This one is superior Darren.
And Panther I update the first post weekly so just check it.
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This one is superior Darren.
And Panther I update the first post weekly so just check it.
I'm sorry, I thought you were only asking to compare it to The Ziff Who Came to Dinner. I don't consider The Way We Was an Artie Ziff episode, he just appears in it. Only Half-Decent Proposal and Ziff Who Came to Dinner are actual Artie-centered episodes. The Way We Was crushes them both rather easily.
It's hard to say that The Way We Was isn't an Artie Ziff episode. Sure he's not centered in The Way We Was as much as the other episodes but he is still the main source of conflict in all three episodes. But it's interesting that Artie's revival is really the only good use the show had of bringing back an old character.
I could see how you would consider it one to be sure, but in my own episode filing system in my admittedly bizarre mind I file The Way We Was under:
2.)Homer and Marge Relationship Episode
and in that order.
EDIT: 1,100 posts woo!!! I must not celebrate meaningless milestones!
In terms of episode quality...
The Way We Was
The Ziff Who Came to Dinner
In terms of Artie's role...
The Way We Was
The Ziff Who Came to Dinner
To view various lists about my Simpsons opinions, click the link below.
The Falcon and the D'ohman (4.5/10) Bart Stops to Smell the Roosevelts (4.0/10) Treehouse of Horror XXII (1.0/10) Replacable You (3.5/10) The Food Wife (4.0/10) The Book Job (8.0/10) The Man in the Blue Flannel Pants (4.0/10) The Ten-Per-Cent Solution (4.5/10) Holidays of Future Passed (8.5/10) Politically Inept, With Homer Simpson (3.5/10) The D'oh-cial Network (2.5/10) Moe Goes From Rags to Riches (1.5/10) The Daughter Also Rises (5.0/10) At Long Last Leave (2.5/10) Exit Through the Kwik-E-Mart (1.0/10) How I Wet Your Mother (4.0/10) Them, Robot (3.0/10) Beware My Cheating Bart (5.0/10) A Totally Fun Thing That Bart Will Never Do Again (3.0/10) The Spy Who Learned Me (3.5/10) Ned 'N' Edna's Blend (5.5/10) Lisa Goes Gaga (1.0/10)
I haven't seen 'The Ziff Who Came To Dinner' in quite some while, but as for the others, I'd probably rank them like this: 'The Way We Was', 'Half-Decent Proposal' and then 'The Front'.
As for the upcoming episode, 'The Last Tapdance In Springfield' is a good choice; the one where Homer's eyes crusts over.
This would probably be my second favorite. The Ziff Who Came to Dinner just beats it.
EDIT: About Homer's eyes crusting over: If I knew how to make gifs, that would be the first one I made. (hint, hint)
The original Favorite and least favorite by season
Shorts: 1: The Pacifier Watching TV 2: World War III Maggie's Brain 3: Bathtime Scary Movie
Episodes: 1: Krusty Gets Busted The Telltale Head 2: Bart Gets an F The War of the Simpsons 3: Homer at the Bat Separate Vocations 4: Brother From the Same Planet Krusty Gets Kancelled 5: Cape Feare $pringfield 6: Homer Badman Lisa on Ice 7: King-Size Homer Lisa the Iconoclast 8: Simpsoncalifragilisticexpialad'ohcious The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase 9: Girly Edition The Trouble with Trillions 10: Thirty Minutes Over Tokyo Homer Simpson in: "Kidney Trouble" 11: Guess Who's Coming to Criticize Dinner? Hello Gutter, Hello Fadder 12: HOMЯ Tennis the Menace 13: Tales from the Public Domain She of Little Faith 14: The Dad Who Knew Too Little Helter Shelter 15: The Ziff Who Came to Dinner Bart-Mangled Banner 16: Don't Fear the Roofer She Used to Be My Girl 17: My Fair Laddy The Italian Bob 18: The Haw-Hawed Couple You Kent Always Say What You Want 19: Funeral for a Fiend All About Lisa 20: Gone Maggie Gone Four Great Women and a Manicure 21: The Bob Next Door The Color Yellow 22: Homer Scissorhands How Munched is That Birdie in the Window? 23: The Falcon and the D'ohman A Totally Fun Thing That Bart Will Never Do Again 24: Hardly Kirk-ing What Animated Women Want
Alright then let's officially move discussion to Last Tap Dance in Springfield.
