Rate and Review: "The Fight Before Christmas" (MABF22)

[Cartoonnetwork]

The Martha Stewart segment felt like Beyond Blunderdome or When You Dish Upon a Star to me. An episode based around a celebrity and the things they are known and not much else. No real substance and nothing really clever or original integrated into it. Parts of it, like when she inconvenienced Bart, Milhouse, Lisa and Homer for the sake of the decorations felt like they were poking fun at her; which is on the right track. I got to admit I did laugh at the way she covered up Homer's body like he wasn't even a person. But for the most part it felt like another shameless promotion of a celebrity and I just really don't get the point or appeal of that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have probably hated it if it had been a whole episode devoted to that but I thought this had the perfect length for what it was. Like some others have mentioned I also think it had other redeeming qualities: Marge didn't really meet Martha Stewart, she dreamt about her coming to visit, which is more realistic that the episodes you quoted in which Homer became a close friend of very famous people. Also, maybe it's me but, like you said, I did feel like they were poking fun at her during the whole segment. And even though we don't now anything about this woman in Spain I assume it's kind of natural for Marge to dream about her cause she's probably a well-known celebrities among housewifes.

[The Sovereign]

Never did I think anything would ever make me wish I was a Moe puppet, but there you go

[noaizuma]

I was about to seriously give this episode a 4/5 because of the Lisa protesting bullshit at the beginning. I'm so sick of this shit. This is like a charicature of her. She is so annoying...

Im actually a fan of Lisa, but even I have to admit that her protesting the Christmas tree was really annoying and only served to remind me that she protests something EVERY holiday before coming around to enjoy the spirit of the day for her family. I really wish they'd write her more like a kid...sigh

[Mr.]

That said I think the SS street segment was also really nice and people who thought it wasn't appropiate were exaggerating. Her clothes were not so revealing and I doubt kids would notice her boobs bouncing that much, the dress wasn't so tight and it wasn't a very big cleavage. I also think Katy did a pretty cute and funny performance in the Elmo segment, probably even more devoted to it than she acts in the OFF segment. I think her acting made her look like a big little girl playing games with a puppet-kid rather than the dirty slut some parents saw in her.

If I where over-protective ultra-PC parent, I would be more concern about the fact that this show have a character who live in the trash and everybody appears to be Ok in it… I can see kids 10 years later seeing a homeless person and going “Ow, that’s just a grouch. He enjoy living in the trash”…

I was wonder will an actual Muppet/Sesame street character will make cameo, but I guess they would promote the hell out of it (Promotion pictures of Homer with Kermit or something), sow I would probably know two months before the episode about. But I guess now Katy Perry counts as a Sesame Street character (from what I know she plans to reappear on that show)

Watching this segment again there is no direct reference to the “Elmo/Perry controversy” other then the fact she is among puppets.

I would love if Simpsons would had celebrity and it would be a surprise. But now they promote the slightest cameos like the guest star is the main character in the episode.
For me guest stars works if it’s either a very big part (like Michael Jackson, Mel Gibson, Liam Neeason or all the Baseball players in “Homer at the bat”) or ad least it’s one scene, but it’s solid satire about that celebrity (Alan Moore, Adam West, Tony Blair of all people) Unfortunately they sometimes bring a celebrity for two-lines-max and for me it’s just feels like a cheat on the fans. “Ow, look it’s him! Ow, there he goes! That’s it! Bye! Bye!” HECK! Sesame Street takes better care of their guest stars by giving them ad least 40 second screen time in person (so it’s not just their voice plus animated caricature replica) Then again I must admit, I love J.K. Rowling cameo in the “Simpsons visit England” episode, even if it’s fit to the category of celebrity appearances I mentioned I hate…
However I think Katy Perry was a Ok guest star since ad least it was more then just One gag and she didn’t felt wasted (Unlike some others I wont named).

I still waiting for Jim Carrey to pop-out in one episode… Waiting… waiting…

[Mr.]

