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  1. #1
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    210th post spectacular: FOREVER

    since i can't edit my original post i decided to make another thread and just use this as the kind of "hub" for this project now.

    as you well know, for reasons largely unknown, i'm watching all epiodes of the simpsons from season 1 through to season 11 and assigning them a rating. i'm not assigning these grades arbitrarily, and i'm trying to be thoughtful about it, so if a grade sticks out as silly then ask about it. the ratings i'm giving them follow this format:

    A: excellent episode
    B: good episode
    C: mediocre episode
    D: bad episode
    F: fail
    (all grades have +/-)

    i've only changed a few grades from the original ratings given to seasons 1-3 found here. i think the most dramatic change was raising colonel homer by a few points, and lowering homer defined. anyway, i've now added seasons 4 and 5 to the mix.

    Season 1
    Simpsons Roasting On An Open Fire
    C+

    Bart the Genius
    B-

    Homer's Odyssey
    D
    There's No Disgrace Like Home D+
    Bart the General C+
    Moaning Lisa C
    Call of the Simpsons
    D
    The Telltale Head C
    Life on the Fast Lane D+
    Homer's Night Out D
    The Crepes of Wrath C
    Krusty Gets Busted B
    Some Enchanted Evening D+
    AVERAGE SEASON 1 C/C+

    Season 2

    Bart Gets An 'F' A
    Simpson and Delilah
    B+
    Treehouse of Horror A+
    Two Cars In Every Garage, Three Eyes On Every Fish A+
    Dancin' Homer
    C-
    Dead Putting Society C+
    Bart vs. Thanksgiving A-
    Bart The Daredevil A
    Itchy & Scratchy & Marge A+
    Bart Gets Hit by a Car B
    One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish C
    The Way We Was A+
    Homer vs. Lisa & the 8th Commandment A-
    Principal Charming
    B-
    Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? A
    Bart's Dog Gets an F
    C-

    Old Money
    B+

    Brush With Greatness
    A
    Lisa's Substitute A+
    The War Of The Simpsons
    C+

    Three Men and a Comic Book
    A
    Blood Feud B
    AVERAGE SEASON 2 A-/B+


    Season 3

    Stark Raving Dad C+
    Mr. Lisa Goes To Washington A+
    When Flanders Failed C+
    Bart The Murderer
    A
    Homer Defined A
    Like Father, Like Clown
    A-
    Treehouse of Horror II A
    Lisa's Pony A+
    Saturdays of Thunder B+
    Flaming Moe's
    A
    Burns Verkaufen Der Kraftwerk A
    I Married Marge A+
    Radio Bart A+
    Lisa The Greek
    A

    Homer Alone
    A
    Bart the Lover B
    Homer at the Bat
    B+

    Separate Vocations
    B+
    Dog Of Death A
    Colonel Homer
    A-
    Black Widower C+
    The Otto Show C
    Bart's Friend Falls in Love C+
    Brother Can You Spare Two Dimes?
    A
    AVERAGE SEASON 3 A-/B+

    Season 4

    Kamp Krusty B
    A Streetcar Named Marge B
    Homer the Heretic A+
    Lisa the Beauty Queen A
    Treehouse of Horror III
    A

    Itchy & Scratchy: The Movie
    B
    Marge Gets a Job B-
    New Kid on the Block A
    Mr. Plow
    A+
    Lisa's First Word A+
    Homer's Triple Bypass
    A+
    Marge vs. the Monorail A-
    Selma's Choice A
    Brother From the Same Planet
    C

    I Love Lisa
    B
    Duffless A
    Last Exit to Springfield A+
    So It's Come To This: A Simpsons Clip Show D-
    The Front
    B

    Whacking Day
    B-

    Marge in Chains
    B-
    Krusty Gets Kancelled A
    AVERAGE SEASON 4 A-/B+


    Season 5

    Homer's Barbershop Quartet A+
    Cape Feare
    A+

    Homer Goes To College
    B-
    Rosebud A+
    Treehouse Of Horror IV B+
    Marge On The Lam A+
    Bart's Inner Child A
    Boy Scoutz n the Hood
    B-
    The Last Temptation of Homer A
    $pringfield B
    Homer the Vigilante A
    Bart Gets Famous
    B-
    Homer and Apu C+
    Lisa vs Malibu Stacey B-
    Deep Space Homer
    A-

    Homer Loves Flanders
    C+
    Bart Gets an Elephant B
    Burns' Heir B-
    Sweet Seymour Skinner's Badassss Song
    A-

    The Boy Who Knew Too Much
    B
    Lady Bouvier's Lover C
    Secrets of a Successful Marriage A+
    AVERAGE SEASON 5 B/B+

