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Thread: UK Politics Thread: You Brexit, you pays for it.



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    oh dear, I say! The Spruce Moose's Avatar
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    UK Politics Thread: You Brexit, you pays for it.

    So I had news I wanted to post on here, but figured that rather than clutter the board every time that prick Cameron does something evil i'd keep it all in one thread. Here's a news article for you

    NSFW WARNING: contains a massive, massive cunt

    David Cameron: Young people under 25 would not be able to claim employment or housing benefits under Tory government
    PM offers prospect of income tax cuts as he pleads for chance to 'finish the job' of balancing nation’s books in closing speech

    Young people under 25 could lose their state benefits if they are not in work, education or training in the next round of Conservative welfare reforms, David Cameron revealed today.

    In his closing speech the Tory conference in Manchester, the Prime Minister disclosed that his party’s manifesto for the 2015 election would include proposals to tackle the problem of “Neets” – young people not in education, employment or training.

    Later Tory officials confirmed that under-25s would lose their automatic right to Housing Benefit and Jobseeker’s Allowance if they refused to take up offers of work, training or education. The move is unlikely to be introduced before the 2015 election because the Liberal Democrats have already blocked proposals by Tory ministers to curb Housing Benefit for under-25s.

    Extending American-style “workfare” to young people would be controversial at a time when many young adults, including graduates, point to the lack of job opportunities. The Tories will have to decide whether young single parents would be hit, since they account for an estimated 40 per cent of Housing Benefit claims by under-25s.

    The “earn or learn” scheme would aim to ensure that all under-25s were either in education, training, work or an apprenticeship. By merging education and welfare policies, Mr Cameron wants the state to intervene at the earliest possible stage to prevent young people being trapped in a cycle of unemployment and benefit dependency.

    The issue is being studied by the Tory MP Jo Johnson, who heads the Downing Street Policy Unit, and Sir Jeremy Heywood, the Cabinet Secretary. At present, the young jobless lose their benefits if they train for more than 16 hours a week. As a result, the system pays them if they are not in training - but stops supporting them when they are. The Heywood review is looking at ways of supporting young people after they start training.

    Mr Cameron said: “There are still over a million young people not in education, employment, or training. Today it is still possible to leave school, sign on, find a flat, start claiming housing benefit and opt for a life on benefits.

    ”It’s time for bold action here. We should ask, as we write our next manifesto, if that option should really exist at all. Instead, we should give young people a clear, positive choice: go to school. Go to college. Do an apprenticeship. Get a job. But just choose the dole? We’ve got to offer them something better than that.“

    The Tory plans met a hostile reaction. Grainia Long, chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Housing, said: “This would be a dangerous move. How do you build the economy without a young, mobile workforce? It would mean that young people would be unwilling to take risks such as moving for work because there would be no safety net for them.”

    Frances O’Grady, the TUC general secretary, said: “Given the government’s awful track record of helping young people find jobs, the Prime Minister’s threat to ban the dole for under-25s will simply push hundreds of thousands of young people, including those with young families, even deeper into poverty.”

    Sally Hunt, general secretary of the University and College Union representing staff in further and higher education, said: “Educational underachievement costs the UK economy an estimated 22bn a year. We will not resolve this massive problem by forcing young people into unstable, low paying employment or inadequate training.”

    In his speech, Mr Cameron attacked Ed Miliband for “bashing business”, warning that was “crazy” because it would deter foreign investment and undermine Britain in the global economic race.

    The Prime Minister dangled the long term prospect of income tax cuts before the public as he pleaded for the chance to “finish the job” of balancing the nation’s books. He sketched out the battle lines for the 2015 election as he responded to Mr Miliband’s pledge last week to impose a 20-month price freeze on the unpopular energy companies.

    Without defending the “big six” energy giants, Mr Cameron said: “I know that bashing business might play to a Labour audience. But it’s crazy for our country. So if Labour’s plan for jobs is to attack business, ours is to back business.”

    Mr Cameron admitted that the Tories needed to “do more” to help people struggling in what Labour has dubbed the “cost of living crisis.” But his answer was to reduce income tax rather than the “quick fix” offered by Labour.

    He insisted that the Government needed to cut the deficit to keep mortgage rates low, grow the economy, create jobs and cut taxes. “We’re Tories. We believe in low taxes. And believe me – we will keep on cutting the taxes of hardworking people.”