Well, I just got my review done on Half-Decent Proposal just in time before the discussion changes.
Anyway... Onto the next one. It's not really one of my personal favorites, though it does manage to be somewhat entertaining for the 21 minutes you're watching it.
Wow nothing going on in here so far huh? I remember that eye crusting joke was controversial, anyone care to give an opinion on it?
I have no problem with that joke. I think it's really funny, and I have NO IDEA why people don't like it.
I don't think it's that funny, but it's most defiantly not disturbing/disgusting...
Full review later...
Written by Julie Thacker and directed by Nancy Kruse, 'Last Tap Dance In Springfield' is episode twenty of the eleventh season. The story which is about Lisa who starts to learn tapdancing after having watched a movie about dancing, 'Tango de La Muerte', and rather quickly finds out that she is not cut out for dancing but still doesn't want to disappoint her parents is a pretty solid plot and the side story about Bart and Milhouse skipping their school camping trip to 'camp out' at the mall instead and ends up in trouble as the police gets involved and suspects that a giant rat is on the loose in the mall is a fun little subplot. It is not too wacky like many other episodes from around this time during the show, there's some fun moments here and there and find it quite enjoyable; it's simply put a good episode from this particular season that is generally considered to be the worst season ever by fans.
The animation of this episode is solid and seeing as is brightly colored and expressive at times; there's some really good shadowing in the first act and a couple of nice moments with some effectful animation, such as the bit at the start where 'The Cyborganizer' organizes papers in the police office (the lines that are briefly left behind from the arm movements is pretty fun and feels old-school); I also like the two blurred shots of Bart through the eye tester as Homer strangles him, those were pretty cool. At some points, I thought some of the characters were animated a little wierdly and looked slightly off model, but it might just be me nitpicking. The characterizations are all right; The Simpson kids are okay (however I think it's a little odd how Lisa just easily accepts taking the tap dancing class like that despite her desire to learn tango like in the movie she got inspired by), Homer is portrayed in a good and goofy manner and is not in a too jerkassy mode and Marge is fine as well, but that bit where she tells Lisa not to be smart mouth felt just a wee bit off (It must have been the tone). The other characters were portrayed well and I do not notice any big out of character moments that brings this episode down. As for the new and somewhat jaded character Vicky Valentine, she's alright; I know she is supposed to be a Shirley Temple parody and she serves her role well within the episode, but don't really care about the character too much.
As for the jokes and gags, there is quite a bit of those in the episode and those includes Homer finding out that the Cyborganizer TV show suddenly has suddenly been retooled ("I love you, daddy!"), Homer mistaking Baby Gerald for Maggie due to his poor eyesight, Bart and his tantrum threat to Marge ("But now I can't forget the cat!"), "Less yappin', more zappin'!", "As your wise but alcoholic dance coach, I know that somewhere, your father is looking down on you and smiling... oh, there he is!", the adult Mexican Milhouse, Kearney tricking Homer (who's still got his eyes crusted over) that he is Marge and drives towards the liquor store together with his two bully friends with some tasks for Homer, Homer's saying about the mall ("What?, what did he say!?"), "You must be Ralph""My daddy shoots people!", Milhouse throwing a golf shoe at Bart which sticks to his back due to the spikes ("Ow!, no golf shoes!"), the old folks doing a zombie routine outside the doors of the mall, Ralph's "Lisa's bad dancing makes my feet sad!", "Didn't you ever go to camp?; the old vitamin barn.", the fake cat arms during the Little Vicki movie and the line "Even the cat dances better than I do.", Chief Wiggum testing out the falling anvil rat trap by trying to snag the cheese in time but fails, the mountain lion quickly leaping out from it's crate only to immediately be knocked out by the falling anvil as it pounces the cheese (pretty easily my favorite gag in the episode; it's so wacky and it all happens within just a couple of seconds), Homer thinking that the plot of the dance is "hard to follow as it is" and how he ruins Frink's well-meaning lie to Lisa about the self-tapping shoes ("I was merely trying to spare the girl's feeling, you insensitive clod").
