Season 17 Information

[prince jafar allah]

if you keep saying really stupid things, people will argue with you. if you want people to stop arguing with you, stop saying really stupid things. it's not hard.

[Veryjammy]

Why are people having a go at Silverlimit? There are tons of threads where people say Jon Swartzelder is better than Jon Vitti or Ian Maxtone-Graham is rubbish, despite the fact that deep down we all know they only write about 30% of the script. So what's the difference between Silverlimit saying that, based on the writing credits, he only thinks 3 people on the staff are good, when we're always debating writer's merits anyway? I would broadly agree with his choices, based on the episodes those guys were credited with writing.

[Galalimit]

if you keep saying really stupid things, people will argue with you. if you want people to stop arguing with you, stop saying really stupid things. it's not hard.

I can't believe you're still going on. How is saying "Matt Selman is the only great writer on the staff right now, with J. Stewart Burns and Michael Price just above average, all the other writers are average and below" a stupid thing to say?

And whatever, i'm sick of this crap from you Jafar, i've just sent a PM compliant to one of the mods of this section.

[prince jafar allah]

because it's a totally inane and insulting statement. it's one thing to say "matt selman has a good writing record" or "the only good thing ian maxtone-graham has written has been such-and-such", it's entirely another to make personal statements about all of the writers being "average or below" when you know absolutely nothing about them beyond what episodes they're credited with. i may have overlooked it if a couple of weeks ago you hadn't similarly insulted the koth writers with a similarly totally ill-informed post (which you later edited out and claimed was "dumb"), or insulted harry shearer with a similarly totally ill-informed post just yesterday. stop making opinionated judgements about people and things you know nothing about, and people will not make fun of or argue with you.

[Galalimit]

As Veryjammy said, I made that writers statment "based on the episodes those guys were credited with writing." Even though only 30% of their original script made remain intact, there's still a difference between different writers episodes.

And just becuase only 30% of that original script remains intact, doesn't mean that only 30% of the episode is actually that writers own material. The specific writer is also involved in the rewriting process so he might've(most likely did) added new things in the script later on.

[Nameless]

Jafar still wins. He has made good points to all your posts.

[Dorkus Malorkus]

jafar has a good point, but there's no need to be an ass about it, it's pretty obvious silverlimit's gonna get pissed off...

[Postmaster]

It's perfectly understandable to get angry with people when they post 100 times a day with stupid inane posts. He's done this many times before now making either ill informed posts or unessecary 1 sentence posts. He's using this place as a chatroom. It's got beyond ridiculous now. are there any threads on this site where Silverlimit doesn't make useless half sentence or ill-informed comments. When I come here I hope to engage at least one brain cell but there seems to be very little activity and discussion besides Silverlimit and Nameless Omine going back and fourth over boring crap.

[prince jafar allah]

silverlimit, it's been clarified many times in many threads that it's impossible to make any observations on the style of individual writers (at least in the later more committee-driven seasons). even well-known perceptions of writers' styles like tim long's third act wackiness and maxtone-graham's on-the-run stories don't stand up to much scrutiny. and certainly what we can tell about individual writers from their episodes is nowhere near enough to validate statements about the writers themselves like "all the other writers are average at best", especially when your "30% of the original script" understanding of how the writing process works and how that would relate to the writer credits is woefully oversimplified and glib.

[Homer Jay]

Also how can there be only 3 writers who are average or above average? Do you know what average means?

[Veryjammy]

silverlimit, it's been clarified many times in many threads that it's impossible to make any observations on the style of individual writers (at least in the later more committee-driven seasons). even well-known perceptions of writers' styles like tim long's third act wackiness and maxtone-graham's on-the-run stories don't stand up to much scrutiny. and certainly what we can tell about individual writers from their episodes is nowhere near enough to validate statements about the writers themselves like "all the other writers are average at best", especially when your "30% of the original script" understanding of how the writing process works and how that would relate to the writer credits is woefully oversimplified and glib.

