View Poll Results: Is this episode a dog?

Voters
127. You may not vote on this poll
  • 5/5

    79 62.20%
  • 4/5

    26 20.47%
  • 3/5

    17 13.39%
  • 2/5

    5 3.94%
  • 1/5

    0 0%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 60



Thread: R&R: The Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie Show



(Users Browsing this Thread: )

  1. #1
    post brody's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    ky
    Posts
    9,444


    R&R: The Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie Show

    A+. One of my all time favorites.

  2. #2
    Another boring year
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The boring city of Bogota, Colombia
    Posts
    677


    5/5 one of the last episodes of the golden era
    scuse me if i write bad (the english kick my ass)

  3. #3
    SuperFriend Nameless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    UK-Land
    Posts
    9,266


    For the season where the decline was rapidly noticable, this sure was good. 5/5
    Season 27 Ratings
    Awful, probably

  4. #4
    back in black
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Springfield Mystery Spot
    Posts
    2,349


    A very funny episode, one of the better Season 8 episodes, but as Nameless noted, it really doesn't accomplish anything other than emphasizing the decline of The Simpsons itself. It's still good enough for a high 4/5 grade.
    Bart: "Please don't call our parents!"
    Chief: "I'm afraid I have to for hijinks like these. Hijinks - it's a funny word. Three dotted letters in a row."
    Eddie: "Is it hyphenated?"
    Chief: "It used to be, back in the good old days, you know. Of course, every generation hyphenates the way it wants to. Then there's *NSYNC! What the hell is that? Jump in any time there, Eddie, these are good topics."

  5. #5
    I didn't do it amir05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,875


    A very good,funny episode.one of season 8s best 5/5

  6. #6
    Hold onto your dick Green_Peaness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Shawnee, Kansas
    Posts
    4,270


    I wonder how Veryjammy / Channel Surfer / etc will grade this episode. I get the feeling that it's overrated a bit, but I still enjoy the hell out of it. Maybe not the funniest episode, but one of the most entertaining imo. Not sure why.

    A
    Ultra-exclusive ass-burger club members: Green_Peaness, Mysti_Pony, Reverend Lovejoy, DoTheBartman, McMeatLoaf, BatofZion, ppoi307, Wendy Windbag

    Seinfeld > Simpsons

    Black music owns

  7. #7
    MOAR Semaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    8,043


    If more shows took light of this episode's message, society will move forward.

    5/5

  8. #8
    something clever grissom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    massachusetts
    Posts
    10,723


    Awesome episode. 5/5

  9. #9
    grappling with local oaf Postmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    NW London
    Posts
    10,517
    Blog Entries
    2


    I think it's an A+ although my one objection is that Bart's "What right fo you have to complain" Is far too glib, I'm sure it's not the intent of the staff but it almost implies that the staff think that no one should be allowed to criticise them.

  10. #10
    Stonecutter Veryjammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,467


    I need to see it again really. I have to say when I first saw it (at about 13 I think), the whole subtext of the episode flew right over my head and I didn't get much out of it. It actually wasn't until I was on the internet that I realised what the episode was in response to and what it was satirising. I think for that reason it loses a little of the widespread appeal other episodes may have by basing the whole thing around a very narrow section of Simpsons' fans (although of course it does also work as a satire on much of tv in general.)

    That aside it's incredibly astute, as much of the show's run has always been, but not always particularly entertaining for me. I know this is a lot of people's last ever A+, and I can understand that, but it's an O&W episode so you know what I'm gonna moan about....pacing, pacing, pacing. Aside from that I can't say it's really an episode I would choose to watch very often given the choice, so A-

  11. #11
    You Betcha Homer J Brannigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    545


    The third best episode of season 8. 5/5

  12. #12
    lp.org Mira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    3,431


    A+, A top ten for me.

  13. #13
    Well that was a freebie Keller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    660


    A+
    One of my favorites
    [SIZE=1]

  14. #14


    Quote Originally Posted by Veryjammy
    I know this is a lot of people's last ever A+, and I can understand that, but it's an O&W episode so you know what I'm gonna moan about....pacing, pacing, pacing.
    Pacing problems in "I&S&PS"? What scenes move too slow or too fast? What points, plot or otherwise, does it linger too long on, or breeze over too quickly? How many moments beyond the span of about two seconds, even considering the debatably tacky weight given to Homer's plight (I guess that's how I'll put it) and his speech, are there where there isn't a joke, or setting up the punchline for a joke? And how are the pacing problems so prevalent that this episode can be singled out? Maybe it's just me but I do think you have now reached a point where you have taken Oakley and Weinstein nitpicks and heightened them to such a ridiculous degree that I'm not even sure what you're basing them off anymore. Nevermind having grossly exaggerated their problems when compared to typical Mirkin problems or typical Jean & Reiss problems or hell even typical Jean problems.