Im actually a fan of Lisa, but even I have to admit that her protesting the Christmas tree was really annoying and only served to remind me that she protests something EVERY holiday before coming around to enjoy the spirit of the day for her family. I really wish they'd write her more like a kid...sigh

Agree. The bit with Lisa protesting agianst Christmas Trees, felt like parody of Lisa rather then actuall Lisa. Heck! Her behaviore remaind me of Batman character Poison Ivy, exept Ivy was acting this way beacose she was mentally insane and lock away in the Arkham Isylum or something.

A short momet, but it didn't ruind the episode for me.

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

Agree. The bit with Lisa protesting agianst Christmas Trees, felt like parody of Lisa rather then actuall Lisa. Heck! Her behaviore remaind me of Batman character Poison Ivy, exept Ivy was acting this way beacose she was mentally insane and lock away in the Arkham Isylum or something.

Wait, what???

If what you said was true then how can we tell parody of characters from the actual characters themselves. I mean if Dr. House played a parody of himself, would that be like Poison Ivy?

[Mr.]

Wait,
If what you said was true then how can we tell parody of characters from the actual characters themselves. I mean if Dr. House played a parody of himself, would that be like Poison Ivy?

What I was talking about is that Lisa’s behavior in that scene was like Lisa typical behavior but taken to extreme level, to the point it dose not feel like something she would actually do, but more like over-the-top version of Lisa would do” Uf!

What I meant by referring to Poison Ivy is that Ivy is a character with a eco fixation (fixation as in she have a mental illness) and for me the way Lisa act when they take her eco-censers and drive them to such extreme level it’s not far from Ivy behavior. Uf!

P.S.
Sorry if sometimes I have hard time making sence of my points. My english vocabulary is not that good.

[Comicshow MolemanBob]

Lisa didn't bother me she was just her usual self (may be a bit exaggerated but hey who cares) I mean it's part of the characters themselves, You can't hate on an episode because the character was doing what they usually do, just a bit exaggerated (Bart likes to skate - Bart the Daredevil, Marge likes to clean - The Mansion Family, Homer is an idiot - Homer's Enemy)

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

What I was talking about is that Lisa’s behavior in that scene was like Lisa typical behavior but taken to extreme level, to the point it dose not feel like something she would actually do, but more like over-the-top version of Lisa would do” Uf!

That's exaggeration, NOT parody. A parody is making fun or mocking something and I don't see Lisa being made fun of or mocked.

What I meant by referring to Poison Ivy is that Ivy is a character with a eco fixation (fixation as in she have a mental illness) and for me the way Lisa act when they take her eco-censers and drive them to such extreme level it’s not far from Ivy behavior. Uf!

Did you mean ego fixation, an accumulation of life experience organized during one's childhood and which shapes one's personality? I didn't know fixation could be an illness? Especially in Poison Ivy who I suspect is the way she is because she was raised badly. Also I've seen Lisa take her environmentalism beliefs to extremes before.

[Dark Homer]

the lisa thing felt more like



than



it didn't feel genuine, it just felt rote and forced, like the writers have a notecard that just says "lisa = protestor." I get that it was exaggerated and "plot-necessary" as something to frustrate marge, but it's emblematic of the way they've been handling her character for the past umpteen years

[Mr.]

That's exaggeration, NOT parody. A parody is making fun or mocking something and I don't see Lisa being made fun of or mocked.

I was using term "parody" not literally! It was so exaggerated it almost felt like watching somebody’s parody of Lisa then actual Lisa… Ow! Just never mind.

[D'ohmer]

the lisa thing felt more like



than



it didn't feel genuine, it just felt rote and forced, like the writers have a notecard that just says "lisa = protestor." I get that it was exaggerated and "plot-necessary" as something to frustrate marge, but it's emblematic of the way they've been handling her character for the past umpteen years

I agree with the fact that she was being incredibly forced and annoying in this episode. It felt like a spoof of her, which was previously mentioned. It's really annoying and I really wish the writers would stop using her like this, unless they are actually intentionally trying to annoy us.