I understand what you're saying but nearly everyone on here does that. Even Channel Surfer has added his two cents to the Swartwelder Vs Vitti thread. I just don't think it's fair to single out Silverlimit, why not go in the Swartzwelder/Vitti thread and tell everyone there they're wrong for trying to single out the better writer?

Also how can there be only 3 writers who are average or above average? Do you know what average means?

I suspect he means by the standard of the series as a whole.

[Nameless]

Silverlimit is being "singled out" because he is making comments that are inaccurate or silly.

[Galalimit]

How the hell can my comments be inaccurate or silly if they're just MY OPINIONS? You don't have to agree with them, just like I don't have to agree with yours.

Man, all I did was make a simple reply to bovine_university's post about all the new writers and this huge fight starts.

[Nameless]

Have you actually read any of Jafar's posts throughly?

[prince jafar allah]

I understand what you're saying but nearly everyone on here does that. Even Channel Surfer has added his two cents to the Swartwelder Vs Vitti thread. I just don't think it's fair to single out Silverlimit, why not go in the Swartzwelder/Vitti thread and tell everyone there they're wrong for trying to single out the better writer?

most of the comments in that thread, including channel surfer's, are clearly far more concerned with whose writing record is better, than who personally is "the better writer" and a greater asset to the writing staff.

[Galalimit]

Did you not read my previous post? I said I made my judgement BASED OFF WRITING RECORDS.

Matt Selman is credited on nothing but classic episodes. J Stewart Burns and Michael Price's credited episodes have all been slightly above average.

The rest of the writers, Graham/Omine/Warburton/Payne/Frink/Wilmore/Long/etc's credited episodes have all been average or lower.

That's what I made my judgement on.

[prince jafar allah]

which is a stupid thing to base such a judgement on. this has been my point all along.

[Galalimit]

That's the same way everyone else judges a writer on this board. You have to do it that way, looking at a writer's track record is the only way to tell if they're a good writer or a bad writer, it's not 100% accurate at all but it's the only way since we don't know each person who wrote each line in each script in each rewriting process.


How do you think people came to the conclusion that Jon Vitti and John Swartzwelder are the 2 best simpson writers in the show's history. BY THEIR TRACK RECORDS, BECAUSE THEY'RE CREDITED FOR THE BEST EPISODES IN THE SERIES.


And if you can't make a judgment of a certain writer based off their track record, like your claiming Jafar, then you can't make any judgement about any writer at all because there's no other way to do so. Which means no one can say Jon Vitti and John Swartzwelder are the best writers on the staff. No one can make any claim about any writer at all.

[Veryjammy]

I'm with Silverlimit here. People on the board will say 'When's Jon Swartzwelder coming back, he's a great writer.' What are they basing that on? His track record. People will say, 'Ken Keeler was the worst writer of the golden era'. What are they basing that on? The episodes he was credited with. That's all anyone can do.

Silverlimit's point is that he's glad new writers have been added to the show because he believes that only three current writers have good track records. Only he phrased it as there are only three good writers on the show. So this is nit-picking at phrasing when we all know what he meant

[Nameless]

...I'm a little confused, but I'm sure Jafar will straighten things out

[Galalimit]

Only he phrased it as there are only three good writers on the show. So this is nit-picking at phrasing when we all know what he meant

You're correct. I phrased it abit wrong.

[prince jafar allah]

Which means no one say Jon Vitti and John Swartzwelder are the best writers on the staff. No one can make any claim about any writer at all.

not the kind of claim you made, no.

People on the board will say 'When's Jon Swartzwelder coming back, he's a great writer.' What are they basing that on? His track record.

or the fact that he's got a lot of experience with the show, or what they know about his style of humor from commentaries or the more individual classic era episodes. swartzwelder's track record isn't exactly great (i'm talking general consensus here), it's more or less average for whatever time he was writing the episode at. people's fascination with him has to do with a lot more than just his bare record.

