south park general discussion/upcoming episode thread

[TriforceBun]

Yeah, I definitely agree with the sentiment in this thread. It was perhaps a little worse a couple years ago, when it seemed like every other episode involve some sort of raid by a bunch of suit-wearing guys and the kids were merely along for the ride.

I too am wondering where characters like Jimbo, Ned, Mayor McDaniels, Barbrady, Bebe, Clyde, Timmy, Dougie, and Big Gay Al have gone off to. The parents--minus Randy, Lianne, and a couple recent exceptions like Sheila--have been used less and less too. Sergeant Harrison Yates has all but replaced Barbrady entirely, and while he's not a bad character, I'd like to see the two of them actually interact for once.

So yeah, the stories seem more current event driven than character driven, and they wedge the characters in there to make it South Park, but they often don't do much central to their personalities.

That said, I love South Park's take on Canadians, with their bizarre flapping heads and quirky voices, so I'm still looking forward to this one.

[DotheBartman]

It's a blessing as much as it is a curse, I think. All the secondary characters that people miss were much more central in the first three or four seasons...but those episodes were (IMO) a lot weaker than what we have now, I think. And a lot of the characters weren't anything special, anyway, and were pretty one-joke. Barbrady was pretty funny, but he was just a stereotypical dumb cop like on any other show. Someone like Jimbo is almost indistinguishable as a character. Saying that a lot of them were "one-dimensional" even when they were used more often would actually be rather generous.

There's too many one-time characters now, but as long as the better ones (e.g. Butters) don't fade out, I don't care too much.

[Ryan]

Thank god they're not focusing on Mr./Mrs. Garrison anymore. God I was getting sick of that.

[DotheBartman]

I still thought it was funny up through the resolution of it, but yeah, they probably milked it for all it was worth.

On that note, I know South Park gets criticized (sometimes quite rightfully) for killing or overusing jokes within episodes, but I think they're actually pretty good about ending long-running jokes that stopped being funny (or slightly before that point): Chef singing every show, constant Kenny deaths, lame Cartman catch phrases, Stan puking, Professor Chaos, etc. I feel the disappearance - or death - of characters like Ned, or Mephisto, or Barbrady, or the bus driver, or whoever else is really just an extension of that. They outlasted the original humor of their characters, so they went away. It's not like, say, The Simpsons, which apparently(?) still thinks that Sideshow Mel giving dramatic declarations is funny, for whatever reason.

[TriforceBun]

I think Garrison is a genuinely entertaining character and one of South Park's best secondaries (although he was pretty unbearable in the episode where he becomes a woman, I thought). But episodes like Death Camp of Tolerance, Proper Condom Use, and The Brown Noise all had a lot of fun, twisted stuff with him and I think he can still be used to great effect.

I agree with DTB about some of the old running gags, but I think several of them--like Kenny's deaths, Chef's songs, and Professor Chaos--have had enough variety, creativity, and (later) inversion that they still felt pretty funny and fresh throughout. And they were also quick, if nothing else.

Barbrady's pretty simplistic but he has a good Wiggum-esque role in the show that's not really filled by Sergeant Yates. And I've always liked Jimbo!

I guess one's mileage will vary with the characters, but I think the bottom line is that people generally want to see more stories within South Park, involving (ideally, almost entirely) South Park's characters, and keeping one-time characters or angry violent groups to a minimum. We still see a lot of the four kids, Butters, Jimmy and Randy, but not much of anyone else on a regular basis.

[Jakebert]

i'm not saying that the show's supporting cast is some amazing group of deep, well thought out characters. but they are fun characters to spend time with, which can't really be said of any of the one-episode characters the show has introduced in the last like 4 seasons. really, the one-episode characters perfectly symbolize the difference between south park at it's peak during like seasons 3-7 and now. the show took on satirical targets, but was still just really fun and silly underneath everything. even the dark humor of those seasons was used in a really absurd way, rather than the constant need to make these larger social statements over and over again, or the faux-dramatic storylines that are getting really repetative.

when the show still used the secondary cast a lot, the show still had the light, silly sense of humor underneath all of the satire and darkness, which is why the show worked so well and why it doesn't now. the show has no charm anymore, and really, they could do an entire episode without any of the 4 boys and i doubt anyone would notice at this point.

and i really like jimbo too. he's one of the most fun characters of the earlier seasons.

[DotheBartman]

I agree with DTB about some of the old running gags, but I think several of them--like Kenny's deaths, Chef's songs, and Professor Chaos--have had enough variety, creativity, and (later) inversion that they still felt pretty funny and fresh throughout. And they were also quick, if nothing else.

I liked a lot of those, but my point is that they were stopped (or stalled) before they could become really grating and tired. Kenny still dies now and then, and it's still funny, but it wouldn't be funny anymore if they kept killing him every episode, like some people want them to. Professor Chaos still shows up now and then when appropriate, but it would be really annoying if they tried shoving it into every other episode to appease fans of it. Stuff like that. Matt and Trey have been pretty good about recognizing when a long-running joke is stale (or about to become stale) and doing away with it, and then bringing it back when it's actually appropriate and funny again. Even if they often pound on a joke over and over within an individual episode.

I think I've always felt like South Park has better "ideas" than it does characters; not that some of them aren't great characters, of course, but the secondary characters in particular were never a huge draw for me. I tune in to see what crazy, creative thing Matt and Trey do next. I think the big government conspiracies and whatnot are getting stale, but if there's actually a problem with the character-usage in particular (I'm not sure that there is, but for the sake of argument), it's if anything that they need to establish some new characters to do new things with. Again, they already bring back old characters when it's appropriate, but I think it would be a mistake to just try to re-integrate a bunch of old characters whose central jokes stopped being funny during the Clinton administration, and have them appear on a regular basis just to appease people who happened to like some of them. I mean, I liked, say, Ned, but "guy talks through a voice box and has a weird voice" aint exactly a fresh joke anymore. I think if anything they had the right idea replacing Barbrady with Sgt. Yates, and I'd like to see them do more of that where necessary.

I think the Sideshow Mel comparison (not even the only Simpsons example, just one of the better ones among approximately 300,000 or so) bears repeating. Imagine if they had actually phased him out before we all started dreading his appearances on the show. I'm guessing everyone would be complaining about him not being around anymore, but it would have been the right choice. Instead we got, well, what we got.

[TriforceBun]

I do agree with your comparison to many of The Simpsons' secondaries, DTB, but the purpose of a lot of SP's secondaries wasn't just to pop up and have a quirky line or two. The best years of the show (IMO) often used the characters to fill very clever roles: Garrison became a tool to show the lengths that people will go to appear "tolerant" (Death Camp of Tolerance), Chef gets riled up at all the "white crackers" in South Park when the flag isn't changed, Bebe blossoms over the summer and drives the other kids wild, Mr. Slave (who's normally as one-note as it gets) has a ridiculous, triumphant scene in the Paris Hilton ep, etc. A lot of this stuff could've been done with one-time, new characters and take place in different locations, but what helped the episodes work is that they stayed in South Park with the central cast.

There's a lot more episodes these days with one or two kids leaving and interacting only with each other and various nameless buisnessmen, scientists, agents, etc (many of whom get killed in some way or another), and it's just not as entertaining to me as them sticking around in South Park and having the secondaries fill those roles themselves. Like you said, most of them aren't that well-developed, but that's the point of putting them in major roles! Otherwise characters like Apu, Sideshow Bob, and Butters would've never evolved past their relatively simple first appearances.

But on that note, next week's episode takes place at the school, so yay!

SOUTH PARK
TITLE: T.M.I.
Episode #1504 Air date: May 18, 2011

Cartman throws a fit when the boy’s penis sizes are posted on the school bulletin board, He is sent to anger management therapy.