[The Governor]

You're exactly the type character you are complaing about, except you are not a parody of yourself.

[Kiyosuki]

It's one of those "show being masochistic" examples for sure, I saw it as trying to be tongue in cheek meta about the perceived notion of many, of Lisa being a liberal mouthpiece (while often missing the point.). Kinda phoned in, but I didn't think about it much.

[noaizuma]

For me the bit at the beginning with the christmas tree felt really forced (even more so then normal for her) and actually made me role my eyes. But having said that it didnt overtly detract from the episode for me. Realistically though, with 4 segments and a wrap around they had to handle everyone as semi-extreme versions of themselves. Another minute of run time for the episode would probably have given' Bart an Lis a bit more room to set up their dream sequences more naturally.

Thinking back on it now, Barts dream lead-up, seemed pretty damn hallow as well, but he had a few shots to do it in, Lisa by contrast had 1 shot to set up her sequence (I believe it was only one, correct me if I'm wrong please).

I think the episode might have flowed better if they chopped out Lisa's segment and simply extended Bart's, while merging the two sequences together. AKA something like, set it in world war 2 with Marge fighting and Homer home; both kids get on the polar express; find that santa's elves are anything but happy ( giving Lis something to bitch about); and having Marge come in all "Inglorious Bastards" like to take the fat man down.

Not perfect but maybe better.

[Rowdy Roddy Peeper]

The Simpsons finally grew balls and made their first eating-out reference in 21 years. Nothing wrong with it I guess

I beg to differ. Not a fan of the 'eating-out' jokes on The Simpsons. The show used to be better then that, it didn't need to resort to it.

[IceDoesntHelp]

Is it just me or did it sound forced when Lisa said that she liked meat? I feel that's the first time she's felt forced to say something since Lisa's Wedding. When she's with Hugh and they talk about how wrong it is to eat meat. Seemed forced there too.

[The Governor]

[QUOTE=Rowdy Roddy Peeper;2789500]

The Simpsons finally grew balls and made their first eating-out reference in 21 years. Nothing wrong with it I guess[/quote[

I beg to differ. Not a fan of the 'eating-out' jokes on The Simpsons. The show used to be better then that, it didn't need to resort to it.

I wouldn't take too much stock in such worthless praise like this. The same people who thought this maligned muppets disfigurement with a 5 minute pop star was hot shit are the people who made the "_____ Movie" franchise popular.

[Flimpson Tide]

I wasn't praising it, I was observing it happened while saying I was less bothered by it than others. The reason I brought it up was because all these years the writers have been petrified to make any sort of female sexual anatomy-related gag besides "Uter-us" in season 12, while "penis" has been written in to maybe 10 episodes or so at this point. Considering the show's perhaps more toned down and family-oriented than ever, it's kind of a big deal that they occasionally feel the need to resort to raunchy penis gags, but now they've just realized that women have vaginas.

And I wasn't whacking off to Katy Perry's appearance. Jesus.

[Cash Kerouac]

If I where over-protective ultra-PC parent, I would be more concern about the fact that this show have a character who live in the trash and everybody appears to be Ok in it… I can see kids 10 years later seeing a homeless person and going “Ow, that’s just a grouch. He enjoy living in the trash”…

Heh, just like Oscar the Grouch.

[NoOneFamous]

I wouldn't take too much stock in such worthless praise like this. The same people who thought this maligned muppets disfigurement with a 5 minute pop star was hot shit are the people who made the "_____ Movie" franchise popular.

Uh.. well *I* liked it because it was a decent Muppet Show parody, they took several knocks at themselves, and most importantly, it was something different than the same old crap we've been sitting through for many, many seasons.

