Simpsons Voice Actors Strike... Again!

sort of..

'Simpsons' voices ready to strike
http://el-universal.com.mx/pls/impre...58&tabla=miami

The actors who for 15 years have provided the voices for the Latin American episodes of "The Simpsons," known in Spanish as "Los Simpson," say they are ready to take to the streets in protest after their employer, Grabaciones y Doblajes Internacionales, said it was considering replacing them.

The company's latest posture comes as part of its steadfast refusal to sign an exclusive contract with the program's actors and their union, the National Association of Actors (ANDA). For its part, ANDA says that this position violates labor laws and in response, the group has filed an appeal with the nation's Supreme Court.

Humberto Vélez, who does the voice of the show's principal character "Homero," said that he and his fellow "Simpson" actors were greatly disappointed by their employer's stance, saying that the actors and their union had been "very generous" in their dealings with the company. "We charge 60 dollars per episode," he said, "whereas our counterparts on the English versions make 300,000 dollars per episode."

"We are not difficult people to work with; we work out of love of our craft," added Vélez. "Let's hope that before we have to turn this into an ugly affair that (our employers) solve the issue. It would break my heart to have to stop doing the voice of Homero, and to turn on the television and hear someone else doing my voice."

Gabriel Chávez, best known as the voice of Homero's boss, "Señor Burns," said that one possibility the group is exploring is asking the owners of the program, 20th Century Fox, to step into the dispute and possibly take the show to another voice-over production company that would sign a collectivebargaining contract with ANDA.

"I have received thousands of calls and e-mails from people all over Latin America saying that they do not want to hear new voices on 'Los Simpson,' " said Chávez, adding the Mexico Cityproduced episodes are seen by as many as 250 million viewers in 40 Spanish-speaking countries.

posted on www.simpsonschannel.com

I wonder if there's a guy who does the Spanish version of the Bumble Bee Guy.

To ne honest these guys actually have a good reason. Although their American counterparts are so much more better. They can't be $299,940 per episode a difference?

I thought the Spanish voice of Homer died after season 11. And I thought the voice of Bart was replaced around season 6. Are there separate Spanish-language versions made for Spain and Latin America?

hahahaha

would have been a grade-a parody article. though it needs a feud between the voice of senor burns and al jean's non-union mexican equivalent.

That's quite interesting. But have you listened to the polish version? It's on the season 5 DVD disc 4. It's just so bad.

OK guys I live here in Baja California, which is Mexico if u don't know it, lol, anyway this is a fucking big thing for me, the whole feud is really stupid and I wish there could be something I can do...... I'm gonna write Matt a personal letter, lol.... I mean changing the fucking voices would be a fucking big mistake to make, enough that we had to deal with the change of Bart's voice like 4 yrs ago, it's still weird to listen to the old cool voice I grew to love in the dvds and now listening to this weird one.
People here usually prefer the spanish voices over the english one, which i dont agree since Dan's voice for Homer is just perfection. But let me tell u that the spanish voices are amazing, the guy that does Homer nails him perfectly, at first they weren't able to get the timing for the jokes but now they are great at them and I love that now they leave all the references to people, stars, politicians intact instead of trying to make up a stupid mexican name like they used in the earlier seasons.
Another thing is that I've heard that while the US actor earn $350k or something per episode the guys here earn $60 FUCKING DOLLARS PER ONE, i mean, WTF is that, the latinamerican public is a big source for TS franchise........

Anyway, by my long reply u see this is important for me....... *cries*

Originally Posted by Jerry P.

Are there separate Spanish-language versions made for Spain and Latin America?

Yes, just as there are separate French dubbings for Québec and Europe. (The French-Canadian Homer is much funnier than his European counterpart.)

Originally Posted by Snake_aka_Jailbird

Have you listened to the polish version? It's on the season 5 DVD disc 4. It's just so bad.

Is that the one where they simply talk over the English voices? Yeah, that's bad alright.

Originally Posted by Valhum

I love that now they leave all the references to people, stars, politicians intact instead of trying to make up a stupid mexican name like they used in the earlier seasons.

