Season 17 Information

[Snack Related Mishap]

C- would be a good grade by terrok, In fact when I see terrok's grades, I tend to add 1 or two thirds (like moving a c- to a c+) because he does F-'s and F+'s. and I don't do F's because for me that would have to mean nothing in the episode was even the slightest bit redeeming and every episode has at least made me smile a few times.

Good idea, no offense TerrorK, but your grades make me sad. Moving them up by 2/3 of a grade, would probably help. Again, no offense, but only one B in the Jean Era, I think that's nitpicking a little too much.

[Jayrayman]

^ What was the only episode he graded a B?

[Snack Related Mishap]

^ What was the only episode he graded a B?

Sleeping with the Enemy I believe. But I think he only gave it a B-.

[HOMR]

What the hell could "Please Homer, Don't Hammer 'Em" be about? Homer going mad with a hammer?
And if it's true that it's written by Matt Warburton, is this the first time a writer has written two eps in a row?

[DotheBartman]

What the hell could "Please Homer, Don't Hammer 'Em" be about? Homer going mad with a hammer?
And if it's true that it's written by Matt Warburton, is this the first time a writer has written two eps in a row?

No....I know it's happened before with Swartzwelder.

[Mr_Black]

So...expectation high for Kiss kiss,Bang Bangalore? Mine are!

[Drunk Barney]

I don't think TerrorK is being tight with the grading. He simply thinks the Jean era sucks. And he's put a lot of reason behind that

I've seen some of TerrorK's glory year grades, and they way up into high B's and A's. So, remember he is a huge fan of the show, just not of the current Jean!

[TerrorK]

Good idea, no offense TerrorK, but your grades make me sad. Moving them up by 2/3 of a grade, would probably help. Again, no offense, but only one B in the Jean Era, I think that's nitpicking a little too much.

Well... no offense, but the Jean-era makes me sad. I don't think I should have to alter my grades just because people don't think they're being "fair" either. I personally find most people here are far too lenient on the new pieces of tripe the staff is trying to hawk of as Simpsons episodes, and I think it's an insult to the many classic episodes who have earned their prestige to even be consider close to what's being made today. Every Jean episode, even the best of them, has major multiple problems, and are far from A-grade territory. I rarely give B's at all, because they're basically the massive gap between classic episodes and the rest.

Also, if the F-'s and F+'s in my grades bother you and you want to alter my grades in your head, just deem them all as F's. When I grade C- I mean C-... not C+.

No....I know it's happened before with Swartzwelder.

Yep. Here are writers who have written two episodes in a row, production code wise...

John Swartzwelder
7F09: Itchy & Scratchy & Marge
7F10: Bart Gets Hit By a Car

8F02: Treehouse of Horror II - Homer's Nightmare (with Sam Simon & George Meyer)
8F03: Bart the Murderer

9F18: Whacking Day
9F19: Krusty Gets Kancelled

2F11: Bart's Comet
2F12: Homie the Clown

DABF13: I Am Furious (Yellow)
DABF14: The Sweetest Apu

EABF21: Treehouse of Horror XIV
EABF22: The Regina Monologues

George Meyer
8F01: Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington
8F02: Treehouse of Horror II - Homer's Nightmare (with Sam Simon & John Swarzwelder)

Bill Canterbury
1F04: Treehouse of Horror IV - Bart Simpson's Dracula
1F03: Marge on the Lam

David X. Cohen
3F03: Lisa the Vegetarian
3F04: Treehouse of Horror VI - Homer³

Donick Cary
AABF01: Treehouse of Horror IX - Hell Toupee
AABF02: D'oh'in in the Wind

Steve O'Donnell
5F23: The Joy of Sect
5F24: All Singing, All Dancing

[Cartoonnetwork]

That's the main problem I was meaning in a way. "Large Marge" was an instant failure as an idea because Marge getting implants is just far too OOC for her character. The same goes for her taking steroids only a few episodes later too, come to think of it. And Grandpa being a matador just doesn't suit his character either. It's not really the idea itself that's bad, but more the character that the idea is assosciated with not fitting.