[DotheBartman]

Oh yeah, I agree with a lot of that. One thing I notice in later Simpsons episodes is that there's more of a reliance on the characters that are truly one-dimensional, like Cletus, the Sea Captain, Disco Stu...characters who are funny, but do not really possess the potential for any real development, because that isn't their purpose. I think it was easier to flesh out characters like Mr. Burns, Apu, Krusty, Skinner, etc because they played particular roles in the series and in the lives of the main characters; bosses, teachers, favorite entertainers, store clerks, etc. So there was more to do with them because they were built around a role within the town and the main family's lives that needed to be filled. It became more problematic when the writers apparently thought it was way funny to use the one-dimensional characters to the exclusion of other characters (or make the others more one-dimensional). I think it was Tim Long who said that his favorite characters were all "aggressively one-note" characters with literally one joke that repeats over and over, which is telling. And they got so reliant on these characters as well as exhausting the others that eventually there were actually entire episodes based around Comic Book Guy and Groundskeeper Willie and Cletus...needless to say, not as good as episodes about Mr. Burns and Skinner were.

.....which, for South Park relevance, is to say that I like the "aggressively one-note," so to speak, characters on South Park have been mostly phased out or "under-used" over the years. The earlier years of South Park were very, very oriented toward catchphrases and specific recurring gags (Kenny dying, Chef singing, etc) and I think Matt and Trey recognized this and got sick of it themselves. It's not that, say, Mr. Mackey or Garrison (characters that are still around, tellingly) can be further developed, but I think Dr. Mephisto and Officer Barbrady are the sorts of characters that really can't be.... and I think Matt and Trey knew that, hence their disappearance. They show up when they're relevant or they actually have something they can do with them again, rather than sort of being shoved in our faces by writers that think it's "hilarious!" to intentionally annoy the audience with bad or tired jokes. (The Simpsons writers now must be the most hipster people on earth, since they apparently now write every joke "ironically.")

I would like to see more of the better characters instead of lots of generic government agents and whatnot all the time (the recurring "government conspiracy" type plots are one of the few things on the series that I think is getting truly tired)....but, I think that still happens to some extent anyway. The good ones are still around. Even in the older/middle seasons, certain characters would kind of disappear for a while and then all of a sudden show up in a story after not really appearing for two years, just because South Park has such short runs and so many characters and only so much time to spend on them. The last time, say, Bebe had a really major role was three years ago (S11)...which, in South Park terms, really isn't that long given that she hadn't had a major role for five years before that. I think Token had a major role that same season and his last one beforehand was six years before. Timmy and Jimmy typically get an episode every season or so, ever since they were first introduced. Etc. The really worthy side characters are still around - perhaps not quite as much as they should be - but it's more noticeable when a particular character hasn't done much lately because even episodes done almost two years ago are within 20-30 shows.

Sorry, that got rambly.

[DotheBartman]

Next episode, "Crack Baby Athletic Association":

Crack babies are finally getting the attention they deserve in an all-new episode of "South Park" titled "Crack Baby Athletic Association", premiering on Wednesday, May 25 at 10:00 p.m. on Comedy Central.

Cartman has a new protege. He's found someone who is smart, ambitious and willing to look the other way in order to get to the top.

Kyle is brought in on the ground floor of Cartman's latest business venture, the Crack Baby Athletic Adventure.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip...79/hear-us-out

[Oh, that's raspberry!]

That sounds terrible...

[Jesse Pinkman]

no idea what to think. sounds kinda bad but hopefully they can take a bad premise and churn out a good one

[Mr. Krikt]

I have to agree with the posts complaining that the characters are purely incidental now and are vehicles for involving themselves with scientists/government agents/current events. I really would like an episode that took place completely in South Park with characters from the town.
I've grown bored of them meeting CEOs of companies like EA and Apple or meeting random celebrities like the comedians from FunnyBot. Even TMI had them threatening the Obama administration.

[Jesse Pinkman]

is south park studious reliable? it says the next episode is titled 'city sushi' and about butters having a multiple personality disorder and the boys trying to help him. is this reliable? if not, i apologize

[DotheBartman]

Yeah, it's the official site for the show's production studio.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/news...-press-release

[Jesse Pinkman]

oh, cool. in that case, sounds good i think

[chris]

so how many times do you guys think the chinese guy is gonna say 'shitty sushi'

[Flimpson Tide]

Going back to the posts about character usage on the show, I think it would be neat just to see a season where Comedy Central ups the order to 18 episodes or so. Then we could see whether we get more "boys being boys" episodes (I'm getting to hate that phrase; it sounds very corny), South Park character appearances over government agents and celebs, or just extra current event satire. I know Matt and Trey have no ideas after a few shows and they scramble to put ideas together. But maybe if they just relaxed a little and started their work beforehand on some of those shows that aren't timely (City Sushi, Crack Baby Athletic Association), put those developed shows on the back burner and threw some current event-related shows in when they have an idea, then everything would go more smoothly. They must only work 15 weeks or so per year, but why do they so enjoy cramming all that work into a few weeks of extreme pressure?

