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Thread: Why so negative??



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  1. #31


    Quote Originally Posted by Rango View Post
    Heh, there's a number of people here, believe it or not, that still like the Simpsons, but don't think it's the king shit of TV anymore. I mean, every time I read the statement the show's somehow better than most shows on TV, I feel you're saying it out of the fact other TV is bad because it's "not the Simpsons." Ask yourself: is the show still THAT great, or are you just doggedly loyal to the show's name?



    People will follow what they choose to follow, or not. You're trying to marginalize and pigeonhole opinions whom you disagree with. I could say your fandom is blinding you to the obvious FACT the show has gone downhill, but that's neither here nor there.



    You've only made one post here and you think you have the 'right' to tell us how this forum is SUPPOSED to be? Does this 'silent' majority just sit back and scoff at what's written online and pat each other on their backs, congratulating each other on how much more "superior" people they are just to drop in on the peasantry once in a while? Look, the people who talk about the show online watch the show, too, and their opinions have just as much weight as yours.



    You seem to harbor discriminatory feelings at those who don't love the show indiscriminately because those who don't like the show same the way you do are just whingers and whiners (your words). I was 14 when Season 1 premiered and I was old enough to understand the show was something more than a generic kiddie cartoon that just happened to air during the evenings. It wasn't until I was more educated when I realized the what made the show great and I certainly noticed when the show "evolved" from being something special to something that became a parody of itself that parades around like it thinks its still special. Silent majority, or whatever, popularity has nothing to do with quallity.
    Ooh, I've only made one post, so I have no right to say that this forum is full of whiners and whingers. Unfortunately, my point stands regardless of your flagrant logical fallacy (magisterial fallacy - the fact that I've only made one post has nothing to do with the validity of what I'm saying). I could just as well argue that my status as an outsider gives me the perspective to say exactly what I said.

    I get that people feel hurt by the fact that the show is still running when they have witnessed what they believe to be a precipitous decline in quality over the years. I get that others continue to watch the show hoping for an increase in quality, and are bitter when they don't see an effort on the part of the writers and producers.

    I don't think it is invalid to dislike the Simpsons, or to think that new episodes suck. I watch episodes or individual gags in episodes sometimes and feel embarrassed for the writers. I remember feeling this way viewing some classic-era episodes when they premiered. I also sometimes watch new episodes (like tonight's episode) that are excellent, and I head over to NHC wondering if anyone likes the episode as much as I did, or if everyone still thinks it is trash.

    I don't think any of us will have an accurate, somewhat subjective view of the overall level of quality of The Simpsons until long after the last original episode has aired. Our feelings of nostalgia can cause us to give a free pass to crappy episodes, and our feelings of bitterness can cause us to overlook hidden gems in even the worst seasons. Often, I have disliked an episode when it first aired, only to later see it in syndication, perhaps forgetting it was a later episode, and find myself laughing the whole way through.

    As I said in my original post, I am not a fan of every Simpsons episode, and I know plenty of people who no longer care for the show, but they don't spend time virulently complaining about it online. Many people here have a fixation on the show's decline in quality.

    There is nothing wrong with this negativity, in that it hurts no one - but all this negativity turns a community full of Simpsons fans, with lots of knowledge about a show that we can all at least agree was once a classic, into a forum full of negativity and sometimes what seems to be outright hatred, personally insulting the writers and producers of a cartoon show.

    Even those of you who hate the show in its current form may perhaps agree with me that on some level, the negativity gets way over the top on this forum. There is no solution for it - as you so aptly recognized, people here aren't going to let a couple of first or third-time posters tell them how to conduct themselves.

    I think what will happen is that three or four years after The Simpsons ends, the negativity here on NHC will go way down. People will no longer be calling for the show to be canceled, of course, but I also think there will be a renewed appreciation for the series as a whole in some cases, and at the very least, renewed appreciation for the classic era, untainted by the bitterness that currently pervades the board.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgo View Post
    Ooh, I've only made one post, so I have no right to say that this forum is full of whiners and whingers. Unfortunately, my point stands regardless of your flagrant logical fallacy (magisterial fallacy - the fact that I've only made one post has nothing to do with the validity of what I'm saying). I could just as well argue that my status as an outsider gives me the perspective to say exactly what I said.
    You probably don't know anything about me in particular, but as part of my Simpsons Spinoff fan art hobby and my job, for almost 10 years (1998-2008) I've spoken with close to 9,000 different people about the Simpsons doing informal, short surveys asking about the show's quality. Most people said it used to be better and they stopped watching while far fewer said the show was "okay" but they preferred Family Guy. I tried speaking with people about 15yrs old to people in their 40's.

