Ren and Stimpy Discussion

[Dr. Strangelove]

Ren and Stimpy is a unique show, not because of the writing, but because of the animation and gags (the first two seasons anyway). The animation on the original Ren and Stimpy Show was constantly improving, but Nickelodeon just had to fire John K. and make Ren and Stimpy somewhere else. What followed was a pathetic attempt to preserve the style of the show that resulted in 3 terrible seasons of cartoonish mediocrity that may have been better than other cartoons of that era, but was still a far-cry from the original Ren and Stimpy. John K. Later got a small taste of revenge with his Adult Party Cartoon version, but that show was also canceled before it had a chance to truly shine. What do you think of the show (all three versions of it)?

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

One of the best shows ever, classic spumco seasons 1 and 2. And the dvdset is still one of my most treasured dvds and i have more than 500 so that's saying something.

My favorite episodes include Fake dad, Stimpy's fan club, Space madness, Nurse stimpy, the big shot, visit to anthony and mad dog hoek, hah.

The other seasons, games episodes were horrible, and Billy West couldn't do Ren's voice half as good as John.K. And the original ren's voice is still one of the greatest cartoon voices of all time.
The new adult party cartoons weren't really up to classic R&S either. Not horrible, but just over the top and unnecessary.

I still sometimes read John.K's blog on the internet, he's a cranky man, but always tells something amusing.

All cartoons look like shit now, Ren and stimpy had some of the best, coolest and most original animation with that little bit of classic WB animation thrown in.

and writing? The writing was tremendous man. Some seriously awesome lines. They all think I'm crazy, but I know better. It is not I who are crazy. It is I who am *mad*! Can't you hear them? Didn't you see the crowd? What do you mean you don't agree with me? Do you know who you're dealing with?
Hey, you shouldn't say mean things like that! Didn't you ever consider that this horse might have feelings? etc

[Matt B.]

I remember this show very well from the days on Nick to the new episodes from Spike TV.
Favorite episodes Fake Dad The Big Shot.

[Gatorgod]

The best thing I like about Ren & Stimpy (and most of John K's work) is the torturous amount of mental anguish that the characters go thru,.. and the viewer has to endure also. This tends to separate his style of humor from others. The more agonizingly drawn out the better.

Sure, Wiley Coyote may suffer physical pummelings, but he heals instantly in time for the next scene, like any good cartoon clown should.
But the bitter, cerebral, emotionally wrought out moments in Kricfalusi's work stays longer in your mind and doesn't heal as fast. John Kricfalusi broke ground in bring new levels of un-comfortableness to cartoon violence.
It takes getting used to and isn't for everybody, but I thank him for it

A few Favorite examples (out of many)
1: Rens prolonged Illness in "Nurse Stimpy"
2: Rens tooth infection
3: Both Ren & Stimpy wait in a dark room in fear, for some kids dad to lecture them about their behavior .."Visit To Anthony"
4: The Ripping Friends: A villain spends WAY to much time forcing his pet cat to say "I love you"
5: The lingering paranoia in "Space Maddness"

[General Jack D. Ripper]

This is one of the shows that I never appreciated when I was a kid (along with Rocko) but later found it its actually pretty acclaimed, so I watched it again and loved it. Good show.

[Tino]

I always used to watch this on Nickelodeon a lot of years back. It was one great show. Weren't there two versions of it, one on Spike and one on Nick?

[Sniper Squirrel]

The first 2 seasons were great, 3 was still pretty good, since it had a lot of Spumco holdovers, Games Animation ruined the show, it just turned goofy and absurd for no apparent reason

[Springfield, Kentucky]

i liked the log song. made me laugh every time.

[Gatorgod]

I like how the Ren & Stimpy show pioneered the use of the detailed "close up" painting shots, from the talented artist Bill Wray, thats now widely copied in cartoons like Sponge Bob, and others that want to draw close attention to gross details.

[General Jack D. Ripper]

Oh yeah, I remember those...I always love them on Spongebob now. It's funny how more realistic or disgusting things look in those shots.

[StarskyMaxwell]

The first 2 seasons were great, 3 was still pretty good, since it had a lot of Spumco holdovers, Games Animation ruined the show, it just turned goofy and absurd for no apparent reason

And then, Spike TV gave complete control back to Spumco, and the show was not only ruined, but destroyed, shattered and raped. Don't EVER watch Adult Party Cartoon, people. EVER.