    But again, maybe it's just me.

  15. #15
    Stonecutter Veryjammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,467


    Well like I said, I need to see it again really, I don't know the episode anywhere near well enough to launch into a detailed critique of it, hence my somewhat vague review. And on the whole I guess I have criticised O&W more than anyone as EPs (Scully aside obviously), but that's because everyone knows Jean still has big problems (he's managed less A-range episodes in 4 years than O&W managed in 1) whereas O&W are imo, praised excessively considering that Season 8 in particular was a considerable slide for the show. Sure, Mirkin and Jean & Reiss have their problems, but to me their problems are sometimes overstated. So, some Mirkin episodes have very thin plots on which to hang a parade of jokes - that doesn't matter to me if I'm laughing my ass off for 22 minutes as he consistently made me do. So some Season 2 or 3 episodes were slow paced also? It matters less when there is incredibly sharp, witty dialogue and intelligent storytelling. O&W don't really satisfy me either way. Of course they have produced classics, but substantially less than in the preceding years imo (and interestingly one of their episodes which I love, Scenes From A Class Struggle, is routinely voted worst of Season 7 here.)

    So what am I trying to say.....mainly that a lot of O&W episodes have a 'feel' to them I don't particularly care for, a certain mundanity and lack of spark, less inspired joke writing (all of which became particularly prevalent at the end of their tenure). They were ambitious but not always successful. I single a lot of O&W episodes out for pacing, when perhaps I should be saying I find some parts of them dull which is a different thing altogether.

    Either way, this is a good episode from them, I'm not denying that, I'm just basing my opinion on how entertained I remember being the last time I saw it, which was sufficiently but with moments of slight tedium. I may well download this later on in which case I'll be back
    Last edited by Veryjammy; 08-26-2005 at 05:58 AM.

  16. #16


    This episode is very overrated IMO. I think lots of fans love it so much because it proves that the writers know that us obsessive fans exist and theyre having a huge joke on us that most people who watch the show wouldnt really get. Its as if they made the episode just for us. The 1st and 2nd acts are quite good but I dont like the resolution of the episode. Some of the meta-references are quite good, all the writers appearing in cartoon form (if im not mistaken) etc.
    Best line for me is flanders: 'I can honestly say thats the best episode of impy and chimpy i've ever seen'
    B+
    I'm just like Homer!
    I'm Homer, who are you? by NoHomers.net
    mighty fine sper-lunkin'!

  17. #17
    Stonecutter
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,530


    Possibly the last A+

  18. #18
    streets ahead Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    9,454


    A great episode - the last true classic. 10/10

  19. #19


    VeryJammy: If I were to criticize Mirkin, Jean & Reiss, ect, it would be more than saying they have thin plots but are still funny or whatever, or that they may be slow paced but have intelligent storytelling that favors that pace with dialogue-driven humor and so on. Especially Mirkin, he brought the first true taste outside of season 1 of forced emotion and unbelievable conflicts with a fair amount of season 5 and 6 episodes, as early as "Marge on the Lam", and for the most part I do not think his episodes were much funnier than the era before, or after him.

    Though it's not that I don't agree with you about virtually all of your problems with Oakley and Weinstein. But critically looking at any episode, I think you'll find some dull moments, that span between the jokes and whatever, with any episode made. I do not think "Poochie" has this problem, at least in any greater quantity than any other classic episode during Mirkin or Jean & Reiss or Groening, Brooks, Simon, or whenever. Which is why I think you, like I said, tend to take what I consider a nitpick during O&W's eras and turn it into an epidemic while glossing over other era's problems fairly casually, even if claiming you're drawing attention to problems most members here may overlook.

  20. #20
    a fervent propulsion Tinselled Jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    bristol, uk
    Posts
    6,676
    Blog Entries
    44


    Haven't seen it in ages,in fact, the first episode I watched all the way through, but I have good memories of it.
    couldn't trust her with cheese, let alone with your keys

  21. #21
    Stonecutter Veryjammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,467


    Well I rewatched it and admittedly pacing isn't one of its problems; in future I'll try to limit my cries of pacing problems when my memory of the episode is somewhat vague. If I were to criticise the episode I would argue that, much like H_T mentioned, it could be interpreted that the creators think we don't have any right to be critical, when people are naturally critical of anything they know and love in any media - be it a new album from your favourite band, a new film from your favourite director, or a new book from your favourite author. By all means satirise our geeky tendancies to over-analyse and nitpick, but don't tell us we aren't allowed to do so if we wish.

    Additionally the story isn't particularly involving; never do I feel that bothered about Homer's plight and therefore his speech doesn't have the impact it probably should. Still it's a very clever, astute show with a lot of great gags (maybe overdoing it with the proactive spiel) and I'd say it probably deserves an A.