    Season 6


    Bart Of Darkness A-
    Lisa's Rival
    B+
    Another Simpsons Clip Show F
    Itchy and Scratchy Land
    A
    Sideshow Bob Roberts A-
    Treehouse Of Horror V
    A+
    Bart's Girlfriend
    A-
    Lisa On Ice A
    Homer: Badman
    A+
    Grampa vs Sexual Inadequacy
    A
    Fear Of Flying C+
    Homer the Great B-
    ..And Maggie Makes Three A
    Bart's Comet
    B+
    Homie The Clown B
    Bart vs Australia
    A
    Homer vs. Patty & Selma B-
    A Star is Burns
    C
    Lisa's Wedding A+
    Two Dozen and One Greyhounds
    B-
    The PTA Disbands C+
    Round Springfield A-
    The Springfield Connection A
    Lemon of Troy
    A
    Who Shot Mr Burns? (Part One)
    A
    Average: A-/B+


    Season 7


    Who Shot Mr Burns? (Part Two) B
    Radioactive Man A
    Home Sweet Home Diddly-Dum-Doodily
    A+
    Bart Sells His Soul
    A+
    Lisa The Vegetarian A+
    Treehouse Of Horror VI
    A+
    King Size Homer A
    Mother Simpson A+
    Sideshow Bob's Last Gleaming B
    The Simpsons 138th Episode Spectacular
    C
    Marge Be Not Proud
    A+

    it's a shame season 4 had that clip show because if it didn't the average would be higher than seasons 2 and 3.
    Last edited by Nebuchanezzar; 04-08-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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    My grades and reviews of every episode from seasons 1-7

  2. #2
    Skeletor rising hughes's Avatar
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    c'mon, the clip show ain't that bad. the whole first act is completely original, it at least deserves a C, IMO
    Living In a Rock and Roll Fantasy--my music review blog
    Most recent review--The Who's My Generation (12/15)

  3. #3
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    when it's competing with episodes, all of which have 100% original material (so far), and most of which have material which is better than the 20% or so original material in the clip show, it's hard to give it anything above a D. add the premise of the episode to the equation and i think im being generous!

  4. #4
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    A Few I have to ask about again.

    Homer vs. Lisa & the 8th Commandment A-? Why did you lower this one? I thought you gave it an A+ in the r/r just a month or two ago.

    Too low:Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy, A Streetcar Named Marge, THOH IV, $pringfield and my obligatory one of why doesn't Marge vs. the Monorail have at least an A grade.

    Too high: Krusty gets Kancelled and Homer the Vigilante

    I look forward to your responses.

  5. #5
    Mapple Fan-boy HMS pinafore's Avatar
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    If you gave homer at the bat an A+ then my 5 favorite episodes would have all got A+'s
    The episodes being:

    Homer at the Bat B+
    Homer's Triple Bypass A+
    Last Exit to Springfield A+
    Cape Feare A+
    Rosebud A+

  6. #6
    some brit guy Tinselled Jim's Avatar
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    Dead Putting Society C+
    Bart's Friend Falls in Love C+
    Homer at the Bat B+
    these are very strange , I consider all of these solid A's. especially giving a C+ to society. I agree with the vast majority however.
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  7. #7
    Pin Pal alex_on_ice's Avatar
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    These ratings for the first 5 seasons look to be really well thought out. It must have taken you quite a bit of time to do all of this (although I suppose you did do this over a long period of time). I agree with the vast majority of your ratings although I wouldn't have given a C+ to Homer Loves Flanders in Season 5. I'm really happy to see you gave Rosebud an A+ (one of my favorites) and I'm super glad to see you gave A's to Bart The Murderer and to Homer Defined (Great episodes!).

    When I look at your list though everything looks very logical. I don't see anything that really shocks me. There are two more episodes where I would disagree with your ratings (all in Season 1). I wouldn't have given a D to The Call Of The Simpsons (I've always really loved this episode) and I wouldn't have given a C+ to Bart The General.

    Can't wait for the ratings of Seasons 6 to 11!

  8. #8
    A "Cow Woof Woof" zartok-35's Avatar
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    Marge on the Lam has an A+, just what is deserves, 'Homer the heretic' aswell. I might have to toss out some more credit to some of my list of 15 episodes on here, namely 'Lisa vs Malibu stacy', 'Burns heir' and 'Lady bouviers lover'.