They do that, although rarely, in the European French dubbing; make up a fake celebrity or brand name that sounds American. More commonly, however, they substitute someone who the French are more familiar with. For example, in "Mountain of Madness" Bart says that nobody remembers what team Babe Ruth played for, and Marge and Lisa say "Yankees"; in France they change the reference to Maradona and Argentina. In "Bart the Murderer," it's no longer Willie Nelson who will swim the English Channel, but Boy George.

The most inexplicable example of this that I've yet found is in the German version of "$pringfield," where the guy from Amos & Andy in the 1950's newsreel is identified as "Eddie Murphy, before he gets into makeup." What the hell?

Originally Posted by Hydro

The most inexplicable example of this that I've yet found is in the German version of "$pringfield," where the guy from Amos & Andy in the 1950's newsreel is identified as "Eddie Murphy, before he gets into makeup." What the hell?

hahahahahhaa that's fucked up...... the only one i remember is the TOH where they do the shinning parody and instead of saying the John Denver special they say a Maria Conchita Alonso special..... WTF hahahaha

Agh, I shouldn't laugh, but this is hilarious. Senor Burns...Homero...I have no idea why I'm laughing.

Originally Posted by Valhum

the TOH where they do the shinning parody and instead of saying the John Denver special they say a Maria Conchita Alonso special

In the French version, it's Julio Iglesias.

And since American TV show hosts are not so well known in France, the "Here's Johnny!/David Letterman!/60 Minutes" joke is radically changed: Homer smashes through the first door, says "It's the ogre! ... D'oh!" He breaks through the second door, says, "It's the Big Bad Wolf!" and Grampa says "Oh, then I must be Little Red Riding Hood." And when Homer breaks open the third door, he says (bearing in mind that the translators have to explain why he's holding a watch) "Enjoy your last few seconds alive, 'cause the Big Bad Wolf is gonna huff and puff and blow this door down!"

Also, the Tony Awards became the opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics ("And now, the children of the world's nations sing together!") Heh.

Originally Posted by Hydro

And since American TV show hosts are not so well known in France, the "Here's Johnny!/David Letterman!/60 Minutes" joke is radically changed: Homer smashes through the first door, says "It's the ogre! ... D'oh!" He breaks through the second door, says, "It's the Big Bad Wolf!" and Grampa says "Oh, then I must be Little Red Riding Hood." And when Homer breaks open the third door, he says (bearing in mind that the translators have to explain why he's holding a watch) "Enjoy your last few seconds alive, 'cause the Big Bad Wolf is gonna huff and puff and blow this door down!"

why didn't they just find french equivalents for the latter two? that translation totally misses the joke, which is a part of the parody of the shining which is the whole goshdarned point of the story. foreign translations should stick to just translating the episode and not revising it to shamlessly pander to whatever foreign audience they're doing it for. after all, the numerous america-orientated jokes hardly affect the popularity of the show in the UK and australia...

yeah I agree that..... even tho it would be kind hard for people to actually understand what they are talking about even tho we are next to the USA, I like it because I do understand them but u can bet a lot of people are WTF are they talking about

Well, humor is hard to translate, as is dubbing on a whole. Essentially, you have to time it to the mouth movements (or go the Polish route and just speak over the english version!) and still get the point across. Also, there are things that don't translate well, like word plays. So, the writers translating it into whatever language they do it for are trying to appeal to the average person. If they do not know of David Letterman in Finland, then what good is it just leaving the joke the same?

On a related point - wouldn't it be awesome if they provided translations on the DVD for the world language feature. Without it, it is simply a little novelty with no value, except for a little chuckle. I don't just want to know how it sounds in the foreign language, I want to know what they are saying, just for comparisons sake. Do it like the Monty Python and The Holy Grail In Japanese feature.

that'll be nice

Originally Posted by Mohammed Jafar

why didn't they just find french equivalents for the latter two?

