Marvel vs DC

[D4C]

The problem with those big crossovers... you have to know so many characters and so much background to be able to actually understand the whole mess. But I liked the whole Batman RIP-stuff and "the Black Glove"-storyline. And the current Green Lantern-comics never fail to amuse. Still, I prefer my superheroes in animation. Nothing can beat the DCAU.
The DTV-movies they're making are also ok. (New Frontier, Green Lantern)
And Batman the Brave and the Bold is a riot of course.

Well that's jsut the thing. If you don't know who the characters are, you have three options: learn, forgive or ignore. Look them up on the internet. Look over them. Or don't read it.

I personally love that they keep track of nearly every character that has ever been printed under their label. At least moreso today. 616 Marvel's stories don't have the sliding timeline, so Spider-Man might as well be 50 years old. That or those earlier stories never happened. Except they might've but more recently. Except you never know. Regardless, if a comic features characters you don't know or want to get to know: it's not made FOR you.

My only real criticism with Marvel though is Ultimate Comics. They rebooted/tweaked the reboot of their ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Ultimate series were the alternative to the complicated 616. Then Ultimate became so complicated they had to re-work IT into Ultimate Comics. At least with DC there's a concentrated effort to keep it all under one banner.

[Dr. Horrible]

except that dc has the multiverse and will just change things on a whim whenever they have a "crisis"

[cinco]

616 Marvel's stories don't have the sliding timeline, so Spider-Man might as well be 50 years old. That or those earlier stories never happened.

Or they pull a "One More Day".


About the investment in a whole universe:
Look, some characters do interest me, but by letting everybody crossover with everybody, they force you to follow their entire line of comics or you're lost. Look at "the Mighty Avengers". After the Secret Invasion, there is a totally new role-cast (Jocasta? never heard of her) and after three episodes they already start again with crossovers, starting with the Fantastic Four, followed by the Dark Avengers. It's just placing marketing above storytelling.

Remember Whedon's Astonishing X-men? That was a self-contained story and it was the best X-men story from recent years.
No crossovers, no bazillion side-characters, but a good plot, great characterization and beautiful art.

[jordan]

I like cinco

[D4C]

Or they pull a "One More Day".


About the investment in a whole universe:
Look, some characters do interest me, but by letting everybody crossover with everybody, they force you to follow their entire line of comics or you're lost. Look at "the Mighty Avengers". After the Secret Invasion, there is a totally new role-cast (Jocasta? never heard of her) and after three episodes they already start again with crossovers, starting with the Fantastic Four, followed by the Dark Avengers. It's just placing marketing above storytelling.

Remember Whedon's Astonishing X-men? That was a self-contained story and it was the best X-men story from recent years.
No crossovers, no bazillion side-characters, but a good plot, great characterization and beautiful art.

Marketing is important. Would you really read some of the stories DC and Marvel makes into monthlies without a jumping on point? Few people are willing to add something new, or at least: new to them to their pull list.

[cinco]

Marketing is important. Would you really read some of the stories DC and Marvel makes into monthlies without a jumping on point? Few people are willing to add something new, or at least: new to them to their pull list.

I live in a country with a whole different comic-culture. Maybe that's the reason I don't understand some decisions from american publishers.

[HappyPalooza]

http://www.cinematical.com/2010/02/2...ptain-america/

So it's looking a lot like our very own Jim Halpert may be playing the icon known as Captain America. Before reacting to this bizarre casting choice, sit on it for a bit. When I heard the rumor at first I was totally opposed, after thinking about it for an hour or so I really dug it. It could work.

Figured this would be an appropriate place to post this for the time being.

[mr. broom]

I could see it

Thing is, that list doesn't look super official and it doesn't look like they've really narrowed it down

[Krustyburger]

DC comics are better than Marvel. I read some Marvel comics online the other day (the one about Marvel superheroes turned zombies, and an x-men issue) and it was painfully boring. DC has crazy good stories. Although, admittedly, I haven't read a DC comic book in the last ten years. But still, it was always like that. DC has deep, compelling stories. Marvel is entertaining, but it rarely gets deep.

[Dr. Horrible]

maybe you should try reading something other than marvel zombies...

[CMYK]

Ive always been a Marvel fan, but Ive recently gotten into DC because of the Watchmen Comic Book and the Batman, The Dark Night movie. But ignoring the film franchise I will always be a Spiderman Jockey.

I try not to get overwhelmed by the amount of universes with the Aliens/Mutants that both Marvel and DC both produce. Pretty much they have both, but its really just that.

Are you a mutant or Alien.

[jim]

DC has deep, compelling stories. Marvel is entertaining, but it rarely gets deep.

The Marvel fans probably disagree, but I've always thought the same thing. I tried many times over the years to get into Marvel and found them entertaining but more concerned with having thousands of characters and flashy battle scenes than character. DC has always seemed to be more interested in character studies (especially Batman and his villains) and personal drama (Lois and Superman) which is what kept my interest in them up as I got older. They also have a really cool noir and fantasy feeling to them which I prefer over Marvel's sci-fi vibe.