  9. #9
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    homer/lisa & 8th commandment did get an A+ in the r&r thread a few months back but i submitted that review having not watched it (and seasons 1 and 2) straight before. having watched those episodes it felt like it deserved more of an A-. That is, an excellent episode that's below the average of other excellent episodes. the tone seemed preachy at times. i think that was my reasoning when i watched it. that's all that's working against it sadly, and it makes it not good enough to be in the upper A range.

    lady bouvier's lover and lisa vs malibu stacy are both more boring than the average episode, and the pace is slow. while i don't mind a slower pace, an episode like bart vs thanksgiving makes up for it by nailing the feeling of the holiday with the relatives, and also the feeling of being a kid in trouble (i could go on). lady bouvier's lover tries to do the same thing but with old people, and since old people problems are less interesting, the episode suffers. after maggagie's birthday the episode drags. add a few cruddy jokes to the mix and it gets a C. in other words it's decent but it had problems.

    the same goes for lisa vs malibu stacy. replace "old people" with "lisa's pc feminist problems" and you've got a brief summary of the way i feel about that episode. homer thinking that posie's are something he can use to win back marge's trust (just an example) are jokes that are always going to work better with me than "hmm...that should probably be if i choose to get married." it's more boring, slower, and less funny than almost all the other episodes i've reviewed from seasons 2-5.

    i originally gave $pringfield a way lower grade than it has right now but i pushed it up because i realised i was being unfair. it's a lot of fun, and homer's "phonographic memory" is one of my top ten jokes, probably. the problem is in the plot. marge becoming a compulsive gambler is a bit of a stretch for her character. maybe that's the point, i don't know, but it was questionable. also, the fact that they were able to resolve that whole addiction thing with homer basically talking her out of it is problematic. "marge, admit you have a problem." "oh...i guess i do. okay" the simpsons have dealt with addiction before (duffless), in a far more logical, touching and humourous way. the same goes for marge's absense in the house (homer alone).

    a streetcar named marge: i'm pretty sure i get the parody of the tacky play in the third act, but it goes on waaay too long and once the "new orleans" song was over it went on and on. aside from that it's probably just taste. it's a good episode but it's not great. the movie parodies - especially maggie's escape - were a lot of fun though.

    THOH IV: it's competing against three far better THOH episodes and realistically, the only better thing about this one is silverman's animation which was awesome. something that i actually had against the episode (rather than it simply being not as good) was the fact that there was a courtroom drama in the middle of a thoh episode which, to me, seems like a wasted opportunity. to be honest though it's probably more of an A- episode so i'll probably change it next time i update this thread.

    i knew the marge vs the monorail grade would irritate someone, lol. first, it's not as fast paced/dense as most people probably think, and certainly less so than most of the episodes i've given A's to (especially ones like LETS, homer defined, etc). also, i've heard some people mention the word 'satire' when they talk about this one, and it got me thinking that satire was really absent from this episode. aside from the scene with wiggum and quimby, this episode doesn't really have a whole lot to say about anything. most of the episodes i've given A's to were either more satirical, more insightful (character wise), more self-aware or something to justify getting an A grade. given that the only thing this episode has to get it up there was its jokes and its sillyness (as funny as they were), i couldn't justify anything higher than A- given that i'm trying to rate these episodes based on something more substantial than "i liked it". yeah i liked it, but compared to the other A grade episodes it's lacking substance (and it's far less dense too).

    krusty gets kancelled gets up there because it's hilarious, but also because it's incredibly self aware. the simpson kids searching for guest stars to draw attention to the show? krusty trying to compete with his fad rip-off? i don't know if it was written that way, but it can sure as hell now be read that way. the satire of the whole fad thing - especially the hype leading up to gabbo - was nice. worker and parasite and the ventriloquist sequence were both hilarious as well. i'll also say that the humour of both of those sequences was entirely down to the animation, and not the writing, which is a credit to the animators. i was in a bad mood when i watched this one and those two jokes kinda cheered me up, lol. actually i was almost gonna give this one an A+ but i resisted because i didn't think it was that good.

    with homer the vigilante maybe the better way to do this would be to ask you, what didn't you like about it specifically? because for the life of me i can't think of anything i don't like about it and the first act is, in my view, one of the densest, fastest moving pieces of comedy the simpsons ever did (along the lines of the lottery run in dog of death).

    i'm a bit tired now so i'll reply to the other ones later

  10. #10
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    Good responses as usual

    Homer and Lisa: It does get maybe a little bit preachy in the latter half of the second act and the third but there is just far too much going on in the episode to warrant a grade less than an A. The satirical value of the episode alone is crazy. But for an episode dealing with such a cliched topic(stealing) the writers do it in a more ambiguous way than any other TV show. It asks the question of when does stealing becoming stealing. Also it deals with how every character deals with the topic of stealing. It's easy to feel for Homer despite you knowing he's stealing because for once the average man is able to afford something only richer would be able to. Plus the episode is so layered with background gags, great one liners and some great animation. Lastly the ending of this episode is one of my favourites. Just the subtle references to Homer's soul being saved(Lisa's dialogue/Homer's assertion up the pole) and the hilarity of Bart trying to get Homer to keep the cable To me the episode is the embodiment of everything Simpsons.