    I get that people feel hurt by the fact that the show is still running when they have witnessed what they believe to be a precipitous decline in quality over the years. I get that others continue to watch the show hoping for an increase in quality, and are bitter when they don't see an effort on the part of the writers and producers.

    I don't think it is invalid to dislike the Simpsons, or to think that new episodes suck. I watch episodes or individual gags in episodes sometimes and feel embarrassed for the writers. I remember feeling this way viewing some classic-era episodes when they premiered. I also sometimes watch new episodes (like tonight's episode) that are excellent, and I head over to NHC wondering if anyone likes the episode as much as I did, or if everyone still thinks it is trash.
    It's human nature to want to push an issue you feel is important to be a catalyst for change, compared to the fewer who will 'defend' the show. Regardless if we feel the anger will change anything, it's more of a forum to vent. Personally, I could care less if anyone on the staff reads what I write because what I write is directed at people on this board.

    I don't think any of us will have an accurate, somewhat subjective view of the overall level of quality of The Simpsons until long after the last original episode has aired. Our feelings of nostalgia can cause us to give a free pass to crappy episodes, and our feelings of bitterness can cause us to overlook hidden gems in even the worst seasons. Often, I have disliked an episode when it first aired, only to later see it in syndication, perhaps forgetting it was a later episode, and find myself laughing the whole way through.
    That's where we differ. I don't have a "good old days" view of the show. I still give out 5/5's if the episode is good enough. This years "Holidays of Future Passed", IMO, is the best episode in 10 years. Ingrained nostalgia, comparing the Simpsons to other show's or self-appreciation has nothing to do with my grades of modern episodes.

    There is nothing wrong with this negativity, in that it hurts no one - but all this negativity turns a community full of Simpsons fans, with lots of knowledge about a show that we can all at least agree was once a classic, into a forum full of negativity and sometimes what seems to be outright hatred, personally insulting the writers and producers of a cartoon show.
    1. Instead of complaining about being in the minority, get some of the silent majority in here, make better 'arguments' and turn the negativity around and drown out the detractors, or do you feel scared about being made fun of by people who don't give a shit about you?

    2. "Of a cartoon show." Huh? The Simpsons ain't a kids show and it's better than being labled a generic-'cartoon' show, or is it a more noble thing to be fan of Star Trek because it uses real actors?

    I think what will happen is that three or four years after The Simpsons ends, the negativity here on NHC will go way down. People will no longer be calling for the show to be canceled, of course, but I also think there will be a renewed appreciation for the series as a whole in some cases, and at the very least, renewed appreciation for the classic era, untainted by the bitterness that currently pervades the board.
    If the show had ended, why would I want it cancelled?

  3. #33
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  4. #34


    Quote Originally Posted by Rango View Post
    You probably don't know anything about me in particular, but as part of my Simpsons Spinoff fan art hobby and my job, for almost 10 years (1998-2008) I've spoken with close to 9,000 different people about the Simpsons doing informal, short surveys asking about the show's quality. Most people said it used to be better and they stopped watching while far fewer said the show was "okay" but they preferred Family Guy. I tried speaking with people about 15yrs old to people in their 40's.



    It's human nature to want to push an issue you feel is important to be a catalyst for change, compared to the fewer who will 'defend' the show. Regardless if we feel the anger will change anything, it's more of a forum to vent. Personally, I could care less if anyone on the staff reads what I write because what I write is directed at people on this board.



    That's where we differ. I don't have a "good old days" view of the show. I still give out 5/5's if the episode is good enough. This years "Holidays of Future Passed", IMO, is the best episode in 10 years. Ingrained nostalgia, comparing the Simpsons to other show's or self-appreciation has nothing to do with my grades of modern episodes.



    1. Instead of complaining about being in the minority, get some of the silent majority in here, make better 'arguments' and turn the negativity around and drown out the detractors, or do you feel scared about being made fun of by people who don't give a shit about you?

    2. "Of a cartoon show." Huh? The Simpsons ain't a kids show and it's better than being labled a generic-'cartoon' show, or is it a more noble thing to be fan of Star Trek because it uses real actors?



    If the show had ended, why would I want it cancelled?
    There are people on the internet who don't give a shit about me? I am not sure about that. I am going to Google and Wikipedia it to make sure you're not mistaken.

    Congratulations on giving out 5/5s, like I give a shit. Likewise, I referred to some people wanting the show to be cancelled; if you don't want it to be cancelled, then you're clearly not one of those people, so what is the point of mentioning it?

