Shawne Merriman Suspended for Steroid Use (Split from NFL Thread) [Archive]

Dead Nigga Storage

10-22-2006, 08:06 PM

haven't i ALWAYS used lowercase letters, except when capitalizing a word for emphasis?

and merriman suspended for 4 games for steroids violation. roarke is right. that should be the biggest story in football right now, but i guess steroids is just "a baseball problem" and a "baseball stigma". fuck that. one of the best defensive players in the game, and he was busted for steroids. 4 games is to leniant.

gravymaster

10-22-2006, 08:09 PM

and merriman suspended for 4 games for steroids violation. roarke is right. that should be the biggest story in football right now, but i guess steroids is just "a baseball problem" and a "baseball stigma". fuck that. one of the best defensive players in the game, and he was busted for steroids. 4 games is to leniant.
It should be FOR LIFE. Same with baseball.

Mayor Quimby

10-22-2006, 09:55 PM

It should be FOR LIFE. Same with baseball.

So the Yankees are going to be looking for a new first basemen? Sorry I couldn't resist, but I completely agree with you, just kick them out.

kevin

10-22-2006, 09:56 PM

yeah, disgraceful. at least a year.

box elder

10-23-2006, 06:22 AM

but i guess steroids is just "a baseball problem" and a "baseball stigma".

the reason it's primarily a baseball problem is because in the nfl (for the most part) people get caught when they do it. in baseball there're a ton of dudes who are very obviously on something, and yet still playing. this does more to help football's image on the steroid issue than hurt it, imo.

but this story really does fucking piss me off. merriman was one of my favorite players in the league. what a douchebag.

:bang:

10-23-2006, 06:49 AM

quit discussing baseball in the nfl thread. what are you guys sawx fans?

they love merriman around here, and the skins are in the toilet. football talk around dc sure will be fun =/

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 08:33 AM

jets are 4-3, and gave you a scare last time around. i'd call that improvement.

and i get how this "helps" the NFL, but it probably would have been for the best if NO ONE tested positive, because football steroid problems have been such a back-burner issue forever, and there wasn't exactly a flurry of articles discussing the lack of NFL steroid suspensions in recent times that would make someone suspicious. it's just that merriman has quickly become one of the biggest names in the game, and it isn't HALF the story that palmeiro was and isn't half the story that someone like ryan howard WOULD be if he tested positive. we can sit here all day and talk about our beliefs that 80% of baseball (caminiti) or 50% (canseco), but frankly, it's all bullshit, and the steroid problem is a quickly fading one in the game because of the reaction to it. i just think this merriman thing is being way under-done. should be a top ESPN story, especially since he's been their love child since last year.

box elder

10-23-2006, 08:42 AM

i disagree that it's a bigger story than palmeiro*. marriman is in his second year and even if we assume that he's been juiced the entire time, they still caught him relatively quickly. palmeiro was already way up on the list for a ton of batting records before he was exposed. if merriman cleans up and can't perform, he'll fade out of the annals of football and be simply a steroid story to scare the kiddies and nothing more. that being said, i really hope he does clean up and can still perform well, because like i said before i really do like the guy. he's a terp fakristsake.

*after re-reading your post, i realize you never said it should be a bigger story. but i also don't think it necessarily deserves the same level of attention that story got for the reasons stated above.

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 08:54 AM

i didn't say it should be bigger than palmeiro, that's why i compared it specifically to howard as well. obviously, that part is speculation, but it would be asinine to assume that this would be a bigger story, or even comparable. palmeiro grew up in a different era. if merriman had played back in the later 80s into the mid-90s, he probably would have gone much longer without being exposed. everyone has talked up merriman since day one, and how huge of a player he is...DRoy, and already a major impact star this year. cleaned up act or not, it's a sidebar story and has never been anything more on espn.com, si.com, etc. kenny rogers has a little brown smudge for an inning, and it's gone, and it's a bigger story (i don't care if it's a world series, he pitched 8 innings, the smudge existed for one). merriman beyond any doubt cheated, rogers had a mystery smudge, but still dominated without it...rogers is the top story everywhere with his picture on the front page and 10 different analysis experts talking about it, and merriman's story is an AP feed article.