    Lisa vs. Malibu Stacey: Maybe I'm just a sucker for a good Lisa episode but I really loved this one. I think it is one of the better past season 4 Lisa era episodes. She is strong willed but she doesn't step it over the line. She has reasonable complaints about something and sets out to fix it. But in true Springfieldian fashion she gets triumphed by the less intelligent product because of a cheap marketing ploy. Again the satirical value in this episode might be why I grade it so high again but I do know there's lots of it in there. Also Grandpa's subplot is one of the best subplot's the show had done.

    $pringfield: This episode is probably in the top 5 funniest episodes in the show. It like 8th Commandment showcases how every family member(and the town) deals with the prospect of legalized gambling. I love how many plots intertwine in the episode. As for Marge's character I just find it in character for her develop a problem like that. I mean we know she can get obsessive about things(although those things are usually more about social class) so I don't find it to be too much of a stretch for her. Also the breaking of Marge's addiction is a lot more than just Homer talking her out of it. She realizes how badly she's been to her family and we know Marge will drop anything for her family if she's upset them(Class Struggle). I find this plot with Marge gone way more humorous than Homer Alone's take at it.

    A Streetcar Named Marge: I can understand you not liking it but a B grade is just crazy to me. It again like Life on the Fast Lane is one of my favorite showings of Marge and Homer's relationship. Like bowling in Fast Lane Marge is able to use the play to escape for Homer but also make Homer realize how much Marge means to him. How he doesn't want to end up like Stanley and the the use of how Stanley and Blanche's dynamic is similar to Homer and Marge's that makes this episode great. But along with the relationship aspect of this episode there are various film references i.e Citizen Kane, the Birds, The Great Escape the list goes on and on. But you're right it probably boils down to preference in that i don't think the parody went on to long or anything.

    Monorail: I do think this is the funniest episode of the series(or Rosebud) so that's why I rank it so high. But also the characterizations are in great form for an episode that is so wacky. As for satirical value there is some in how Burns buys off his legal troubles and the towns willingness to be duped so easily by this smooth talker(Lyle Lanley is probably Hartman's best VA work in the first few seasons maybe ever). also the use of guest stars in this one is great. It uses Nimoy 1000x better than Springfield Files does.

    Krusty gets Kancelled: I thought you had it down as an A+ that's why I asked. The A grade is reasonable.

    Homer the Vigilante: The whole episode just feels Scullyish. Jerkass Homer and a lame Homer gets a job plot. It is reasonably funny though. But it doesn't really have anything that would garner an A grade from me. I just feel this episode is one of the classic era episodes I get bored while watching.

    one more why the A+ grading for Mr. Plow. I always found this episode to be an average gag fest episode. I know lots of people have it in their top 30's but I just can't see why.


    It's nice to see someone give some love to Secrets of a Successful Marriage and Sweet Seymour Skinner. Both flawless episodes in my book.

  11. #11
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    goodfella:

    dead putting society is a bit of an odd one, isn't it? a lot of people like it. it's alright i suppose but it has substantial problems so that's why it gets a C grade. firstly, homer's a jerk. usually i can look past that if it's funny or purposeful but in this case it's only moderately funny and the purpose - the neighbour rivalry - doesn't seem important enough to warrant it. i like lisa on ice because i guess the satire stands up better with me there than in dead putting society, which isn't as good. lisa on ice is tonnes funnier as well. so it's kind of got two things going against it there: first, homer's a bit of a jerk (which isn't all that bad, but it's there) and second, the episodes which compete against it are far funnier and pointed. second, the plot is cliche and, to me, feels like something i'd rather see the simpsons poke fun at. it's hackneyed contest shtick. that's fine if you can lampshade it and do it in a clever way but this episode does neither. it seems to almost embrace it. the drama unfolding as those golf balls are bouncing around the green seems to want to be taken seriously and for me, that's problematic.

