No more bad characters.

[Diversity Pumpkin]

Are the writers all stereotypical, next gen pussies or something? DHS covered how they portray the world in a positive light now (using a compare and contrast with Homer getting bucketloads of free food at store, to Bart getting a miniature sundae in Radio Bart), but here's something that I've noticed that people rarely bring up. New, seemingly fresh topic here guys!

All of the "bad" characters are good now. Do the writers not know evil? I'll start with the basics.

Mr Burns - The original epitome of evil. Darth Vader's theme played during establishing shots of this man. He shot trespassers, laughed at the suffering and deaths of others, and if he had the strength, would beat a man to death with his bare hands. Remember in Team Homer, when Mr Burns was high on ether? He's sort of like that all the time now.

Moe - He used to be cool, could get laid, and would be an underground criminal with no remorse for murder. Now he's an extremely empathetic and needy, emotional manchild. Why's he always crying these days? That ain't cool, brah.

Nelson - He pretty much went the same way as Moe. If there was a newcomer to the show, they'd probably assume he was Bart's best friend, and just a poor, unfortunate kid rather than a bully. I kind of like what they did to him though, since we already have another group of schoolyard bullies, and the emotional aspect of a poor and abused child was used pretty well in some episodes (Sleeping With the Enemy comes straight to mind).

Jimbo, Dolph, Kearney - It seems like having them act out of character is the writer's favorite joke, but now it is their character. Ohohohoh, the bullies care about feelings and goodwill; that's hilarious, even though they've acted the same way for the past couple of seasons so they're not technically out of character anymore.

Snake - I watched the one where Homer becomes a bounty hunter yesterday. Snake was talking to Ned Flanders about his feelings. Then I watched the one where Bart made up that dark stanley story. Snake was talking to a psychiatrist about his feelings. Later he and Apu were hanging out. Haha, out of fucking character again; hilarious! Come on, this guy's a cold blooded killer. What have they done to him?

They've fucked up all the bad characters. Nobody is evil anymore. Somebody pointed out that the writers are probably on drugs because of all the drug references, and I probably wouldn't disagree considering the disapearance of our favorite baddies.

Can you think of any more? It must be so fun writing for bad guys; why are they doing this to themselves?

[HMS pinafore]

I guess Bob is still bad But Bob is too obsessed with killing bart nowdays and has no other characterizations(and this is coming from the guy who voted Cape Feare as the best episode).

Also the modern Burns is the worst thing the show has ever done (IMO).

[Diversity Pumpkin]

I made a thread about Bob's changes a few months ago - you're right, he's just obsessed with Bart, and is extremely one dimensional. He's more crazy than evil now. I love Cape Feare as well.

[The Governor]

I guess the writers probably view the stereotypical evil characters acting "evil" is about as antiquated as Bart making prank phone calls.

What it seems like is the writers when they were younger were like members of a heavy metal band that had that raw talent and passion that showed up as they tried to become established, but after they made it, the edges get knocked off and everything goes 'soft.' It's like Springfield lost all it's defining attributes of good and evil and is now just a mish-mash of unidentifiable warped characters existing in a bizzarro world.

[Bartesque]

I guess Bob is still bad But Bob is too obsessed with killing bart nowdays and has no other characterizations(and this is coming from the guy who voted Cape Feare as the best episode).

Funny thing is, Cape Feare is the only classic era Bob episode where his main objective was to kill Bart.

Krusty Gets Busted: Framing Krusty
Black Widower: Killing Selma
Sideshow Bob Roberts: Rigging an election
Last Gleaming: Getting rid of television (killing Bart and Krusty was an afterthought)
Brother From Another Series: Saved the town

In contrast, three of the four Bob episodes since (the ones from Season 12, 19 and 21) have revolved around Bob trying to kill Bart,

[leprechaun_dan]

You made a good point, Bartist. I feel stupid for not noticing this.

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

It's like Springfield lost all it's defining attributes of good and evil and is now just a mish-mash of unidentifiable warped characters existing in a bizzarro world.

It's like the writers decided to make everything grey instead of having a mix of black of white. I mean sure, grey is important but the world isn't entirely grey; if it was then it would just be really, really boring.

[Cartoonnetwork]

I'm not sure about this...but I'd say Moe is almost a better character now than he was then.

I agree about Nelson and Burns. I like some of the things they've done with the first one, but perhaps he's too bland sometimes. The other has been ruined.

I disagree about the bullies. Even though they overuse the out of character joke I still think they are esentially bullies. And they weren't evil before either. Maybe we don't see them punching people so often, though, but they are still the antagonists when they have a big role (24 minutes comes to mind).

I partly agree about Snake, that runnin' gag about him explaining his feelings is sometimes a bit lame, but he is still trying to steal from Apu, so I don't know.

It's kind of what LeJake thinks, probably the writers are so accustomed to the characters that they are kind of soft about them, also they think they have to be funny all the time and find that is more empathetic to make them pussies. They don't have the edge to make violence and evilness so funny if it's not for some idiotic Homer behaviour or slapstick.

[laurso99]

Homer's the bad guy now. He used to be a lovable guy who knew he was a loser. Now he's a dick who thinks he's some kind of winner.