    I am not going to spend more time to actively improve this board - partly because I'm scared of people on the internet who don't give a shit about me, and will therefore make fun of me, which if true pretty much proves my point about whiners - and partly because I already spent the time to throw in my two cents with the OP.

    Even people like you who so generously bestow 5/5s on episodes clearly have a knee-jerk negative reaction to fairly mild posts like the ones I made (mild, with the exception of the words "whiner" and "whinger," which are, in my view, eminently accurate). Why not relax and stop worrying so much about people you don't care about on the internet?

    As ephemeral as your post was, you got me dead-to-rights about the cartoon reference - it is just a way to underscore the absurdity of all the seething negativity on this board.

    I probably won't check this thread again - I've said my piece, and I can't abide people who don't care about me on the internet/people on the internet who don't care about me and/or choose to make fun of me. Wahhhhhhhhh!! I've got a nasty case of colic.

    P.S. Congratulations on your decade-long career as a Simpsons spinoff fan artist. You've apparently going for almost half as long as the series itself - no mean feat.

  5. #35
    I'm baaaack! Patches O'houlihan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgo View Post
    There are people on the internet who don't give a shit about me? I am not sure about that. I am going to Google and Wikipedia it to make sure you're not mistaken.
    Calm down. The "people not giving a shit" was how some posters here are afraid to say anything bad about the show because they don't want other people or the staff, who don't give a shit about them, to label them as Comic Book Guys.

    I am not going to spend more time to actively improve this board - partly because I'm scared of people on the internet who don't give a shit about me, and will therefore make fun of me, which if true pretty much proves my point about whiners - and partly because I already spent the time to throw in my two cents with the OP.
    You had a self-serving agenda, durrr. You might as well have said "I'm going to poke a bear with short stick and if it attacks me, it proves I'm right about bears being mean!" Two cents? You got what you paid for.

    Even people like you who so generously bestow 5/5s on episodes clearly have a knee-jerk negative reaction to fairly mild posts like the ones I made (mild, with the exception of the words "whiner" and "whinger," which are, in my view, eminently accurate). Why not relax and stop worrying so much about people you don't care about on the internet?
    Because you come from the magical land of the 'silent majority' Simpson fans that don't talk about the show on the lowly internets! But obviously, you must now 'want us to care'. Do you get dizzy from so much spin?

    As ephemeral as your post was, you got me dead-to-rights about the cartoon reference - it is just a way to underscore the absurdity of all the seething negativity on this board.
    Okay, elgo, it's not the negativity, it's you don't like it when people take the show more seriously than you. Obviously, the negativity must come from an idealist viewpoint that somehow doesn't jibe with your self-perceived "ultra-realist" viewpoint.

    I probably won't check this thread again - I've said my piece, and I can't abide people who don't care about me on the internet/people on the internet who don't care about me and/or choose to make fun of me. Wahhhhhhhhh!! I've got a nasty case of colic.
    Now you're just being defensive about being defensive. But the crux of the matter is you're just as bad as all the pompous, self-important, delusional people and anyone else who takes things too seriously that you feel post on this board, it's you are on the other side of the fence. And, by your own admissions your are too far above the rest of us for such a banal form of communication.

    P.S. Congratulations on your decade-long career as a Simpsons spinoff fan artist. You've apparently going for almost half as long as the series itself - no mean feat.
    It's not really a career, but if you want to talk a big game...


    Well, ya'know if you stay positive and forget about trivial things like "proper characterization," "Satire," and "emotional depth" watching new Simpsons episodes can be a seemingly enjoyable lie.

    "One of the keys to life is having a sense of proportion, knowing how long to sit at a restaurant after you've eaten, or how long you should go on vacation — if you go to Hawaii for a month on vacation, I guarantee you that by the end you'll hate it. So it's the same with a TV show, you want to do a certain amount of it, so that when people look back on it and they love it. I could have easily done the show for one or two or three more years, but it would have changed the way people look back at it. I think I made the right decision. Because people like the show now even more than they did in the 1990s, because it didn't get worn out." -- Jerry Seinfeld

  6. #36
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    One last thing since you're probably already responding to the other post: Do you post in other message boards and complain about other shows's critics? Here's a tip! If you don't like something, don't participate in it. And you seem to have disliked "The Simpsons" online fanbase for many years!

    Move on! Stop wasting time!

    Groening doesn't care about you. Never had.

    Find some other people you think you're better than!

