The General Discussion Lounge

[General Jack D. Ripper]

I actually feel that Jean was a very good showrunner, but just went on too long. Season 16 pales in comparison to its predecessor, but it was still a generally consistent season with several very good episodes. In seasons 17 and 18, Jean really lost it. Despite what other members say, I think that 18 was a considerable improvement over 17. Its lows were just as low, but its highs higher and more frequent. I still consider no seasons of Jean's worse than season 11, but 17 comes close. Jean started out with a fresh change with season 13, which was an inconsistent season, but with many great episodes, putting it at my second favorite Jean season. 14 was much of the same as 13, but IMO, not as many greats in there making it my third favorite Jean season. 15 was my definite favorite Jean season, because, it was consistent with the greats of the previous two seasons, and it had plenty of memorable episodes, some even emotional. I already went into detail on my opinions for seasons 16-18 so I'll stop this rambling post now.

[Lisa Is A Nut]

^ Agreed. he's been showrunner since the season one DVD came out. That's (one, two...) Six years. He should just quit while he's......losing

[Postmaster]

It's weird season 16 had such a strong run of form at the end, that it made me very optimistic, but that was soon crushed, by the appaling run of holdovers, that fit much closer in style to the rest of s17 than the average s16 episode.

[arii]

Exactly the reason I'm starting to get a little bit uneasy about season 19 now. Season 18 did finally start to pick up and hit a good run, topping it off with 24 Minutes (then sadly there was the 400th episode...), but seeing what happened before, season 19 could just as easily spiral down and become even worse.

I actually consider season 18 the worst season to date, with season 17 above it, and then season 11. I think season 17 did greater episodes than season 18, which only had three that I actually really, really liked.

Naturally agreed that Jean should step down, or at the very least, get a freaking partner.

[FueledByParamore]

why does alot of times instead of calling him dad he calls him Homer?

[Ryou]

Possibly because Bart shows a high disrespect for his father. Bart obviously does love his father, but there is a difference between love and respect. Although sometimes Bart does look up to his father (often when Homer is setting a bad example), he might be a bit embarassed by the idiotic antics and selfishness Homer shows. Then again, Bart shows disregard for many authority figures. The instances of Bart calling his dad "Homer" is just one of his many "badboy" quirks.

[banana plantation]

^what he said

[Dental Plan!]

Consult 'Lisa's First Word' for the origin of this.

[FueledByParamore]

i saw that episode

[grissom]

So have the rest of us. Don't post unless you've got something constructive to add to the conversation.

Speaking of Lisa's First Word though, does anybody else think all the flashback episodes like that would make a good one of those compilation sets? Seems like a logical choice. I'd be more to buy that than a group of pretty much totally random episodes.

[SuperNintendoChalmers]

probably the one in last exit to springfield, or when he gets hit by the chair in the bathtub by bart in a milhouse divided.

[Kiyosuki]

Exactly the reason I'm starting to get a little bit uneasy about season 19 now. Season 18 did finally start to pick up and hit a good run, topping it off with 24 Minutes (then sadly there was the 400th episode...), but seeing what happened before, season 19 could just as easily spiral down and become even worse.

I actually consider season 18 the worst season to date, with season 17 above it, and then season 11. I think season 17 did greater episodes than season 18, which only had three that I actually really, really liked.

Naturally agreed that Jean should step down, or at the very least, get a freaking partner.

At this point I'm pretty much eternally on the fence on where the series goes. Like I know it'll probably never be quite was it used to be and in all respects, will never be exactly like it used to be (which is an understandable thing) but if it can be possibly good or get better as what it is now then that'll be a cool surprise.

So I'm still kind of curious if the film is going to have some sort of effect on the series. Not directly per say, but more indirectly. I do still think the latter part of 18, aside from that Kent Brockman episode which was just a drag, was kind of trying at least to go in a different direction slightly.

I can definitely see what you guys mean by 16 and up feeling different than 13-15. Its tough to say why exactly but I always felt that way. Maybe it got more topical?

Possibly because Bart shows a high disrespect for his father. Bart obviously does love his father, but there is a difference between love and respect. Although sometimes Bart does look up to his father (often when Homer is setting a bad example), he might be a bit embarassed by the idiotic antics and selfishness Homer shows. Then again, Bart shows disregard for many authority figures. The instances of Bart calling his dad "Homer" is just one of his many "badboy" quirks.

Thats pretty much it.He loves him deep down but he doesn't respect him. One way I like to think of it is Bart's just a little more "aware" of things than Homer is. In the movie he sort of acknowledged how stupid he was pretty fast where as it took Homer like, the movie to realize that. Something kind of interesting to think about is completely ignoring that Simpson gene thing (something the series kind of lets us do often.) Bart is actually really sharp and has a lot more potential than he gives himself credit for but he holds himself back for all sorts of reasons. He wants to fit in, TV, lack of encouragement from his dad etc whatever.

If you think about it though, its been hinted that Homer was kind of the same way himself. He even says something about that neverending cycle before Marge politely reminds him that they're holding a bomb.

[luben]

Something kind of interesting to think about is completely ignoring that Simpson gene thing (something the series kind of lets us do often.)

Yeah, I think that 'HOMR' pretty much meant that the 'Simpson gene' thing wasn't to take seriously. I mean that HOMR completely wrote off the simpson gene thing.

If you think about it though, its been hinted that Homer was kind of the same way himself. He even says something about that neverending cycle before Marge politely reminds him that they're holding a bomb.

That's interesting. Can you expand this thought?

[Kiyosuki]

That's interesting. Can you expand this thought?

I can't remember them all off hand but haven't there been a number of flashbacks where Abe put Homer down as a good for nothing even when showing talent in something?

[arii]

On showrunners: It's just, it's getting stale and annoying now. Look at all of the marriage crisis plots in season 17. Getting someone else's take on the direction the show should go in would probably do it some good, and at the very least, liven it up.

On the Simpson gene and related topics: There have been a bunch of flashbacks with Abe just mistreating Homer in some way (like giving him Nyquill to get him to go to sleep). The only specific example of putting him down that I can recall is at a gymnastics meet, where Homer starts off pretty well and out of nowhere Abe shouts, "YOU'RE GONNA BLOW IT!" causing Homer to screw up and Abe to put him down some more.

Actually, I can see some parallels with this between Homer and Bart's childhoods. Abe wasn't necessarily supportive of Homer, just like Homer isn't as supportive of bart as he could be. On the other hand, Mona clearly loved Homer and truly tried to spend time with him, and I think that level of care is on par with what we see with Marge and Bart's relationship - just that Marge has never had to leave.

I mean, you can even see that the house Homer lived in when he was growing up was kinda crappy, whereas he and his family live in a pretty nice house now. I personally prefer to disacknowledge the whole "Simpson gene" thing (and I'm not the biggest fan of that episode for its portrayl of Bart... he is smarter than that), and I don't like the crayon thing so much, either. It seems more that it's the kind of environment Homer grew up in, something that his own kids don't have a problem with because they do have a fairly nice one.

I liked what Homer was getting to in the movie before Marge yelled at him, though I can't remember exactly what he said. Anybody remember?

[Kiyosuki]

On showrunners: It's just, it's getting stale and annoying now. Look at all of the marriage crisis plots in season 17. Getting someone else's take on the direction the show should go in would probably do it some good, and at the very least, liven it up.

On the Simpson gene and related topics: There have been a bunch of flashbacks with Abe just mistreating Homer in some way (like giving him Nyquill to get him to go to sleep). The only specific example of putting him down that I can recall is at a gymnastics meet, where Homer starts off pretty well and out of nowhere Abe shouts, "YOU'RE GONNA BLOW IT!" causing Homer to screw up and Abe to put him down some more.

