Round 2 Bracket 13

[Nebuchanezzar]

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, The (N64)

V

Super Mario 64 (N64)

[Dental Plan!]

Wow....two of the greatest games of all time.....meeting already? Ugh, I suppose I'll give SM64 my vote, because of it's revolutionary-ness. Oh, and the fact that it's a bloody good game.

[Kiyosuki]

What is with this round? Its like the clashing of games you can't decide through and through. lol

This is by a hair of a margin but I'm voting for OoT. Why? Well it was revolutionary in its own way but I admit that SM64 was a little more revolutionary. In a lot of ways it pretty much laid the groundwork down for what a 3D game is in modern terms. But...Ocarina of Time I think was the fuller game. It was one you really couldn't put down. SM64 for me was good in doses, but after a certain amount of time I just had to put it down. Where as with Ocarina it was hard to put down.

Maybe it all comes down to atmosphere, since SM was so basic in atmosphere, and in that case maybe its a little more of my personal opinion than usual, but I think OoT deserves it.

Really this is one of those brackets that really depends just a tiny bit more on personal preference than usual, because I think in terms of everything else they're almost equal.

[deshem]

there's no denying zelda's excellence but super mario 64 is... super mario 64. 'nuff said.

[-Bart-]

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is 1 of the best game for the n64. it's almost perfect in every way. man, im regreting selling my N64 4 years ago.

[Sniper Squirrel]

This is pretty much our equivalent of Sophie's choice, but I ultimately went eith SM64

[boogie down mikel]

there should have been reseeding
damn you!

[bovine_university]

Yeah, this has not been a fun set of choices (for any of the rounds this week in fact). Either of these games could have taken it all in the end, but they meet now and one must go. Kind of like in the Tetris/Pac-Man battle, for me this is another case of one is more revolutionary (Mario 64), while the other I feel is just the better game (Zelda). Mario 64 managed to get everything right in adding a new dimension to Mario's world, between the excellent exploration use of the new space and the clean and responsive controls. The freedom of what worlds to visit and go to was also very liberating and fun too. Ocarina of Time however, was a terrific story filled with great secrets, a polished battle system, and the always welcome set of challenging and innovative dungeons.

Which one to pick? Well, as important a game as Mario 64 was, I do find it has a few nagging flaws behind it, namely the use of two water levels (I've never liked water levels), and the fact that you only need 70 stars out of 120 to finish the game, making the game feel a little short if you're not careful. Meanwhile, I just find Ocarina of Time to be a much more well-balanced, lengthy, and polished game, with each new dungeon more atmospheric than the last (well except maybe for that water dungeon, what were they thinking?). So in the end, the tough choice ends with me choosing Ocarina of Time.

[blueguy]

I gotta go with Zelda. while Mario was great, it was an experiment in turning a franchise into 3D gaming and Zelda pretty much took what they learned from Mario and made an even better game.

[Adamm R)))]

Whoa, clash of the titans. I'm going with Mario. Both games are good, but I never got into Zelda too much.

[erock]

I was never a big zelda fan. to tell the truth, I never knew what I was doing in those games.

I think both series in general are about user-friendlyness. in other words, if you start playing either one, you have an easier time with mario.

[sacrelicious]

This pretty much describes my thoughts:
there's no denying zelda's excellence but super mario 64 is... super mario 64. 'nuff said.

In the end Super Mario 64 is in my top 2 of Mario games (SMB 3 being the other), and Ocarina of Time isn't in my top 3 of Zelda games.

[Tab]

I like Super Mario 64. Kept me entertained.
I also like Zelda, but i enjoyed SM more than i enjoyed Zelda.

[General Jack D. Ripper]

Never got into LOZ games as much as I would have liked to. Kiyo struck a chord with me saying that its better in doses because of a too basic and even disjointed format, but still. It is Super Mario 64.

[Drew]

Tough one, but Zelda was definetly the better game.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Tough one, but Mario was definitely the better, more revolutionary and longer lasting game.