:bang:

10-23-2006, 09:00 AM

oh my god, who the fuck cares about how merriman's situation compares to baseball. its apples and oranges

box elder

10-23-2006, 09:04 AM

the reason there's a difference in attention is that people have broken and are close to breaking records that most fans consider pretty sacred, and it's fairly obvious that these people cheated. despite the hype he's received of late, merriman is just nowhere near the equivalent of people like bonds, sosa, macguire etc. if it turned out that jerry rice or somebody was juiced, it would be as big a story as baseball, but nothing on that level has happened. and to be fair, it was a pretty big story when tom brady had one conversation with a guy connected to steroids, and that was complete conjecture.

edit: what danno said

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 09:21 AM

i don't think it's apples and oranges. if you don't care, don't talk about it danno. very simple.

and fine, if you think the merriman story is adequately represented, go ahead. i don't think you could be further from being "right" if there is such a thing. like i said. NFL star busted for STEROIDS (not a supplement) > any story about a mystery smudge non-factor on a pitcher's hand.

if merriman's baseball equivalent was busted, kenny rogers would be on the sidebar with merriman right now. speculative, yes, but nearly undeniably true. baseball steroid issues have been massively OVERBLOWN. it's not football problem, it's a qualm i have with the MEDIA's coverage. either tone down the baseball crap (because, frankly, the overstatement of baseball steroid impact was ridiculous...asserting 80% of the sport cheated and running it as a story), or bring up the other sports. baseball's new policy is just as tough, if not tougher than the NFL's.

and i apologize for not being able to edit. i'm in class on NHC lite, and it doesn't let me.

:bang:

10-23-2006, 09:29 AM

look, this is the nfl thread. in the nfl, people get tested, they get suspended. its been that way for quite some time. if homobaseball had the same rules in 1990, it wouldnt be a big story when/if ryan howard got caught (whoever that is). its a bigger deal in baseball because baseball (which has its own thread, by the way) lost control of the issue

so yeah. apples. oranges. talk about football

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 09:33 AM

we had this same debate last time, danno. if i talked about it in the baseball thread, someone can just as easily come in and say "move it to the football thread". it's relevant because i'm discussing a major tie-in with football based around the story involving an NFL player. if the topic of baseball comes into it, so what? it's just as much one sport as it is the other...moreso football because it's based around a hot topic football issue. baseball lost control 5 years ago. they've been addressing it ever since, and is a non-issue now, yet baseball steroid crap is still near-daily sidebar crap on the sports outlets about steroids, even when it's not much of a topic.

:bang:

10-23-2006, 09:37 AM

so start a new thread

baseball gets what they deserve as far as the steroid issue. story is everywhere. do you think the world series is so gay that we should care more about someone that plays on a team with hardly any fans tests positive for steroids? your point is that people should care less about steroids in baseball, so that sounds like an issue with baseball, not football

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 10:27 AM

no, my point is that people should care equally in all sports. baseball fucked up, and they atoned for their mistake by enacting a policy to solve that problem that is just as strong as football's. the major problem is over. the big names testing positive are done. it should be time to start anew and recognize baseball as having done it's part to fix it's mistake and put it on an even playing ground with the other sports as far as testing goes. it doesn't mean we should forget it happened, but we shouldn't sit around mocking baseball forever for the mistake it corrected. like i said, it's not that baseball should necessarily be talked DOWN, but that they should all be on relatively equal terms...especially now that the bigger "scandal" is suddenly back on the NFL side.

robb

10-23-2006, 11:36 AM

so is the lack of any shaun rogers discussion due to the fact that the lions are so shitty, or what?

box elder

10-23-2006, 11:49 AM

dns, i find it hard to believe that baseball has completely wiped the problem out. when you look at someone like giambi – who lost a bunch of weight and sucked for a while after the scandal broke, then gained weight back and was good again as soon as it died down – it seems like the baseball players have figured something out and are using it to their advantage. not to single out giambi, or even to say that he's definitely using something, but there are a few people that at least seem to continue to use something.

football, on the other hand, usually seems to be on top of these things, and when someone (like merriman) tries to get away with it, they're caught and dealt with before they break a bunch of records. it really is pointless to pretend that it's as big a problem in football as it is/recently was in baseball. maybe cycling or something, but no one cares about that anyway. and i intentionally use the word "seems" here because obviously none of us know anything for a fact. this is only my opinion based on what i’ve seen in both sports.

Homer Jay

10-23-2006, 11:53 AM

Many players on the Panthers Super Bowl team were found out to have had elevated levels of testosterone in their blood stream, but it was within the limits set by the NFL. I think that might have played a factor in some players getting caught because if the Panthers players could get away with cheating, then they could too. I think that PEDs are used much more often in football, both pros and college, than many people think.