It's a weak joke in translation, for sure, but not a weak translation; there's a very good reason for not substituting equivalent French TV personalities for Mike Wallace, Morley Safer, and Ed Bradley. Although the show is broadcast in the French language, the characters are still American and the show is still set in the United States. It would make as much sense for all-American Homer Simpson to be namedropping Patrick Poivre d'Arvor, as it would be for a character on a French TV show, who lives in France in a typical distinctly French town and is considered the Average Rank-and-File Frenchman, to talk in a dubbed English voice about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, just because the show is being rebroadcast on an American channel.

A lot of the appeal of The Simpsons in France is that it gives a version of American life which the French can feel superior to and yet still empathize with; sort of like Americans acknowledging their faults -- among which, we can all agree, is our general ignorance of foreign cultures. (To underline this, the French voice actors even give the family American accents, which is unusual for dubbed shows.) That distinctive American-ness is part of the show's charm over there, and given the unfortunate (and rare) choice between replacing a good joke with a mediocre one -- the "Big Bad Wolf" option -- and making Homer sound like a Frenchman familiar with French culture rather than an American who only knows beer, sports, and American TV, it's generally better for the two people who do the translation (both professional English-to-French translators of decades' experience who have been writing the French dialogue since the first season) to choose the Big Bad Wolf. Most of the time, of course, they're able to replace the jokes that can't cross cultural boundaries with "universal" ones -- like substituting the opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics for the Tony Awards -- which still retain the humor.

Originally Posted by Mohammed Jafar

revising it to shamlessly pander to whatever foreign audience they're doing it for.

Er, isn't that exactly what you suggested they do in the first sentence of your post?

Originally Posted by Mohammed Jafar

after all, the numerous america-orientated jokes hardly affect the popularity of the show in the UK and australia

You're a lot more familiar with the US than most Brits, but I'm sure the vast majority of anglophone Simpsons fans from outside North America don't fully get jokes like "I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montréal Expos!" "And I'm Esteban Yan of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays!" (Even if an Australian viewer realises that they're obviously talking about baseball players and teams, he's not even getting a small fraction of the intended joke; that little scene is steeped heavily in decades of cultural context, which would take a while to explain to him but which are obvious to Americans) And there's tons of references like that on the show.

Also, viewers overseas who watch the show in the original English are more likely to get these references than francophone viewers, because English-language culture penetrates best those areas where English is the main language spoken. Nearly all Brits seeing "Treehouse of Horror V" will get the "Heeeeeere's Johnny!" parody because they watched The Shining in the original language, and part of the reason that it's just as popular a film among the British as it is here is that the movie is in their native language and thus they're more likely to have seen it. Because of the language difference, a non-anglophone Frenchman, Japanese, or Hungarian is less likely to have seen The Shining at all (and he would have required subtitles or dubbing, if he had) and thus is less likely to get the spoken reference, or for the same reason, to have seen any of the many English-language parodies of that scene. ("The Shinning" benefits in this regard from having a lot of visual references.)

To bring this all back to your comment about the translated dialogue from "The Shinning," a translator can't merely stick in a line like "Je m'appelle Mike Wallace, je m'appelle Morley Safer, et je m'appelle Ed Bradley; tout ça et Andy Rooney, ce nuit sur 60 Minutes" and expect his French audience to understand what the hell is going on (especially what the stopwatch is doing there). The vast majority of the audience wouldn't even get the joke about the connection between "Here's Johnny" and "David Letterman." So the "Big Bad Wolf" line is a compromise between having a trio of puzzling non-sequitur Homer lines about people your audience has never heard of, and completely replacing the names with those of French television presenters.

Originally Posted by Silentpunk000

Essentially, you have to time it to the mouth movements (or go the Polish route and just speak over the english version!)

True; timing is an issue. Sometimes the French animation is played slightly slower or sped up to match the spoken lines.

Originally Posted by Silentpunk000

Also, there are things that don't translate well, like word plays.