[Kiyosuki]

Man, John Kricfalusi is quite a cartoon character himself. A few months ago on another place we had this big talk about him and his notoriety (IE: He's known as a pretty notorious dick in animation circles.) but he does know his stuff a lot...even if the idea of different artists having different styles is completely lost on him I think.

I do think people give John a little too much credit for Ren and Stimpy's early greatness though, because if the Ripping Friends are any indication while he's a great animator and does pretty cool designs, he doesn't seem to be able to write too well on his own. I dunno though...when he was um, let go it started to drop too. Maybe it was all sorts of things, Ren and Stimpy just seems destined to be animation's distorted bastard child who had a moment of perfect clarity, but inevitably ended up going insane.

[Gibbles]

Interesting, I have been considering for a while to start a John Kricfalusi related thread about one of his shows or the blog, but in the end decided I'm kind of sick of talking about him. Still it’s cool to read what some of the other fellow No Homers think.

I was never really into Ren and Stimpy as a kid, but about a year or two ago I saw some clips and the animation and gags got me interested enough to pick up the DVD. While I haven’t as of yet really been able to get into the series there is a lot of good stuff in there, but I’m not really that much of a fan of gross out humour, so that’s a bit of a tune out for me.

My favourite pieces of John K’s work at the moment are “A Day In The Life Of Ranger Smith”, and the Tenacious D video “Fuck Her Gently”, both very hilarious all around. Some of his other stuff is a little crazy or too stretched out for me, like I recently saw the other Yogu cartoon he did, Bobo goes wild, and I thought that was a fun idea but didn't have nearly enough meat for the 20 minutes of length.

I used to think John Kricfalusi was a dick, and I still sort of do, but after I got into a long discussion with a person on the IMDB board, it kind of altered my point of view about what John Kricfalusi is about and his thoughts on animation. Now I just read the blog and appreciate that its there and someone with such impressive contributions to the animation world actually cares. But I agree with Kiyosuki people do seem to give John a little too much credit.

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

Stimpy's Fan Club, Fake Dad,A Visit to Anthony, and Space Madness remain as my all-time favourite episodes of the Ren & Stimpy Show

We share the exact same taste in R&S episodes. Those are my favorites as well, like i said earlier. Cool.

I also do sorta agree though that John.K delivered his best work when there were restrictions and certain boundaries, like during the nickelodeon run. Maybe we should all be glad that slick executive types with bad haircuts and ironed ties had a say in and somewhat control over Ren and Stimpy season 1-2. John might have pushed it over the edge without it.

Anyway, i think we have received just the decent amount of R&S classic cartoons. Arguably 32 classics ( S1-2) is more than enough for me! Quality over quantity, not counting the games episodes, they're not john's.

[The Southern Dandy]

No love for the Christmas episode? I used to be obsessed with that one. I would recite parts of it verbatim for friends over and over again, they'd never get tired of hearing them, I'd never get tired of saying them, and we'd always laugh. I can't believe I had so much affection for an episode about a fart. The way the fart's escape was played as tragic was a twisted stroke of genius.

I still have a video with the episodes where Ren and Stimpy dress up as fire dogs and monkeys, and I still watch and enjoy them occasionally. The monkey one gets really gross with all the bug eating, but that's a given with Ren and Stimpy, probably the most hilariously disgusting cartoon ever.

Two of the coolest pieces of merchandise I have are college-themed Ren & Stimply plushes. Stimpy is wearing a graduation gown that has a note saying "Kick Me" taped to his butt and Ren is in a gown that says "Send Money" on the back. The Ren plush got messed up and is in in pretty bad shape, so I bought another Ren wearing a shirt that says "U Eeediot" ("U" as in "University"). The first two are two of the gifts I cherish most from childhood.

[Kiyosuki]

Interesting, I have been considering for a while to start a John Kricfalusi related thread about one of his shows or the blog, but in the end decided I'm kind of sick of talking about him. Still it’s cool to read what some of the other fellow No Homers think.

I was never really into Ren and Stimpy as a kid, but about a year or two ago I saw some clips and the animation and gags got me interested enough to pick up the DVD. While I haven’t as of yet really been able to get into the series there is a lot of good stuff in there, but I’m not really that much of a fan of gross out humour, so that’s a bit of a tune out for me.

My favourite pieces of John K’s work at the moment are “A Day In The Life Of Ranger Smith”, and the Tenacious D video “Fuck Her Gently”, both very hilarious all around. Some of his other stuff is a little crazy or too stretched out for me, like I recently saw the other Yogu cartoon he did, Bobo goes wild, and I thought that was a fun idea but didn't have nearly enough meat for the 20 minutes of length.

I used to think John Kricfalusi was a dick, and I still sort of do, but after I got into a long discussion with a person on the IMDB board, it kind of altered my point of view about what John Kricfalusi is about and his thoughts on animation. Now I just read the blog and appreciate that its there and someone with such impressive contributions to the animation world actually cares. But I agree with Kiyosuki people do seem to give John a little too much credit.

Yeah, some do get maybe a little too hung on the fact he's sort of a bastard, I think unless they're unforgivably bad it shouldn't necessarilly distract from the fact he is pretty good, and he does make a lot of contributions and while I disagree with well, a lot of his personal opinion since I find them kind of like anger induced incoherant rambling most of the time there are some things I do also genuinly agree with.

I'm a little bit reluctant to call him "passionate" because well, there's a fine line between being passionate and being egotistical and the thing with Billy West and some of his commentary push him well into that area (my favorite thing is this young artist on deviantart he particularly likes, and says is way better than most of her generation just happens to draw characters that look almost exactly like his own style. Man John. lol) but you know all that aside one can't critisize that he cares at least.

[StarskyMaxwell]

The guy hates every cartoon that's not his own, Bob Clampett's, or created by some guy who just happens to kiss his ass (Mike Judge, for instance, who he's praised in the same articles where he bashed The Simpsons for "terrible animation"). And if this wasn't enough, his hysterically terrible blog is full of lines like "beat your girlfriend and she'll come back for more". Of COURSE we think he's a complete asshole. He made ONE great show fifteen years ago. Get over it.

[Cartoonnetwork]

I don't know him personally, so I don't want to judge him as a person. I do appreciate some of his comments and sometimes he seems a good guy, though he really seems like an asshole when he says things like the ones Starsky just mentioned. Especially the "beat your girlfriend" thing I guess he's not serious, but anyway, I'm not keen on political correctness and I don't think racial stereotypes in cartoons are that bad, but this "beat your girlfriend" stuff is not really funny to me. I think that, like Kiyokusi said, he's kind of a cartoon character himself and you can't really say whether he's being serious or not.

Of course part of it it's the fan in me speaking and nobody likes to think that one of the guys whose work one really find interesting is really a complete asshole. But anyway, it's also the fact that I don't like to insult people I don't know personally.

Now, about his work. He himself gives too much credit to his own work, but he doesn't completely lack autocritic. Though he usually comments how ugly some of his old drawings were (and they were ok IMO), but he rarely says something about the stories.

Anyway, classic Ren and Stimpy was VERY important and it really started a lot of new trends and his theories about how cartoons should be made make complete sense. Stimpy's Invention, Son of Stimpy, Sven Hoek, Royal Canadian Kilstmen, among others, are all masterpieces.

After that I wouldn't say everything he has done it's worthless. He went more underground, more gross and he kinda lost the balance in this aspect. I'm not a fan of gross humour but I thought the classic R&S used it in the perfect basis. I thought it was the creator's decission, and that he liked subtlety. Apparently I was wrong. I don't have such a big problem with going "adult" and some sex and violence can work for me, but man, some gross humour is really too much disgusting to see. This is not Pink Flamingos, Clampett didn't ever go in such a nasty direction, I don't think that even in his times the stuff he did could be considered as disgusting as Onwards and Upwards, for example.

But John K. did some good stuff before APC. There is some Spumco comic books that are pretty good IMO and they would have been fantastic series if they were animated.

Fuck Her Gently is a sex cartoon that I think it's pretty hilarious cause it really has visual gags and it's not only concentrate on being gross or sexual.

Weekend Pussy Hunt is entertaining because of the odd ideas and the cinema noir-esque touch in it, though it can be a little too odd and not funny enough sometimes.

Goddamn George Liquor flash cartoons were ok, and Xmas Special one was pretty good.

I haven't watched much of the Ripping Friends, but I really don't like it that much. I don't find the concept so original or good and I don't even like the designs.

APC had some good isolated scenes and one episode I consider to be pretty good, Ren Seeks Help. It's more over the top than the classic Ren and Stimpy show, but it has fantastic direction and it's really cool to look at and entertaining.

He has done some nice stuff after that too, Close But No Cigar videoclip for Weird Al was funny, though Weird Al's funny lyrics helped. On the other hand his other Tenacious D video, "Classico", was a complete mess and a little too explicit for my taste.

Those are very short cartoons and they are advertising, but his new clips for Raketu were pretty cute too.

I think he has not lost it completely, his cartoons are a little like him. When he shows some restraint he looks like a sympathetic guy, when he doesn't, he looks like an asshole. Actually Ren seems to be a lot like him. While watching APC, in which Ren sometimes acts like a complete asshole and it's not really likeable anymore, I kinda feel like I was reading John K's rants in his blog. But when I found an isolated clip or scene funny or cute I felt symphaty for the characters and the guy who had created them.

So if he shows some restraint and maybe if he does more kid cartoons I think he could still do interesting things in the future. Well, I think everything he does is interesting, at least visually, even if it is a failure.

His comments on animation...I have already talked a lot, so I'll only say that he has a lot of good theories, but some very bad examples, and he's too harsh with things that are really pretty good. Instead of saying "this could be better" he just goes "this sucks". That's unfair, especially when there are modern things that are clearly better than others and he doesn't give them any credit for that.

[Kiyosuki]

I think that, like Kiyokusi said, he's kind of a cartoon character himself and you can't really say whether he's being serious or not.

Mmmm no I gotta stop you right there CN. He's dead serious. I'm not kidding. When I say he's a cartoon character, its saying that he's just an amusing fellow, because of all that. But he is seriously a dick, there are no shenanigans there. At least as far as others are concerned, you can't touch the animation scene at all without hearing at least one story of John's notorious attitude.

Now I'm sure he has many redeeming qualities as a human being, I don't know him personally so I can't pass grand judgement here and I still do try to not judge his work based off of that, but still I can't help but think sometimes there's a reason why he doesn't do a whole lot.

I believe he got out of animation as a business alltogether though, it just wasn't working out for him on a personal level. I can kinda understand that, its a harsh place right now. But still what goes around comes around in this world. Thats a golden rule. That was some time ago though, I don't know if he followed through or not. I don't read his blog a lot.

[Cartoonnetwork]

Mmmm no I gotta stop you right there CN. He's dead serious. I'm not kidding.

Well, I meant especially with that kind of "beat your girlfriend" stuff. I hope he's not being serious with that.

About the other things, it's not really that important to me, it's just opinion. Even if it's unfair or harsh sometimes, people do really overreact too much sometimes. Now, if he has really done bad things to people who were his friends because of his opinions, then he is possibly a dick. But I don't really know if that has happened and I don't believe most of the things people write about him or even his own version that also seems somewhat exaggerated or fake sometimes.

[Gibbles]

Now I'm sure he has many redeeming qualities as a human being, I don't know him personally so I can't pass grand judgement here and I still do try to not judge his work based off of that, but still I can't help but think sometimes there's a reason why he doesn't do a whole lot.

Yeah that is something I have thought heavily about as well. I've read other artist say, that it isn't right that he isn't more of a success with more resources, but considering his talent, reputation and enthusiasm for the subject matter there has to be some reason why he isn't as involved and as successful as he could be.

I agree with him that there should be generally more (of what he considers to be) artistically animated animations out there, but his need to dismiss and put down everything else that doesn't follow that method, or simply does a different type of what could and is considered art, is very uncalled for and unnecessary to put that point across.

From what I gather he is working on smaller projects now. People hire him because he created Ren and Stimpy, so that seems to get him a fair amount of work, although I can't imagin its anything like what he should be getting at this point. There was an Interesting Interview a month or so back if your interested.

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

The most airheaded thing about him is that practically doesn't like anything past the 60s, be it movie, music, or cartoon. There's something about taking such a radical stance that's just not right. And he probably knows there's more than enough good stuff produced after the 60s.

Also, the fact that he's somewhat a dick doesn't change my opinion on Ren and Stimpy at all. To be honest, I'd rather have a grumpy, old dick at the helm than a contstantly, shall i say 'happy happy joy joy' kind of person. I don't want my favorite artists to be happy, i want them to hate everything about this goddamn world.

Anyway...i am thinking of buying the adult party cartoon on dvd, even though I don't like it half as much as S1-2, i'm just really curious about the extras, commentary and some of the crazy drawings. What do you think?

edit: ok, so i just bought it. delicious packaging. hope i'm gonna enjoy it. i haven't seen like 4 or 5 of the six episodes (only a few fragments). i'll let y'all know what i think of it later!

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

Jeez, Ren seeks help was a fuckin' terific episode. The others probably won't match up to it, huh.

[Cartoonnetwork]

Yeah, Major, the others won't match up to it. It's clearly the best one.

Altruists has some good pieces. For what is worth I kinda enjoy Naked Beach Frenzy too, though it's very different to the old style.

I find Onward and Upward very disgusting. I like Ren and Stimpy's behaviour in Firedogs 2 part 2, but some parts with the Ralph Bakshi character are extremely disgusting.

Stimpy's pregnant looks like a poor remake of Son of Stimpy IMO.

That's what I thought at least. I'm interested in your opinion, it could be different.

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

Okay, cartoon.

Aside from Ren seeks help, I've now seen Firedogs 2, and Naked Beach Frenzy and I've got to say there is a hell of a lot to love, but also a few things are less endearing. Things like swearing just for the heck of it (it has a bigger impact when it's done in a more profound way, however that might be done), fart and vomit jokes (some is good, some is bad) and the ocassionaly distressing acting and change Stimpy's character has gone through...

BUT, damnit, these cartoons are funny. There might be a few bad scenes, but it's worth sitting through for all those oustanding scenes. For eg: that scene with the Fire chief Raph Bashki and Ren and Stimpy sitting round a table in a restaurant. The dialogue and the situation here is completely insane and funny. Same goes for Naked beach frenzy. Definately enough scenes to win you over, but also a few bad ones. Love the hairy david hasselhof guy calling Ren a sandcrab, ren drowning himself so he can get cpr'ed by some hot chicks, Ren's snooty, fake face when he washes the girl with soap etc...like i said, there's some truly magical stuff here, and some awesome drawings, even though the thick, black lines in certain scenes bother me sometimes.

However, these episodes could have done with some better editing and control. They should have made them more wholesome, take out a few unnecessary jokes and whatnot. And I'm still not sure if I like Stimpy's new voice half as much as his original one, hah. But I can live with it.

So it's definately not in the same leauge with classic R&S. I don't think it tries to be. Its style is very different, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. You need to have a different mindset when you watch these episodes I think, otherwise you won"t give them a fair chance or enjoy them as much you could.

[Cartoonnetwork]

The problem I have with Stimpy's character here is that he almost always acts like a woman. He kinda does it in the old show sometimes, but I find it less funny when it's constant. He has some good moments in Altruists, especially. I know it's a different show, but I kinda wish the characters acted a little more like their own selves. Ren is also a little less likeable cause he seemed more weak in the old episodes and that kinda inspired some pity in the audience. So it's not so much the themes or the gags, but the fact that I think the characters are a little more rude and well, I would say they are less complex too. Except in Ren Seeks Help, in which Ren is kinda more dangerous and rude than his usual self, but it's done with enough complexity and intensity in his actions.

I more or less agree with your general statements. Like I said I don't mind sex and violence so much because it's "adult" but yeah, some of the swearing and some of the gross scenes are pretty cheap/disgusting.

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

Hmm, yeah, but who knows, maybe if John.K and his team were allowed to make more episodes they could have fixed some of these problems, learned a little from their errors and the overall viewers' critique (probably not though, seeing as their egos are so big). I read there were a bunch of more lost R&S stimpy episodes. Perhaps we'll see them animated in the near future, but i wouldn't count on it, i have a feeling R&S fandom is at a pretty low point right now. And I don't think new folk will be easily attracted to the show.

It's a shame, but like i said 32 classic cartoons is more than enough for me. Might as well add Ren seeks help to that and a few, creative moments from the other adult party cartoons.

I might watch the other adult party cartoons later tonight, but it's already 11 pm here, and i'm feeling a little too tired for more R&S mayhem. These are harder to watch than the more innocent R&S , hah, that's for sure.

edit: I agree with your opinion about them not acting like true ren and stimpy, kind of. I must say though, i felt they acted like their true selfs in firedogs 2, well more like re-acted, as they didn't say much and re-acted more to the fire chief's actions. And tbh, i really don't like that Ren and stimpy behave so gay. The implied homosexuality in the classic episodes was much funnier and less offensive.

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

Ok, i almost forgot. Now having seen all the adult party cartoons on dvd i'll rank them in order, from favorite to worst:

Ren seeks help (by a long shot)> Firedogs 2> Onward and upward (loved the drawings)> Stimpy's pregnant> Naked beach frenzy< Altruists ( didn't like it at all, don't understand why everyone likes this one so much).

I also noticed that three of the six episodes have horrible, almost off putting, digital coloring. The animation in these episodes is still great, but the coloring hurts the eye man. The other episodes might be digitally colored too, but i didn't find the colors so ugly there.

The three episodes where i hated the digital colors were: Altruists, Naked beach frenzy and stimpy's pregnant.

All in all a so-so outing.

[Cartoonnetwork]

I agree with the digital colors thing and the black lines.

Well, Altruists has terrible pacing, but I think it has the most surreal gags and I for one really liked the guy without a head character for example, and his voice. I liked Stimpy acting like an italian. I liked the "priceless" gag. I thought the chick was pretty sexy. I liked the comeback of the weird old man (don't remember how is called). I liked the duck beaks gag and the kids that got knocked by Ren and Stimpy. I loved the backgrounds.

In Onward and Upward I love the concept of Ren and Stimpy living inside the hobo , but almost everything else I thought it was very disgusting to watch. Also I don't like the drawing style there that much.

I'll order them like this: Ren Seeks help>Naked Beach Frenzy>Altruists> Firedogs 2>Stimpy's Pregnant>Onward and Upward

I'll add that some of the animation especially in the digital-colored ones you mention I don't find it that good for kricfalusi's standards. One clear example is when the blonde girl with the big boobs in NBF tries to catch the ball and she turns in a very flat, flash-like animation way. Maybe they thought it was funny to include this movement on purpose or something but I found it weird when John K. is criticizing formulaic animation like that and because it didn't really fit with the tridimensional look of the characters in the rest of scenes.

[Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland]

In Onward and Upward I love the concept of Ren and Stimpy living inside the hobo , but almost everything else I thought it was very disgusting to watch. Also I don't like the drawing style there that much.

Didn't you like the Ren transformation gag? With ren suddenly turning into a hot stud, real life man (probably rock hudson i think) in the bedroom? Hah, it caught me off guard, the drawing was great and it definately made me laugh.
What about the diner scene inside their new home, the spitting pot? Sure, it was mostly based on a gross joke, but there were some great animated poses with both ren and stimpy acting like upper class snooties. Not a super episode by all means, but it delivers some good material.

Well, Altruists has terrible pacing, but I think it has the most surreal gags and I for one really liked the guy without a head character for example, and his voice. I liked Stimpy acting like an italian. I liked the "priceless" gag. I thought the chick was pretty sexy. I liked the comeback of the weird old man (don't remember how is called). I liked the duck beaks gag and the kids that got knocked by Ren and Stimpy. I loved the backgrounds.

Yes. Godawful pacing. Yeah, what you liked i didn't like so much. I didn't enjoy stimpy acting as an italian (his voice bothered me so much here, heh), the guy withoud a head, the priceless gag was ok, the duck was ok...i just don't know, the episode didn't do it for me.

I think i'm all R&S discussioned out about now. I don't have anything left to say at this point, but the fact that i still love the original R&S seasons 1 and 2 and i moderately enjoyed the adult ones and quite frankly really disliked (not hated) the game episodes.

Was nice hearing your opinion on the matter too, cartoonnetwork. OH BOY MAYHEM!