EDIT: it's also funny to see that the google ad for this page is for andro

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 12:00 PM

giambi was all-but-busted for his steroid use a few years back. the testing cycles in baseball right now are way too frequent for him to just have jumped back on the juice. giambi is currently 6'3", 230, which is about what he looks, too. those numbers don't jump at me in the least. i'm not saying the PAST of the steroids in both sports is the same, but at present they're doing roughly the same exact things to curb the problem, and are both catching individuals of note. of course the problem isn't totally wiped out in baseball, but it isn't and never WILL BE wiped out in ANY of the sports. but for right now, there is no amazing, overwhelming, evidence to show me that even 5% of baseball is currently juicing. all evidence of baseball steroid allegations coming forward right now is regarding past engagements, not present ones.

box elder

10-23-2006, 12:02 PM

Roarke

10-23-2006, 12:02 PM

pretty sure baseball is as good as nfl now, which is not very much. 03 panthers are the only documented case, but i can't imagine that's the exception to the rule.

my overall point is that people are talking like shawne merriman's suspension in terms of what it'll mean to the chargers the four games he's not on the team, whereas in the ryan howard comparison, his entire reputation would change and tainted, articles and BEHIND THE LINES would go on for at least a month about how evil steroids are and how these people are heroes to children, whereas a comparible star in the NFL is tested positive and it's more or less on par with a 4 week injury.

my point wasn't so much as what league is testingn well or not--it's more or less a futile matter--just the stigma that seems to behind steroids and baseball and the lack thereof in the nfl. ryan howard would spend his entire career nearly black listed from sponserships, booed anywhere but philly (...make that everywhere) and it'd never escape him. I imagine we'll be hearing chris berman make up silly names for shawne in adoring light here on out.

kuumuus

10-23-2006, 12:03 PM

i for one am shocked that 250-300 pound athletes who run sub-4.6 40's are taking performance enhancing substances.

Roarke

10-23-2006, 12:09 PM

also: i'm keeping the off topic philly posts here so we can be reminded everywhere that philly fans are silly people.

box elder

10-23-2006, 12:10 PM

roarke, i think that probably has to do with the fact that so many of the people that have been busted in mlb (or are at least highly suspected of using) are so high in the record books. that's going to piss people off a lot more than some second year linebacker, fair or not.

and i think the reason the kenny rogers story is so much more prevailant is A. it's the world series, and B. it's a much sexier story, with pictures and little backstories and other things that espn and other outlets can jump on.

and i don't know much about how they're covering the merriman story, because i haven't watched any tv since it broke, but on the internet it seems to be a fairly big deal, second only to the aformentioned rogers story.

Roarke

10-23-2006, 12:14 PM

again, compare to ryan howard. if you can tell me ryan howard being tested positive would result in mlb 5 burning questions lilke these

Eric Allen: This is going to hurt the Chargers a great deal. They set up their entire defensive scheme around Shawne Merriman and now they won't have him for at least four games. They have to try to find someone who can step into his shoes for that period of time and hope to get somewhere near that same level of production from him. But that's asking a lot.

Merril Hoge: This suspension is going to shake this team for a little while because Merriman had become a leader in that locker room. Now he's out of the game for four weeks because of his own stupidity. That's going to upset the team and it could cause the Chargers to initially lose focus. Also, it's going to upset what they like to do because they aren't going to be able to replace him with anyone who has close to his talent.

Sean Salisbury: This team is going to miss Merriman's heart and intensity more than anything. Every time this kid was on the field the opposing team had to account for him, but because of the fire in his belly he was able to still make plays out there. Now the Chargers won't have him out there during an important stretch in their season.

Guarentee you all 5 questions would be about "WHat does this mean about the testing policy? Is it hard enough? Should howard be allowed to pet puppies again?

i'm not sure of any sponserships either players have, but i can't imagine merriman is close to losing any, whereas howard surely would(esp. that future viagra deal).

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 12:17 PM

i just went onto espn.com, and their top stories are about "upset sunday". merriman may not be high up in the record books, but he is already an award winner and an established star. he's a huge, huge name as far as defensive players go. other than the chicago bears' team as a whole, i have not heard a defensive player's name mentioned more this year than merriman's. he's the media's darling love-child. now that he's suddenly and unexpectedly slammed with this suspension, it's on the sidebar. there would be PLENTY to talk about regarding the suspension if the media chose to pursue it, but some total non-story involving rogers is somehow more important. a baseball player's maybe-sorta-kinda cheap game is plastered around more than a football star's for-sure busted steroid taking. i get the "it's the world series, it's bigger" angle, but merriman isn't even SI or ESPN's top story in FOOTBALL right now. upset sunday, dennis green maybe being fired, and tiki barber potentially being the best back in the NFL right now are all listed above merriman on SI.com as we speak.