    As for the EP issue, I limited my talk about Jean and Reiss and Mirkin mainly because I didn't want to take this thread wildly O/T, so I'll try to keep it short and if you wish to continue it elsewhere let me know Some of my, maybe irrational nitpicking at O&W, is largely because I really got into the show around their tenure and I noticed that the episodes being advertised as 'new' I enjoyed less than the repeats, hence I associated them with the downturn of the show (even if the slide was miniscule compared to Scully). At the end of the day it probably comes down to stylistic preferences and I prefer Mirkin's gag-driven, fast-paced approach which, imo, never compromised character or threw in false emotion as much as some would make out, particularly with regard to Season 5, although of course there are instances where that is true, e.g Homer Goes To College. After the riotous Seasons 5 and 6, the O&W era sometimes seemed like a bit of a comedown

  22. #22


    Quote Originally Posted by Veryjammy
    As for the EP issue, I limited my talk about Jean and Reiss and Mirkin mainly because I didn't want to take this thread wildly O/T, so I'll try to keep it short and if you wish to continue it elsewhere let me know
    No need to continue it. Our respective points have more than been made, and the criticism I was after on this episode I understand better. Going beyond this anyway passes the realm of discussion into something much more nitpicky, which tends to not be that much fun I think. Plus, on Mirkin especially I'll probably have more detailed comments ready when I get and watch the season 6 DVD, and will post them in some thread then (although I can safely say already it'll retread many complaints said about his era in past threads).
    Last edited by Channel Surfer; 08-26-2005 at 11:59 AM.

  23. #23
    I'm not your friend-o Cartoonnetwork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,783
    Blog Entries
    1


    Quote Originally Posted by Veryjammy
    Well I rewatched it and admittedly pacing isn't one of its problems; in future I'll try to limit my cries of pacing problems when my memory of the episode is somewhat vague. If I were to criticise the episode I would argue that, much like H_T mentioned, it could be interpreted that the creators think we don't have any right to be critical, when people are naturally critical of anything they know and love in any media - be it a new album from your favourite band, a new film from your favourite director, or a new book from your favourite author. By all means satirise our geeky tendancies to over-analyse and nitpick, but don't tell us we aren't allowed to do so if we wish.
    I totally agree with this. I would point out also that Homer's conflict seems a little ficticious for me, I mean, if you love a cartoon character you are making the voice for (and I really don't feel like Homer would be so interested in this particular job either) you don't make a sappy speech for him, you should write a funny script with good jokes in it...Anyway, I allways find funny when they show executives crying and they doing what they do better: to make corny changes. I'm also not mad about the meta reference with this guy who looks like Poochie ( can't remember his name, look how not-so-nerdy I am).

    I would rather take any Swartzwelder I and S episode before this one, but it is still good.

  24. #24
    grappling with local oaf Postmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    NW London
    Posts
    10,517
    Blog Entries
    2


    Quote Originally Posted by Channel Surfer
    I do not think "Poochie" has this problem, at least in any greater quantity than any other classic episode during Mirkin or Jean & Reiss or Groening, Brooks, Simon, or whenever. .
    You know I'm curious, I don't think I've ever seen someone with a more old school point of view offer any real criticism of season 2 and 3, what would you say are the shortcomings of those seasons.

  25. #25
    Hold onto your dick Green_Peaness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Shawnee, Kansas
    Posts
    4,270


    The speech was sappy, but it wasn't supposed to stand on its own. It was just a set up (and it paid off well) for them killing Poochie off in the next cartoon. I really don't think the writers even intended for the audience to feel sorry for Homer in that speech, but maybe I'm wrong.

  26. #26


    Quote Originally Posted by Veryjammy
    It actually wasn't until I was on the internet that I realised what the episode was in response to and what it was satirising. I think for that reason it loses a little of the widespread appeal other episodes may have by basing the whole thing around a very narrow section of Simpsons' fans (although of course it does also work as a satire on much of tv in general.)
    I've always thought that too much has been made of this episode as a satire of Simpsons fandom. Largely because the alt.tv.simpsons group assumed, based on one scene, that the episode was a response to them. But except for that one scene with Comic Book Guy, most of it is just a straightforward satire of networks and their stupid demands. Even the focus-group scene isn't really about fans, let alone online fans; it's more a satire of the problem with focus-group testing, which is that it yields contradictory results (and that the problem with trying to figure out "what the audience wants" is that the audience doesn't necessarily know what it wants).

    If there's a problem with the episode it's not that it's too focused on fandom but that it's too much of an inside-baseball focus on behind-the-scenes TV stuff. But I think the writers did a good job of relating the major story points to things we're all familiar with from TV viewing -- so whether or not we know the inside stuff they're referring to, we've all seen shows re-tooled to add new, awful characters, and shows that have an unbelievably lame idea of what "cool" characters are.