  7. #37
    FULL TIME SIMPSONS NUT speedmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsomniaDealer View Post
    We have a valid reason for this negativity. Its simply because the show just isn't good anymore.
    You forgot to add "in your opinion" I like the show now... Seems it's not popular to say that on here though

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rango View Post
    Heh, there's a number of people here, believe it or not, that still like the Simpsons, but don't think it's the king shit of TV anymore. I mean, every time I read the statement the show's somehow better than most shows on TV, I feel you're saying it out of the fact other TV is bad because it's "not the Simpsons." Ask yourself: is the show still THAT great, or are you just doggedly loyal to the show's name?



    People will follow what they choose to follow, or not. You're trying to marginalize and pigeonhole opinions whom you disagree with. I could say your fandom is blinding you to the obvious FACT the show has gone downhill, but that's neither here nor there.



    You've only made one post here and you think you have the 'right' to tell us how this forum is SUPPOSED to be? Does this 'silent' majority just sit back and scoff at what's written online and pat each other on their backs, congratulating each other on how much more "superior" people they are just to drop in on the peasantry once in a while? Look, the people who talk about the show online watch the show, too, and their opinions have just as much weight as yours.



    You seem to harbor discriminatory feelings at those who don't love the show indiscriminately because those who don't like the show same the way you do are just whingers and whiners (your words). I was 14 when Season 1 premiered and I was old enough to understand the show was something more than a generic kiddie cartoon that just happened to air during the evenings. It wasn't until I was more educated when I realized the what made the show great and I certainly noticed when the show "evolved" from being something special to something that became a parody of itself that parades around like it thinks its still special. Silent majority, or whatever, popularity has nothing to do with quallity.
    I'm sorry but are you the only person on here who's opinion matters? If someone says they still like the show and it's better than most things on TV. That's what he believes.... Don't put your bullshit words in other peoples mouth.

  9. #39
    pineapple shoes Dark Homer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    You forgot to add "in your opinion" I like the show now... Seems it's not popular to say that on here though
    The "in your opinion" is implied

  10. #40


    Quote Originally Posted by elgo View Post
    There is a silent majority of us who like the show through its changes (which are part of life and necessary to keep going after so many years), and many others who don't care for the newer episodes but like back on the golden years fondly, not feeling bitter or entitled.
    If they're a silent majority, how do you know you have one at all? I'd wager that the heavily reduced viewing figures and their ever-changing list of least viewed episodes would suggest otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Señor Burns View Post
    More importantly, don't feel obliged to decry it on a forum for people who do like it.
    Actually, to my knowledge, this forum is for Simpsons discussion in general, not just positive discussion.

    Anyway, talking about sharing constructive criticism is nonsense. The writers aren't trolling here for writing tips and I don't believe anyone would feel afraid to post constructive criticism when every review thread has its share of 5/5 ratings. Perhaps I'm wrong and they're the posts they're taking into account.

    In any case, reading the criticisms and discussions on NoHomers provides me with considerably more entertainment than the episodes themselves. I think that's a valid as a reason as any to visit here.

  11. #41
    the master Ryan's Avatar
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    twenty-three seasons

  12. #42
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    This thread, oh god... LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    I'm sorry but are you the only person on here who's opinion matters? If someone says they still like the show and it's better than most things on TV. That's what he believes.... Don't put your bullshit words in other peoples mouth.
    It's not bullshit if it's true. When people say the worst episode of the show is better than 99.93939% of the rest of TV I can't look at my computer screen with a straight face.

  14. #44
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    Uh-oh! Look out Smithers!

    Ahahaha! I love this show.
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  15. #45


    My god, I have read some hilarious rubbish in here!

    In what sense is there a silent majority of simpsons fan who tolerate the poor episodes? If they don't post what is the point in their existence on a forum? The show has changed you say? It's aimed at kids pal, thats how it's changed, but it's ok, theres hd picture quality and even longer couch gags.
    Some people here don't understand forums, plain and simple. Of course people will complain on a forum, we don't need anything to complain about, we will do it fine without terrible new episodes and then people whining about people who haven't rated it a 4/5 or higher. The only whining going on in here is from yourselves, there is more than plenty of constructive criticism on here, it's just some people don't want ot hear it. They think a tv show is like a sports team, you show affiliation to it until you become some kind of die hard fan and spend your liftetime studying it, and give unwavering support to it even if you think it is going downhill, and convince yourself it's great, and that anyone you disagrees is a bad fan. No, a tv show is like any other form of media. If your favourite band released an album where every track was just continous farting, would you still rate it a 5/5? No you wouldn't, if your football team lost would you still support them? Yes, you'd still love the team or the club, even if the playing staff aren't that good.

    People here are fine to discuss the show, the classic era, guest stars, fan-fics, episode reviews, polls, whatever. We do it because we love the show, but we've come to terms with the simple fact it isn't as good, even if you think thats just opinion I'm sure we could defend it as a pure fact. We aren't still reeling from the show changing it's attitude and storytelling methods, I haven't even watched a new episode for at least four years, I'm here to discuss the show in general. If you like a new episode tell us why and we'll enter a debate, no-one is whining here but you. Seriously dude, have a rest.


  16. #46
    I'm not your friend-o Cartoonnetwork's Avatar
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    I kinda agree with Brad Lascelle. Maybe it's dellusional to think that the writers would take any advice from this site if it's written without anger and in a constructive way. I still think it's more satisfying than being utterly bitter about everything. Of course everybody can have an opinion an enjoy the forum like he wants. I don't want to get personal, but Rango/Le Jake in particular sounds like he's a little too angry and bitter at almost everything at this point, both the show and sometimes other people's opinions, maybe that's just his internet persona, but it does come up as "too negative" to me, even if I agree with a lot of his points and actually appreciate that he speaks the truth and sometimes some of us are a little too benevolent or dellusional in having at least a very little hope that the show could get better or the staff could maybe listen to their fans once in a lifetime. But the way some of you write everything it seems that you are too fed up and angry to even discuss good and bad points of the episodes. I'm not saying you necesarily give bad ratings to all of them but , with all respect, sometimes it looks that you'd better find yourself dead instead of accepting or understanding than some other people may have liked aspects of an episode you didn't like.
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  17. #47


    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    I'm sorry but are you the only person on here who's opinion matters? If someone says they still like the show and it's better than most things on TV. That's what he believes.... Don't put your bullshit words in other peoples mouth.
    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    In my eyes you're not a true fan if you have nothing positive to say....


    Wait, what? Maybe it's me, but I sense a disconnect here.

    Any who, as for negativity, BFD. If someone wants to call an episode the "worst episode ever," what difference does it make? Negativity is out of line when the critics are so full of rage that they try to shout down anyone that disagrees with them. Of course, it goes both ways - with people championing the show complaining that people "gasp!" might have different opinions. Then again, this is the Internet, where it's common practice. Regardless, no matter the opinion of the show, anyone that calls someone wrong on something purely subjective as a TV show is a jerk and needs to calm down.

    For my take, I think the show has gotten worse over the last decade - though there have certainly been episodes that I have enjoyed. What frustrates me about the show is that the writers are more prone to selling out characters for a cheap joke and appear content to spin their wheels rather than move forward. To me, the reason why "Holidays of Future Passed" was so great was because it shook things up and allowed for different (well, different than usual for this show) developments. I'm not saying do anything that radical to the status quo, but the show gets stale simply jogging in place for years on end. For every change that sticks (even if for only a little while), the reset button gets pushed and the same old stories get recycled. How many "Homer and Lisa bond" or "Bart's biggest prank" ever stories are there? (I realize that's not entirely fair, but they were the first ones to pop into my head.) And sometimes they don't even utilize the changes all that much. (Has Ned/Edna been featured at all since the big announcement last September? I'm not being sarcastic; I'm honestly asking because some episodes are a blur to me and things often slip my mind.)

    Well, that's all I got for this thread. Back to my mostly lurking approach.

  18. #48
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    Can someone just lock this fucking thread already?

  19. #49
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    Nah.

  20. #50
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    That makes a change

    (sorry dude, couldn't resist )

  21. #51
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    Think of it as a relationship. You're with the best significant other of your life, right? You love them, everything is perfect. Suddenly, they begin to change, and they become so different that soon you cannot even recognize them. Eventually, you break up, but it is slow and painful. You come back together every once in a while for meaningless hook-ups that sometimes leave you believing that, perhaps, something can once again come from your disappointing and dwindling relationship. Of course, it never does. Soon, you are referring to this person as a "bitch" or an "asshole" really any time that they disappoint you again. You put them down when they let you down. Such is the relationship of so many people on here with the Simpsons.
    It is easy to be obsessed with the Simpsons. Or at least, it was during the earlier seasons. I remember when I first started watching this show, I could not stop. It was like an addiction... unhealthy almost. I came into it less than a year ago so I only caught up a few months ago... till then, a lottt of my time was dedicated to the Simpsons. I'd like to think that it is not unusual on this website for one to be so infatuated with a TV show, hopefully other people can understand the kind of love that I am talking about. It is literally killing me that the 23rd season is so bad. I have all of the old, good episodes in my head, still so fresh, and it's disappointing to watch these new ones. I feel like I'm never going to get a truly good (good as in classic, I have liked some of the new episodes but for different reasons than my favorite, old ones) Simpsons episode again. This disappointment is making me awfully bitter. Thus, sometimes I post negative things, and I definitely recognize the show has gone quite downhill. I mean, I still love it and I'm clinging to it, I'll be devastated when it's cancelled, but I don't think that you can be a true fan of the show and NOT have anything negative to say about it. Pointing out the negatives just means that you've been dedicated enough for so many years to recognize the changes and that you are so upset by them (remember, you have to care about the show in order to be upset by its changes) that you actually go online to post about it. THE PEOPLE WHO POST ARE THE ONES WHO REALLY CARE!
    Plus, I secretly hope--and I feel like I must not be the only one--that writers from the show monitor this website, see our complaints, and then work to fix them... sigh... if only.