    i went through bart's friend falls in love in the other thread. i'll just copy and paste what i said there because i still agree with it: "bart's friend falls in love: again, it's slow. usually i defend this one because its good from the "kids perspective" but when i watched it i thought that perspective was more meh than good. it doesn't really do anything exciting or funny, it just chugs along, and that's never deserving of anything above a 'B'. just by way of example, homer alone studies marge's place in the family - which is usually kinda boring - from different perspectives (homer, marge, kids, even maggie) and these are both funny and kinda insightful. it's one of my mothers favourite episodes anyway. that would be the way to do one of those 'perspective' episodes. this one isn't as imaginative as homer alone though, and the fact that homer's subplot about his vocab is the most exciting part of the show goes to show how weak this one is by season 3 standards. the indiana jones homage is nice though."

    homer at the bat gets a B+, which is a GOOD grade. but it doesn't deserve anything above that because it doesn't do anything to warrant it. it's amusing, yeah, but so is the rest of season 3. and the episodes i gave A's to in season 3 were just as amusing, and a lot less celebrity oriented. celebrity oriented episodes are always a little lazy but some of them manage to do some imaginative stuff, like the springfield files. homer at the bat doesn't really. i was reading a hydro post a few weeks ago when preparing for this project, and he said that the plot could basically be summarised as: burns wants a baseball team, he organises one, replaces the players and they win. it's probably a bit rough, but the gist of it is true: the episode really isn't that special.

    flanderoma:

    homer loves flanders is a great concept but the way it's handled is pretty mediocre when compared to other 'homer as annoying' episodes (scoutz, homer's enemy, hurricane neddy). the better episodes handle the characters in a consistent way. ned's explosion wasn't consistent with his characterisation. same goes with homer. i buy into the idea that he'd be temporarily 'attracted' to ned for having bought him tickets, but it doesn't make for an interesting plot. especially so considering that he ends up hating flanders at the end because he forgot that he liked him in the first place, basically. it's an astute homer observation (homer is a dog) that makes for a good joke, but not an entire episode.

    call of the simpsons: it's pretty lame cartoon stuff really. stick a family in the woods, have the baby captured by some bears, etc. the concept is pretty thin and the execution isn't anything to write home about. the bigfoot stuff was great though, but if it was absent, it'd basically be a less offensive, less funny version of something like saddlesore galactica. i also lowered all the grades in season 1 by one grade point (ie A+ -> A) because really, seasons 2 and on are in a whole other ballpark.

    bart the general: yeah i think this one suffers from that grade lowering thing i did. because if C means an episode "with its problems" then i don't think bart the general fits into that scheme. it deserves a B-. i'll change that one next time.

    zartok: i already talked about all your episodes except burns' heir. that one gets a B- because it's competent. i would have given it a C because for me, it's pretty forgetable, but i realise that's not really objective. since i'm trying to rate all these episodes based on what i can actually substantiate rather than what i feel, i had to give it a a B-. it has its moments (so do others) but they're nothing too great. the "he card reads good" is a pretty kickass line though.

    i'll respond to you, darren, later.

  12. #12
    some brit guy Tinselled Jim's Avatar
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    Dead Putting Society-

    homer's a jerk.
    I think this is a pretty poor explanation of his character in this episode . Homer is understandably jealous of Ned's better life and the fact he has a bar in his basement . I think a lot of people (well, me) would say this is one of the funnier if not the funniest episodes from season 2 and the way Homer dealt with the jealousy was pretty funny. Ned admitting he was wrong for bringing him down there and showing him how good they've got life was pretty funny I felt. There are so many good things in this episode I don't think this episode is competing against anything as its the basic foundation of Homer and Neds relationship , as well as a good study on the relationship between a father and his son too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Homer in Dead Putting Society
    Homer: Because sometimes the only way you can feel good about yourself is by making someone else look bad. And I'm tired of making other people feel good about themselves!

  13. #13
    Pin Pal alex_on_ice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchanezzar View Post

    flanderoma:

    homer loves flanders is a great concept but the way it's handled is pretty mediocre when compared to other 'homer as annoying' episodes (scoutz, homer's enemy, hurricane neddy). the better episodes handle the characters in a consistent way. ned's explosion wasn't consistent with his characterisation. same goes with homer. i buy into the idea that he'd be temporarily 'attracted' to ned for having bought him tickets, but it doesn't make for an interesting plot. especially so considering that he ends up hating flanders at the end because he forgot that he liked him in the first place, basically. it's an astute homer observation (homer is a dog) that makes for a good joke, but not an entire episode.

    call of the simpsons: it's pretty lame cartoon stuff really. stick a family in the woods, have the baby captured by some bears, etc. the concept is pretty thin and the execution isn't anything to write home about. the bigfoot stuff was great though, but if it was absent, it'd basically be a less offensive, less funny version of something like saddlesore galactica. i also lowered all the grades in season 1 by one grade point (ie A+ -> A) because really, seasons 2 and on are in a whole other ballpark.