Overall, I think it's a pretty good episode despite not being one of the greatest post classic episodes. Many others say this is one of the best episodes from season eleven and while I don't think it's a overly great episode, I have no major problems with it either so I think I also have to say it is one of the better episodes from this season, which I agree is not one of their best seasons; It is not a perfect episode but it's not bad either and since there are not many really good episodes from the eleventh season, I am pretty sure I would rank this among the top episodes of the season.
Last edited by CousinMerl; 07-31-2011 at 09:54 AM.
Interesting stuff Zone, good job on the review! I'm still finishing up Season 10 for my blog so I won't be getting to this until tomorrow at the earliest, but you've reminded me of a few things I forgot were in this like the Cyborganizer. If I remember correctly this is also one of those rare episodes where Yeardley Smith voices a character besides Lisa with the female lead in that film.
For an evening or a week, there's no place like the mall.
Food, fun and fashion; -the mall has it all!
Directed by Nancy Kruse, assistant director Alex Ruiz, animation by Paul Wee, Sarge Morton, Bill Ho, Colin Heck, Jordan Young, Tim Bailey, and Kim Le, among others.
The scenes when Bart and Milhouse sneak away from the bus to camp are animated by Paul Wee, with his usual flare and distinct detailed facial features.
Sarge Morton does a few scenes around, too. Most notably, Homer and Marge reading Bart's postcard; His large eyes are very apparent.
"Didn't you ever go to camp? The old vitamin barn."
Sarge also did Lisa's line "The cat dances better than I do."
I think it's Colin Heck doing the bit where Bart tries to get out of shopping with Marge. Unless I'm mistaken, this is Colin's first time animating on The Simpsons.
It's reported that Colin animates alot of the dancing scenes during the recital, as well.
It appears Alex Ruiz does most of the scenes when Bart and Milhouse are hiding behind the plants, and they encounter the cougar.
Last edited by zartok-35; 08-01-2011 at 05:33 PM.
I'll be posting my complete review in a few days, but I'm taking my time to make sure it's nice and fluid to read (as well as interesting to read). This is probably one of the episodes that I have seen the most with my Season 11 DVD box set (around 9-10 times I would say) and I must say I've always been very impressed with the B story in this episode (Bart and Milhouse going to the Springfield Mall instead of heading off to camp). My favorite scenes from this episode are easily the ones where the Cougar is concerned. I've loved reading Numberzone's and Zartok's post for this episode!!
Last Tap Dance in Springfield
I agree with many that this is one of, if not the best, episode of season 11. The main story is sweet and interesting (With some great moments) While the subplot is more zany and funny (Which is a great mix in my eyes) Lisa was great as she acted like a normal eight year old and I really liked that she was trying something new to her. There are many moments I enjoyed including anything Professor Frink said, The tap dance teacher was also funny as was the Little Viki movie (With the hilarious cat who makes a reappearance during the end credits!)
I also don't mind the scenes in the mall (In the first act) and certainly don't get the upset for the crust appearing over Homer's eyes. I also really enjoy the final gag at the end with Kearney's hilarious impression of Marge. The later scenes in the mall with Bart and Milhouse are quite funny but were obviously used to add some zaniness to the story and could have easily not been included (But I'm glad they were)
To conclude, as a Scully episode this ranks amongst some of the best and as a season 11 episode it is probably the best (It's defiantly not season 7/8 standard but I still enjoy it very much so)
I never quite understood the love for this episode. It’s pretty good, but I don’t know if I’d consider it the best of s11 (probably top 5 or so. Most place it as the best, or ‘one of the best’, so I don’t know where it would be in those people‘s rankings). It’s a good episode but I think there are betters in the Scully era (not going to go naming them, if you’re curious drop me a PM or visitor message and I’ll be happy to answer).