  22. #52
    Junior Camper kidpresentable's Avatar
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    its very easy to criticize. fun,too

  23. #53
    Chatting Simpsons Since 1993 Brad Lascelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rango View Post
    This coming from a guy who thinks it's somehow "wrong" to give an episode lower than a "3" because it's not proper fan etiquette.
    You must have forgotten my railing against the PABF production line a couple months back. Or the fact that I gave the first 5 episodes of said line scores of 2 or 1.
    Those were genuinely poor, lazy efforts. One of those episodes I still consider to be the worst episode the show's ever produced.

    Yet last night an episode aired, got a bunch of 5s (which means clearly a lot of people enjoyed it) and you go off the handle along with a handful of others and derail the entire Rate & Review thread to tell everyone how WRONG they are to have scored the episode so highly and how it was a piece of garbage because Bart was behaving "out of character". Heaven forbid they'd explore some new aspect of his personality after 23 years.

    Was the episode perfect? No. Does it make sense that Bart is having a mid-life crisis at the age of 10? Probably not but at least it was something different.

    You can go all-out with the vitriol when the on-screen product deserves it. The talking bar rag episode deserved it. However, when you launch an all-out bash session on an episode that clearly had a lot of effort put into it and was the last hurrah for one of the show's better screenwriters your apathy loses all meaning.

    Truth be told, it actually ISN'T delusional for a show's most loyal and passionate fan demographic to have input into the show they love. Not in this era where we have Twitter and blogs and countless ways to interact with people in the creative process. Who are you to say the writing staff doesn't care what their fans think? Of course they won't if you're ruthlessly critical about everything regardless of quality.

    Being a fan of animation, I've had the opportunity to interact both online and in person with screenwriters, audio engineers, voice artists, directors and others over the years and these people genuinely respond to well-constructed feedback (both praise and criticism) when it's conveyed respectfully and not dismissive of 95% of what they produce. They're not perfect and most of them understand that and do the best they can with the 22 minutes per episode they're given to deliver something uniquely memorable.

    If you treat every episode like it's Moe Goes From Rags to Riches and launch a diatribe that says "I'm not sure what's more fuct...the amount of 4/5s and 5/5s this will get or the actual episode. 0/5, if that was an option. Forth worst episode behind "D'ohed" "Abie" and "Gator"" ... well, you're wasting your breath. Your words really will have no meaning. You're effectively making yourself into the loony "fan board Simpsons nut" the writers often stereotype us as being. But it doesn't have to be that way. And it's certainly not a good way to encourage people to actively post and participate here.

    I've outright HATED episodes that have received a wealth of 4s and 5s on this board before. Do I go on a rant and tell people they're wrong? No, I simply zip my lip, agree to disagree and move on to the next episode.
    Last edited by Brad Lascelle; 04-30-2012 at 08:25 PM.

  24. #54
    I'm baaaack! Patches O'houlihan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Lascelle View Post
    Yet last night an episode aired, got a bunch of 5s (which means clearly a lot of people enjoyed it) and you go off the handle along with a handful of others and derail the entire Rate & Review thread to tell everyone how WRONG they are to have scored the episode so highly and how it was a piece of garbage because Bart was behaving "out of character". Heaven forbid they'd explore some new aspect of his personality after 23 years.
    Well, I'm not really sure, but in my experience as a 10yr old once, I remember being bored, but I never looked at life in a it's-getting-old-and repetetive way. Also, if you mean by 'derail', I'm sorry I took you happy train about the happy boat off the Selman-fan trax, but the episode was about a minute of good stuff, twenty minutes of shit on a stick with a minute sappy manipulative drivel at the end. Before it was over I was already shaking my head at all the 5/5's that I knew this was going to get.

    These debates get irrational because people stupidly associate criticisms with the modern show with the classic era:

    "If it was wacky now, it was wacky then, so you complaints have zero merit!"