People will say, 'Ken Keeler was the worst writer of the golden era'. What are they basing that on? The episodes he was credited with.

ken keeler's writing record on OFF was poor, but it would be stupid to make the assumption that he's a "bad writer", like silverlimit did for the s16 staff, for obvious reasons i've already been over. as perfectly demonstrated when he went to futurama and by all accounts was very influential over the show's style and in fact was credited with writing several great episodes there.

making a judgment over whether or not someone is a "good writer" and an asset to the staff based on solely their writing record is pointless and silly, basically. especially if you do it in such a disrespectful, hopelessly generalized manner.

[Binky]

I don't think Silverlimit understands the concept of subjectivity. There is no such thing as a "best episode" or "best episodes". Just because you have a favorite writer doesn't mean he's the "best writer on the show".

[Galalimit]

Read the fucking post I just made above you Jafar. I said I accidently phrased abit wrong. I wasn't judging how the writers are personally or how much of an asset they are on the staff. I don't even know what any of these writers look like, I can't make a judgement on how they are personally and I NEVER DID AND I NEVER WILL. It might have seemed like that unintentionally to you BUT I NEVER DID. I made the correction in the post above you if you even bothered to look.

[Veryjammy]

I don't think Silverlimit understands the concept of subjectivity. There is no such thing as a "best episode" or "best episodes". Just because you have a favorite writer doesn't mean he's the "best writer on the show".

Lots and lots of people on here make these assumptions all the time.

Silverlimit's opinion is that only 3 current writers have good track records. That is all. So he is glad new writers are coming in, because IN HIS OPINION a lot of the current writers don't have good track records. So he is hoping the new staff might prove to have better records at writing episodes in the future, in his opinion.

There really shouldn't be any need to keep saying imo on here, because everything is opinions. So if Silverlimit says someone is the best writer on the show, it is obvious that is his opinion, he's never claimed it was fact. I'm just saying this because it seems like everyone wants every sentence to end with imo in order to appear 'subjective'.

[Galalimit]

Exactly Veryjammy. Thank you.

[Butters]

ugh... season 17 seems like some freaky frakky soap opera. with the exception of jafar, the characterisations are far from perfect. silverlimit starting another go-no-where argument has been done to death, and the inclusion of veryjammy on his side could be a nice twist; but it fails, adding no comedic value. i hate how the writers feel it necessary to constantly have carolyn omine pop up to add her two cents, albeit completely unnecessary and repeating something already mentioned. the sub-plot, with binky and the definition of "best episode ever" was a rather interesting dynamic, but it was underplayed. however, the brief scene we saw was enough to guarantee the season something in the C range. there's no real problems with binky's B-plot, it was cleverly written and straight to the point, as well as true to life. it's more or less the main plot, where everyone (sans jafar) is having an argument, where they clearly don't understand what they're arguing about but are making up cocky excuses that can be passed off as a defense. all in all, it looks to be another below average season for OFF. C+

edit: and another thing? what is with that Butters' guy and the lame jokes revolving around him. i really wish the writers would get it into their heads that he's just not funny and he should be killed off or something.

[Binky]

Well done Butters!

[prince jafar allah]

Silverlimit's opinion is that only 3 current writers have good track records. That is all. So he is glad new writers are coming in, because IN HIS OPINION a lot of the current writers don't have good track records. So he is hoping the new staff might prove to have better records at writing episodes in the future, in his opinion.

then all he needs to say is "hopefully the show will get better with an influx of new writers". making blind distinctions between individual members of the writing staff is inane.

awhat is with that Butters' guy and the lame jokes revolving around him. i really wish the writers would get it into their heads that he's just not funny and he should be killed off or something

you seem to have inserted a quite agreeable quote from a south park review into your review of season 17. strange

[Mike Scully]

Silverlimit, please simply report any posts that bother you the the moderators and just stick to responding to Jafar's points. Jafar and everyone else, please stop provoking Silverlimit.

This argument is pointless; yes, Silverlimit could have phrased what he meant better, that's all, just leave it at that.