I’ll start off with the humor. There’s some funny scenes in this. Ralph not being able to perform, the Tango De La Muerte movie (the Mexican Milhouse scene used to always make me laugh, sometimes just thinking about it made me chuckle. Just the way he talks and his appearance), Bart and Milhouse in the mall, the Little Vicki Valentine movie, amongst a few other things. I wouldn’t consider this one of the funniest of the season, in terms of humor it’s kind of weak I think. Those scenes made me laugh but they were about it. It’s the story that’s decent here, and I think it’s because of the story in the plot that people like it so much.
Lisa wants to go into tap dancing, but she can’t get it right. Her instructor annoys me. “Tappa tappa tappa” “Pulla pulla pulla”, etc. I just don’t think she’s very funny, the only part of her that made me laugh was that movie when she was younger (Or her “I’m ever so pissed!” to Professor Frink). All I know is she is definitely not one of my favorite one-time characters.
Bart and Milhouse’s plot in the mall is pretty good. Them messing around in the mall, and Wiggum releasing a puma (Milhouse’s reactions when he notices the puma for the first time is pretty funny) is good. Wiggum thinking the ‘giant rat’ is gone because he saw the string in the puma’s mouth is a good ending to the plot, as is him not putting the puma back in the cage.
Overall this is a gooo episode, but I don’t know if I would consider it one of the best from s11. Like I said up above, maybe top 5 or so. 3.5/5, rounded up to a 4 for this one.
EDIT: My bad. Computer problems made two posts.
Last edited by Nauru-1; 08-01-2011 at 10:11 AM.
I made a somewhat in-depth review of this episode elsewhere, so I've opted to kind of add on additional thoughts I have to that...
Take a typical season 11 and downplay the wackiness by a fair margin and you might end up with something like Last Tap Dance In Springfield. At a time when the show seemed to be running itself to the ground with unlikeable characters and insane storylines, Last Tap Dance emerges as one of the more genuinely entertaining episodes of the era.
Let's put the bad out there first. To start, this is still no classic. While a lot of the most frustrating elements of the show are toned down here, the episode is neither consistently hilarious nor particularly touching. On top of this, we've still got the obligatory annoying moments to concern ourselves (Homer strangling Bart in different levels of clarity, as well as his eyes crusting over). That Scully cynicism seems to linger around too with for instance Vicky being a little one-dimensionally cruel at times.
This being said, that's nothing compared to a lot of the stuff that came out around this time. And while I wouldn't say the humour was amazing, it's clear the comic timing for the show was still intact if put to the right use. The Shirley Temple-esque film is great and some bits with the present day Little Vicky give us some laughs as when she contradicts herself with how she would like to be called.
Let's also not underestimate the impact some less extreme characterizations can have as well. Homer is closer to a bumbling father in the last two acts than a tangent-driven imbecile, and it certainly helps the episode maintained a needed level of groundedness. Lisa, to her credit, still has a level of sweetness to her character in this one, so it helps to have her prominent in the episode as well.
We've also got a subplot that, while nothing spectacular, certainly doesn't diminish the episode too far and provides a silliness to contrast the main story. Bart and Milhouse being alone in the mall was certain a good idea with interesting enough results. I could probably take it or leave it, but I guess the idea that everyone in the family is busy with something upholds the family dynamic more than having Bart give the occasional one-liner would.
I'd put Days of Wine and D'oh'ses as the strongest episode of season 11, but Last Tap Dance in Springfield would probably be next up. That's not the biggest accomplishment in the world, but on its own terms I'll give Last Tap Dance In Springfield a solid 4/5 (B-).
Last edited by Nauru-1; 08-01-2011 at 12:17 PM.
Well said, Nauru! The later half of season 11 is one of my least favorite periods for the show, but this episode isn't nearly as mean or stupid as the other episodes coming out along side it.
Me, I really like the eye test scene; I thought it was very fresh, with brilliant and inventive execution.
I think because I've never really gotten anything out of the strangling even in the classics and this is just a variation on that, I was bound to not care for it. I do think it feels a little Scully-like, but it probably only stands out because Homer is far more grounded in the rest of this episode than he was in most season 11 episodes. I probably wouldn't even think to mention it otherwise.