[re4p3r1]

these are two great games. shame that one of them will be eliminated

[Magnum]

for it's time - Super Mario 64

today - Ocarina of Time

[billi vanilli]

oot by a fucking mile. cmon dudes. it is the greatest video game ever made.

[H Thompson]

Mario 64 didn't seem like anything special to me, I guess such a big 3d world was pretty revloutionary at the time, but playing it a few years after the fact as I did, meant it didn't have much impact. OOT was a lot more memorable to me.

[Mike Scully]

oot by a fucking mile. cmon dudes. it is the greatest video game ever made.

yep

[Nebuchanezzar]

I disagree. At times (based on my limited experience with OoT), I found the game somewhat tedious. I cannot say the same for Mario 64, with even the water levels always seeming to be well balanced.

[Paul]

I think they're both extremely overrated, they revolutionised their genre, sure, but they weren't brilliantly executed. Ocarina of Time just beats Mario 64, and don't get me wrong, I enjoy them, I just don't enjoy the tedious praise.

[Kiyosuki]

I think they're a little more deserving of the praise than some other games considering they were games that basically transformed their entire respective series'.

Playing Mario 64 now, its not as big a deal as it was when first playing it of course but a lot has happened since then.

[Spartan]

i vote for a re-seed, but rules is rules.

ocarina

[TheForbiddenDonut]

First time coming into one of these threads without expecting to be at all familiar with the games being discussed. Lo and behold, I've played both of these games several times and the winner is clearly 'Ocarina of Time'. 'Mario 64' is easy, short, and after beating it twice I haven't come back to it. 'Ocarina of Time' is fun, challenging, longer, full of hidden stuff, and I just absolutely adore the music. So yeah, 'Ocarina of Time' rules.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I hereby declare that those who are not regular voters should have their votes stricken from the record!

[H Thompson]

I think they're both extremely overrated, they revolutionised their genre, sure, but they weren't brilliantly executed. Ocarina of Time just beats Mario 64, and don't get me wrong, I enjoy them, I just don't enjoy the tedious praise.

Yeah it seems to me with M64 AND OOT people are acting like they were more revoloutionary than they actually are, I mean M64 and Tomb Raider 1 clashed with each other as being the first the big fully 3d 3rd person adventures, but then the stream of games that followed was coming anyway, and it was TR1 that probably had the bigger influence on the games industry. By the time OOT came about, what it was doing was getting fairly common place, so I don't see why people are acting like it was a stunning technical achiement. It was just an excellent game, that had lots of ideas that were handled brilliantly.

Still quite a little way from perfect though.

[Nebuchanezzar]

How exactly did Tomb Riader have a greater influence on the video games industry? How can that be translated into a fault that works against Mario 64, and a strength that works for Tomb Raider?

[kupomog]

I dunno about faults for SM64 or anything pertaining to this here contest, but TR was definitely very revolutionary and influential when it came out. In general I've seen many debates in the past as to which game was more of an influence with 3D gaming since they came out at the same time, and it has more or less always been split. Some people say SM64, some people say TR, and they all have great reasons for it.

TR was pretty fresh with its graphics depicting historical/realistic environments, creative soundtrack that always kicked in at the most breathtaking moments, cinematic style of storytelling, and flat out awesome (but kind of frustrating) PoP-ish style gameplay with the puzzles and exploring.. It was especially important in the case of the PC. 3D third-person action/adventure+platformer...there were a few games that tried it, but none were fully realized like TR and there wasn't really something on that scale for PC or even PS and it basically kickstarted those kind of games in the PC world.

Plus there's this that I stole from some GameSpot article:

In addition, Tomb Raider had a strong impact on the PC hardware industry. When game players witnessed what id Software was able to accomplish with GLQuake, they demanded that other games receive an upgrade for 3D hardware-accelerated visuals. Tomb Raider was one of the first games to receive a hardware acceleration patch developed by 3dfx Interactive for use with its Voodoo cards. Many jaws dropped to the floor when game players saw the new, enhanced version of Tomb Raider - a version that showcased much cleaner textures and smoother edges. Indeed, Tomb Raider helped fuel the fire of an industry that would grow at an alarming rate.