    It's a measure of how well this episode holds up that when Warner Brothers announced their "Loonatics" series, with the Looney Tunes characters changed to resemble what network executives think today's kids like, every article and blog post compared it to "Poochie." It really is a timeless thing.

  27. #27
    Hired Goon DotheBartman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    11,103


    Quote Originally Posted by arlen_texas
    I've always thought that too much has been made of this episode as a satire of Simpsons fandom. Largely because the alt.tv.simpsons group assumed, based on one scene, that the episode was a response to them. But except for that one scene with Comic Book Guy, most of it is just a straightforward satire of networks and their stupid demands. Even the focus-group scene isn't really about fans, let alone online fans; it's more a satire of the problem with focus-group testing, which is that it yields contradictory results (and that the problem with trying to figure out "what the audience wants" is that the audience doesn't necessarily know what it wants).
    Yeah, I was going to say this. While visiting Simpsons internet forums certainly adds dimension to the CBG scene (and to some extent the nerd convention scene), it's just a general satire of the television business, and the fan-satirizing scene is just a component of that.

    Anyway, excellent episode, one of the best of season eight. As arlen noted, it shows how timeless this episode is that it can be so easily compared to "Loonatics" (I personally always think of Jar Jar Binks as well when I watch it).
    Two eyes, two ears, a chin, a mouth, ten fingers, two nipples, a butt, two kneecaps, a penis. I've just described to you the Loch Ness Monster. And the reward for its capture? All the riches in Scotland. So I have one question: why are you here?

  28. #28
    I like annoying avatar images Clarence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    I AM CANADIAN
    Posts
    5,585


    Good, not great, not bad, above good really, but below great, but not nearly bad enough to be crap, this is nowheres near crap, this is just above good, but below great, it's glood, there I invented a whole new word, just for this episode.

    4.5/5


    click HERE if my Jesus with Guns avatar offends you (or if ya wanna get a laugh)

  29. #29


    Quote Originally Posted by Homer_Thompson
    You know I'm curious, I don't think I've ever seen someone with a more old school point of view offer any real criticism of season 2 and 3, what would you say are the shortcomings of those seasons.
    Well, there is a reason old schoolers wouldn't criticize old school seasons you know. But I wouldn't classify myself as an old schooler so...

    Season 3 has frequently been criticized for lacking much ambition, search around and you'll find something. As for season 2 (and partly 3 as well), I'm not going to write anything too lengthy in this thread for obvious reasons, and none of the criticisms would be major (though none in any of the classic seasons would be of course, it would always be emphasizing the weak links), but I did compile a small list of criticisms here. Not all of these points I agree with but there are some in there which are relevant. Aside from the stuff in there, most of the other season 2 shortcomings would probably emphasize a tendency to take thin (and often very padded), common-place plotlines and play them in rather ordinary, uninsightful, maybe even dull ways. "Bart's Dog Gets an 'F'" is the most obvious offender, padding out for two acts a very well-worn dog destroys house story that when it finally ends has a conclusion that amounts to nothing, assuming it even makes any sense. Other episodes like "Bart Gets an F" (Martin's tangent reeks of padding), "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" (particularly in Herb's outright idiocy in not even taking one look at the car Homer is designing), "The War of the Simpsons", and "Dancin' Homer" also, all pad out very simple, common plotlines. Hell, most of the season 2, 3, as well as much of 4, 5, and 6 premises are based in the standard sitcom stash, for better or for worse. Even some of the really great ones like "One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish", "Homer vs. Lisa vs. the 8th Commandment", and even "Lisa's Substitute" (particularly the subplot) have sitcom roots, and some great sequences like Bart's misadventures with Mrs. Quick in "Three Men and a Comic Book" still strike me as filler. For the best of them this still is not a problem. But with the weaker episodes dragging out ordinary sitcomish premises long past whatever novelty it may have had, it can make for comparatively, or just dull episodes, even with season 2.
    Last edited by Channel Surfer; 08-27-2005 at 11:14 PM.

  30. #30
    Junior Camper
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    30


    Shocked

    Quote Originally Posted by arlen_texas
    ...........But except for that one scene with Comic Book Guy, most of it is just a straightforward satire of networks and their stupid demands. Even the focus-group scene isn't really about fans, let alone online fans; it's more a satire of the problem with focus-group testing, which is that it yields contradictory results (and that the problem with trying to figure out "what the audience wants" is that the audience doesn't necessarily know what it wants).
    Couldn't agree more. And any episode with the line "Animation isn't recorded live, Homer; it puts a terrible strain on the animator's wrists" would be a classic in any season.



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •