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Thread: UK Politics Thread: You Brexit, you pays for it.



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  1. #61
    Comic Book Me Shaunbadia's Avatar
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    Huh, so you and I are near enough the same then.
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  2. #62
    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    "Brand loses out on comedy awards after daring fans not to vote"

    I would like to clarify that I didn't claim that I would never vote; merely that in the current climate I have virtually no discernible preference until informed otherwise. Life under the Tories is shit but not intolerable, which is why US politics interest me more at the moment. They are playing catch-up, and it is a place where many, many people vehemently oppose making healthcare available to poor people, civil rights and a woman's right to choose, in part because they grew up without those things in place and benefited from others' lack of conformity to the factors which would give them a chance. At least in this country, politically speaking, those things are fairly irrevocable no matter what a section of the population of today thinks. We are able to laugh in the face of the BNP rather than entertain the possibility of them coming into power. The right to vote is something everybody should have, but it doesn't follow that you must use it if the outcome is unimportant to you at the time. I stand by the fact that Brand does more by communicating from his convenient popularity podium as a controversial entertainer than by his decision on whether to vote.

    However, I agree with Webb and commenters that one must be careful what to say to impressionable (i.e. most) people. Regardless of values, Webb's message is infinitely more empowering - he said "I think you should vote", but did not finish the sentence with "Labour". Like a good sociology teacher he was no apologist but still stated his own preference fearlessly. Telling people not to vote is the same as telling them to vote for your favourite, and I did overlook that in my support of his right not to participate in any given election. I believe that as a role model, one should be constructive and empowering rather than verbose and discouraging. Brand should form his own party and watch his fanbase become paralysed by the mixed message. Comedians seem to be the most intelligent people in pop culture even when unfunny - Russell Howard may effectively be a Nick Clegg equivalent in pandering, and not the brightest person ever to live, but he's still probably smarter than average and relatively trustworthy. Perhaps we will be the generation to elect a comedian, and it could be Brand if he is truly willing to become the person accountable for problems and work on his communication tactics. It's plausible for an ex-addict who has become accountable for his own problems - he knows the process well. With a little age and responsibility, he might finally become good at something.
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  3. #63
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    Hell, if I could vote for Russell Howard, I would.

    Although in a perfect world, I'd actually have the option to vote for Charlie Brooker.

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  5. #64
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    This year, I will wear a poppy for the last time
    I will remember friends and comrades in private next year, as the solemnity of remembrance has been twisted into a justification for conflict

    Over the last 10 years the sepia tone of November has become blood-soaked with paper poppies festooning the lapels of our politicians, newsreaders and business leaders. The most fortunate in our society have turned the solemnity of remembrance for fallen soldiers in ancient wars into a justification for our most recent armed conflicts. The American civil war's General Sherman once said that "war is hell", but unfortunately today's politicians in Britain use past wars to bolster our flagging belief in national austerity or to compel us to surrender our rights as citizens, in the name of the public good.

    Still, this year I shall wear the poppy as I have done for many years. I wear it because I am from that last generation who remember a war that encompassed the entire world. I wear the poppy because I can recall when Britain was actually threatened with a real invasion and how its citizens stood at the ready to defend her shores. But most importantly, I wear the poppy to commemorate those of my childhood friends and comrades who did not survive the second world war and those who came home physically and emotionally wounded from horrific battles that no poet or journalist could describe.

    However, I am afraid it will be the last time that I will bear witness to those soldiers, airmen and sailors who are no more, at my local cenotaph. From now on, I will lament their passing in private because my despair is for those who live in this present world. I will no longer allow my obligation as a veteran to remember those who died in the great wars to be co-opted by current or former politicians to justify our folly in Iraq, our morally dubious war on terror and our elimination of one's right to privacy.

    Come 2014 when the government marks the beginning of the first world war with quotes from Rupert Brooke, Rudyard Kipling and other great jingoists from our past empire, I will declare myself a conscientious objector. We must remember that the historical past of this country is not like an episode of Downton Abbey where the rich are portrayed as thoughtful, benevolent masters to poor folk who need the guiding hand of the ruling classes to live a proper life.

    I can tell you it didn't happen that way because I was born nine years after the first world war began. I can attest that life for most people was spent in abject poverty where one laboured under brutal working conditions for little pay and lived in houses not fit to kennel a dog today. We must remember that the war was fought by the working classes who comprised 80% of Britain's population in 1913.

    This is why I find that the government's intention to spend £50m to dress the slaughter of close to a million British soldiers in the 1914-18 conflict as a fight for freedom and democracy profane. Too many of the dead, from that horrendous war, didn't know real freedom because they were poor and were never truly represented by their members of parliament.