Last Tap Dance in Springfield
Our episode this week comes from the dreaded 11th season of the show. Written by Julie Thacker, wife of Mike Scully, this episode finds us in the familiar territory of Lisa wanting to excel at something, but failing miserably. As Yeardley Smith perhaps puts it best on the commentary, "Why do you do this to Lisa Simpson?" Still, the episode manages to showcase Lisa as an 8 year old girl rather excellently.
We begin, after an appearance by the Cyborganizer, at the Springfield Mall where Homer is having his eyes checked out. At the same time Marge goes shopping for a big camping trip Bart is about to go on. Once done Lisa and she go see a film called the Tango de La Muerte. Lisa's expectations of the film and her shock when it does the exact opposite, is really a very nice touch in showing her age. The Milhouse doppelganger was also great. Lisa comes out of the theater inspired as she longs to dance like the heroine in the film, again a perfectly natural reaction for a child. At the same time Homer's eyes have crusted over after having laser eye surgery and Kearney has tricked him into taking the bullies for booze and smokes. Animation error alert here:Jimbo is wearing a brown hat in this scene. Anyway I adore this scene, as it is likely my favorite joke of the episode. Cast members should really imitate Marge more often as it usually brings hilarious results. The eye crust gag is admittedly gruesome but I've still always loved it.
Marge takes Lisa to Vicki Valentine's dance academy. Vicki, an obvious send-up of Shirley Temple, is voiced well by Tress MacNeille. Lisa eventually has to learn tap instead of the Tango de La Muerte, but she quickly finds she just isn't cut out for it. Vicki is no help as all she seems to give in the way of advice is "tapa, tapa, tapa." I love the line reading when Lisa talks back to her regarding how that really isn't enough. Lisa wants to quit but her parents' overwhelming affection guilts her into continuing. This also comes off as something natural for a girl of her age, and I really liked the scene overall. Homer and Marge being overly affectionate parents is rarely a bad thing.
As far as a B story goes this episode's is pretty good. Bart and Milhouse learn Nelson, in his bully rather than buddy form here, intends to beat the snot out of them all week at camp. So they decide to sneak into the mall and live there for a while. They leave several places a mess though so the police naturally decide a giant rat is the culprit. They decide to deal with it with two mountain lions. We get some fine instances of cartoon logic involving an anvil here as Bart and Milhouse escape and decide to go home. Overall like I said a funny little distraction from the main story. Also, I've begun to notice a bit of a running gag involving the elderly being perceived as zombies during this era of the show.
The big dance recital is coming up, but Lisa won't be in it as we don't live in a Communist dictatorship.(unfortunately) Professor Frink, as something of a kindred spirit, decides to help her out with self-tapping shoes. With them Lisa's dancing rivals that of Vicki herself. Unfortunately they go crazy during the recital, but Homer saves the day. As he says, "I didn't think I...just acted." I really love that line and line reading. In the end Lisa learns that just because she isn't cut out for tap dancing doesn't mean she won't have a bright future.
Not much else to say about this one that hasn't already been said. It is a solidly enjoyable episode which shines a bit brighter considering the season in which it appears. Although I admit I know I like at least 2 Season 11 episodes better this is still likely in my top 5 for the season. Everyone seems to be in character, the story and humor are both solid, and we get a good one time character and a solid use out of Professor Frink, a character I wished had more screen time. Good animation, particularly on the big dance scene at the end and the Shirley Temple-esque film with the delightfully racist butler and that great cat gag, as well. Overall I'll give this a solid 4/5.
Interesting reviews, this is probably my favourite Season 11 episode from memory. Unfortunately this is the only season I've yet to pick up on DVD, so I'll hopefully join you guys again next week.
Last Tap Dance In Springfield (Review):
This episode is obviously one of the better episodes in a pretty bad Season 11. I especially remember this episode being the only one I liked on my Disc 4 Season 11 DVD set. I hated the other ones!
