R&R Homer's Phobia

[Lisa Is A Nut]

I'd give this episode a clear 5/5.
Homer was very in-character, in my opinion. He acted how you'd expect when he realized John was gay. He was in shock, and it was funny when he thought Bart was gay. The jokes were great, and the sequence in the steel mill was hilarious. I liked the ending too, and it's a very memorable episode.

[Tamaki Suoh]

3/5

It certainly had its humorous moments, but Homer's homophobia seemed out of the blue and out of character. He was fine with Karl kissing him in "Simpson and Delilah" after all, and yet here he is an extreme homophobe? Anyway, some of the stereotypes were too obvious and not really brilliant satires or anything, and a lot of the jokes fell flat. Great characterization of Bart, though, and John was a decent one-time character.

[Jeffster]

Absolutely horrible. I think I chuckled twice during the whole thing. Just completely cringe-worthy throughout.

[Simpsons_Fanboy]

4/5 - very funny stuff. Although i will never get why it's called "Homer's phobia" instead of "Homer phobia"

Because if it was entitled "Homer phobia",that would mean -- "fear of Homer".

[Moe Nopoly]

it's one of my favorite episodes so 5/5 is no surprise.

[cars01]

5/5 one of my favorite episodes.

[Starman]

I used to hate this episode. In fact, I used to absolutely despise it with a passion. But I didn't realise it was only being satirical, and was actually pointing out homophobia until I listened to the commentary. I just can't distinguish that type of satire from clear insults without being told, because I personally think it's really hard to tell. To you, it probably seems so utterly fucking obvious, but it just isn't to me.

Now that I've realised that they weren't discriminating gays, but defending them, I've come to respect it a whole lot more.

But I still think Homer was very, very homophobic in this episode, and it was hard to watch at times. They can still get the message across without being too explicit and harsh with the insults. That's probably the only problem I have with it now, but I still don't particularly like this episode because it's just too hard to watch at times. If it was less than half as harsh as it was, this might be one of my favourite episodes. And as I said, I do respect it - a lot.

As an actual episode - 7.5/10.
My personal rating - 7/10.

[Nebuchanezzar]

You've probably still got me ignored or whatever, but in the interests of increasing the love for Homer's Phobia, I'll ask anyway. Starman, what exactly are the explicity and harsh insults that you (presumably) feel went too far in the episode that weren't nessecary for getting its point across?

[homer2121]

I liked this episode. It's very memorable.

5/5

[The Law-Talkin' Guy]

So funny. Love them dancing in the living room, and the pin pals jacket in the store... Classic and funny.

[Starman]

You know what, I think I change my mind on this episode (again). I just really don't like it, I never have, and I never will. It feels like a Season 11 episode.

The main problem with it is that it's far, far too different from anything I've ever seen on The Simpsons. It is just too different. I'm all for the show trying new things, etc, but was this really a great way to start? A whole episode about Homer blatantly insulting Homosexuals? It's just not the kind of thing I'd ever want see on a brilliant show like this, if only for Season 8 prior.

Call it satire, call it whatever the hell you want, but it's still full of pointless and relentless gay-bashing on Homer's behalf that can't be overshadowed by the "message" they were trying to get across. When you say "it's just Satire, they didn't mean it" sure, that lessens the episode's blow, but come on, I found this episode absolutely shocking for a show like this.

It's full of awful characterisation - like Bart saying "there's just something about 3 guys...alone in the woods. Just seems kinda gay." ...I've never heard him say anything like that previously on the show. It's not that I have a problem with what he said, but it just isn't how his character has shown to act before in earlier seasons, which is just furthers my opinion that Season 8 is far worse than Season 9 - which as a season, didn't have Ned's character being utterly stripped of everything it took 7 seasons to build, it didn't have easily the worst, most boring full Itchy and Scratchy episode ever made, it didn't have a character (who had an entire episode based on him) being painfully electrocuted after working so hard in life ("hahahaha!!!! he gote elekktrokuted!!!11! I now place this epsiode in my top 10 off all time!!!!111!!!!11"), it didn't have Bart selling his own dog, and then stealing it from a blind man, it didn't have a whole episode of Homer being animated different, which was clearly just used as another opportunity to work on animation styles they still haven't mastered after 8 whole seasons, and to simply point out how things look when you're completely stoned ("its a visyually surreal marsterpeice!!!!11"), and it certainly didn't have an 8 year old girl dating a bully.

