Rate/Review: Kill the Alligator and Run

[qwertyuio]

-Homer saying that he won't live to see his children die
-Homer with the baby doll
-The changing of the hotel sign from Fart to Frat
-Marge saying that Captain Jack can crawl up through her toilet any day.
-Homer saying that he saw 15 boobs.
-The sheriff saying that he's a hardass, but being nice to Maggie
-The screw-the-audience gag with the keys
-Lisa: Dad, you can't drive, he's got your liscence.
Homer: I'm going to try anyway. It worked!
-The "no shade excuse"
-The family sleeping while the train is pushing their car and Homer going to the snack cart.
-The "I like that" lady
-The gag about Bart and Lisa getting married.
-Homer saying that the sheriff better have them in jail by supper
-The ice electric chair
-Arazona and North Dakota being the only states their allowed to go to
-Bart wanting to see Mt. Rushmore, but it's in South Dakota

Wow. The best ones from this list were meh-ish, the worst ones were just horrid (baby doll ).

Although this episode has gags, a minimal part of them work. Not only it's so one-sided in its jokes, they have also a ratio of at least nine failed scenes per every ten ones.

[Spider Pig1]

gave it a B-its a decent episode imo

[D'ohmer]

I've thought of another great gag (IMO). It's where Homer is trying to knock the lady out with the pan.

[dapper dan]

I'm with D'ohmer on this one. It's got plenty of good humour in it. I especially like the line: Bart, "Dad, you'll kill us all!" Homer, "Or die trying!"

[The Governor]

I think due to random, WTF? humor being more prevelent these days, episodes like "Kill" don't seem quite so bad, but for a lot of fans who watched it the night it came out, it's still a comedic kick to the balls.

[Capt Hammer]

-Homer saying that he won't live to see his children die

That's Jerkass Homer, it's not funny at all.

-Homer with the baby doll

Don't get me started

-The changing of the hotel sign from Fart to Frat

Not that good.

-Homer saying that he saw 15 boobs.
-Lisa: Dad, you can't drive, he's got your liscence.
Homer: I'm going to try anyway. It worked!

Those jokes are good.

-The family sleeping while the train is pushing their car and Homer going to the snack cart.

-Bart wanting to see Mt. Rushmore, but it's in South Dakota

That's funny?

-The "I like that" lady

Get's Old...Fast!

-The gag about Bart and Lisa getting married.

That's Horrible

[D'ohmer]

I'm with D'ohmer on this one. It's got plenty of good humour in it. I especially like the line: Bart, "Dad, you'll kill us all!" Homer, "Or die trying!"

Oh, I forgot about that one.

[zitro]

I think it's a tad underrated since it had its number of gags. It's probably funnier than the ireland episode from March.

Still, 2.5 is the most I would give if I were generous. So, something like C- or D+

[Jacob]

-The gag about Bart and Lisa getting married.

I think I threw up a little the first time I heard that

[The Governor]

I think I threw up a little the first time I heard that

Incest is funny and fresh south of the Indiana state line. That's why the defintion of a Southern Female Virgin is a "Girl who can outrun her brothers."




Just kidding.

[Tamaki Suoh]

A few people have said they wanted a review from me on this one now that I've seen it for the first time in nine years, so here it is:

I have no idea why people consider it the worst episode ever. It's not great by any means, but there are several "classic" era episodes way worse than this one, and yet this usually gets an ecumenical F? Not sure why. Yeah, it's wacky. Yeah, it has no structure whatsoever. Yeah, the characterizations are wildly inaccurate. But the humor isn't awful (while some were unnecessary/stupid, other jokes worked), the story--however disjointed--is unique and puts the family in a fairly funny, new, dire situation, and it overall comes across a weird, wild adventure that succeeds in being a decently-entertaining half hour of television.

I don't see the point in overanalyzing things like characterization and plot here really; I don't think it was intended to be a deep character study or even the slightest bit plot-driven. I think the point is kind of that it is "just a bunch of stuff that happens", regardless of anything else, and while some of the stuff that happens isn't particularly good, most of it is decent enough. A C/C- is my tentative grade.