And just for the record, the episode Chickenlover proves that Barbrady could be a fleshed out character. He was hilarious and how he got chopped over the years for the other policeman is beyond me.

[Diversity Pumpkin]

Can I just archive my prediction here regarding Kenny's powers?

Trey Parker said in the Mysterion commentary that a secret to his mythos is hidden in one of the episodes. I think I found it... some graffiti on a wall saying "hypnotism". I believe that anyone who views his death is hypnotized into thinking it never happened somehow. It also covers why their reactions to his death differ in some episodes - deep in their subconcious they know it's happened before.

Thought I'd post this on the off chance I'm actually correct.

[Jesse Pinkman]

wasn't it mentioned it was in one of the comic strips in one of the episodes? or was that about something else? either way that sounds like a good theory

[WeaselStomper]

It was indeed mentioned. Which gave me my theory: in one of the comics, you see a baby having a Satanic ritual performed on it. My guess is that Kenny had it done to him, which gave him is powers.

[Diversity Pumpkin]

Yeah, it was mentioned in the comic strips - that's where my theory came from. Shit... you're probably right about the ritual though, since that's what actual Cthulhu cultists do. Can't believe I missed that.

[Jesse Pinkman]

Yeah, it was mentioned in the comic strips - that's where my theory came from.

oh, ok. i thought you meant written on a wall in south park during one of the outdoor scenes

[DotheBartman]

Next episode: "You're Getting Old"

After Stan celebrates his 10th birthday, he begins to see everything differently. The other boys think he's become a major buzzkill and start to avoid hanging out with him. When Stan and Kyle have a major blow up, the very fabric of South Park begins to unravel.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/news...-press-release

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip...dly-even-music

[Ryan]

Sounds like another meta-bender like the Coon trilogy last year. Probably addressing the "we've only aged two years in fifteen years" issue, which honestly sounds a bit interesting.

Trey and Matt must be exhausted, as it seems they've been flying between NYC and LA during this seven-week production process. After this one they fly back out again to attend the Tony's.

At least after Team America and SP:BLU they only had to focus on South Park and that's it.

[Jesse Pinkman]

this is the mid-season finale right? sounds pretty good. a lot of people haven't liked this season but i think it's pretty good, and this episode sounds good too

[Wavy Gravy]

Wouldn't it be interesting if Trey and Matt used this upcoming episode to comment on how they themselves are getting pretty old? I've been reading a lot of recent interviews where they seem to hint that they're tired of doing South Park and are about ready to wrap it up. And I can't blame them, since they're in their early 40s now and they're clearly interested in doing new projects.

Speaking from personal experience, I know when I get bored with a long-term art project, like a daily web comic or a series of commissions, I'll tend to put it off longer and longer until I'm right up against the deadline, and then the end result will be kind of shitty. Seems like a pretty apt description of the last few years of South Park, if you ask me.

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

Most of the recent episodes seem to be building up a mythology for the show; I expect this episode to connect to at least some points in the show if it does add something to the still growing mythology.

[Oh, that's raspberry!]

So I'm watching that episode from 2007 that's basically just a giant 300 spoof and I got to thinking: When did this show just become stories parodying current movies/tv shows/events/video games? I know they tore apart celebrities from the first season but it just seems like 75% of all episodes from the past decade just use townsfolk to replace something from real then-current events. These episodes just seem really lazy to me and I genuinely miss the episodes just about the boys and the townsfolk like Ike's Wee Wee or Chicken Lover or Cow Days...but from what I here Matt and Trey actually hate that era of episodes.

[HappyPalooza]

Whoa, so I haven't been watching this season but the episode that just aired was... interesting. I actually want to know what's going to happen when the season starts again, if not just because they acknowledged their formulaic approach of recent years. I wanna know if that was just a throwaway joke or if they're actually going somewhere genuine with it.