom and top lips:

Then here, you can see that the top lip is yellow still, but the bottom lip is now red, (and its not the tongue because you can see that also):

Finally the scene ends with Groundskeeper Willie now having both his lips red:

Remarkable

Treehouse of Horror III:




Treehouse of Horror IV:
Man look at Bart's eyes

Front view:



Groundskeeper Willies' lip is constantly changing in this scene, man his genetics are wacky





Treehouse of Horror V:


What the hell's going on with Willie's mouth here:

Here his lip and beard surrond each other:


In the same episode however:


Wow, the bottom lip returns



Here we see the red lips again, doenst look so much like an animation error now does it?

[Grifty McGrift]

I'm still pretty sure it's an animation error. His facial hair is just so crazy it probably gets confusing when coloring. Understandable when it comes to figures and video games that it's on his lips since there's probably no way to have it without in a 3D model

[Johnny Deformed]

i don't think it's an animation error - it's just that for whatever reason it's not decided whether willie's lip is yellow or red thus all the inconsistencies.

like how the size of pupils in people's eyes are inconsistent throughout the first six seasons or something.

[Evil Monkey]

could someone please tell me what the purpose of this thread is

[skully the poltergeist]

Can the mods please make it a sticky? Would hate for this thread to leave the first page.

[tyler]

holy shit

[Grifty McGrift]

Candy Dish thread = loved
This thread = hated

It's just so pointless it's funny. Didn't think that needed to be explained.

[Evil Monkey]

I know that this thread is pointless, it's just that @postalelf seems completely serious about it.

[postalelf]

Updates:
Evidence against the theory:

1. If the redness is caused by his lips, then why does Willie's father, William MacDougal II, and Willie's cousin, Gravedigger Billy have grey inside lips? Are their lips grey?


2. The redness of Willies lip in this scene is not caused by his beard nor the redness of his lips nor an animation error, but rather it is his blood, considering he has an axe in his back and you can see the blood from his back.


Does anyone have access to character files from Fox Studios

[Grifty McGrift]

What about other bearded characters? Homer's inside lip is the same color as his beard. Same with Jasper (although that's pretty hard to see since he barely even has an overbite)

[Telso]

Best thread about bearded lips ever without a doubt

[Evil Monkey]

you really like groundskeeper willie don't you @postalelf

[manchesterwill]

you raise a good point OP but I think camera angels could play a part in it

[sparkeydavis]

let's close the simpson section for good

Hey, the show stinks. It's fitting that the forum should fester away in sympathy.

[postalelf]

I've been doing some sketches in an attempt to try and work out Willie's sexy mouth. It seems often that when Wilie's mouth bottom beard is curved upwards, you see flesh, and when it curves downwards, it becomes beard. I think the act of him moving up and down his lower jaw causes the side of his mouth to sort of curve in and out, allowing the beard to flop inside the mouth overlapping the flesh. Here are some pictures I've created:

[Evil Monkey]

I've been doing some sketches in an attempt to try and work out Willie's sexy mouth.

@postalelf it is time to stop

[postalelf]

New Update on Groundskeeper Willie Beard. The theory of the redness being caused by his lips I think cannot pass as an explanation due to the reasons given above. Instead I have this new theory that is caused by the way the beard moves in conjunction to the characters jaw. I call this new theory:

Simpsons Beard Theory.

Here is a further diagram that will hopefully help you visualise Simpsons Beard theory. As you can see the beard fold into the mouth depending on the shape of the jaw:

[Egg]

[skully the poltergeist]

Genuine thread of the year material in my opinion! Run with it some more postalelf

[postalelf]

Understanding Simpsons Beard Theory
The Principles:

Here we see a highly simplified animation of Groundskeeper Willie's Mouth. Here, the flesh folds from the outside to the inside, like a regular human. Most of the inside of the mouth is dark and cannot be seen, but some of it is exposed to the light, this can be seen on pratically every character on the Simpsons, as they all have an inside lip. Beard theory suggests that the beard attached to the outside area of skin folds itself into the mouth, thus consealing the only visible part of the inside mouth. Because of this, the inside lip now is covered by the beard and appears, in this case, red. Although not shown in this animation, I think the beard folding into the mouth is caused by the jaw, they act in conjunction with one another. As the jaw is lowered, the beard falls into the mouth, and when the jaw is raised again the beard flops out again.

One thing to point out is that the diagram has been heavily exaggerated for sake of effect. When I say the beard folds into the mouth, I don't literally mean the beard is like a piece of foam attached to the lip that literally folds in, the effect is far more subtle.



The dark yellow represents the part that you would not see as its in the mouth and thus not exposed to the light.

[sparkeydavis]

@postalelf Alright, now I'm genuinely impressed by your dedication!

[Mr. Teenie]

This thread is actually amazing.

[postalelf]

Postalelf needs your help.

As you can see this thread has been about the unusual beard propeties Groundskeeper Willie. However before I go further I want to discuss the geometry of all Simpsons characters as a whole. Here I have drawn your typical Simpsons character mouth:

As you can see the mouth has the iconic overbite and also you can only see the edge of the lip, the rest of this person's left side of the face is hidden. The lip on the far side however I want to delve further into. You can see the lip, its yellow, but it then the rest of the mouth is black, I want to know what the position of that lip is in conjunction to the darkness of the mouth. Lets imagine we where to take a cross section of this persons head. Similar to a head scan, where going to cut a horizontal piece from the head abouth half way between the top and bottom jaw. Similar to sushi:

Here the blue circles represent where we will cut the head. Here you can see the piece I have cut out:

And here is the piece from an overhead point of view:

You can see the mouth that's like a bay into the head.

Here I have noted where you see the darkness from the mouth however heres what I want to know, If we focus on the far lip again,

What part of the far lip do we actually see? I mean is it the front or the side?
This is where you come in. Below I have mocked up a quite diagram showing the possible parts of the lip that are a) exposed, and b) you can see. which part is it?

Is it A, B, or C?
Your input would be very helpful in solving this vital enigma.
Cheers,
Postalelf
x

[Evil Monkey]

i don't even know what this thread is anymore