[The Governor]

Uh.. well *I* liked it because it was a decent Muppet Show parody, they took several knocks at themselves, and most importantly, it was something different than the same old crap we've been sitting through for many, many seasons.

Here's from DHC:

"The Muppet Show was both a revival and a satire of old vaudeville and variety shows, and part of its charm was that it was willing to mock the genre which spawned it. That’s why it had all those backstage segments, why there was always a story underpinning the variety show that the television audience (but not the theater audience) saw. Yes, they were going to show you the straight up performances, but there were also things going on behind the scenes that tied everything together. Even when the actual performances were overly hokey or deliberately awful, there was never any doubt in the audience’s minds that the show knew what it was doing.

Zombie Simpsons ignored that whole aspect of The Muppet Show, leaving the cringe inducing sitcom drama about the boss coming over unexpectedly to stand on its own. (That they had already done something extremely similar – as an example of what not to do – in Season 11’s “Behind the Laughter” doesn’t help matters.) This is the equivalent of mocking “Springtime for Hitler” without acknowledging The Producers around it, or trying to parody 30 Rock by talking exclusively about what a terrible show “TGS with Tracy Jordan” is. With the exception of a faint hearted stab at irony with Grampa and Jasper as Statler & Waldorf, Zombie Simpsons dropped the whole framework that made The Muppet Show work. All that was left was a boring, cliche ridden puppet show."

[noaizuma]

Is it just me or did it sound forced when Lisa said that she liked meat? I feel that's the first time she's felt forced to say something since Lisa's Wedding.

I think a bit, but that might have been the point. It could have been a joke that simply failed to launch.

[The Wiggs]

I thought this was a pretty bad episode. Only the WWII segment was good. The Martha Stewart segment was terrible. 2/5

[Cartoonnetwork]

Here's from DHC:

"The Muppet Show was both a revival and a satire of old vaudeville and variety shows, and part of its charm was that it was willing to mock the genre which spawned it. That’s why it had all those backstage segments, why there was always a story underpinning the variety show that the television audience (but not the theater audience) saw. Yes, they were going to show you the straight up performances, but there were also things going on behind the scenes that tied everything together. Even when the actual performances were overly hokey or deliberately awful, there was never any doubt in the audience’s minds that the show knew what it was doing.

Zombie Simpsons ignored that whole aspect of The Muppet Show, leaving the cringe inducing sitcom drama about the boss coming over unexpectedly to stand on its own. (That they had already done something extremely similar – as an example of what not to do – in Season 11’s “Behind the Laughter” doesn’t help matters.) This is the equivalent of mocking “Springtime for Hitler” without acknowledging The Producers around it, or trying to parody 30 Rock by talking exclusively about what a terrible show “TGS with Tracy Jordan” is. With the exception of a faint hearted stab at irony with Grampa and Jasper as Statler & Waldorf, Zombie Simpsons dropped the whole framework that made The Muppet Show work. All that was left was a boring, cliche ridden puppet show."

The segment was too short. If they had done a whole episode instead of a segment maybe they could have used that aspect of the show. In any case when you do a parody or a reference to another show you're not obliged to imitate every aspect or virtue of that same show.

This segment had a deliberately corny plot and lines and I thought it was clear enough to make it funny. Besides, some of the gags were actually funny and not just because of the corny aspect: Homer and Lisa packing their necessities is a decent gag, and it's improved with the puppets making a typical "muppet" expression.

There were a lot of references to the show (Homer's and Lisa's laugh, the characters dancing when the guest star comes to visit and announcing it like Kermit usually did, Lisa looking to the camera when Bart fainted, Abe and Jasper, the dog gag was typical Muppet stuff with the mencion of the low budget) and creative gags involving that the characters were puppets (Moe's telephone, Ned losing his arms) and most of Mr. Burns and Moe's lines and actions were better than their stuff in plenty of the recent episodes.

This worked at least as well as Simpson Spin-Off Showcase and unless you dislike that episode as well, I don't think this is something to get mad at "zombie Simpsons". They wouldn't be so "zombie" if they tried new things like this one on a regular basis.

