Think the Simpsons Staff Can Think Of Genius Ideas Today, But can't expand it into a Great Episode?

[shoz999]

Okay, How many of you think That The Simpson Staff of The Modern Simpsons can come up with great ideas for episodes, but can't plan or write the episode the way it's envisioned or the way it is. Take for example, Moe's In Rag and Riches. The many many responses of the announcement of this episode, were positive. They thought the idea of looking back to history through a talking Rag was genius... yet when they watched the episode when it finally came out, out came very negative responses, most of them who said the idea was genius. Than someone said, "Maybe if this was the classic era, they could've done this right. The Idea is Genius but not The Plot". That got me thinking, what if The Simpsons Staff can still come up with genius ideas comparable to a Classic Simpson Episode, yet no matter how clever or genius this idea is, they can't seem to plan it out, such as carefully place witty humor, place emotional scenes in the right parts and when the final script is out, it makes the idea seem no more clever anymore. Basically what I'm saying, do you think The Simpson Staff still can come up with pretty damn good ideas but can't seem to expand that idea into a wonderful episode?

[Lance.Uppercut]

I take a more holistic view to it. I think that all premises have the potential to be interesting scripts - thought-provoking, emotionally satisfying stories. It can be in the execution, particularly in the "jokes" the writers choose to include in the more recent episodes, that can drag things down a little. That's typically where people find their dissatisfaction in the post-classic era, at least from my perspective: interesting ideas, shoddy execution. I've seen many episodes with potentially interesting premises dragged down by poor choices for jokes or plot devices which come out of nowhere (Brawl in the Family). I've had the opposite happen to me, where I've considered a plot device to be a little too hackneyed or one-dimensional in the preview (still with potential, but just cautiously optimistic) but have been pleasantly surprised by the results (most recently, The Book Job and The Food Wife).

The same episode tropes appear - birthdays, romances, a project or job a character takes on (like Homer being a baseball mascot or Lisa creating a new social networking site) - but the focus has shifted away from emotion-driven character portraits and somber, sometimes even maudlin moments to more traditional sitcom fodder. The same situations will also pop up from time to time through the course of the series, but you can see the shift in focus in these smaller moments as well. Take Homer's suicide attempts, for example (and pardon me if I'm being macabre). In S1, it's the climax of an emotionally gripping scene. In S13 and S20, when he tries to kill himself a second and third time, it's played up for laughs. The shift has gone from introspective stories with subversive humor to less subtle, punny gags. The jokes come not from the characters' banter or inner personality flaws; "funny" things just happen to them.

To answer your question, yes, I think the staff are capable of crafting episodes which can be both funny and emotionally satisfying. I don't mean to criticize one side of the spectrum or the other as "better" or "worse" than its counterpart, although many have become dissatisfied with the newer style altogether. Personally, I think there are plenty of post-classic episodes which work very, very well, both in concept and execution (The Seemingly Never-Ending Story, Girls Just Want to Have Sums, Eternal Moonshine of the Simpson Mind). There are still emotionally hard-hitting moments (the last segment of Simpsons Christmas Stories, the whale's death in The Squirt and the Whale), and the show still makes me laugh out loud (the blimp scenes in 500 Keys, the last segment of The Fight Before Christmas). We just have to accept the different approach to humor. As far as plots appearing similar to one another, well, The Simpsons isn't the first long-running show to have it happen, nor will it be the last.

[ManiacalRoboKiller]

But a talking bar rag was never a clever idea.....it felt like an idea ball from the Family Guy manatee tank.....

[shoz999]

But a talking bar rag was never a clever idea.....it felt like an idea ball from the Family Guy manatee tank.....

So... I guess a Dictator Running An Operation Involving Threatening The Worlds Government and Taking Over The Pacific, AKA Hank Scorpio in "You Only Move Twice" which is unrealistic yet so well made, yet won multiple awards, praised by both critics and fans, and that Tom Hanks Guest Appearance was considered to be the best Guest Appearance by many fans is also... an idea ball from Family Guy Manatee Tank? Just because it's unrealistic doesn't mean it's a Family Guy Idea. Heck, their are some well-made Classic Simpson Episode besides, "You Only Move Twice" that are twice as unrealistic yet popular. A talking bar rag would work really well, if done right with a proper script. Again, just because it's unrealistic doesn't mean it's a Family Guy Idea, because if it was, you might as well include King Of The Hill, Futurama, Bob's Burgers, and several other award-winning shows that has at least one unrealistic yet popular episode as a Family Guy Rip-Off. In fact, most of these ideas are original, and if their reused, their reused from original ideas from The Simpsons Staff. The problem is, they need a proper script that can make such a genius idea work properly, and the talking bar rag would work really well if done right. You see my point?

[The Governor]

Maybe they see each episode as a deadline and not as a whole, cohesive narrative.