    bart the general: yeah i think this one suffers from that grade lowering thing i did. because if C means an episode "with its problems" then i don't think bart the general fits into that scheme. it deserves a B-. i'll change that one next time.
    Thanks very much for the explanation . It's very kind of you to take the time to answer each and every comment that's made on this thread. I understand a lot better why you gave those sort of ratings to Homer Loves Flanders, The Call of the Simpsons and Bart The General. I can see what you mean about The Call Of The Simpsons and it basically looks like we enjoy the same bit of that episode very much (the bigfoot stuff and all those wonderfully funny headlines in the newspaper). I also really laugh at the end of the episode when the scientists can't really tell if it's a very intelligent monster or an extremely stupid human. And when I come to think of it, the episode is a bit cartoony as you rightly pointed out to me (Homer recieving a bee's nest in his mouth with a bunch of honey. The sort of thing you could find in a donald duck cartoon). Anyways, thanks again for the answer Nebuchanezzar!

  14. #14
    Mapple Fan-boy HMS pinafore's Avatar
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    thank you for rating marge on the lam A+ because that episode is horribly underated

  15. #15
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    Dead Putting Society: I would probably take Homer in this one to Homer in Lisa on Ice. I get the satirical aspect of Lisa on Ice but I don't like the changing of characters to such a extreme degree just for one episode. Also I do find Dead Putting to be the funnier episodes of the two. Homer is a bit of a jerk in Dead Putting but it's reasonable. It's a showcase of the Flanders and Homer dynamic. How Flanders is the ideal man with perfect kids and the wife who serves him. While Homer is the average man who has kids that don't respect him as much as Flanders kids respect him and Marge doesn't fully support him. But I will agree with you the plot in somewhat boring and cliched and the end of the tournament is really anti climatic.
    Last edited by cuckold bart; 09-21-2011 at 10:54 AM.

  16. #16
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    darren:

    i think you're misusing some terms tbh. a gagfest episode is one which presumably doesn't have much of a plot, or doesn't attempt to reconcile some emotional conflict between characters, and instead assembles a vague (or uninteresting) plot around jokes. eg: bart gets an elephant or NYC vs homer simpson. mr plow certainly isn't that. even on its most basic level there's a well formed and fully resolved (and probably any other criteria you want to throw at it) conflict between homer and barney in the episode.

    complaints about 'jerkass homer' and 'homer gets a job' are only ever justified in specific circumstances. when an episode makes a serious attempt at making a new job interesting or unique then you can't realisticaly fault the episode for being a 'homer gets a job' episode, because that whole complaint stems from the plot being an uninteresting rehash of something that's already been done before. homer the vigilante isn't just a 'homer gets a job' episode, though i guess it is to some extent. but considering that it's also got a couple of other things going on - satire of police, vigilantes, use of power, panic; a mystery; the it's a mad...world parody - i don't think it's fair to fault it as "scullyish" (i hate buzzwords like that) or, in other words, lazy and repetitive, because it's not. as for homer being a jerk, i've always thought that it's permissible as long as he doesn't become a braindead lunatic, and as long as it's for a purpose. in homer the vigilante it's fine because the plot calls for it. if a sensible person was the leader of the mob it'd be dull. in say, the joy of sect, maybe not so much.

    and in addition homer the vigilante is just funny as hell.

    as for dead putting society, look, the jerk thing was only half of my complaint so don't put too much importance on it. but the distinction here is i don't like it when characters become emotional for no reason because that's sloppy writing. a character crying in some of the later jean episodes is bad because the crying isn't justified by the shitty plot which is inevitably supposed to justify it. the exception there is homer, who bursts into random fits of emotion fairly consistently. but that's okay because it's consistent and more importantly, it's enjoyable on a more fundamental level. who doesn't like seeing a grown man cry right? but there's nothing enjoyable about seeing homer being a purposefully enraged, angry white dude. homer's meant to be a pretty nice guy, quick to anger sometimes, but he's never been written as so consciously focused on his anger. and whenever he is that angry it's because he doesn't know any better, or it's used for a quick gag and then you move on. that's the homer i'm used to and that's the homer that i want. further, his anger is just so unjustified and it progresses from the most trivial occurances.