I know my opinion of this is shared by literally no one here, but I'm glad there are at least some people who feel the same way:

4. HOMER'S PHOBIA
(Season 8; writer: Ron Hauge; TX: 16/02/97)

What's always been great about Homer is that while he's incredibly stupid, his stupidity is always harmless and non-threatening. Even in "The Cartridge Family", when Homer buys a gun, you know he's never actually going to use it and doesn't mean any harm. That's why this episode leaves such a nasty taste in the mouth, because here he's quite simply a bastard. The point of the episode is that Homer is shown that homophobia is wrong, but to do this he has to spend most of the episode being nasty and unlikeable. His adventures with Moe are simply horrible, and that's basically not what you want to see. The denouncement is faintly unsettling too - seemingly Homer only accepts John when he saves Bart, rather than learning to like him thanks to his personality. It also contains a series of sequences that are seemingly supposed to be "delightfully politically incorrect" but are in fact fairly sneery. This is a side of the show we'd not seen before, nor particularly wanted to see.

^ Which basically sums up everything I've ever tried to say about this episode. Well this is a side of the show I'd not seen before, nor particularly wanted to see. Sorry, but I give this episode a 2/10 - simply because for me, it signified the beginning of the end of what used to be the greatest show to bask in Televisions warm fuzzy glow - The Simpsons.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Does someone else want to take this one before I take a bite into it?

[Starman]

Go ahead Neb, but because you immaturely re-posted that last post to show all your little OT buddies, I no longer feel inclined to even pretend to give a shit.

[Mr_Scorpion]

Call it satire, call it whatever the hell you want, but it's still full of pointless and relentless gay-bashing on Homer's behalf that can't be overshadowed by the "message" they were trying to get across. When you say "it's just Satire, they didn't mean it" sure, that lessens the episode's blow, but come on, I found this episode absolutely shocking for a show like this.

I have to take issue with this. Satire, by definition, deals with things that are unpleasant. Satire calls attention to a problem by exaggerating it to the point of ridiculousness. It's been a driving force on The Simpsons since day one, and Homer's Phobia isn't much different. Mr. Burns isn't just a mean capitalist, he's completely evil. Itchy & Scratchy aren't just another violent cartoon, they're the goriest thing imaginable. So it follows that Homer isn't just a homophobe, he's the biggest homophobic idiot possible.

That, and the writing is much more clever and witty than you're giving it credit for. Homer's not just spewing homophobic rhetoric randomly. Everything he says is an exaggeration of something that real people (read: morons) actually believe. And since Homer isn't all that bright, the message of the episode becomes "people who are homophobic are also people who are idiots." I don't feel the message is overshadowed at all, particularly in a satirical context. His viewpoint is being mercilessly satirized for the entire episode.

So you have every right to dislike this episode, but you can't just write off the fact that it's clearly intended as a satire. Like most of the Simpsons' classic years, it's completely satirical, and satires are rarely (and shouldn't be) pleasant 100% of the time.

[Nebuchanezzar]

It certainly had its humorous moments, but Homer's homophobia seemed out of the blue and out of character. He was fine with Karl kissing him in "Simpson and Delilah" after all, and yet here he is an extreme homophobe?

I don't think that when Karl kissed Homer that it had any homosexual undertones to it. Might I also add that Simpson and Delilah and Homer's Phobia had completely different purposes - Simpson & Delilah aimed to highlight and explore Homer as a success story and to look at the outcomes on his family in addition to the dynamic between him and a new age assistant. On the other hand Homer's Phobia aimed to mock homphobia via the use of Homer (just an average everyman who happens to be a homphobe). Slightly different characterisations are surely to be expected.

The main problem with it is that it's far, far too different from anything I've ever seen on The Simpsons. It is just too different.

What exactly is different about it? Apart from the original content (which I mention further down the page ), I really can't think of anything...

I'm all for the show trying new things, etc, but was this really a great way to start?

See, I don't think you are ok with The Simpsons trying new things. But that's a story for another day.

A whole episode about Homer blatantly insulting Homosexuals? It's just not the kind of thing I'd ever want see on a brilliant show like this, if only for Season 8 prior.

But that wasn't the point of the whole episode! The point was to satirise their opinions, not to make a festival out of gay bashing or whatever.

Call it satire, call it whatever the hell you want, but it's still full of pointless and relentless gay-bashing on Homer's behalf that can't be overshadowed by the "message" they were trying to get across. When you say "it's just Satire, they didn't mean it" sure, that lessens the episode's blow, but come on, I found this episode absolutely shocking for a show like this.

Mr_Scorpion has already covered most of this, so I'll try not to repeat anything. Instead, I take issue with a couple of specifics that you mentioned here.

Firstly, you say that the episode is "full of pointless and relentless gay-bashing." I wouldn't argue against it being relentless, but pointless? Hardly. The point is clear - to satirise. If I elaborate any further I'll be repeating what has already been said, and it always pisses me off when NHC members repeat or barge into arguments so I'll but out of this point.

Secondly, you say that this gay-bashing cannot be overshadowed by the message they were trying to get across. I disagree. Since it was abundantly clear that the writers don't agree with what Homer was saying (and you conceded this above), the insults given out by Homer are eclipsed by their message by default. The writers are essentially telling you that they don't agree with homphobic insults through the sheer level of hyperbole used, and as such there's very little reason or way for anyone to think otherwise. I can call it whatever I want, or satire, because I'm essentially being told that's what it is. Anyone who still takes offense at it as if it's an opinion of the show is missing the bleeding point. Anyway, I'm getting slightly off track. Everyone likes lousy metaphors right? Ok. Well picture this. Bill Oakley & Josh Weinstein are in a 4x4. Ahead of them is a rugged sandpit of "HOMOPHOBIA!!!". Bill & Josh drive their 4x4 all over that horrible sandpit. No-one likes the contents of the sandpit, certainly, but Bill & Josh drive over that sandpit repeatedly until it's flat and dead. They have driven over that rugged sandpit and flattened "HOMPHOBIA!!!" Homer's Phobia is not the sandpit itself, but rather the way that Bill & Josh drove over that pit of sand. Your job is not to judge the sand, but to judge the way they rode over it.

If you take issue with Homer's Phobia because of the material that it's satirising, then your issue is with its content and not with the episode itself. So stop bashing the episode and start bashing homphobia, please. For the love of God, Starman. Please.

It's full of awful characterisation - like Bart saying "there's just something about 3 guys...alone in the woods. Just seems kinda gay." ...I've never heard him say anything like that previously on the show.

Mmmm, I've always had a problem with that comment as well. Since Bart's meant to be completely oblivious to Homer thinking that he's gay, it seems to me to be a bit of a contradiction, in a way. Bart's sarcastic and subversive, certainly, but in this case he's not attacking nor subverting anything. Instead, he's simply making a quick passing comment that serves no purpose and as such comes off sounding like nothing more than a not-so-witty sitcom zinger. However,

It's not that I have a problem with what he said, but it just isn't how his character has shown to act before in earlier seasons,

I don't believe this to be true. Bart has said

didn't have Ned's character being utterly stripped of everything it took 7 seasons to build,

Untrue. The end of Hurricane Neddy shows Ned returning to his former self after a fairly hefty explosion. Everything that was there is still there.

it didn't have easily the worst, most boring full Itchy and Scratchy episode ever made

I'd agree that it was probably the worst and most boring I&S related episode. Certainly not as bad as you're making it out to be. If anything, the metaanalysis offered in the episode takes it above the pile of poo that you're making it out to be.

it didn't have a character (who had an entire episode based on him) being painfully electrocuted after working so hard in life ("hahahaha!!!! he gote elekktrokuted!!!11! I now place this epsiode in my top 10 off all time!!!!111!!!!11"),

I don't think anyone reacts in that way to the electroction, and in any case an unevidenced ad hominem attack does nothing to advance your flimsy arguments concerning season 8.

it didn't have Bart selling his own dog, and then stealing it from a blind man,

Probably not a high point for Bart's character but then I've always maintained that The Simpsons would be an awfully boring TV show if only the positive sides to characters were shown. I dare say that you, Starman, would enjoy The Simpsons if everything remained static, if nothing ever changed, if characters and episodes were written in the same form every week and if no provocative satire or anything remotely daring was ever attempted? There's nothing wrong with that (well, actually there is, but I digress), it's just showing that you watch The Simpsons for vastly different reasons to...the rest of us. Whereas normal viewers certainly don't like seeing Bart steal a dog, they can certainly accept the fact that he did it. And anyway, that actions wasn't even that bad considering Bart did it to get back something he loved. Damn you Bart! How could you!?!?!?

it didn't have a whole episode of Homer being animated different, which was clearly just used as another opportunity to work on animation styles they still haven't mastered after 8 whole seasons,

Is this a BAD thing?

and to simply point out how things look when you're completely stoned ("its a visyually surreal marsterpeice!!!!11"),

I thought it looked pretty cool, and it took up a whole, oooh, 1.5 minutes of that episode?

and it certainly didn't have an 8 year old girl dating a bully.

Lisa never liked him for being a bully though, which renders this argument void.

What's always been great about Homer is that while he's incredibly stupid, his stupidity is always harmless and non-threatening.

Isn't this a little untrue? Homer's anger is probably very rarely thought out and planned so much as it is provoked and spontaneous, but he's certainly still a fairly harmful and threatening character. The physical intimidation of his kids and the random and violent outbursts are pretty solid staples of the show. On a non-physical level he can be pretty harmful too. Look at Much Apu About Nothing for instance. He's still being spontaneous and unthoughtful (he only stops his crusade after he gives it some thought, after all) which leads to pretty dire outcomes for Springfield. None of it is physical here, but he's just as harmful as he's ever been. Homer is perhaps one of the most destructive and harmful characters on the show even - lucky there are people around him to hold things together (Marge, Lisa...)

Even in "The Cartridge Family", when Homer buys a gun, you know he's never actually going to use it and doesn't mean any harm.

That's probably a stronger point to use in relation to Homer's Phobia. Homer doesn't mean any harm, as opposed to not causing harm. But that's untrue as well, because Homer means harm pretty damn often.

That's why this episode leaves such a nasty taste in the mouth, because here he's quite simply a bastard. The point of the episode is that Homer is shown that homophobia is wrong, but to do this he has to spend most of the episode being nasty and unlikeable.

Well, yes, and it would be pretty hard to write a satire of a subject without making them seem nasty and unlikable. As Mr_Scorpion said, that's how satire works. The media isn't likable and friendly in Homer Badman or Radio Bart after all, are they? You'd be hard pressed to find an episode of The Simpsons where the object of a satire is likable and friendly. You'll probably find one or two (Itchy & Scratchy & Marge comes up as one example), but they'll be vastly outnumbered.

His adventures with Moe are simply horrible, and that's basically not what you want to see.

Pretty subjective, but I've always thought that part of the episode was a good piece of satire in itself. It's the zinger that Bart said put in a much more competent way.

The denouncement is faintly unsettling too - seemingly Homer only accepts John when he saves Bart, rather than learning to like him thanks to his personality.

Well, no. Homer takes to John because of his personality - the personality that drove the man to save Homer and Bart despite Homer's idiocy.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Now, that was just a lot of quote debating. I think that it's time I pass a judgement on the episode.