[Lance.Uppercut]

It feels like Moe Goes from Rags to Riches is the punching bag here. I'm not saying, by any extension, that it deserves universal praise. But, I feel I should mention: the premises in episodes have sometimes been silly, maybe even nonsensical (Homer fleeing PBS and subsequently becoming a missionary, or Bart preventing a tragedy with one of his pranks, obtaining a driver's license from the mayor and starting a relationship with a pregnant teenager), but they are nonetheless creative. And this is not just from the post-classic era: Homer the baseball mascot? Bart wins an elephant? Where do we draw the line? One cannot separate creativity or novelty from schlock only because we don't like the premise.

It's one of the foibles of animation; animation allows such things to happen that would be so much more difficult to do in live-action. Things can be fantastical for the purpose of pulling a story along (think of Lisa's Wedding, Eternal Moonshine of the Simpson Mind or Take My Life, Please). If you want to talk about The Simpsons becoming uncreative or unrealistic, imagine how fans of The Flintstones felt back in the day. The first season had episodes that dealt with infertility and dishonesty. Then what? Then they brought in The Great Gazoo, made Pebbles and Bam-Bam sing in a band as young children and, in one ep, Fred swallowed pills that turned him into an ape. Sure, it's a stone age family, but plots began to just seem like some sort of proto-Family Guy.

And The Simpsons has done format-benders in the show from way before Rags to Riches, and even in the comics as well. I feel like I'm going to get lambasted for praising or even bringing up the comics (which, to their credit, do have interesting plots and jokes from time to time).

I just think it'd be a disservice to the show to dismiss episode quality solely based on how old the show is. King of the Hill and Family Guy have also gone through transition phases (although perhaps theirs are just not as talked about) wherein, over time, episodes become more spastic and where the humor turns to "jokey jokes" as opposed to earlier, plot-focused affairs.

The ability for the staff to make creative, emotionally-driven episodes is still there; it's just in a different frame of narration and, for the fans, a different frame of mind.

[cloneasaurus]

It feels like Moe Goes from Rags to Riches is the punching bag here. I'm not saying, by any extension, that it deserves universal praise. But, I feel I should mention: the premises in episodes have sometimes been silly, maybe even nonsensical (Homer fleeing PBS and subsequently becoming a missionary, or Bart preventing a tragedy with one of his pranks, obtaining a driver's license from the mayor and starting a relationship with a pregnant teenager), but they are nonetheless creative. And this is not just from the post-classic era: Homer the baseball mascot? Bart wins an elephant? Where do we draw the line? One cannot separate creativity or novelty from schlock only because we don't like the premise.

those episodes are about the main characters, the characters we watch the show for. by contrast, Rags to Riches was about a bar rag which we were expected to care about. chuck in an out of place - and badly done - subplot and you've got one of the most boring and unfunny episodes ever.

[lolcats]

That's all different. The Simpsons has had strange unrealistic ideas in the past, but they sounded funny, and with the right writers, we got some clever episodes. A talking rag, on the other hand, is an idea that belongs on a children's show. It's not clever, not funny. I don't understand how a show that produced such episodes like ''Mother Simpson'' can even dare think about ''OMG TALKING BAR RAG THIS IS BEAUTIFUL AND FUNNY.'' It's not a good idea, and it could never have a good execution.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to watch this:


While you go into a dark corner and watch this:

[shoz999]

That's all different. The Simpsons has had strange unrealistic ideas in the past, but they sounded funny, and with the right writers, we got some clever episodes. A talking rag, on the other hand, is an idea that belongs on a children's show. It's not clever, not funny. I don't understand how a show that produced such episodes like ''Mother Simpson'' can even dare think about ''OMG TALKING BAR RAG THIS IS BEAUTIFUL AND FUNNY.'' It's not a good idea, and it could never have a good execution.

The Idea Of THat Episode was about a Bar Rag Explaining His History, to me that sounds like an idea that's comparable to a Simpson Episode. In fact, if this was the Classic Simpsons and had a great script where plot details and witty humor stayed intact, that episode could win an emmy. By the looks of that message going with your picture, you are saying that because you are basing it on the entire plot of the episode that has recieved many negative responses that exist rather than having the thought of how much potiential the idea has for a ground breaking story if done right. "If You Only Move Twice" was not done right, like "Moe From Rags To Riches" it too would be a flop, thought about that? But it was done right and what if "Moe From Rags To Riches" could be done right. In fact, it's not just that idea, idea's like "Politically Inept With Homer Simpson" and "The D'ohcial Network" are ideas, not the actual plot iteslf, have the potiental if done right with the proper script to be a success rather than a flop. You get it now? You should realize that most of The Simpson Staff's, heck maybe all the ideas, are genius or evolved or reused from a different idea, YET can't be made perfectly without a proper script. Scripts can make the most greatest ideas into either the Greatest or Worst Episodes made.