Homer Jay

10-23-2006, 12:18 PM

to homer jay: no doubt football has some problems with PEDs. i'm only saying that it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad a problem as in MLB, and that merriman getting caught actually says good things about the NFLs policy and how well it works.The more I read about baseball's PEDs in the past twenty years, the more that I think it was incredibly common. I would not be surprised if anyone, ranging from Derek Jeter to David Eckstein got caught. I think it was more common in baseball than in football, but I still think that it was very common in football. I think that because football has banned steroids, that a number of players who use PEDs have moved beyond them and started to take HGH and other drugs much earlier than baseball. The NFL is even more concerned with having a clean image than baseball is. I don't think that any football team is clean. I think that the NFL's program works enough so that people won't call for stricter tests, but I'm not sure that it works that well. Even the IOC's tests aren't perfect, and the NFL's aren't as strict.

box elder

10-23-2006, 12:34 PM

when i view espn.com (http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6316/espnyq7.jpg), it seems to be the second story behind rogers (it's the only other one with a picture, it's separated from the rest of the stories, etc). but that's not the point. of course people should be talking about this from the angle of what merriman did and why it's wrong (though, i don't fault football analysts from also talking about how it will affect the team). and i really don't think howard getting busted would make people question mlbs testing effectiveness, because it would stand to prove that the testing works, just as this helps prove that the nfls testing works. i remember hearing the same shit when palmeiro tested positive (things like "now we know their policy really works,” etc). and frankly, i don't think the media is all that hard on baseball re:steroids either. most of the shit i hear about baseball and steroids is from fans, not media, and you still have people on espn all the time sticking up for macguire and bonds and the gang of people that never officially tested positive. i'm really not trying to downplay what merriman did, or say it's no big deal for football players, but i really don't see this huge problem with media coverage that you guys seem to see.

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 12:41 PM

i was referring to espn.com's NFL main page. howard tests positive, it goes on the front page, above everything else in sports. big, blown up picture with some play-on-words about howard's name and a baseball with two syringes crossing over it and 30 links analyzing the issue. merriman is still a sidebar issue. the falcons win over the steelers is the top story on the NFL main page. there was nothing phenomenal about that game that makes it bigger than an NFL star being caught using steroids. it's fine to have an expert on the side discussing the impact on the chargers' defense, but that should be the secondary story. this is an issue about what this individual did and what it means about the policy and for him, not "how will the chargers cope without merriman for a few weeks? will they make the playoffs?" if you're talking about that, make it your secondary analysis.

Roarke

10-23-2006, 12:44 PM

i'm not really making an argument for an idea of what the testin gis and what people should be talking about, i'm just arguing my point that there seems to exist a larger stigma in baseball than in football for steroid use and related stories.

my point is more of a curious nature than a "something's not right" poitn of view.

box elder

10-23-2006, 12:50 PM

i think it's a bigger issue in baseball for the reasons i've stated (the record books being flooded with many perceived and proven steroid users). people are going to make a bigger deal out of it in baseball for the foreseeable future because of this. is it "fair"? maybe not, but that's just the way it is. let's say merriman had broken the single-season sack record before this happened. i assure you people would be more upset than they are now. again, it's not exactly fair, but it's human nature to rank things in importance by how much they're perceived to have actually affected the "sanctity" of the game.

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 12:54 PM

well, on that note, merriman DOES have an award under his belt from a time period during which it is highly probable that he was using steroids. what do we do about that? palmeiro was less of a record breaker than a personal-milestone achiever, which is so far what merriman has done to a MUCH MUCH MUCH lesser degree. if we question the validty of 500 homers, where is the article demanding that merriman return the DRotY award? i get that the MLB players are bigger, but no one is even addressing the impact in the same way for football that they do in baseball.

Roarke

10-23-2006, 12:56 PM

do rafael palmiero or sammy sosa own any real record? I understand they're high up on lists, but they don't really hold any keen record.

we have no case study to go by on if a young MLB star was tested, but again, i have to imagine it would be treated in a much higher lime light than what this is getting.

deadspin case studyed this today rather nicely

August 3, 2005: Baseball's Rafael Palmeiro is suspended after testing positive for steroids. From Michael Wilbon: "Oh yes, baseball is facing a crisis. In this current climate of suspicion, is it fair to start looking at any pitcher with biceps with increased skepticism, too? Well, maybe it isn't fair. But that won't stop anyone. And where, exactly, is the commissioner of baseball while such an obvious crisis breaks out? Apparently hiding under his desk."