[lionelhutz123]

I respect your opinion, but just out of curiosity, what classic era episodes do you consider worse than this?

[regismo]

As some episodes that you like are not appreciated in France ...

I know, to drag french forums often, it is quite popular in France (Yes you don't care, so what ? ) And I am among those who truly appreciate. A-

[qwertyuio]

A few people have said they wanted a review from me on this one now that I've seen it for the first time in nine years, so here it is:

I have no idea why people consider it the worst episode ever. It's not great by any means, but there are several "classic" era episodes way worse than this one, and yet this usually gets an ecumenical F? Not sure why. Yeah, it's wacky. Yeah, it has no structure whatsoever. Yeah, the characterizations are wildly inaccurate. But the humor isn't awful (while some were unnecessary/stupid, other jokes worked), the story--however disjointed--is unique and puts the family in a fairly funny, new, dire situation, and it overall comes across a weird, wild adventure that succeeds in being a decently-entertaining half hour of television.

I don't see the point in overanalyzing things like characterization and plot here really; I don't think it was intended to be a deep character study or even the slightest bit plot-driven. I think the point is kind of that it is "just a bunch of stuff that happens", regardless of anything else, and while some of the stuff that happens isn't particularly good, most of it is decent enough. A C/C- is my tentative grade.

I admit you had a good point at saying that characterizations and plot development are not really the strongest values of this episode, and that the credibility could be deliberately damaged to make a simple series of hilarious gags. Something like Thirty Minutes Over Tokyo.

But the fact that ruins this episode is that, after renouncing logic and focusing its strength on the humor, it was actually boring. It is obviously a subjective matter, but the jokes were mostly ineffective and sometimes they failed completely. I found them pretty different from the simpsonish humorous style, and that is probably a determining factor. While I could find funny Homer when he said that he would kill her family or die trying, I should put it out of context to laugh at it. The same thing happens with the incest joke or Homer's paranoia, and it's the basis of my dislike towards other episodes like Missionary: Impossible, Simpson Safari or Tennis The Menace.

[Tamaki Suoh]

I respect your opinion, but just out of curiosity, what classic era episodes do you consider worse than this?

Ones that are either equal or worse for me:

Call of the Simpsons
Krusty Gets Busted
Some Enchanted Evening
Three Men and a Comic Book
Like Father, Like Clown
Flaming Moe's
Bart the Lover
The Otto Show
Kamp Krusty
A Streetcar Named Marge
Homer the Heretic
Lisa's First Word
Marge vs. the Monorail
Selma's Choice
I Love Lisa
Duffless
The Front
Krusty Gets Kancelled
Cape Feare
Homer Goes To College
Homer the Vigilante
Homer and Apu
Sweet Seymour Skinner's Badassss Song
Itchy and Scratchy Land
Bart's Girlfriend
Lisa On Ice
Homer: Badman
Fear Of Flying
Bart vs Australia
Bart Sells His Soul
Two Bad Neighbors
Bart the Fink
Lisa the Iconoclast
The Day Violence Died
22 Short Films About Springfield
You Only Move Twice
The Twisted World of Marge Simpson
The Itchy and Scratchy and Pootchie Show
Homer's Phobia
My Sister, My Sitter
The Old Man and the Lisa
Homer's Enemy
Lisa's Sax
Realty Bites
All Singing, All Dancing
Bart Carny
Lisa the Simpson
This Little Wiggy
The Trouble With Trillions
Girly Edition
Trash of the Titans
Natural Born Kissers

I admit you had a good point at saying that characterizations and plot development are not really the strongest values of this episode, and that the credibility could be deliberately damaged to make a simple series of hilarious gags. Something like Thirty Minutes Over Tokyo.

But the fact that ruins this episode is that, after renouncing logic and focusing its strength on the humor, it was actually boring. It is obviously a subjective matter, but the jokes were mostly ineffective and sometimes they failed completely. I found them pretty different from the simpsonish humorous style, and that is probably a determining factor. While I could find funny Homer when he said that he would kill her family or die trying, I should put it out of context to laugh at it. The same thing happens with the incest joke or Homer's paranoia, and it's the basis of my dislike towards other episodes like Missionary: Impossible, Simpson Safari or Tennis The Menace.