The Simpsons French translators are really good at coming up with translating plays on words -- in "Duffless," when Marge makes Homer promise "no beer for a month" and he repeats it as "deer," a reworking of the joke is necessary because the two words don't sound alike in French. So they came up with Marge swearing Homer off "bière" (beer) for a month and Homer promises, "No prière (praying) for a month" -- which fits in perfectly with the running joke from that era about Homer being a lousy Christian and is, in my opinion, better than the original joke.

It's now on the Channel, but "read more" links to a google image search.

Since we're on the topic of languages, for foreign language DVD features, I would prefer them providing the different languages for different episodes, rather than having 8 languages for one episode.

Originally Posted by Hydro

The Simpsons French translators are really good at coming up with translating plays on words -- in "Duffless," when Marge makes Homer promise "no beer for a month" and he repeats it as "deer," a reworking of the joke is necessary because the two words don't sound alike in French. So they came up with Marge swearing Homer off "bière" (beer) for a month and Homer promises, "No prière (praying) for a month" -- which fits in perfectly with the running joke from that era about Homer being a lousy Christian and is, in my opinion, better than the original joke.

I learn something new everyday. That's a nice bit of trivia.

Originally Posted by Tibor

would have been a grade-a parody article. though it needs a feud between the voice of senor burns and al jean's non-union mexican equivalent.

That reference was excellent.

I think that there should be some middle point where they both meet. The American voice actors are grossly overpaid, and their non-union Mexican counterparts are grossly underpaid.

The Spanish voice of Homer did die after season 11. That's the voice of the version from Spain.
In Latin America there's a different Spanish version, which is the one in which the voice of Bart was replaced during season 9.
Interestingly, that voice change happened over a salary dispute shortly after the 1998 'strike' of the English version actors. The current dispute also happens shortly after bitter negotiations with the same actors. I wonder if those things are related somehow, like 20th Century Fox not feeling like spending any more money after giving the original actors huge raises or something.

Originally Posted by Hydro

It's a weak joke in translation, for sure, but not a weak translation; there's a very good reason for not substituting equivalent French T V personalities for Mike Wallace, Morley Safer, and Ed Bradley. Although the show is broadcast in the French language, the characters are still American and the show is still set in the United States. It would make as much sense for all-American Homer Simpson to be namedropping Patrick Poivre d'Arvor, as it would be for a character on a French TV show, who lives in France in a typical distinctly French town and is considered the Average Rank-and-FileFrenchman, to talk in a dubbed English voice about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, just because the show is being rebroadcast on an American channel.

A lot of the appeal of The Simpsons in France is that it gives a version of American life which the French can feel superior to and yet still empathize with; sort of like Americans acknowledging their faults -- among which, we can all agree, is our general ignorance of foreign cultures. (To underline this, the French voice actors even give the family American accents, which is unusual for dubbed shows.) That distinctive American-ness is part of the show's charm over there, and given the unfortunate (and rare) choice between replacing a good joke with a mediocre one -- the "Big Bad Wolf" option -- and making Homer sound like a Frenchman familiar with French culture rather than an American who only knows beer, sports, and American TV, it's generally better for the two people who do the translation (both professional English-to-French translators of decades' experience who have been writing the French dialogue since the first season) to choose the Big Bad Wolf. Most of the time, of course, they're able to replace the jokes that can't cross cultural boundaries with "universal" ones -- like substituting the opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics for the Tony Awards -- which still retain the humor.

i see. though i find an important part of the "distinctive American-ness" to be those strictly american references. such as tv shows, and particularly the more obscure cultural waste like the tony awards.

Originally Posted by Hydro

Er, isn't that exactly what you suggested they do in the first sentence of your post?

well, at least that would somewhat retain the joke.

Originally Posted by Hydro

You're a lot more familiar with the US than most Brits, but I'm sure the vast majority of anglophone Simpsons fans from outside North America don't fully get jokes like "I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montréal Expos!" "And I'm Esteban Yan of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays!" (Even if an Australian viewer realises that they're obviously talking about baseball players and teams, he's not even getting a small fraction of the intended joke; that little scene is steeped heavily in decades of cultural context, which would take a while to explain to him but which are obvious to Americans) And there's tons of references like that on the show.

yes, particular gags may go over the heads of many, but what i said was that the fact that many do does not affect the popularity of the show in the slightest in other english-speaking regions. i dont think french viewers would fly into a rage, turn off the tv and scream "ahhhh, qui est david letterman?" were it just translated directly. after all, many gags in the show go over the heads of many american viewers for other reasons.

Originally Posted by Perplatado

The Spanish voice of Homer did die after season 11. That's the voice of the version from Spain.
In Latin America there's a different Spanish version, which is the one in which the voice of Bart was replaced during season 9.
Interestingly, that voice change happened over a salary dispute shortly after the 1998 'strike' of the English version actors. The current dispute also happens shortly after bitter negotiations with the same actors. I wonder if those things are related somehow, like 20th Century Fox not feeling like spending any more money after giving the original actors huge raises or something.

But If i'm not mistaken this time is about the dubbing company anot wanting to accept the contract of all the actors, something like they changed their legal name and now they don't wanna use them, u know, really fucked up... The weird thing is that it seems that 20th Century Fox is taking a blind eye on that problem, which is weird since once i remember reading that Matt was part of the casting for dubbing voices, wanting to keep the quality and stuff.

Originally Posted by Valhum

But If i'm not mistaken this time is about the dubbing company anot wanting to accept the contract of all the actors, something like they changed their legal name and now they don't wanna use them, u know, really fucked up... The weird thing is that it seems that 20th Century Fox is taking a blind eye on that problem, which is weird since once i remember reading that Matt was part of the casting for dubbing voices, wanting to keep the quality and stuff.

It's not that simple. The problem is not with the Simpsons actors in particular, but with the union. There are some issues with the union that, if not solved, would imply that they would change the Simpsons cast. But it's not a direct negotiation.
I've been following this for the last few days. The negotiations are ongoing, and it looks to me that the announcement of the replacement of the Simpsons voices is part of those negotiations, in the same way that Fox talked about the original cast being on 'strike'.
For those interested, I've compiled the facts and pseudo-facts, in Spanish, in my site.

Also, as far as I know Groening was not involved in the casting for the dubbed versions. Groening himself says in the commentary for Like Father, Like Clown that Jay Kogen was the one who cast the voices, and they mention him traveling to Mexico City, Germany and I think France. Al Jean also talks about declining an offer to take that trip and regretting it later.
The story of Groening casting the Spanish voices originated from the actors themselves, who used to claim that (they haven't done that for a while, and they haven't mentioned that in the course of this conflict).

Wouldn't it all be better if they just had spanish subtitles?

*crickets chirp*

Originally Posted by bryce

Wouldn't it all be better if they just had spanish subtitles?

Yes it would. But there are reasons for the dubbing:
-Some people figure "it's a cartoon, so it's for kids, kids can't read, we have to dub it".
-Some countries have laws requiring the (open, not cable) TV programming to be in Spanish.

Of course, the English version can always be heard on the SAP channel of Canal Fox. That's what I do.

Originally Posted by Jake

I wonder if there's a guy who does the Spanish version of the Bumble Bee Guy.

That's the #1 question I get about the Spanish version from people who never heard it. Yes, the bumblebee man is translated into Spanish, someone does the voice and the lines sometimes change, even when it's not necessary (in 22 Short Films About Springfield the Spanish is awful and wouldn't be right not to re-translate it).
Of course, a big part of the joke is lost, as the guy talks in the same language as everybody else.

There are some (non-Spanish-speaking) countries where the show is aired in English with subtitles in the local language -- If I'm not wrong, Sweden, Finland, and the Netherlands are among these.

We still miss Carlos Revilla, our seasons 1-11 Homer (RIP). He was replaced by Carlos Ysbert, whose Homer voice is not as good as Revilla's, but still he's doing a great job.