    My uncle and many of my relatives died in that war and they weren't officers or NCOs; they were simple Tommies. They were like the hundreds of thousands of other boys who were sent to their slaughter by a government that didn't care to represent their citizens if they were working poor and under-educated. My family members took the king's shilling because they had little choice, whereas many others from similar economic backgrounds were strong-armed into enlisting by war propaganda or press-ganged into military service by their employers.

    For many of you 1914 probably seems like a long time ago but I'll be 91 next year, so it feels recent. Today, we have allowed monolithic corporate institutions to set our national agenda. We have allowed vitriol to replace earnest debate and we have somehow deluded ourselves into thinking that wealth is wisdom. But by far the worst error we have made as a people is to think ourselves as taxpayers first and citizens second.

    Next year, I won't wear the poppy but I will until my last breath remember the past and the struggles my generation made to build this country into a civilised state for the working and middle classes. If we are to survive as a progressive nation we have to start tending to our living because the wounded: our poor, our underemployed youth, our hard-pressed middle class and our struggling seniors shouldn't be left to die on the battleground of modern life.
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  6. #65
    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    I do agree. This kind of thing is what makes Britain seem closest to America; warping a past situation into something it's not, to keep social order and ensure that the public never questions what a glorious country we live in. It's bad enough that people are still raised with the imperial belief that success must necessarily be at the expense of others. I would rather we acted more like Germany does (admittedly they are a little bit too heavy handed in their eagerness to make sure there are no more Hitlers), and educate children so thoroughly on the realities of war (and many other things that are glossed over, yet way too ubiquitous to ignore) that we don't need to have a "day" for everything. It breeds the sentiment that there's no point memorising anything because we'll be reminded to participate when the time comes. Those who really care about a cause, care all year round. It's not just the UK, because as I said America is big on "Black History Month" type landmarks instead of making a proper effort to educate people enough at base level. We don't live in a fair and equal country until it occurs naturally to people that certain things are/were beyond difficult to handle. Above all, I dislike the idea of remembrance/awareness being a badge that people can wear to gain favour, or even feel that they must to avoid losing favour. The half-arsedness of execution in everyday society renders occasions such as this "just another dress-up day", rather than an opportunity to educate and ask provoking questions. I'm not saying that we should necessarily not have awareness days, but that we shouldn't need them. "Lest we forget" is essentially a failure when the majority aren't really sure what they're supposed to remember, and oftentimes may have been misinformed anyway. /tired rant


  7. #66
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    I think the misinformation is the annoying part, it's become "LOOK AT OUR BRAVE TROOPS, ISN'T THIS WAR GRAND" instead of "Hey, remember when we sent millions of our young people to die over a pointless war? We should probably remind people of that so it kinda doesn't happen again" That kind of remembrance I don't mind


  8. #67
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    so I figured the British members would appreciate this


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  10. #68
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    See, this is why we can't afford to fall for his 'oh you should love me i'm such a wacky upper class buffoon' shtick

    Boris Johnson says super-rich are ‘put-upon minority’ like homeless people and Irish travellers
    The Mayor of London Boris Johnson has told people to stop “bashing” the super-rich, comparing them to hard-pressed minorities like the homeless, Irish travellers or ex-gang members.
    Mr Johnson accused “everyone from the Archbishop of Canterbury to Nick Clegg” of bullying the group he defined as “zillionaires” – and said the most rich of all should receive “automatic knighthoods”.

    The comments come from an article Mr Johnson wrote for the Daily Telegraph, and appear just a day after the BBC’s The Revolution Will Be Televised programme criticised the capital’s mayor for his “career in show business” – confronting him and asking when he would move into politics.

    Mr Johnson said the rich deserve our “humble and hearty thanks” for their contributions to charity and the exchequer – quoting figures that say the top 1 per cent pay 29.8 per cent of all UK income tax.

    “It is my duty to stick up for every put-upon minority in the city – from the homeless to Irish travellers to ex-gang members to disgraced former MPs,” Mr Johnson wrote.

    “But there is one minority that I still behold with a benign bewilderment, and that is the very, very rich.

    “These are the people who put bread on the tables of families who – if the rich didn’t invest in supercars and employ eau de cologne-dabbers – might otherwise find themselves without a breadwinner,” Mr Johnson said.

    “We should stop any bashing or moaning or preaching or bitching and simply give thanks for the prodigious sums of money that they are contributing to the tax revenues of this country, and that enable us to look after our sick and our elderly and to build roads, railways and schools,” he said.

    The London Assembly's Labour group leader Len Duvall responded to the mayor's article, saying: “Many hard-pressed Londoners will find Boris’ views on the super-rich difficult to stomach, at a time when people are struggling with the cost of living crisis his comments are deeply offensive.

    “Rather than cosying up to the 0.1 per cent he should be spending his time using his position as our Mayor to ease the burden on ordinary Londoners.”