Yeah, I agree that it really wasn't very funny, but I didn't think it was terribly unfunny either. It was just mediocre all around for me.

[Cartoonnetwork]

Sorry, Robin, I'd like to respect your opinion but...but...there is a lot of classic episodes on that list. How can you don't love Duffless, Homer The Heretic, Bart's Girlfriend, FLAMING MOE'S?

If all those are C or C- for you it seems to me that half of the series classics is average or mediocre in your list.

Incidentally I don't hate KTAAR as much as many others, but still there are a lot of excellent episodes in your list and I can only see why you could have issues with some of them (like Homer Goes To College, which is a little dumb, but it's still pretty funny, or Homer's Enemy, which is IMO an excellent episode, even though I agree with some of your criticisms about it).

[sung]

Sorry, Robin, I'd like to respect your opinion but...but...there is a lot of classic episodes on that list. How can you don't love Duffless, Homer The Heretic, Bart's Girlfriend, FLAMING MOE'S?

i'd also like to say that, if we are to argue over these episodes, we wouldn't do it in this thread

[Tamaki Suoh]

Sorry, Robin, I'd like to respect your opinion but...but...there is a lot of classic episodes on that list. How can you don't love Duffless, Homer The Heretic, Bart's Girlfriend, FLAMING MOE'S?

If all those are C or C- for you it seems to me that half of the series classics is average or mediocre in your list.

Actually, "Duffless", "Heretic", and "Moe's" are all F's for me. "Girlfriend" is probably a C/C- like "KTAAR". And yeah, I consider the classic era to be about equally good and bad, so...

i'd also like to say that, if we are to argue over these episodes, we wouldn't do it in this thread

Yeah, that's true. I don't really feel like arguing about them anyway, but I just wanted to answer lionelhutz' question.

[dapper dan]

While I don't agree with Ms. Hood on some of those episodes (and certainly not wishing to continue the argument), it's refreshing to find there's at least someone on this board whose reviews don't simply consist of "classic"= good, "post-classic" = bad.

[qwertyuio]

I respect your opinion, Robin Hood, while I disagree strongly with your reviews (and presumably with your criterion in general).

But what I sometimes miss is a debatable explanation of those grades. Don't misinterpret me, I am not saying they are unfair or something worse, but because of the strong disagree with the general view regarding episodes like Flaming Moe's, Duffless, 22 Short Films About Springfield, A Streetcar Named Marge or Cape Feare, it would be great to make discussions about them based on your reviews. And what I have read so far from you about these episodes is irrefutable from the point of view of a fertile discussion, because it is too subjective and personal. And your reviews seem to be so unrelated each other that I find it difficult to see a clear tendency at your grading method that is repeated through out the series. Maybe I'm too much demanding and disrespectful at pointing this but it's how I view it. I don't want to sound rude, but it gives me an impression of randomness at your reviews.

PS: I assume you will find me jerk and even idiotic at this post, so I hope nothing serious comes of it if I dedicate you an awfully-delayed Happy Birthday . And sorry guys for Off Topic-ing.

[Cartoonnetwork]

Yeah, I also find it interesting to read some criticisms of classic era episodes, but I think some of those are among the very best of the series. I have my own issues with certain classic era episodes like Hurricane Neddy, A Star Is Burns or Around Springfield...though I'd still give them pretty good grades, I just think those are no better than a lot of recent episodes. I will try to look at Robin's opinion in the episodes Rate and review threads, just out of curiosity.

[Simpsonatic83]

I liked this episode quite alot actually so I gave it an A

[WBadger]

:gasp:

[Tamaki Suoh]

I respect your opinion, Robin Hood, while I disagree strongly with your reviews (and presumably with your criterion in general).

But what I sometimes miss is a debatable explanation of those grades. Don't misinterpret me, I am not saying they are unfair or something worse, but because of the strong disagree with the general view regarding episodes like Flaming Moe's, Duffless, 22 Short Films About Springfield, A Streetcar Named Marge or Cape Feare, it would be great to make discussions about them based on your reviews. And what I have read so far from you about these episodes is irrefutable from the point of view of a fertile discussion, because it is too subjective and personal.