It's a fine episode. The content of the satire is not pleasant, but it's not shocking in the least like Starman is making it out to be. Certainly nothing that anyone who can deal with a PG rated episode can't deal with. It is, or was at least, a prevalent issue that could have used some attention. The way homophobia is mocked isn't new or exciting but it's certainly funny as hell and makes its point crystal clear - homophobia is pointless, cruel, contradictory and moronic. In that regard then, the episode is a resounding success. If you're of the opinion that Simpsons characters must remain steady and never cross the line to make a point (and several NHC members are, it appears) then the episode probably isn't for you. If you're a flexible person who has a sense of humour and doesn't get uppity about writers actually using characters for events other than hugs at the end of episodes then you'll be fine with the episode. The way the characters, specifically Homer, are used is pretty razor sharp. As I said, the point of the satire here is crystal clear thanks to some sharp writing that doesn't shy away from making it's point. Homer is portrayed as a horrible homophobe because that's the object of the satire, and while it may not be pleasant to see Homer acting that way that's the way things go in those circles unfortunately. You know, homophobes are horrible and the episode does well to write Homer as a horrible homphobe. What it also does is not shy away from things at the end. The episode takes a break from common Simpson habit by not putting the metaphorical icing on the top. Instead, Homer is left as homophobic as he ever was. Pleasant? Once again, perhaps not but the point of the episode is crystallised even more. The people who the episode points out are a group of dimwitted buffoons are unlikely to change their ill-gotten opinions of gays because, well, they're idiots. There's no other explanation. For someone (who would usually be a Homerish type person) to actually believe this stuff requires them to be a bit thick, and it's unlikely that anything short of a sudden IQ increase will change their opinion of these things. The episode doesn't shy away from hammering this last point home to the viewer, thankfully, and it's what makes the episode such a competent one.

Of course, there are problems. The whole reindeer threat seems like an unneeded, tacked on adventure that probably could have been settled in some other way. In any case, it takes a vastly different tone to the rest of the episode which makes the whole thing seem a little out of place. In addition some of the writing does occasionally feel a bit sitcommy and unrealistic. Why bother having Bart spew out that zinger line when the episode can do so much better? That whole steel mill thing could have been said by Bart but the writers instead took it up a level, and for good cause because it was bloody hilarious! I can't help but feel that the "three men in the woods" and "came out of the closet" lines couldn't have been said in the same way. They're funny, sure, but a little too unrealistic.

Fortunately, those problems don't distract from the competent and downright hilariousness of the episode. The animation and sound are fine too. I give it an A

[Starman]

Okay, after that extremely long, detailed, and interesting post Neb (yours too, Mr_Scorpian), I pretty much know everything about Homer's Phobia now, most of it being stuff I didn't know before, and for everything I believe in, I should actually be praising this episode instead of hating it. While learning more about it has obviously made understand more about what it was trying to do, I still don't like that they used Homer as an outlet. It just made him far too unlikable in this episode, but I guess, as you said, that was the whole point of this episode. Now that you've pointed out that they tried to make the homophobia so extreme that you'd be either stupid, blind, or both to not realise they aren't being serious, I've realised that they tried to make the homophobia so extreme that you'd be either stupid, blind, or both to not realise they aren't being serious. Before, I felt that while the homophobia was still extreme as ever, it didn't entirely convince me what they were trying to do with it. I will have to watch this episode again, but as I said, I carelessly lost Disc 3 of my Season 8 DVD, so I'll buy the DVD again soon.

As you said about 'Homer's Enemy', these two episodes seem to be so amazingly complex, and it's hard for me to fully understand them. And I do bash Homophobia. I hate the thought of people hating and bashing gay people, it sickens me (ain't got much to cheer about now, do you cheerprincess), and I find it literally disgusting that some people can be so astoundingly stupid when it comes to that. And I guess the main reason I was bashing this episode, was for that reason - I thought it was actually being blatantly homophobic, which I've now realised is something they just wouldn't do on The Simpsons.

As for 'Hurricane Neddy', I guess I just hate change. That's just me. I guess I just care a little too much about the show, and I just feel that Ned is such an utterly important character that I get upset when they do something really huge with him, because to me, it feels like they've taken something away from him. 'Hurricane Neddy' just has something about it that I can't really get into - I feel that Ned's insanity could've been done just a bit better. While that "just a bit better" might not seem important, it is to me when they're dealing with such an important character like Ned Flanders.

[The Law-Talkin' Guy]

Good episode. The "flaming" joke is one of the funniest things Homer has ever said.

[cyrus64]

i dont get why pepole like it so much i found it prety boring great peformence by john waters

[Jeffster]

Good episode. The "flaming" joke is one of the funniest things Homer has ever said.

Or possibly the least funny thing he's ever said.