Actually, I can see some parallels with this between Homer and Bart's childhoods. Abe wasn't necessarily supportive of Homer, just like Homer isn't as supportive of bart as he could be. On the other hand, Mona clearly loved Homer and truly tried to spend time with him, and I think that level of care is on par with what we see with Marge and Bart's relationship - just that Marge has never had to leave.

I mean, you can even see that the house Homer lived in when he was growing up was kinda crappy, whereas he and his family live in a pretty nice house now. I personally prefer to disacknowledge the whole "Simpson gene" thing (and I'm not the biggest fan of that episode for its portrayl of Bart... he is smarter than that), and I don't like the crayon thing so much, either. It seems more that it's the kind of environment Homer grew up in, something that his own kids don't have a problem with because they do have a fairly nice one.

I liked what Homer was getting to in the movie before Marge yelled at him, though I can't remember exactly what he said. Anybody remember?

He basically actually says everything we've talked about in plain. When Bart apologizes to him for saying he wished he wasn't his father (for whatever reason, if you ask me. Its really Homer who's gotta be apoligizing until doomsday to everyone here.), Homer says something along the lines of "I don't blame ya son, I wasn't much of a father. Maybe it all started with how my dad raised me. Yes, its clear to me. Its all just been one big cycle of..."

"Would somebody throw the goddamn bomb!"

Its treated basically like a throwaway line. lol I wouldn't of minded if it were taken a little more seriously, but they were pressed for time so what can you do. But thats where this thought kinda came from.

And maybe someday Bart'll break that cycle. At least I like to think so.

[luben]

^ Yeah, thanks. That's what wasn't clear to me in your first post.

[Charlie]

^ Agreed. he's been showrunner since the season one DVD came out. That's (one, two...) Six years. He should just quit while he's......losing

Don't forget to count his two seasons co-running it with Reiss, as well as the few episodes in seasons 6, 8 and 9.

[Mr_Scorpion]

Its treated basically like a throwaway line. lol I wouldn't of minded if it were taken a little more seriously, but they were pressed for time so what can you do. But thats where this thought kinda came from.

I noticed that too. It felt like Homer was a few seconds away from hitting upon the main source of conflict between him and his family, but wasn't quite given enough time to complete the thought process.

[arii]

You know, something else that's kinda of always bugged me a little bit, but last night I "felt" it a little more...

Patty and Selma's relationships with one another... Like they're identical twins, they're obviously very close and the like, but you know, I was watching Principal Charming last night and this has always irritated me. Patty truly did find someone for her and gave Skinner up just for Selma's sake, but then Selma's gone off and gotten married what, how many times now? Five, or something? without really any consideration towards Patty.

I guess Patty doesn't really care about being alone nearly as much, but you know, that's kind of always really agitated me at least a little, how loyal Patty is to her twin, and yet Selma will just carelessly dump Patty whenever she finds a man.

[Kiyosuki]

You know, something else that's kinda of always bugged me a little bit, but last night I "felt" it a little more...

Patty and Selma's relationships with one another... Like they're identical twins, they're obviously very close and the like, but you know, I was watching Principal Charming last night and this has always irritated me. Patty truly did find someone for her and gave Skinner up just for Selma's sake, but then Selma's gone off and gotten married what, how many times now? Five, or something? without really any consideration towards Patty.

I guess Patty doesn't really care about being alone nearly as much, but you know, that's kind of always really agitated me at least a little, how loyal Patty is to her twin, and yet Selma will just carelessly dump Patty whenever she finds a man.

Thats the eternally bittersweet thing about the show, its own status quo. The reason certain things will go back to "normal". There've been a ton of times I so wished certain changes in a character would stay permanent but my better judgement usually knows that won't happen.