That's totally true (not fitting is in fact better than OOC in this examples, cause, like I said, Marge didn't want the breast implants so it's not really so OOC, the partial strip-tease is debatable, though). And I agree with some of your other comments in the same post too. If you continue giving such good reasons I'm going to start hating Jean era too! No, actually, I'm a lot more generous with my grades and I think most of the Jean era stuff is at least entertaining and watchable, and I am not usually more harsh because they are not as good as classic era, but I see you have a point.

And yeah, it's more the character than the idea. Grampa becoming a matador is something he could have done when he was young or it could be one of his fake fantasy flashbacks about the old days, but it really doesn't suit his current character. If I imagine the same plot with a more adequate character like...I don't know, Barney, IMO, it sounds suddenly better. I know he is not an old man but he could be depressed, try assisted suicide and then becoming a matador. It seems like a character that could take some really wacky decissions and change his life without finding it problematic. Even Homer's threatening calls part would come of as a little more decent as long as Barney is not one of his own family. It could probably work for another character.

[Greased Scotsman]

Yep. Here are writers who have written two episodes in a row, production code wise...

(list)

Looking at that list, I think Swartzwelder is the only one that can be properly credited with writing two episodes in a row - in everyone else, one of them was a THOH segment or a clip show, not exactly a 'complete episode'.

[Galalimit]

Man, it amazes me how everyone here insults TerrorK just because he's not an Al Jean ass kisser and a sheep like the rest of you. He grades his episodes in an UN-bias way which is the right way of doing it. Unlike others here who always give "sympathy points" because the "show has been on for 17 years" or "anything Al Jean does it automatically good" and many other bizarre excuses that i've mentioned before.

And I'm almost in complete agreement with all his grades. I've only given 2 or 3 A's since season 10.

[Postmaster]

Who's been insulting him?

[TerrorK]

Yeah. While I appreciate the thoughtfulness, Galalimit, I haven't really been insulted here for a while now personally. Why that is though I have no idea... maybe people here have got used to me and once thought I was a troll who just popped in to bash new episodes... maybe my arguements lately have better better/clearer... maybe people here are starting to feel the same way about the show that I did a few years back... maybe it's a mix of all three, or something else. I dunno.

[Galalimit]

Yeah. While I appreciate the thoughtfulness, Galalimit, I haven't really been insulted here for a while now personally. Why that is though I have no idea... maybe people here have got used to me and once thought I was a troll who just popped in to bash new episodes... maybe my arguements lately have better better/clearer... maybe people here are starting to feel the same way about the show that I did a few years back... maybe it's a mix of all three, or something else. I dunno.

I think the reason your not getting insulted as much anymore is because thanks to you, many posters here are FINALLY starting to "see the light" and are realizing that the Jean Era is not the golden almighty. And alot of that is thanks to you(and a few other posters like Jake. Alot of people here now have "snapped out of it" and now see the Jean era for what it really is.

You've certainaly helped me alot. When I first came here, I was a huge pro-Jean fan and thought he was the simpsons hero, man how humilating that was, I wish I could go back and delete all those posts. Thanks to reading your posts(and a few others like Jake's), I looked back at the Jean era and realized "Man, what was I thinking? These episodes are CRAP" You made me see the light and the reality.

I'm very appreciative of what you've contributed here, so thank you TerrorK.

[TriforceBun]

Now hold on. TerrorK is certainly entitled to his opinion, but the idea that he's convinced others to "see the light" is flawed. While there are some users that give high ratings every week "just because it's the Simpsons" there are just as many that do the opposite because "the new episodes suck no matter what."

I'm not saying the Jean era is all great or all terrible or whatever--but accepting the idea that people are simply rating highly because it's not Scully is wrong. There are many, many posters here who grade on a completely unbiased scale, including Tomacco, DoTheBartman, Channel Surfer, Jafar, and I try to as well (though I will admit I'm a little more lenient with my grades than some). We love some eps, we hate others, and we think plenty more are flawed but watchable. And almost no one groups S13 - 17 as the same quality throughout--personally, I thought 15 had the best GOOD episodes, 14 had the worst BAD ones (out of the Jean era), while 13 and 17 have been very hit-or-miss, and 16 was consistent but unremarkable.