    Uh, no the surreal humor back then had a level of cleverness that was written to be more than a visual gag or lazy way to move the plot along. The BAD surreal humor today is just there for the sake of being there, like all the lazy plot points in "A Totally...". Using the above excuse is a non argument. If you use it, you're a fucking retard.

    Was the episode perfect? No. Does it make sense that Bart is having a mid-life crisis at the age of 10? Probably not but at least it was something different.
    This is the definition of giving the show a free pass because you've lowered your standards. Why give the writers constructive criticism when you've become a yes-man. Granted you won't love everything, like a talking bar rag, but you get what I mean.

    You can go all-out with the vitriol when the on-screen product deserves it. The talking bar rag episode deserved it. However, when you launch an all-out bash session on an episode that clearly had a lot of effort put into it and was the last hurrah for one of the show's better screenwriters your apathy loses all meaning.
    ^^^This is what I mean by "proper fan etiquette. It's like you read the credits in advance and already had a grade in mind and are daring us to grade it different. It's like "HOW DARE YOU give this a poor grade because it was done by producer x!" (Personally, I'm beyond who does what with whom where and when and whatever with the show.)

    Truth be told, it actually ISN'T delusional for a show's most loyal and passionate fan demographic to have input into the show they love. Not in this era where we have Twitter and blogs and countless ways to interact with people in the creative process. Who are you to say the writing staff doesn't care what their fans think? Of course they won't if you're ruthlessly critical about everything regardless of quality.
    Wow, do you also believe that if you write a fan script in the I&S section, you'll be hired as a writer, too?

    Being a fan of animation, I've had the opportunity to interact both online and in person with screenwriters, audio engineers, voice artists, directors and others over the years and these people genuinely respond to well-constructed feedback (both praise and criticism) when it's conveyed respectfully and not dismissive of 95% of what they produce. They're not perfect and most of them understand that and do the best they can with the 22 minutes per episode they're given to deliver something uniquely memorable.
    I don't care what these people say, it's what they do and the end result of what they make that counts. I'm impressed you want to go behind the scenes and meet the talent behind the show. Great. Woo. But you're also allowing the "i've met that guy online so I just CAN'T say anything really bad about what he helped create." Again, if you want to give them affirmative action and give bonus points, be my guest. No one is stopping you. I gave out my bonus points a long time ago.

    If you treat every episode like it's Moe Goes From Rags to Riches and launch a diatribe that says "I'm not sure what's more fuct...the amount of 4/5s and 5/5s this will get or the actual episode. 0/5, if that was an option. Forth worst episode behind "D'ohed" "Abie" and "Gator"" ... well, you're wasting your breath. Your words really will have no meaning. You're effectively making yourself into the loony "fan board Simpsons nut" the writers often stereotype us as being. But it doesn't have to be that way. And it's certainly not a good way to encourage people to actively post and participate here.
    Once again, the writers don't care about you! Never will! And it's even more disturbing that you're probably saying: "God, those losers gave your wonderful episode such a low score, what a bunch of NERDS!!!!! God, Mr. Selman, you're my hero!!!!"

    I hope you're really not that sycophantic.

    I've outright HATED episodes that have received a wealth of 4s and 5s on this board before. Do I go on a rant and tell people they're wrong? No, I simply zip my lip, agree to disagree and move on to the next episode.
    You're doing the same thing with people who gave this beloved episode a "1" (or lower) .

  25. #55
    I'm not your friend-o Cartoonnetwork's Avatar
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    The point is this is not a personal war between people who liked the episodes and people who didn't like them. It's the fact that even when you recognize some good aspects of the episodes you'd still probably give it a 1/5 or something like that, and I think Brad is sort of right that this makes your further explanations lose meaning. I read all your reviews and I agree with most of what you say. But I disagree in the rating and how you find everything to be bad at the conclussion of most of them.

    You say there is only a good minute in the episode, yet you recognize several good parts in the episode that are not only during one minute. You recognize the ambition, the premise being good, the initial montage being well done, family on the cruise being cute and other things. It was simmilar with your review of How I Wet Your Mother or the 500 episode, as far as I remember. You -and Zombies too , just not to get too personal - use to mention good parts in the episodes, yet the rating will almost always be something like 1/5. It's almost as if you recognize those episodes are a little above average (at least for modern standards), yet you gave them the worst rating possible because they are not "good enough". 3/5 -and sometimes even 2/5- doesn't seem to be a frequent option if it's not up to your standards. If it's then it can easily get a 4/5 or even a 5/5, which makes me think that there are 2'5/5 and 3,5/5, that you round down to 2/5 or 1/5 just to point out the modern show sucks and doesn't deliver.