  17. #17
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    Maybe I really need to watch Homer the Vigilante again because aside from a few jokes Dr.Strangelove parody, Frink's house etc there isn't really that much there humor wise for me and there are a few jokes that just bomb. As for the satirical value of the episode I don't know I'm pretty sure we've seen sharper satire on police force in Springfield before. Also the aspect of panic causing chaos in Springfield has been done numerous times more and to a much better quality. As for Homer I think he's lined up towards the more Scully esque Homer that Mirkin created in season 5 and 6. I mean in this episode he doesn't quite go as far as he does in some Scully episodes but the characterization is definitely there.

    Mr.Plow: I consider gag fest episodes in the classic era to be more concentrated on jokes yes but I also think the plots of the episode have to be there(as you said). I know Mr. Plow is a great gag fest episode(I meant average episode before not average gag fest in my first post) by that criteria but I just don't see how it can hold up against episodes I consider to be the best gag fests i.e Marge vs. the Monorail etc or I know it's hard to compare them but other A+ range episodes I have i.e Lisa's Sub/Itchy and Scratchy and Marge etc. It's just not funny enough. I do consider the episode to be a B+/A- range though so I was just wondering what made the episode worthy of the exclusive A+ grade

  18. #18
    some brit guy Tinselled Jim's Avatar
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    just noticed I love Lisa is a B in your mind but this is in my top 10. so many great scenes, its quite shocking to see low grades for universally loved episodes :O
    I'd appreciate an explanation when you have time

  19. #19
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darren
    As for Homer I think he's lined up towards the more Scully esque Homer that Mirkin created in season 5 and 6. I mean in this episode he doesn't quite go as far as he does in some Scully episodes but the characterization is definitely there.
    it doesn't matter if it's 'there', what matters is what's done with it. in this case the relevant question would be, is homer grating to watch? i'd answer no, with the added point that he's thoughtful and not a deranged lunatic. it's not as if he's, say, running people down in his car so he can get to a movie. he's acting like a semi-sane dude and that means the writing here is exempt from this particular criticism (unless there's a moment of deranged lunacy that i'm forgetting). also as a side point, i'm not going to rate an episode down because it feels 'scully esque'. that criticism is very uninformative and totally unfair. not everything scully touched turned into utter shit.

    have i convinced you that 'jerkass homer' and 'lame homer gets a job plot' weren't fair criticisms yet?

    as for the stuff in homer the vigilante which has been done before, i'd probably agree. that's why it doesn't get an A+. i'd say the rest of our differences probably come down to taste and nitpicking, which is fine, but it means that not much else can be said. but yeah, i don't think 'jerkass homer' and 'lame plot' can really apply...unless you apply those criticisms to a massive number of other episodes.

    I consider gag fest episodes in the classic era to be more concentrated on jokes
    so...every episode? i don't think you can really fault an episode for being a 'gagfest', as a drawback, unless there's a problem with the plot. in this episode there's no problem. it's a good plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodfella
    just noticed I love Lisa is a B in your mind but this is in my top 10. so many great scenes, its quite shocking to see low grades for universally loved episodes
    B isn't a low grade at all. and i only give A+'s to episodes which have something exceptional. what's so exceptional about this one exactly?

  20. #20
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neb
    but yeah, i don't think 'jerkass homer' and 'lame plot' can really apply...unless you apply those criticisms to a massive number of other episodes.
    I do actually apply these criticisms to far more episodes than I know I should(particularly jerkass Homer). But tbh I really don't enjoy Homer centric episodes all that much unless they involve Lisa or Marge or a certain dynamic that hasn't been explored fully before.

    gag fests: I really should explain better what I mean is I don't really enjoy gag fests that much(well as much as lots of other episodes) with a few exceptions i.e Monorail because while they usually in the classic era had sound plots and were funny enough just were lacking in other areas I look for in a Simpson's episode(satire, emotion, character studies etc). I think Mr. Plow falls under above average gag fest episode but average classic era episode(B+ grade).

    But you have made me rethink some of my grades a bit I think. When I get around to watching Homer the Vigilante again I'll let you know what I think.
    Last edited by cuckold bart; 07-26-2011 at 12:14 AM.