The overall plot in this episode wouldn’t appear to be necessarily attractive if you hadn’t seen the episode (Lisa deciding to start dancing after seeing a movie called “Tango De La Muerte”). I mean come on; the writers can at least make an effort to come up with a story a little bit better than this, no? Sadly enough, there aren’t many episodes that are able to top this one in Season 11. But this episode does turn out to be a lot better than what the plot can make you think it is.
So lets start commenting on the episode itself. It starts out with Homer watching an advertisement on The Cyborganizer. I thought this start to be quite cunning because it gives the fan an instant smile on his face, right from the start of the episode.
We then have quite a long scene at the Mall. I thought that the writers came up with a great name for Homer’s eye repairing place at the mall: “Eye Caramba”. And the events that take place in “Eye Caramba” are quite hilarious (we have Homer sleeping while his eyes are being tested and Bart spelling out I8PP).
There’s quite a big chunk of the overall episode that’s kept for the movie Lisa and Marge go to see, Tango De La Muerte (I’d say they keep around a minute and a half out of the twenty minutes for the small movie). But I find that this is normal because the movie shown here is what launches the entire plot that’s supposed to keep us interested throughout the whole episode. I especially like the Mexican Milhouse they managed to stick into the movie.
One thing I found quite strange is Marge tells Lisa when they’re coming out of the cinema, that she needs Homer’s permission before Lisa starts her dancing career. I really don’t know why the writers didn’t leave this very small part out of the episode. I mean if Marge ever asked Homer’s permission for such a thing, wouldn’t Homer normally answer by saying something like “Meh, go ahead Marge, let her dance” while watching the television.
I really thought it was a great idea to have Kearney pretending to be Marge and driving Homer’s car (Dolph and Jimbo in the back seats were also a good addition).
Okay, now to get to little Vicky’s personality. I really thought it was great. I love the fact the writers kept adding the word “ever” in her sentences. I find that by doing this the writers instantly brought out her real personality. I also liked her obsession with “Tapa, Tapa, Tapa” another thing that brings out her personality quite quickly in this episode.
Growing up in America, I sometimes fell upon shows with girls who had the exact same sort of behaviour as little Vicky. Each time I watched this episode (and also “Treehouse Of Horror III” from Season 4 with that 2nd Segment called King Homer) I could never remember the exact name of the girl who had the same personality as little Vicky. Today I am proud to say I managed to find the name on Wikipedia: Shirley Temple. When I was small, I did see her in a couple of shows.
Ralph played a very minor role in this episode but I loved his sentence: “My Daddy shoots people.” Little Vicky’s reaction is hilarious. We hear her let out a “Mmm!” (with a shocked tone).
There’s one comment that Little Vicky makes before the big play that puts me into fits each time. Here it is:
“Ahh, sorry Lisa, but giving everyone an equal part when they’re clearly not equal is called what again class?”
The Class yells out: “Communism!”
“That’s right, and I didn’t tap all those morse code messages to the allies till my shoes filled with blood just to role out the welcome mat for the reds.”
Professor Frink is as good as usual. When I first started to watch the Simpsons, I couldn’t understand why the writers would keep him. I found him useless and strange because of the way he talked. But the more I saw him, the more I liked him.
Now to talk about the B story and I’ll have pretty much talked about the whole episode. This B story is very entertaining in my opinion and you’re in for some very good laughs. Milhouse plus Bart in a mall is equal to a hell of a lot of fun. But I think what really makes this B story so special is the fact that they added the three Springfield Police into the plot. Wiggum was great (him having the idea that a giant rat was behind all the mess in the mall was fantastic).
I don’t want to give this episode a final grade for the moment but I’ll think about giving it one later on.
Okay. It's apparently time for me to nominate an episode and for my nomination: I choose "Brother from the Same Planet".
Last edited by Zombies Rise from the Sea; 08-03-2011 at 07:56 PM.
Sorry Zombies, but that episode has already been discussed. The list is in the first post of this thread.
EDIT: Alright that is an acceptable and very nice choice. Discussion for it will begin Saturday.
Last edited by Oh, that's raspberry!; 08-03-2011 at 08:01 PM.
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