    On Twitter, Mr Johnson’s comments were backed by the Spectator editor Fraser Nelson, who said: “He’s right, but which other politician would dare say so?”

    But Adam Bienkov from Politics.co.uk compared the mayor’s comments to the fact that the number of homeless in London has doubled over the past five years – despite Mr Johnson’s promise “to end rough sleeping in London by the end of 2012”.

    Paul Isemonger said the comments were “an absurd anachronism”, while student activists People’s Assembly Against Austerity from King’s College, London said: “Boris Johnson has suggested that the super rich are an oppressed minority. These people just don't get it, do they?”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-8946661.html

  11. #69
    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    For fuck's sake! I'm all for gratefulness where gratefulness is due, but everyone who works pays tax, and frankly I feel a lot sorrier for the ones who earn so little that it's pretty ridiculous to ask them to. If you earn enough to live without worrying where anything significant is going to come from, shut your yap whining about paying taxes! Taxes exist because unfortunately most people can't be trusted to autonomously support anyone else, including their own bloody children, hence child benefit. This isn't just unemployed or barely employed people either.

    I am forced to believe that on top of his existing riches, Boris is being bought into favour by zillionaires to whom a few treats for a politician are a small price to pay for keeping their future taxes as low as possible, and their social status high. If it's not directly money, what on earth does he have to gain by making comments that will infuriate at least 80% of the country? The worst part is that millions of ordinary earners agree with the rich people who say that tax should be less, ignoring the fact that there doesn't need to be one rule for everybody. If low earners had fairer taxes there would be less chance of working class people identifying with the toffs who will disadvantage them should their circumstances change. And when are wages going to become effort-based? It's overdue.
    Last edited by kes; 11-18-2013 at 10:22 AM.


  12. #70
    direct floor engagement steamed_hamms's Avatar
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    great speech from dennis skinner here:


  13. #71
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  14. #72
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    so Bob Crow died. No matter what you think of the job he did 52 is no age to die at. RIP

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  16. #74
    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    Has this been posted yet, and how representative do you think the countrywide stats are?

    http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

    Nationally: Green Party: 24.78% / Labour: 20.25% /
    Lib Dems: 17.27% / Conservatives: 15.05% / UKIP: 12.27% / BNP: 10.38%
    Where I am: Green Party: 19.86% / Labour: 18.72% /
    BNP: 17.80% / UKIP: 16.83% / Conservatives: 13.57% / Lib Dems: 13.22%

    Note the literal switching of the final four.


  17. #75
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    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...k-9250449.html

    Cameron is just doing God's work, guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammster View Post
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...k-9250449.html

    Cameron is just doing God's work, guys.
    Does that mean we can stick him to a cross at Easter next to George Osborne and Mrs Nick Cameron-Clegg?
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  20. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Spruce Moose View Post
    7/12....not bad.

  21. #79
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    I got 9/12. Looks like I can tell the difference between a tyrannical but utterly moronic villain, overly fixated on preserving tradition and draining the fun out of education...


    and Dolores Umbridge.

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  23. #80
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    did anybody see farage on hignfy? don't like him being given a platform but if he is to be given one, give him one to squirm upon

  24. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammster View Post
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...k-9250449.html

    Cameron is just doing God's work, guys.
    Jesus was publicly flogged and a crown of thorns was forced upon his head, piercing his skin till he bled and then he was nailed to a cross and left there until he died.

    I’m just saying…….

  25. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yule Blog View Post
    Has this been posted yet, and how representative do you think the countrywide stats are?

    http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

    Nationally: Green Party: 24.78% / Labour: 20.25% /
    Lib Dems: 17.27% / Conservatives: 15.05% / UKIP: 12.27% / BNP: 10.38%
    Where I am: Green Party: 19.86% / Labour: 18.72% /
    BNP: 17.80% / UKIP: 16.83% / Conservatives: 13.57% / Lib Dems: 13.22%

    Note the literal switching of the final four.
    Is this not based on 2010 manifestos rather than anything they've done since? Because if so the Lib Dems appeal goes down by about 17.27%

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    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...y-9294586.html

    Jobless must sign on every day: Government to dock money from long-term unemployed if they do not comply

    Harsh rules to drive the long-term unemployed into work come into force today, which state they will only receive their benefits if they either show up at a jobcentre every day or commit to six months of voluntary work.

    Those who fail to comply with the rules, which also offer signing up to a training scheme as a third option, will have their jobseeker’s allowance docked for four weeks for the first offence, and 13 weeks for the second.

    Under the previous system, people were only required to attend a jobcentre once a fortnight so the move is likely to see long queues of people lining up to sign on every day.

    The stringent measures announced today by the Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, under the heading Help to Work, reflect his conviction that there is work for the unemployed, if they can be induced, by a combination of encouragement and sanctions, to wean themselves off welfare.