Would have been better with another celebrity or without any celebrity at all? Perhaps, but I personally don't think Katy Perry was so awful. She was hot, mildly funny and apart from "I kissed a girl and I liked it" there were not so many references to her songs or career, so I think the segment will be pretty understandable in years to come, even if Katy's career goes down the toilet in the next future. There have been worse guest stars and also much better guest stars that were awfully used. This wasn't that bad unless you have to look for a reason to complain.

[Jesse Pinkman]

i know the title is a parody, but couldn't they have parodied something else christmas related? everytime i see the title i try to think of a fight in the episode. the title implies that there is a fight between characters, and to the best of my knowledge, i don't remember one. obviously i know it's a parody, but couldn't they have parodied something else, a movie, tv show... (or just use something dumb, like "Simpsons Christmas Stories II")

[Cartoonnetwork]

The fight in the title makes reference to Marge's struggle to make her family more involved in the Xmas spirit. I think it's a pretty decent title that kinda evokes the premise of the episode.

[The Governor]

The segment was too short. If they had done a whole episode instead of a segment maybe they could have used that aspect of the show. In any case when you do a parody or a reference to another show you're not obliged to imitate every aspect or virtue of that same show.

You're right, the segment was too short, but the episode didn't create itself. And if they had tried to make the entire episode around a true 'muppets' parody, it could've been truly funny, but due to the minuscule time allotted the whole effort came off half-assed, IMO. Also, I'm pretty sure you are aware that just because something gets referenced, or alluded to, that doesn't make it clever. Pretending it does makes your show look pathetic.

This segment had a deliberately corny plot and lines and I thought it was clear enough to make it funny. Besides, some of the gags were actually funny and not just because of the corny aspect: Homer and Lisa packing their necessities is a decent gag, and it's improved with the puppets making a typical "muppet" expression.

You're right, again, but it was also not trying to be a parody, it was an attempt to be a direct, Simpsonized Muppets episode, but without any parody. Compare that to the Simpsons Spinoff showcase where O&W used the stock Simpsons characters, but the segments were more an attack on how bad stereotypical spinoffs of the 70's and 80's were. O&W didn't rename Homer and Marge "Joanie and Chachi" and try to recreate a Joanie Loves Chachi episode with Simpsons characters.

...and most of Mr. Burns and Moe's lines and actions were better than their stuff in plenty of the recent episodes.

That's not saying much. My cat's coughed up funnier things compared to recent episodes.

This worked at least as well as Simpson Spin-Off Showcase and unless you dislike that episode as well, I don't think this is something to get mad at "zombie Simpsons". They wouldn't be so "zombie" if they tried new things like this one on a regular basis.

It's pretty common knowledge that format bender episodes are very popular here. Granted there are some that are well done in this era of the show (Eternal Moonshine & Spinoff Showcase), but the well is going to run dry of "gee, how can we do this Simpsons episode TOTALLY off the wall!" format benders. Hell, I'm still expecting the announcement of a live-action simpsons episode (not counting the opening). About the only aspect of this episode that was neat was how well they got the Simpuppets to look, sans Marge.

This wasn't that bad unless you have to look for a reason to complain.

Yep, that´s it. Very good description of how to defend and enjoy the current "zombie" Simpsons--Notice a decent one-liner and some shallow references, some stuff happens here, some stuff happens there, and then it´s over.

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

i know the title is a parody, but couldn't they have parodied something else christmas related? everytime i see the title i try to think of a fight in the episode. the title implies that there is a fight between characters, and to the best of my knowledge, i don't remember one. obviously i know it's a parody, but couldn't they have parodied something else, a movie, tv show... (or just use something dumb, like "Simpsons Christmas Stories II")

The Night Before Christmas

[Jesse Pinkman]

like i said in my original post, i get the parody. i just thought a different title might be better suited