  21. #21
    some brit guy Tinselled Jim's Avatar
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    B isn't a low grade at all. and i only give A+'s to episodes which have something exceptional. what's so exceptional about this one exactly?
    really ? B is pretty low for a popular classic era episode. I'd only give about 3 episodes in season 4 a grade like that.
    I felt the plot was very strong , and it led on to a lot of memorable jokes,
    Homer escaping to buy a gift
    I choose you card
    I didn't cry when my father was hung for stealing a pig
    Wiggum shooting nuts
    Krusty's show
    The Mash ending / beggining

  22. #22
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    it's not low. my original post says "B = good". about 30% of the episodes so far are in the B range. if you want me to provide six jokes that i liked from each episode along with the comment "i felt the plot was strong" then i can do so. i don't think that means the episode deserves an A+ though.

    compare it to an episode like selma's choice, which gets an A. both of them deal with a secondary character, but selma's choice gets a higher grade because it goes for a different angle (kids, not a partner) on an existing character. i love lisa has no subplot but selma's choice manages to fit (a totally offbeat) one in, so it gets points for having more substance. selma's choice has that extended trip sequence with lisa whereas i love lisa has a (hilarious) short vietnam scene, and so selma's choice gets points for taking advantage of the cartoon format. selma's choice has a fully resolved plot (jub jub becomes the substitute), whereas i love lisa doesn't really provide closure on how ralph got over lisa. i love lisa has a long play in it which drags a little, whereas selma's choice doesn't. the two episodes are similar but these sorts of reasons are why an episode like i love lisa gets a lower grade than an episode like selma's choice.

    in the end though a B is a good grade and it's lower than A so it can be seperated from the episodes i think are better. it's not a bad grade at all.

  23. #23
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    You still doing this?

  24. #24
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    i kinda got caught busy during season 7 so i'm stuck at sideshow bob's last gleaming and haven't been able to go that much further. D: but since you asked, here's what i've got so far:

    Season 6


    Bart Of Darkness A-
    Lisa's Rival
    B+
    Another Simpsons Clip Show F
    Itchy and Scratchy Land
    A
    Sideshow Bob Roberts A-
    Treehouse Of Horror V
    A+
    Bart's Girlfriend
    A-
    Lisa On Ice A
    Homer: Badman
    A+
    Grampa vs Sexual Inadequacy
    A
    Fear Of Flying C+
    Homer the Great B-
    ..And Maggie Makes Three A
    Bart's Comet
    B+
    Homie The Clown B
    Bart vs Australia
    A
    Homer vs. Patty & Selma B-
    A Star is Burns
    C
    Lisa's Wedding A+
    Two Dozen and One Greyhounds
    B-
    The PTA Disbands C+
    Round Springfield A-
    The Springfield Connection A
    Lemon of Troy
    A
    Who Shot Mr Burns? (Part One)
    A
    Average: A-/B+


    Season 7


    Who Shot Mr Burns? (Part Two) B
    Radioactive Man A
    Home Sweet Home Diddly-Dum-Doodily
    A+
    Bart Sells His Soul
    A+
    Lisa The Vegetarian A+
    Treehouse Of Horror VI
    A+
    King Size Homer A
    Mother Simpson A+
    Sideshow Bob's Last Gleaming B
    The Simpsons 138th Episode Spectacular
    C
    Marge Be Not Proud
    A+
    ...

  25. #25
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    I don't really disagree with much this time. I think it more just comes down to you give out more A/A+ grades than I do. But there are still a few that I have to ask about

    Too High: Round Springfield/Radioactive Man/Lisa on Ice(I'm interested in hearing your praise of this episode)
    Too Low: Homer the Great/The PTA Disbands

  26. #26
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    THOH IV: B+
    THOH VI: A+

    Mind: blown.

  27. #27
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    the problem here now is that none of those grades, with the exception of the recent season 7 ones, are fresh in my mind anymore. so my explanations might not be as convincing as before.

    thoh vi was a fantastic halloween show, and although the 3d novelty has worn off homer^3, it's still entertaining because its 3D simpsons. plus the maths stuff is a lot of fun. and the nightmare on elm street segment was great. but what makes those two segments stand out over thoh iv is the fact that they were exploratory - i suppose - and did the familiar o&w exploration of the limits of the show. the animation pushed the boundaries in each of those segments, whereas thoh iv was more or less a fairly regular halloween segment, thoh vi did something original. tl;dr: the higher grade comes from the fact that o&w tried something very different with thoh vi and pulled it off very, very well.

    i'll do the rest later.

  28. #28
    withered gas station rose cuckold bart's Avatar
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    Now that you're back are you going to update this?

  29. #29
    Out of touch old timer Nebuchanezzar's Avatar
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    you know, i'd like to, but i'm not sure that'd be proper. two reasons: first, the episodes i've already seen are no longer fresh in my mind so the grading system would be unfair and skewed. second, the great thing about this was that i was watching these episodes one after the other over a period of like, days. i'd find the time to watch about five episodes a day and to have a good think about them, but i wouldn't have the time for that now.

    but i doubt anyone would care or notice so i might update it if i can find the time. there's not much of season 7 to go so it won't be that hard.

  30. #30
    Executive Vice President
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    Bring this back!



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