    Insisting the battle to clear the deficit had not yet been won, Mr Cameron said: “This struggle will only be worth it if we as a country finish the job we’ve started…We still haven’t finished paying for Labour’s debt crisis. If anyone thinks that’s over, done with, dealt with, they’re living in a fantasy land.” He raised his party’s sights beyond the age of austerity to his mission – building a “land of opportunity for all.”

    Mr Cameron emphasised his “one nation” credentials by heaping praise on social workers who wrestle with agonising decisions on whether to put children into care.

    “Social work is a vital and noble calling,” he said. “I have to make some tough decisions in my job, but none as tough as whether to break up a family and rescue a child, or try to stitch that family back together.”


    Source
    Quote Originally Posted by The Egg Council Creepy View Post
    Here's FIVE non-rock songs I like:
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    What a fucking cunt.



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    Comic Book Me Shaunbadia's Avatar
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    Ugh...you know when you read a story like that...one that's just so gob smackingly depressing and unbelievable that the mere act of reading through it is enough to render you near speechless and exasperated? Yeah, that's how this has made me feel.

    How to remaster


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    oh dear, I say! The Spruce Moose's Avatar
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    they may be far from ideal but at this rate i'll be counting down the days until Labour kick the Tory scum out of office


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    direct floor engagement steamed_hamms's Avatar
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    saw someone today that Labour's lurch to the Left has left the Tories grasping for the centre ground
    this isn't the centre ground, this is UKIP pish

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    Even for David Cameron and the Tory incumbents of Number 10, this policy is utterly disgraceful. Still, I'm sure the Daily Mail will be delighted with this, once they're done demonising a dead man who did far more for Britain than a newspaper that publically supporter Hitler and the Nazis.

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    Release the hounds... Sinister Burns's Avatar
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    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Burns View Post
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
    What's reasonable about it? What's even remotely reasonable about it?


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    What isn't reasonable about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Burns View Post
    What isn't reasonable about it?
    I asked you first, you have the floor sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Burns View Post
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.


    Go on...

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    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    Why under 25 anyway? Statistically speaking we're the least likely to gain employment because we're the least likely to have experience. Bullshit once again, Mr Cameron - give us the experience before making judgements on what can and cannot be done. We already lose our JSA if we refuse job offers so what's new other than DC reaffirming his dickheadedness? Come on sir; pay for me to retake my A Levels, write me a reference for teaching school and then we'll talk.
    "Because you watched House, we think you'll enjoy... Fuller House."

    Party time... excellent...


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    Comic Book Me Shaunbadia's Avatar
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    The next election is in roughly 2 years time, right? I'll be more or less fresh out of Uni at that point and seeking full time employment. But during that gap of time where I'm searching, by God will there be Hell to pay if anyone tries to cut whatever money I'm entitled to. The worst part is when the dole office try to shift you into some shitty little position that you have no interest in, nor would you be particularly qualified for. I've never had to sign on but I've been down at the dole office for various bits and pieces and with other people I know who have had to stop in and sign on and by Christ I don't know how anyone that has to regularly set foot in that building that isn't an employee manages to keep their composure and not drag the condescending little cunts on the other side across to set them straight.

    My dad fucks with them all the time when he signs on. @Blood Fog you know those little things you have to fill out saying what efforts you've made to seek employment each week or whatever? My dad puts down all sorts of ludicrous shit that's blatantly taking the piss. There was a job thing in my local paper a year or so back and my dad wrote down that he leapt out of bed and ran into town barefoot in a bid to be the first one to snag up the position only to have his hopes dashed upon arriving to the newspaper office and walked home bitterly disappointed. In the section that says "What will you do next?" he wrote something along the lines of "Crawl back into bed, defeated".

    PROOF IF EVER I'VE SEEN IT THAT THEY DON'T FUCKING READ THOSE THINGS AT ALL! It's like giving a group of school children some inconsequential busybody work of no importance so that the teacher can sit back and sleep.

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    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    I van vouch for that. I have a woman who rings me up with job opportunities, right. So she rings me on Friday with a waitress job miles outta town and I'm like "I'll get right on it", and then I sign on Wednesday. Women phones me up not three hours later while I'm trying to eat my bacon (and God help me if I ever ignore a call), asking whether I applied for it. I'm like, "Yes, I applied on Friday and have not heard back yet. It should be on my sheet." I mean fucking hell, I've got to the point where I will unapologetically patronise them back.