[mr. broom]

A huge percentage of the people who write for either franchise write for both, so this is a ridiculous comparison. Warren Ellis doesn't write more noir for DC and more scifi for Marvel, and he certainly doesn't write "deeper" for DC and "shallower" for Marvel (before anyone says something: this is just as true for lesser-known writers as it is for the big names)

The only major difference between the two big comics companies, period, is their approach to continuity--Marvel lets writers ignore continuity they don't like after a certain amount of time, whereas DC demands much more rigid adherence to canon at any given time and only makes adjustments by deliberate alteration (both Crises, Zero Hour, etc.), after which things must now adhere to the new canon. Other than that, you can't point to anything that DC does in some of its books that Marvel doesn't do, or vice versa

All you're doing is expressing your preference for one brand by imagining there's a substantial difference in the way they go about their business. The only tonal differences are between any two given books; you can't compare, say, Batman and Iron Man and say, "Look--noir vs. scifi" because, well, no shit. There's nothing wrong with having a preference. Let's not pretend it's for any other reason than that DC/Marvel has more characters you like or is somewhat more likely to employ a writer you enjoy

[CalculatedChaos]

Such a difficult choice, and really both sides make such compelling arguments. I could honestly pick either. But Marvel just squeaks in as the better of the two for me and it's mainly because o the comics I grew up reading and the shows I was being entertained by as a kid. Now granted the early 90's batman animated series was just about my favorite show ever but there were also the Saturday morning spiderman/xmen cartoons which occasionally crossed over and that was my first exposure to such a concept.

Both sides have examples of good and bad movies. For every Dark Knight there's a Batman and Robin. For every Spiderman 2 there's a Spiderman 3 and so on.

Recently I got into the Ultimate reboot.

My only real criticism with Marvel though is Ultimate Comics. They rebooted/tweaked the reboot of their ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Ultimate series were the alternative to the complicated 616. Then Ultimate became so complicated they had to re-work IT into Ultimate Comics. At least with DC there's a concentrated effort to keep it all under one banner.

That's true to an extent, but once you get into it you actually learn it's not a reboot of the existing canon from years past. It takes place in a separate dimension and at times the two interact in pretty awesome ways. There was a really interesting Fantastic Four storyline where Reed Richards gets tricked by an alternate version of himself (it's implied this is the original universe or close to it) where all the superbeings have been infected by a virus which turns them into mindless flesh-eating undead and they promptly destroyed their world. Magneto made the ultimate sacrifice to return Reed back home but accidentally allowed the 'zombie' FF through as well. This comes back to haunt them throughout the rest of the run until the Ultimatum crossover which ended the run for each comic.

I've also been reading through some of the newer runs of Daredevil, starting with the short run written by Kevin Smith (of Clerks fame) and that was nothing short of awesome. Each book was a gem and I'll be rereading them soon just to experience it from and a new perspective.

I'm kind of rambling now, so I'll wrap this up. I grew up in a home where there were multiple rooms dedicated to comics and their collection. I'm familiar with alot of the mythology of both company's universes and while it's an extremely close race I will, again, have to stick with Marvel on this one.

[jordan]

All you're doing is expressing your preference for one brand by imagining there's a substantial difference in the way they go about their business. The only tonal differences are between any two given books; you can't compare, say, Batman and Iron Man and say, "Look--noir vs. scifi" because, well, no shit. There's nothing wrong with having a preference. Let's not pretend it's for any other reason than that DC/Marvel has more characters you like or is somewhat more likely to employ a writer you enjoy

Basically true, and something I wouldn't mind this thread being is just people saying what characters or stories from each company they liked best, because it was awesome/smart/fun/whatever.

[jim]

I think most comic book fans would agree that the differences between them both go beyond merely featuring different characters. They've always followed different philosophies with their characters and its hard to imagine most of the big characters from either appearing in the other. They've gotten much closer in recent years than what they used to be, but there is still a clear distinction between them.

[cinco]

The last years, Marvel is stronger in writing team-books. (the whole Avengers-franchise, Astonishing X-men, Warren Ellis' take on Thunderbolts)
But DC is so good in exploring their franchises around a single character/family. Batman and Green Lantern come immediately to mind.
DC also deserves kudos for their current work on the animation- and DTV-front.
"Crisis on Two Earths" was another stunning delivery and with Batman: The Brave and The Bold they proved every biased critic wrong. The concept of the series works surprisingly well and shows us once again the versatility of the Batman-character.

[jordan]

Damn I gotta watch that.

My love for DC comics basically ALL comes from Bruce Timm and growing up with the DC universe. No matter what Marvel does, DC will always come first just because of Timm shows.

[CalculatedChaos]

Okay yeah now I want to see The Brave and the Bold.

[cinco]

Okay yeah now I want to see The Brave and the Bold.

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[CalculatedChaos]

Despite how close he gets, Diedrich Bader is no Kevin Conroy. But that won't stop me from enjoying it anyway. Thanks cinco.