Anyway this round is more or less equal but it really comes down to personal opinions on said games. Influx of voters is always funny to see in these kinds of pairings.

And I'm still really annoyed that TR went up against Tetris >:

[Nebuchanezzar]

What I was originally going to try to get at, although I couldn't quite get the words right, was that Tomb Raider was influential over a whole other genre to Mario 64. Granted, it's a genre that seems to have more games under its belt than the platforming genre does, but I personally don't believe that's really a weakness of Mario 64. H Thompson seemed to be saying that Tomb Raider had more influence for that very reason (although I may have misunderstood him).

[H Thompson]

How exactly did Tomb Riader have a greater influence on the video games industry? How can that be translated into a fault that works against Mario 64, and a strength that works for Tomb Raider?
I didn't say it was a fault, just merely stating an observation that I think people are oversating it's impact and influence. I didn't think I did say one was better than the other (though I do prefer TR)

[skittlebrau]

I'm the one that nominated Tomb Raider, so yeah :(

[Nebuchanezzar]

Loser.

I guess the good thing about this bracket, is that most people seem to be pleased if either game goes through. They're both deserving. That's in direct contrast to the other bracket where I was on edge (the Banjo-Kazooie one) where I would have cried for days on end had Banjo-Kazooie had not gone through.

[Channel Surfer]

Regardless of whether either of these games are as revolutionary or innovative as often claimed, there's still a lot that they do right and better than most of the subsequent games in their respective series, and frankly most other games still. Mario 64's minimalist plot and emphasis on letting curiosity and discovery drive many of its events still make it loom largely over just about everything else in its genre. Ocarina of Time meanwhile is still the most tightly paced of the 3D Zeldas (even if IMO not the best) and probably still contains overall the best dungeons of the bunch, among other strong achievements. Most of their dating is minor technical stuff. The graphics and (maybe) sound for both games, the camera for Mario 64, and maybe Ocarina's simple if still perhaps compelling storyline are the only parts of the games that haven't held up as well as I'd like.

Voted for Ocarina here, though the difference is negligible.

[Ryan]

I went with SM64. When it came along, we hadnt seen anything like it, and i remember just being amazed the first time i played it!

[Nebuchanezzar]

I remember going over a friends house every weekend just so we could team up and finish Mario 64 together. I was good at certain parts (the heavy platforming, tick tock clock type stars) whereas my friend was good at the parts I found tedious, and also helped me finish Goldeneye. We were a team, and two nerds were better than one.

Ahh memories.

[Kiyosuki]

I know its late but Tomb Raider really did have a massive effect on gaming for the reasons Kupo said. The thing is, is we take it for granted now but when Tomb Raider and SM64 came out even in the PC field there was next to nothing that had you control a character in a 3D environment having to interact with that environment nearly as much as TR. Its really one of the first games that took full advantage of the fact it was in 3D, in other words it was a lot more than just an aesthetic quality or something that was still kind of "flat" feeling.

They had a similar impact I guess, but if I could personally differentiate TR and SM64's acomplishment, TR is more well known for its environments and how you have to interact with it, and SM64 is a little more about how Mario himself was. Like how much they changed him and reinvented him to fit the 3D environment really well.

96-98 was quite a time for 3D breakthroughs. You had SM64, OoT, MGS, TR, FFVII all in that time frame.

[billi vanilli]

I hereby declare that those who are not regular voters should have their votes stricken from the record!
if you're serious about this then you can go suck a fart

i just recently unblocked this forum and i didnt even know this was going on

[Makoto]

SM64 got my vote, because try as I might, I can't get into Zelda games. *dodges flying objects*

[My Little Needle]

no offense to zelda but clearly sm64 is the best game of all time

[Stackhouse]

if super mario can beat OOT, is there anything coming after this that can possibly beat it?