Anyway, my point is that no one who backs up their ratings with good reasoning is wrong. TerrorK won't say I'm wrong for giving The Girl Who Slept Too Little a B+, and I won't say he's wrong for giving My Fair Laddy a C. As long as the review covers the reasons, there's very little objectivity in the eps--whether certain stories, characterizations, and jokes succeed all depends on the person, and who am I to say "No, you didn't enjoy that ep" or "No, you should've liked that joke more"? Heck, if someone gave KTAAR a high grade and gave good reasons as to why, what right do I have to argue? Hm...that'd be an interesting read, actually.

[TheFlandersMan]

Man, it amazes me how everyone here insults TerrorK just because he's not an Al Jean ass kisser and a sheep like the rest of you. He grades his episodes in an UN-bias way which is the right way of doing it. Unlike others here who always give "sympathy points" because the "show has been on for 17 years" or "anything Al Jean does it automatically good" and many other bizarre excuses that i've mentioned before.

Well, I've always rated new episodes as Simpsons episodes, with little or no sympathy. I've said this before. It's always disgusted me to see the average Jean episode with the majority voting 4 and 5/5's....

[DotheBartman]

I think the reason your not getting insulted as much anymore is because thanks to you, many posters here are FINALLY starting to "see the light" and are realizing that the Jean Era is not the golden almighty. And alot of that is thanks to you(and a few other posters like Jake. Alot of people here now have "snapped out of it" and now see the Jean era for what it really is.

You've certainaly helped me alot. When I first came here, I was a huge pro-Jean fan and thought he was the simpsons hero, man how humilating that was, I wish I could go back and delete all those posts. Thanks to reading your posts(and a few others like Jake's), I looked back at the Jean era and realized "Man, what was I thinking? These episodes are CRAP" You made me see the light and the reality.

I'm very appreciative of what you've contributed here, so thank you TerrorK.

So you can't think for yourself. Um....good for you?

Seriously, TriforceBun put it best. And if there's an influx in "Jean-bashing" recently, I'd say it's mostly to do with the general disapointment with season 17, as opposed to some sort of born-again experience for former Jean worshippers (and how many true "Jean worshippers" were there ever, really? Galalimit was ironically one of the only ones). Yes, some people here are becoming more critical lately, but you need to learn to distinguish criticism related to recent trends from criticism of the whole era.

[Drunk Barney]

Actually, only one episode has been given an average of 4-4.5/5 (Moe Baby Blues) in the entire Jean era history. See IAMHOMER's thread, for the other results.

[Postmaster]

Heck, if someone gave KTAAR a high grade and gave good reasons as to why, what right do I have to argue? Hm...that'd be an interesting read, actually.

That's the thing though, I've never seen anyone give a rational well reasoned argument in favour of episodes such as KTAAR, this is potentially a discussion point for that peer pressure thread but that's generally why when people in favour of such episodes are marganialized by other forum members. Obviously there's a point where it just comes down to opinion and you just can't explain why you find something funny to someone who doesn't. But no one I've seen as ever written anything even close to a good argument in favour of such episodes.
On the subject of declining favourabillity towards to the Jean era, I think it's mainly just coming off the Scully era and seeing so many horrible scully era conventions disseapearing and seeing a much more classical philosphy behind the writing of the show was a lot more enjoyable to people. And a lot of people thought that as the seasons progressed the show would improve and improve and improve. But sadly it hasn't really happend, while most people have some quite big prefrences between jean seasons the style and quality has been pretty much the same and the episodes quite interchangeable. So even though the seasons are pretty similar in quality people have been more dissapointed recently because they have higher expectations, because logically if they could do episodes of certain quality in season they should be able to a lot better in season 17. So the hope that the show could get back to classical standards has dimnished and to make things worse (for most people) season 17 has been the worst of the Jean seasons, So for most people it's been a time of accepting the fact that the show won't ever return to classic standards. Which means there's been a lot of bitterness.

[Veryjammy]

While I disagree with many of TerrorK's grades for recent episodes, he is clearly not a troll, and usually tries to provide reasons for his dislikes.

As for recent negativity towards the show, it's because of the quality of the episodes, nothing more, nothing less. No offence to TerrorK, but I doubt it's due to your posts (not that you were claiming it was). And can we please drop this idea of an 'Al Jean bias' because there is no evidence to support it, not when a rate and review can go from the outright negativity of Bonfire Of The Manatees to the positivity of The Girl Who Slept Too Little in a single week. There are certainly members who vote 5/5 nearly every week, but I think you'll find that members who write detailed reviews generally don't.