Actually, for most of these episodes I have given long, reason-based reviews, sometimes even debating other members about them. In fact, I explained and debated my views so many times that I got burnt out after a while, and by this point, I don't really care enough about the show (though I do still like it) to spend a lot of time explaining/debating my opinions on it. But you can probably find most of my old reviews/debates in either the episode's R&R threads, in "Rating Episodes Daily", or even in other threads sometimes.

And your reviews seem to be so unrelated each other that I find it difficult to see a clear tendency at your grading method that is repeated through out the series. Maybe I'm too much demanding and disrespectful at pointing this but it's how I view it. I don't want to sound rude, but it gives me an impression of randomness at your reviews.

I don't know...I could say, for instance, you love "138th Spectacular" and "Vegetarian" (both of which I consider to be great episodes) yet you also love "Flaming Moe's", "Lisa's First Word", et cetera (that I consider terrible), so your opinions could seem random to me. But I see where you're coming from. The episodes I love all have different reasons behind them; sometimes I love an episode for its humor, sometimes for its emotion, sometimes for its characterization, sometimes for its plot, et cetera. There are always individual reasons for why I love a certain episode, so yeah, I would agree that I don't have one stringent standard for grading/liking episodes or any by-the-book grading method.

PS: I assume you will find me jerk and even idiotic at this post, so I hope nothing serious comes of it if I dedicate you an awfully-delayed Happy Birthday . And sorry guys for Off Topic-ing.

Thanks!

[Cartoonnetwork]

But still...there has to be some kind of rule...I mean, I like these series because of their characters and that's mainly the reason why I like most series. And I can't think of an episode with a better depiction of Simpsons family than Duffless, for example. Also the jokes are for the most part of high quality. I read that you think this episode is nothing special and in a way, one could see it like that, cause the plot is about aspects of the characters that are present in many episodes, like Homer's alcoholism. I could understand that maybe someone don't consider this one as the perfect classic episode, but at least it should be a B or something, cause if you like the characters, there is a perfect description of them there. Yeah, there are a lot of examples of that in classic era, but there are also episodes that are not so perfect in that department and are stronger in others (like Homer's Enemy, in which I sort of agree with your view about characterizations in this episode though I think the concept of the episode was brilliant enough to forgive that).

Don't take the examples of the episodes, it's just a way of telling that there has to be certain "rules" or things that a person always like about the series and when there's some of that in one episode I think it just deserves some credit for it, and if there's a lot of that then it deserves more credit.

[TheForbiddenDonut]

There is nothing wrong with purely subjective grading, but as I come to appreciate the objective principles of story and characterization (and yes, they do exist), I find it hard to enjoy something that strays from those principles, as those rules are the basis for art and entertainment, qualities which in a show like classic Simpsons seem to be very closely linked. When an episode like KTAAR provides interchangeable characterizations, not necessarily degradations of traditional characterization but one-note robots, to whom the absurd developments of the story mean little to nothing, then there is no inherent drama to what is being told, no reason to watch outside of jokes, which, given there is no character or dramatic basis for them, become restrictive regardless of their potential for humor (something I don't even think exists in this episode). Even if episodes like Flaming Moe's or Homer the Heretic invoked no laughter whatsoever (and to say there is none is to be completely severed from the sense of humor of just about anyone), they still have structure and plot and characterization. Even if terribly executed, which they aren't, they still make the episode a more complete work of art than an episode that does not have them, and therefore I believe that objectively they maintain superiority over episodes like these.