[sung]

I'll start off with the bad things first so I can have rooms for thought to write about the other part... I don't know about you, but I felt that Homer's fear for homosexuals, like, came out of nowhere and was very surprising to see (in slightly bad way) and disappointed me earlier. It kind of broke the continuity since Homer wasn't acting alarmed on Karl (or he was not aware that Karl was gay). And how did Marge know 100% that John was gay only based on his interests and preferences? But that's where the episode goes uphill...
Again, I don't know about you, but the good part of Homer's characteristic in this episode is that Homer cared for Bart and some of his stereotypical acts later on in the episode came out of his parental love. (It would be bad if he had bad intentions for Bart, but in his view, he didn't approve homosexuality, so it can be justified as parental love... for Homer) He may have been wrong, but his intentions were right. The episode also satirized on Homer on how some of us can be stereotypical and malicious on gays--without being preachy as Homer appreciates John later. Hilarious, and somewhat touchy. Some may complain on Homer's behavior was out of whack and writers turned him as a homophobic, stereotypical character--it's not. The episode itself actually lampooned the homophobias by portraying John, the nice, easygoing and perfectly friendly person being (indirectly) harmed by Homer, who has little understanding and somewhat ignorant. Okay, enough with the controversy...
Other than that, the episode was downright hilarious with great gags ("We work hard, and we play hard", Hawaiian Shirt, Bart's assessment of hunting or Bart staring at Laramie cigarrette comercial for hours) which makes it hard for me to hate even if I tried. I believe the episode also won an Emmy. Plot was done nicely, Homer's character was questionable but he did have his love for son, and... the episode itself is just hilarious.
A-/A

[Mr Black]

Great reviews there everyone. Yep, anyway this episode is a very unique one. The only one to tackle homosexuality and the whole collectors shop thing at the beggining was great. The steel mill is classic and the ending is probably the best one in any simpsons episode (excluding lemon of troy and elviaje)

A

[Kiyosuki]

This episode had Homer being a foolish, ignorant jerk but it worked because in the context of the episode's story, it helped to show the point of it. His reason was idiotic but genuine feeling, and by the end it felt like the episode did a pretty good job of showing how foolish homophobia is. I sort of felt that's what was lacking in the recent Mypods and Boomsticks, where Homer's reason for why he acted paranoid was kind of flakey and had no build up, and by the end I felt like it was basically a big excuse for Homer hijinks.

And Apple jokes.

[Fox Executive]

A. This episode is kinda underrated. It makes fun of gays, but defends them at the same time and that makes it incredibly funny.

[pecken]

5/5. One of my favorites.

"Bart, where did you get that shirt?"
"I dunno, came out of the closet."

[Mr Black]

Bump and a half.

This is another risque season 8 episode, this one deals with an issue never raised that often in the simpsons. 3 Gays of the condo did something sort of similar to this 6 years later, but that bombed big time. So many funny moments, the steel mill was classic, and moe has some funny words to say about it.

"Homer, the entire steel industry is gay".

[The Foot]

Homer's Phobia isn't one of my all time favorites, but it is enjoyable and does have some very funny moments, including the steel mill scene. 4/5 B+

[hughes]

Excellent episode, makes a good point without being too preachy and manages to make fun of the people they're defending

Steel mill scene--classic

Bart's hunting line--I thought it was great...and I hunt*

Oh, and hate to bring up a debate from over a year ago that was between two banned members--but regarding the link Starman posted, I refuse to take somebody who put "Bart vs. Australia" in his bottom five episodes seriously!

*I know a lot of opinions on hunting will probably be different than mine, and that's great. however, I'm NOT interested in debating anyone on the subject here, so please don't go looking for a fight. Thanks!

[Jesse Pinkman]

a great episode, a classic, but it is kinda dull at some parts, but what the heck, 4/5

[elliott87]

pretty good 4/5

[Granto]

I always struggle to love an episode when Homer is so unlikeable throughout it but I understand that he is used as satire so I still find myself enjoying it overall.

Waters brings in a great performance and Bart's naivety at what Homer is going through is played perfectly.

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3.5 rounded to a 3/5