    According to the Government, there are 600,000 job vacancies at any given time. The latest rules apply to the 200,000 or so toughest cases – the one in 30 claimants who has been out of work for three years or more.

    One major part of the scheme has run into immediate trouble. A group of leading charities, including Oxfam, has announced that it is boycotting the new mandatory work placement scheme on the grounds that volunteering should be genuinely voluntary and not something that the long-term unemployed are forced to do under a threat of losing their benefits.

    The charities have noted that the maximum community service order that someone might receive if they were found guilty of drink-driving or assault is 300 hours, but claimants on six-month workfare schemes will have to work without pay for more than double this time.

    The new rules were first announced by the Chancellor, George Osborne, in his speech to last year’s Tory conference. The idea behind unpaid community work is that it will help the long-term unemployed learn the discipline of observing office hours and being part of a team.

    But 30 voluntary sector organisations are launching a campaign today to Keep Volunteering Voluntary, forming an alliance of groups who have all agreed not to sign up to the scheme. “Workfare schemes force unemployed people to carry out unpaid work or face benefit sanctions that can cause hardship and destitution,” a pledge signed by the campaign’s members reads. “We believe in keeping volunteering voluntary and will not participate in government workfare schemes.”

    Britain’s biggest union, Unite, has also condemned the new scheme as “nothing more than forced unpaid labour”.

    But a Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said; “There are a number of charities and other organisations who will be coming forward, who see this as a valuable initiative.” The sort of work that the Government thinks the long-term unemployed could be doing includes “gardening projects, running community cafes or even restoring historical sites and war memorials”.

    He added that the present requirement that the unemployed report to a jobcentre once a fortnight has led to slow progress in getting them to find work, a problem that daily contact with a supervisor should overcome. Though one aspect of Help to Work is intensive training, the Government is not creating extra training places.

    Jobcentre staff will have more leeway to make small payments to help those who cannot afford the journey to work, or cannot afford work clothes.

    David Cameron defended the new measures yesterday as a means of helping the long- term unemployed escape from welfare dependency. “We are seeing record levels of employment in Britain, as more and more people find a job, but we need to look at those who are persistently stuck on benefits.

    “This scheme will provide more help than ever before, getting people into work and on the road to a more secure future,” he said.
    Having been driven to desperate measures by a bunch of feckless, classless scumbags, the long term unemployed are going to really struggle after this.

  27. #84
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    Why in fuck are they pouring more money into stalking claimants when tax evasion amongst companies is so huge? Also remind me again why people vote for anyone who thinks this is acceptable. I honestly don't see why we can't pay people at least minimum wage in exchange for forcing an unwanted job on them; would solve the problem for those who want to work but can't compete, and may actually help those who genuinely don't want to work to see the benefits of earning more and be turned off the "welfare lifestyle" that some insist is a thing. To be fair, a lot of volunteer jobs only exist because it takes a certain kind of person, and most couldn't even be bribed into doing it.

    I carried out two months' FULL TIME work experience for dole money only, and I am a mug. I love my job, but my boss is as bad as JCP and I just can't get behind wage incentive schemes that allow the sort of people who would never be employed by anyone else, to become employers and lock others into an unhealthy relationship. (The prereq for which was the employee volunteering for a set period before eligibility, by the way.) I say fair wages, or don't even THINK about forcing people to work.

  28. #85
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    david cameron's brother has embarrassed him a little bit here: http://www.channel4.com/news/legal-a...rayling-stayed


  29. #86
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    payback for all the times cuntface has embarrassed poor Alex to be fair.

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    In the red corner, we have a rapid [not really] Marxist and his more brilliant [not really] brother who makes an honourable living in 'charitable' circles in New York. Ladies and gentlemen, THE MILIBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

    And in the blue corner, we have a compassionate conservative [not really] and his brother who has a job in the top echelons of society [surprise surprise]. Ladies and gentlemen, THE CAMEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

    [Nick Clegg holds up the 'Round 1' card in a tight bra and legless pantyhose like the bitch he is and we're off]

    LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Waking material for the next while.

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    Don't mind me, just popping in to share this image with you all.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Spruce Moose View Post
    I say people on the dole should be forced into volunteer jobs!!! This situation of loads of people just sat on their arses all day doing nothing annoys me! They treat applying for jobs as a "chore", where as getting a job should be something people want to do to better themselves in life instead of living on benefits.
    Volunteering will help them get better communication skills - which most of them lack anyways!, as well as experience and if they succeed they can always go back and get a refernece from them for a new job. This will make the people who just sit around all day take looking for a job seriously as they will want to get into work to get more money.
    I mean I know not all people claiming benefits are taking the system for a ride, some actually want to get back into work. But something definitely needs to be done for the lazy people.



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