[Tamaki Suoh]

@Cartoonnetwork: Well, sure, but if only one aspect of an episode is good, it doesn't make the entire episode good. I know you said not to take those specific examples of episodes, but for the sake of argument: let's say "Duffless" did portray Homer and Marge well. I can give it that. I don't think their characterizations were anything spectacular, but they were fine at least. However, the lack of good humor and the emotionally-hollow and -manipulative qualities of the plot are much more prominent to me than the only decent characterization, so I don't like the episode.

there are also episodes that are not so perfect in that department and are stronger in others

Yeah, but the episodes I give F's are ones that I either feel have no strength in any department or have perhaps some strength in one department but are so bad in every other department (or even one department) that the few decent qualities of the episode don't redeem it for me. For example, "Rosebud"...it's probably a C/C- episode for me. It's entertaining, parodies are good, characters have good moments...but the emotional aspect of the episode (which the entire plot is built around!) is so manipulative, nonsensical, and sigh-inducing that the whole episode is brought way down by it. Seeing as I think Homer is being completely stupid and even selfish in his decision to let Maggie keep the bear (1.) she's one-years-old; she'll move onto another toy in the blink of an eye 2.) he could buy her another bear and she wouldn't know the difference, like I said, she's only one-years-old for crying out loud 3.) he could buy her so many things she actually wants and things she needs for her future, for her REAL happiness if he took Burns' money), I can't feel sorry for/admiring of Homer at all, which kind of ruins what the episode is going for.

But yeah, like I said...not in the mood for a debate (really don't have time), but I just wanted to explain where I'm coming from on my grading.

[hughes]

I admit that only one thing in a Simpsons episode is important to me--I want it to make me laugh. Everything else is secondary. Of course in very rare exceptions ("Lisa's Substitute") emotion can completely take over and the episode can still be fantastic, but personally if I find an episode funny I just can't give it less than a B, even if it has other issues

I know I'm persisting in taking this way off-topic, so sorry, this just seemed like a good time to explain why I'm such an inordinately high-grade reviewer

[qwertyuio]

Actually, for most of these episodes I have given long, reason-based reviews, sometimes even debating other members about them. In fact, I explained and debated my views so many times that I got burnt out after a while, and by this point, I don't really care enough about the show (though I do still like it) to spend a lot of time explaining/debating my opinions on it. But you can probably find most of my old reviews/debates in either the episode's R&R threads, in "Rating Episodes Daily", or even in other threads sometimes.

Yes, I know. But there are always some threads that could be turned into really interesting debates. I don't know why I said it in that way, because it's not that you don't explain the grades. You actually do it always, but what I tried to point is the great chance for reflection that a conflicting opinion as yours gives so many times, and the fact that it is not well-spent at all.

I don't know...I could say, for instance, you love "138th Spectacular" and "Vegetarian" (both of which I consider to be great episodes) yet you also love "Flaming Moe's", "Lisa's First Word", et cetera (that I consider terrible), so your opinions could seem random to me. But I see where you're coming from. The episodes I love all have different reasons behind them; sometimes I love an episode for its humor, sometimes for its emotion, sometimes for its characterization, sometimes for its plot, et cetera. There are always individual reasons for why I love a certain episode, so yeah, I would agree that I don't have one stringent standard for grading/liking episodes or any by-the-book grading method.

I try to follow a basic criterion, emphasizing characterizations and storyline, but it's inevitable to find some episodes that I love for reasons that don't fit my general opinion, and they could be so subjective or illogical that explaining them would be too much difficult. It's obvious that you will find some randomness at my grades, as I find it at yours, but what must be established (and I didn't clarify it well on my previous post) is that it is a personal opinion. Anyway, I think it's more a problem of disagreement than bad explanation. For example, I don't see why an episode being emotionally manipulative is a fault at its own, but it seems to bother you in a way that I don't understand, in the same way you can't understand why I look sometimes so obsessed with the characters' attitudes.

[TheForbiddenDonut]

Every single emotional episode of The Simpsons is emotionally manipulative. Hell, every dramatic story ever told in the history of mankind is emotionally manipulative. I know what is meant when people use the term in regard to Simpsons episodes, which is basically the lack of subtlety to the extent that one becomes aware of the writer's hand in the turn of events that create the basis for emotional connection. And yet, I feel that any great episode of the series creates that awareness if one watches analytically enough. Therefore, I think the true problem with poor emotional episodes is when the feelings of the characters are artificial and unnatural, forced for the sake of invoking an emotional response in the viewer. Even if episodes like Duffless and Streetcar are basic and follow a pattern, the characters' behavior still arises naturally from the situation. Personally, I find Lisa the Vegetarian to be far more insulting.