[Dark Homer]

So... I guess a Dictator Running An Operation Involving Threatening The Worlds Government and Taking Over The Pacific, AKA Hank Scorpio in "You Only Move Twice" which is unrealistic yet so well made, yet won multiple awards, praised by both critics and fans, and that Tom Hanks Guest Appearance was considered to be the best Guest Appearance by many fans is also... an idea ball from Family Guy Manatee Tank? Just because it's unrealistic doesn't mean it's a Family Guy Idea. Heck, their are some well-made Classic Simpson Episode besides, "You Only Move Twice" that are twice as unrealistic yet popular. A talking bar rag would work really well, if done right with a proper script. Again, just because it's unrealistic doesn't mean it's a Family Guy Idea, because if it was, you might as well include King Of The Hill, Futurama, Bob's Burgers, and several other award-winning shows that has at least one unrealistic yet popular episode as a Family Guy Rip-Off. In fact, most of these ideas are original, and if their reused, their reused from original ideas from The Simpsons Staff. The problem is, they need a proper script that can make such a genius idea work properly, and the talking bar rag would work really well if done right. You see my point?

Why Do You Type Like This All The Time

[lolcats]

Why Do You Type Like This All The Time

Because He Is A Kidergardin Droupout ! ! !

[Malaise Forever]

For me (and I think for some others..), I think it all depends on Season 24. It has the best sounding ideas since season 20 IMO and it makes me want to see how they will be developped.

Funny how Al Jean repeatively say the hardest part is coming with ideas but like this season, they had interesting material to work with but they end up like D'oh-cial and Moe's Rag.

So, I'm giving Season 24 a go and if it does not deliver, I will probably go back to watch once in a while until they have a new showrunner in charge or for the final season.

[The Governor]

Every new season has the 'best sounding ideas.' Where's the shitty season where every synopsis looks like shit and then it turns out to not be shit!?

[Jims]

I'm basically in the same boat as @Lance.Uppercut, in that all of their recent premises have potential with the right execution. Yes, even the talking rag episode. If you really think about it, it would actually be possible to do a format-bending episode about the history of the rag (but actually being a character study of Moe) and make it interesting. It's just that the writers constantly make puzzling choices in their execution, like going far back in time or bringing in a yeti. Nobody cares about the rag, we care about Moe.

The Simpsons have been on the air long enough that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on the premise... Each season it's going to be more and more difficult to come up with a truly unique premise. If it's going to be another Homer and Marge marriage crisis, then fine. I just want a different spin on the concept than usual.

[shoz999]

Dont really know why I type like that. Guess its just a weird habit from time to time.

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

The Idea Of THat Episode was about a Bar Rag Explaining His History, to me that sounds like an idea that's comparable to a Simpson Episode. In fact, if this was the Classic Simpsons and had a great script where plot details and witty humor stayed intact, that episode could win an emmy. By the looks of that message going with your picture, you are saying that because you are basing it on the entire plot of the episode that has recieved many negative responses that exist rather than having the thought of how much potiential the idea has for a ground breaking story if done right. "If You Only Move Twice" was not done right, like "Moe From Rags To Riches" it too would be a flop, thought about that? But it was done right and what if "Moe From Rags To Riches" could be done right. In fact, it's not just that idea, idea's like "Politically Inept With Homer Simpson" and "The D'ohcial Network" are ideas, not the actual plot iteslf, have the potiental if done right with the proper script to be a success rather than a flop. You get it now? You should realize that most of The Simpson Staff's, heck maybe all the ideas, are genius or evolved or reused from a different idea, YET can't be made perfectly without a proper script. Scripts can make the most greatest ideas into either the Greatest or Worst Episodes made.

Plot and script are different things, a script are a bunch of papers for actors to read on in order to say their lines and perform their actions based on the plot while the plot is something that forms the basis of the episode, from the chatacters to the moments to the sudden twist. While it is true they can come up with great or even at some times brilliant ideas, they need to expand on that idea otherwise it's just an idea; think of it this way, The rag episode would of still been stupid but had it been properly plotted, it would of been a potential masterpiece as it would of showcased the rag through the history of "Moe's", it's good times and it's bad times; instead it turned out to be a wash full of Simpsons characters playing histories finest, "parodies" of histories most famous moments and an episode that didn't even mostly feature the rag in the first place, instead focusing on these characters and Bart and Milhouse who's subplot was a questionable addition to a format bender. Ideas come and go but the people need to properly expand on that idea, if they do decide to go through with it and they don't expand on it then well, it's an idea that turns from potential to wasted potential.

I commented on the thought of these ideas once before but I mostly stopped when I realize that I was going to be saying the same thing over and over again. "Good idea, bad execution."