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    Comic Book Me Shaunbadia's Avatar
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    Wow, I've never heard of anybody I know getting calls from the dole office telling them about job opportunities. They're usually just told about various positions available while they're talking to whoever happens to be dealing with them or they're told to check those little touch screen things near the front of the building that list available jobs, which is usually next to none based on what I've seen.

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    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    I don't have an advisor anymore; just sign fortnightly which takes about two minutes. I don't have it as bad as most, except for the whole payment fiasco and dumbshit course.

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    oh dear, I say! The Spruce Moose's Avatar
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24479812

    UK asylum seekers 'told to prove they are gay'

    Gay and lesbian people seeking asylum in the UK from persecution abroad are being ordered to "prove" their sexuality, MPs have said.

    In extreme cases claimants had handed over photographic and video evidence of "highly personal sexual activity" in an effort to persuade officials, the Home Affairs Committee found.

    The gay rights group Stonewall called the testing system "distressing".

    The Home Office promised to monitor and maintain standards.

    In its report on the asylum system, the committee said it was concerned by the quality of the UK Border Agency's decision-making, as 30% of appeals against initial decisions had been allowed in 2012.

    And a backlog of 32,600 asylum cases that should have been resolved in 2011 was yet to be concluded, while the number of applicants still waiting for an initial decision after six months had risen by 63% last year.


    'Absurd'
    Some had been waiting up to 16 years, while the housing with which they were provided was sometimes "appalling".

    It also said poor decision-making by officials was raising the risk of the UK harbouring war criminals.

    The committee also focused on the situation facing lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex (LGBTI) people seeking asylum.

    In its report, the committee said they faced "extraordinary obstacles" in persuading immigration officers of their case.

    Its chairman, Labour MP Keith Vaz, told BBC News: "It is absurd for a judge or a caseworker to have to ask an individual to prove that they are lesbian or gay, to ask them what kind of films they watch, what kind of material they read.

    "People should accept the statement of sexuality by those who seek asylum. This practice is regrettable and ought to be stopped immediately."

    A Supreme Court ruling in 2010 stated that the "underlying rationale" of the United Nations Refugee Convention was that people should be able to "live freely and openly" in their own country without fear of persecution.

    This judgement, the committee said, had effectively overturned the Border Agency's previous emphasis on "voluntary discretion" - which had meant it should be seen an option for claimants to conceal their sexuality in order to avoid abuse.

    'Weakness'
    The report said: "The battleground is now firmly centred in 'proving' that they are gay. In turn, this has led to claimants going to extreme lengths to try and meet the new demands of credibility assessment in this area, including the submission of photographic and video evidence of highly personal sexual activity to caseworkers, presenting officers and the judiciary."

    The committee said: "We were concerned to hear that the decision making process for LGBTI applicants relies so heavily on anecdotal evidence and 'proving that they are gay'."

    It added that "it is not appropriate to force people to prove their sexuality if there is a perception that they are gay. The assessment of credibility is an area of weakness within the British asylum system.

    "Furthermore, the fact that credibility issues disproportionately affect the most vulnerable applicants - victims of domestic and sexual violence, victims of torture and persecution because of their sexuality - makes improvement all the more necessary."

    The Refugee Council said the committee's report reflected its "grave concerns" about the UK asylum system.

    Chief Executive Maurice Wren said: "Failing to treat asylum seekers with dignity and, simultaneously, failing to deal effectively and fairly with their claims has created an expensive and counter-productive bureaucratic nightmare that all too often denies vulnerable people the protection from persecution and oppression they desperately need."

    Stonewall says LGBTI people in some countries have suffered rape, torture and death threats.

    Spokesman Richard Lane said: "Being gay isn't about what nightclubs you go to; it is a fundamental part of who you are.

    "Sadly, in far too many cases, valuable time is spent attempting to 'prove' a claimant is gay in this way rather than establishing whether they have a legitimate fear of persecution.

    "This is not only a waste of time and resources but can be deeply distressing to asylum seekers, many of who have fled for fear of their lives."

    A Home Office spokesman said: "The UK has a proud history of granting asylum to those who need it. We are committed to concluding all cases as quickly as possible, but asylum cases are often complex and require full and thorough consideration.