    Also, again using this last episode as an example, no, you don't really have to know that this episode was written by Matt Warburton and that it was his last episode or anything like that. But the onscreen result, whether it worked for you or not, it was clearly more ambitious than usual. It was visually more ambitious (the montage was different, the proportions of the cruise and the whole animated direction) and it was thematically more ambitious. It's not that the conflict is new and just the episode is good because of that, it's that they actually focussed on the conflict and gave a resolution/moral to it. Whether it was done "right" or not, it's clear that they put more effort in this one than usual.

    And well, even if it's not in very crucial ways I think nohomers may have ALREADY influenced the writers or the producers a little bit. Nohomers was mentioned in the audiocommentaries, which means at some point writers read it, maybe they didn't take any advice, maybe they did, I'm not saying they took notes but perhaps they found out something. They mentioned Jerkass Homer in Mommie Beerest or made a gag about "puns being bad comedy" when that complain was used in this board. I don't think it would be so much of a stretch to think they could read things like Homer and Marge marriage crisis being overused and people being fed up of it by reading this board and trying to stop those trends. It's just an example, not that's sure this has happened (they are not so frequente as they were in seasons 17-18, but maybe for other reasons), but maybe it helps. In the dvd commentary Al Jean also seemed to care about fans disliking the extreme re-design of Marge in Longs Arms Of The Ma and recognize he should have approved a less exaggerated design.
    Last edited by Cartoonnetwork; 05-01-2012 at 06:22 AM.

  26. #56
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    There is no emoticon for what I am feeling.

  27. #57
    I'm baaaack! Patches O'houlihan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartoonnetwork View Post
    ...yet you gave them the worst rating possible because they are not "good enough". 3/5 -and sometimes even 2/5- doesn't seem to be a frequent option if it's not up to your standards. If it's then it can easily get a 4/5 or even a 5/5, which makes me think that there are 2'5/5 and 3,5/5, that you round down to 2/5 or 1/5 just to point out the modern show sucks and doesn't deliver.
    An episode can have a few nice bits here and there, but if the overall feeling the episode was a massive waste of time, and for "A Totally..." despite having about two minutes of good scenes this episode felt like sappy manipulative drivel, which ruined any good feelings the episode brought up prior. It's like a used car of sorts--"yeah, it's got nice leather seating and a kick as radio, but the engine block's cracked and it needs major transmission work, but wow...look at those SEATS. I'll take it!".

    IMO, unless there's a major staff change (which won't happen, and it's big enough where even I'll look to see who's hired/fired) people will continue to give out amazing grades based on if the show wasn't completely terrible. As long as the same staff lingers on, the "it's been on for 458 years, what do you expect!?" will always influence the opinions of many who post here, whether stated or implied.

    As for the internet influence, I think 99% of any 'changes' you think we influenced, Al probably would've done because he seems to have similar tastes in dealing with Scully's handling with Homer and the term Jerkass Homer predates this board back to the alt.tv.simpsons days.

    Anyway:


  28. #58
    Junior Camper Sideshow Ben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    As a relative newbie to this site and a general observer I find it really discouraging to see nearly every second thread devoted to negative subjects such as "worst episodes ever" "worst season ever" etc. etc. etc. Some of the comments in these threads are ridiculous also.. People are constantly saying how they "haven't watched the show since season whatever" "The plot makes no sense" "I hate so and so character"
    Really? I'm sorry but if you haven't watched and episodes for years, why are you here?
    It's a cartoon people.. and it's a funny one at that. It's broken all sorts of records for the longest running animated show and all other animated shows currently on at the moment only exist because of the Simpsons.
    Some episodes are a bit average but you get that in any show. It's impossible to live up to peoples nostalgic expectations of the first episode they ever saw.

    I really think many "fans" on here ridicule the show because it makes them look clever and well informed on plot-lines etc.

    In my eyes you're not a true fan if you have nothing positive to say....
    I am constantly in awe and amazement of the classic era and usually have nothing negative to say. The fact that I can't say hat about the modern garbage says nothing about my Simpsons fanness.
    You are hearing me talk.

  29. #59
    FULL TIME SIMPSONS NUT speedmaster's Avatar
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    The bottom line of this thread (and this forum) is......

    *RANGO is always right.
    *He states facts that are always true.
    *He is the one true expert and the all knowing god of the Simpsons.
    *These forums would cease to exist without him.
    *Everyone is WRONG who doesn't agree with him.

    Flame on


  30. #60


    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    Flame on

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