[The Spruce Moose]

Sleeping with the Enemy is a godawful piece of piss episode and modern Nelson is one of the most annoying Zombie characters, but otherwise I agree. Also fundie Flanders is awful

[Nauru-1]

And yet, a once ridiculously nice, good-natured character in Ned Flanders is regularly now nothing more than a right-wing fundamentalist mouthpiece.

[cloneasaurus]

Moe - He used to be cool, could get laid, and would be an underground criminal with no remorse for murder.

Hardly. Even in the classic era he came off as somewhat pathetic, that's what makes him (on the exterior, at least) so cold and brash. I do agree that they've softened him up too much recently (like when he became a marriage expert in Moe Letter Blues), but I don't mind seeing the softer side to his character. Ditto with Nelson.

But otherwise, yes I agree.

[Cartoonnetwork]

Moe got laid in Flaming Moe's but that was probably because of his new found success.

He never seemed as desperate as he's now, though. I don't think classic era Moe would think of commiting suicide, it seemed that he actually enjoyed his job and didn't care that much if he didn't have so many friends.

But him not being exactly surrounded by ladies was already touched in "Who Shot Mr Burns Part Two", "Spin-Off Showcase" and "Dumbell Indemnity" to name a few.

[laurso99]

And yet, a once ridiculously nice, good-natured character in Ned Flanders is regularly now nothing more than a right-wing fundamentalist mouthpiece.

Yeah, really bugs me that. Although conservative and religious in his lifestyle, he was always liberal and tolerant in his actions towards others, no matter their beliefs, those days are long gone

[Bartesque]

I don't think classic era Moe would think of commiting suicide, it seemed that he actually enjoyed his job and didn't care that much if he didn't have so many friends.

Well...

"Oh boy, looks like it's suicide again for me"

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

I do hate invalid characters.

[Alex of Insomnia]

They really need to stop with the Jimbo, Dolph, and Kerney jokes, they just fall flat.

[akuronin]

two words : "modern men."
they do the dishes, iron clothes, cry, act like a woman, go to sleep, repeat.

[The Governor]

two words : "modern men."
they do the dishes, iron clothes, cry, act like a woman, go to sleep, repeat.

Mr. Burns should not reflect this.

[laurso99]

two words : "modern men."
they do the dishes, iron clothes, cry, act like a woman, go to sleep, repeat.

Why should the Simpsons continually try (and fail) to appear modern? The classic episodes seemed more of there time without even trying to be, modern episodes come across like an awkward elderly buffoon trying to appear "hip" to the young folk. I'm 18 and it's embarrassingly cringe worthy to watch.

[Dobbie]

Comic Book Guy. Someone used for the occassional dig at an event/person, usually tied with the plot. Now used to appear randomly and say your typical 'LOL GEEK' type of thing.

I also notice tthat they over-use Chalmers from time to time. Not an interesting enough character to be on so much.

[akuronin]

what i have noticed :
if you listen to all the comentary's, you will notice that they point out jokes and characters while claiming them to be genius.

now coming back to the modern simpsons :

they are using their own comentary's as inspiration for new episodes.
the jokes and things they pioint out, have now become a main aspect of the show, so in a way they are on an ego trip.

[Financial Panther]

I also notice tthat they over-use Chalmers from time to time. Not an interesting enough character to be on so much.

Agreed. This is the main reason Bart Stops to Smell the Roosevelts didn't work for me.

[zartok-35]

Its like the writers are trying to set an example for the cynical fans, by making Springfield into a place where people aren't mean enough to criticize TV episodes.

[Diversity Pumpkin]

I can't believe I forgot to mention Bart in the OP.

[Monty_Burns]

I'm not sure about this...but I'd say Moe is almost a better character now than he was then.

yeh I disagree, the new Moe is not that funny, all that crying and whining makes it seem as if they are desperate to make people laugh cuz I get it, watching a man crying might be funny, but why not create a new background character with Moe's new personality to show up and cry from time to time because he is pathetic, i miss the old Moe who like the rest of the characters and their old personalities, felt like a real person

[Jims]

I think most of this issue lies in character development. It was easy to write Mr. Burns or Nelson as being "bad" all of the time. Now that they've had their more sympathetic episodes and have been given backstories, it's hard to turn off that information... Or at least it is for the writers. You suddenly don't want to write Nelson as a stereotypical bully because, gosh darn it, he's just an insecure kid with daddy issues. So they don't write him as harshly anymore.

It's such a shame too, because all of the above examples do seem kinda neutered now. I guess there is something to be said for not being one-dimensional, but there's gotta be a way to balance it where the characters aren't just going through the motions.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

I thought I was in the majority when I felt Nelson's character was ruined by his change to friend.

Guess not.

[Homer Defined]

I think most of this issue lies in character development. It was easy to write Mr. Burns or Nelson as being "bad" all of the time. Now that they've had their more sympathetic episodes and have been given backstories, it's hard to turn off that information... Or at least it is for the writers. You suddenly don't want to write Nelson as a stereotypical bully because, gosh darn it, he's just an insecure kid with daddy issues. So they don't write him as harshly anymore.

It's such a shame too, because all of the above examples do seem kinda neutered now. I guess there is something to be said for not being one-dimensional, but there's gotta be a way to balance it where the characters aren't just going through the motions.

He was very over the top emotional in "O Brother, Where Bart Thou?" It felt so out of place from his original mean and intimidating demeanor.

[Oh, that's raspberry!]

You mean Nelson? You know he took Marge's pills in that episode so that was intentional right?