    "We have robust mechanisms in place to monitor standards of housing provided to asylum seekers."

    He added: "We will continue to monitor performance to ensure that standards are met."
    I'm really not sure we should be basing asylum policies around what sounds like a bad Family Guy cutaway...

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    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    That's messed up. Are they asking unmarried couples to prove they're together? Not to mention presumably these gay people can't actually get married in their own country so they'd naturally fall into the disputable category under these rules. How is it anyone else's business? I'm sure for some it's humiliating enough even having to come out to a legal audience after years living in a place where even suggesting it could get them tortured, and while that's necessary because it's the grounds for asylum, they shouldn't have to do any more than say it. Having known someone who sought asylum from Egypt because she would be murdered by her own family (plus others) for being a lesbian, this angers me. As far as I know, the person did successfully gain citizenship but her family were flown back and she can't easily see them again, if at all. So I ask you government, isn't it hard enough for these people without you rifling through their few personal belongings, trying to count penises and vaginas that probably aren't there?

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    Comic Book Me Shaunbadia's Avatar
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    What the actual fuck? I'm sure the people who oversee this would soon back down on their little "Prove you're gay" policy if a same sex couple were to make advances on a worker of the same gender.

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    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    I think they'd have the couple done for sexual assault and then denied on the grounds of "probable rapist", so probably not the best tactic.

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    Comic Book Me Shaunbadia's Avatar
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    I can just imagine the person who came up with this awful idea is watching the video footage and getting off on it.


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    oh dear, I say! The Spruce Moose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunbadia View Post
    I can just imagine the person who came up with this awful idea is watching the video footage and getting off on it.
    That's pretty much what I meant by it sounding like a bad FG cutaway

    "uh yeah, so we're not going to let you in unless you prove you're gay. Oh yeah, that's it. No, no, more tongue or someone is getting deported. Goddamnit how are you not grabbing that ass it's so juicy!"

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    Comic Book Me Shaunbadia's Avatar
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    I was thinking more of this South Park clip


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    So at this point we might as well just hurl ourselves into traffic, yes?

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    oh dear, I say! The Spruce Moose's Avatar
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    well, that's one vote they've lost (until they manage to do something right because i'm inevitably forgetful and so anti-Tory i'll do anything to keep them out)

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    oh dear, I say! The Spruce Moose's Avatar
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    annoyingly there are good ideas hidden in there ignored because Labour are going for the same anti-poor rhetoric as their supposed political antithesis, the Tories

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    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    to cut welfare bill and force long-term jobless to take up work offers or lose state support
    People keep highlighting this and I really don't get it because that's what happens already, to anyone, not just the longterm jobless. Feeling decidedly unthreatened, but that's really because I don't believe things can legally become any worse before seriously infringing on people's rights to the point that it ends up a sociology horror story for future generations.

    Um, also, why should I have to wait a year out of work to be offered a guaranteed job? That is something I want right now, and I am not fussy. Still think they should be funding college re-dos though, if the person has proven that their grades were putting off employers.

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    direct floor engagement steamed_hamms's Avatar
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    I'm still voting Labour because I don't have much of an alternative. Labour/Lib Dem coalition would be good although I don't imagine it'd make much of an impact on rhetoric like this,

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    the gay agender kes's Avatar
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    I don't know why anyone's shocked by this. All my childhood people were complaining that Labour was "no longer for the working people", and now it's once again for the working people. Only the working people, just the same as the Tories are for the privileged few. As far as I know no one has ever been sticking up for underprivileged adults who want an education, and all they've ever done is throw us a bone. :/

    Both parties need to stop highlighting how much money each other have wasted and actually figure out how to spend it better. Right now they spend so much on stalking jobless people when they could be counselling us in how to get a job, finding jobs for us, checking the applications aren't bullshit, drawing a distinction between high and low GCSEs/A Levels, understanding depression, stress and anxiety and what they do to contribute to it, understanding that education shouldn't have an age or time limit that destroys you for messing up, and generally means testing benefits so instead of working my arse off for 200 drinking money I can go at a slower pace and earn only my rent, EMA was dumb as hell, but I still like @Shaunbadia's victory story for proving what a flawed system it was. Main point being he needed it anyway but "shouldn't" have had it.




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