Well...they do stay actually in a very subtle way once in a while, but in general its why many countless lessons Homer's learned have seemingly been forgotten, why Lisa's had the nerve to say something like "When has Bart ever done anything for me?", why Ralph was madly popular for a moment but that went away, why Krusty's had the nerve to forget about Bart by this point in time, why Wiggum was Police Commissioner then suddenly he's not, and why a lot of the seemingly final changes that happened in the movie will probably not materialize in episodes after too much. Its all mostly gotta be reverted.

Like I said sometimes there is a kind of quasi continuity though, and some things do carry over, but not as much as maybe some would like.

Its never major major stuff though that if you really want to look at it not from an out-of-show perspective, you could say something like maybe Selma is just really shallow. Or Homer'll never learn, Lisa's forgetful, popularity is fleeting even for Ralph etc.

Or one way of looking at it is Matt brought up in this one interview that maybe the show is made up of different dimensions, different possibilities and alternate takes. Not just the obvious ones like the Treehouses or the possibilities of the future episodes, but even the main show itself. So in a way...you could kind of take the show as you want to. Even discount certain episodes you don't like in some way as "not part of your universe". :silly:

Well, however you take it, best not too take it too much to heart.

[arii]

Of course it's the status quo, but it's the way it goes back to it. Like there can be different ways for each thing happening, but the one thing I've just noted about their relationship is that Selma's never takena step back to look at Patty or anything: it's always because something in the marriage goes wrong with no other acknowledgement.

I don't really like major changes in the show. Sometimes there have been some great ones (like the van Houtens, or Skinner/Krabappel... and even those got messed up and "fixed"), it's just the way they revert everything back to normal. I don't really want either of the sisters to find true love.

Of course it isn't being taken too close to heart, but it's just something I've more recently picked up on, how someone can really appreciate someone else and yet it doesn't seem to be reciprocated, even with twins or anything.

[Kiyosuki]

http://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?t=64179

[Dental Plan!]

Bwahahaha. Kiyosuki, please never stop posting here.

Also, has anyone noticed that Homer's overbite seems to be really exaggerated in seasons 13 and 14?

[Imperciph]

I can definitely see what you guys mean by 16 and up feeling different than 13-15. Its tough to say why exactly but I always felt that way. Maybe it got more topical?

The differences are subtle but many. If one sees the the good episodes of s16, one would feel that the episodes are a lot more streamlined in plotting, pacing gag-writing, character-writing etc. compared to s13-15, especially s13 and 14 which while producing more inspired moments on the whole than 15 and 16, were were full of uneven plotting and pacing as well as erratic gag and character-writing. This can be explained as Jean's team finally developing a stabilized style.

On the other hand, the lesser episodes demonstrate the adverse effects this "settling down" style had to offer. These lesser episodes feel like they have little or no creative drive behind them, just formulaically going through the motions. It is these bland lifelessness that seems to have spread into s17 and s18 9though JABFs have demonstrated efforts being made to get over this stagnant feeling).

[Charlie]

The differences are subtle but many.

For example, Radioactive Man has his famous catch phrase, "Up and at 'em!" with "at 'em" spelled A-T-O-M in a delicious pun.
Milhouse: Go on...
Bart: While Radiation Dude has a similar but lamer catch phrase, "Up and let's go!"

---

It had to be done.

[Imperciph]

.........

That's Seth Mcfarlane level subtlety, Ivan.

[TheForbiddenDonut]

I finally made a find that the snpp folks missed out on. In 'Three Men and a Comic Book', on the way to the comic convention, if you study what flies by out the car window, the sign for 'Bob's RV Roundup' goes by for a split second.

[General Jack D. Ripper]

I'll never think of OFF the same way again after TFD's post.

What are some of you NHCer's favorite really clever political joke or observation?

Off the top of my head, I'm a big fan of Burns's repetition of "I will lower taxes!" and "those democrats in the state capital!"

[luben]

Bumped.

Where the fuck is Kiyosuki?


Edit: Oh, yeah, I got another star.