The Bumble Bee Man (Hombre Abejorro) is also dubbed and re-translated here. As Perplatado said, the spanish used in the original version is sometimes so bad they just HAVE TO do it.
Oh, and the line of the John Denver special didn't change here. They say John Denver, too.

Pretty interesting observations about the various ways that the show is translated above.

Obviously, a lot of jokes are lost in translation. A lot of information always is, in any medium.

There isn't really a set standard of what gets translated and what references get "localized" or "universalized" - it's left, for the overwhelming part, up to the local syndicating systems, with Fox getting perpetual use of and access to the dubs if they want them. Fox prefers to let the local broadcaster set the parameters and oversee it, on the theory that they're far more in touch with what the local viewers would 'get' and enjoy.

Gracie used to be more involved with and approve of the dubbing casts back in the very early seasons - when there was only 3 or 4 languages required, not now that the show is syndicated world-wide.

This is a labor issue solely for the Mexican broadcaster to deal with - they pay a flat fee for rights to Fox, and they set the budget for the translation, and also have to deal with the Mexican actors union. I'm sure Fox is glad that its not their headache. Writing Fox (or Matt for that matter,) is pointless.

I certainly hope that they don't resort to hiring the cast's "non-union Mexican equivalents", since it seems like these folks are making their own union's scale.

Originally Posted by Hydro

You're a lot more familiar with the US than most Brits, but I'm sure the vast majority of anglophone Simpsons fans from outside North America don't fully get jokes like "I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montréal Expos!" "And I'm Esteban Yan of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays!" (Even if an Australian viewer realises that they're obviously talking about baseball players and teams, he's not even getting a small fraction of the intended joke; that little scene is steeped heavily in decades of cultural context, which would take a while to explain to him but which are obvious to Americans) And there's tons of references like that on the show.

What is the joke? I assumed they were talking about fairly crap/unknown players from teams which were fairly poor/no longer existed.

I can't say I am as concerned with the Spanish voice actors as the genuine voice actors going on strike.

Originally Posted by Shuter

What is the joke? I assumed they were talking about fairly crap/unknown players from teams which were fairly poor/no longer existed.

It's become a cliché among overly sentimental 1990s-2000s Hollywood movies and TV shows that are set in the 1900s-to-early-'60s to include a scene of children playing baseball, because that's sort of a metaphorical shorthand for an idealized, nostalgic version of a "golden age" in American history. Baseball is no longer as popular among Americans as it was back then (it's been surpassed by football and basketball) and so we see a lot of hackneyed talk in newspaper editorials and documentaries and movies about baseball as metaphor for that lost American innocence, and they almost always include a reference to how kids once used broomsticks for bats down at the ol' sandlot so they could imitate their heroes.

The scene in C.E.D'oh turns this cliché on its ear in several different ways:

1. Both the Expos and the Devil Rays were formed after the "golden age" of baseball; the Devil Rays only started playing in 1998, whereas the kids in the soft-focus-lens Hollywood cliché followed teams with long and storied histories that go back more than a century. The Montreal Expos reference plays off the fact that they were the first team to be based outside the US, and as such have long been regarded as something of an oddball, in sharp contrast to the vision of all-American boys playing the American national pasttime.

2. It subverts the idea of baseball as being uniquely American; boys in the 1950's idolized players with Anglo-Saxon names like Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams, whereas there were very few Dominican players (like Yan) back then and no Japanese players (like Ohka) until 10 years ago. This colors the sepia-toned nostalgia by bringing modern multiculturalism into it -- and while nobody today vocally objects to Hispanic or Asian baseball players, introducing (or "forcing") multiculturalism into cherished American institutions is something that gets more than a few Yanks cross.

3. As noted above, American kids almost never play baseball for fun anymore, outside of organized play like Little League (and even that has been declining in popularity for years). So it's supposed to be a bit of an intentional anachronism.

4. As you correctly surmised, neither of them are outstanding players in any way, and both teams have historically been very bad, so it's funny that Bart and Milhouse are "idolizing" them. This is the one facet of the joke that I think most viewers outside the Western Hemisphere would pick up on.