October 23, 2006: The NFL's Shawne Merriman is suspended after testing positive for steroids. From John Clayton: "The four-game steroid suspension of Chargers linebacker Shawne Merriman really comes at a horrible time for the team. Linebacker Shaun Phillips is expected to be out four to six weeks with a calf injury. They've lost linebacker Steve Foley for the season. The only outside linebacker of note is Marques Harris or Nick Speegle, which might the Chargers move Tim Dobbins or Donnie Edwards to the outside."

The NFL, it's like the Teflon Don, really.

box elder

10-23-2006, 01:06 PM

but baseball was already in a steroid crisis at that point. football is not. add to that the fact that palmeiro had shaken his finger at congress, was already 10+ years into what would have been a HoF career, etc, and it was a much bigger story than this is.

:bang:

10-23-2006, 01:18 PM

thank you roarke

Roarke

10-23-2006, 01:23 PM

wait, what am i being thanked for. sarcastically for wasting my day arguing this or reminding all how philly fans are?

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 01:26 PM

just for the record, however, say what you want about mcgwire, bonds, sosa, etc. and how much they hurt the game and all that, but NONE of them ever had a positive steroid test. that said, i 100% believe that each of them was doing SOMETHING, but this is a bigger story in that we conclusively know, via positive testing, that an NFL star has been using steroids. we don't KNOW that about anyone else. consider it the DNA testing for a murder trial: we have the missing physical evidence to go with the circumstantial evidence here. it's a small point, but one worth mentioning anyway.

:bang:

10-23-2006, 01:41 PM

splitting the thread?

Roarke

10-23-2006, 01:47 PM

andy did that part, so thank the holy cub fan. all i did was refuse a request from DNS to move the philly posts back.

which deserves thanks i think! amiright,giants fans?

Dead Nigga Storage

10-23-2006, 01:50 PM

there's still plenty of time to take shots at the philly fans in any sports thread on the board, so if we keep a few in here, we'll only be leveling things out. it's fine.

mike_donnelly

10-23-2006, 11:53 PM

is his nickname "lights out" still going to apply? maybe "blue lights out" is more apropriate.

:bang:

10-24-2006, 04:26 AM

and fine, if you think the merriman story is adequately represented, go ahead. i don't think you could be further from being "right" if there is such a thing. like i said. NFL star busted for STEROIDS (not a supplement) > any story about a mystery smudge non-factor on a pitcher's hand.

espn reporting it was a supplement

box elder

10-24-2006, 07:35 AM

yeah, it was a tainted B12 shot he got from miguel tejada.

Dead Nigga Storage

10-24-2006, 11:02 AM

way to go, preliminary reports. still cheating and still a violation, so fuck'em.

brad

10-24-2006, 11:06 AM

why didn't he just use HgH?

he would've been fine. dumb mistake.

DAntae

10-25-2006, 11:12 AM

isn't it all a bit of bullshit...since it was a supliment he was taking. too much attention paid to this story.

brad

10-25-2006, 07:23 PM

and OJ is still looking for the real killer

you can't always believe sports stars or other public figures

Dead Nigga Storage

10-25-2006, 07:24 PM

i don't give a shit if it's a supplement or not. it was illegal and he knew it. if he says otherwise, i'm no more apt to believe him than gary sheffield or bonds or any of them. and if anything, the story was initially under-reported, no way it was over-reported.

box elder

10-26-2006, 07:17 AM

even if it was a supplement and he didn't know it was illegal, it's still his fault. in the current climate, it's the players obligation to be especially careful not to break the rules. these guys keep acting like they'll pop any pill that's handed to them. grow a fucking brain, guys.

DAntae

10-27-2006, 08:41 AM

not saying its not his fault...however to compare taking a supplement to injecting roids is a bit extreme. I agree...their body makes them money, they need to educate themselves on what they take. personally I still think this shit was way overhyped.

:bang:

10-27-2006, 09:01 AM

NO ITS EXACTLY LIKE THE FIRST TIME A STAR BASEBALL PLAYER WHO TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF CONGRESS TESTED POSITIVE

DAntae

10-27-2006, 09:12 AM

oh yeah

Dead Nigga Storage

10-27-2006, 11:10 AM

wait, danno disagreed with us? i had no idea.

:bang:

10-27-2006, 11:17 AM

complain about media coverage more

DAntae

10-27-2006, 11:42 AM

this just in...ray lewis likes whole milk. terrell owens says 2% is the only milk straight men enjoy.

run with it sports "media"

Roarke

10-27-2006, 11:46 AM

i'm not going to spark up the argument again, as I wasn't really arguing anything to begin with as I was pointing out the lack of coverage i was seeing, but i have question--wasn't what he was tested for an anabolic steroid? or did i completely miss something. every report i read says it was nandrolone

:bang:

10-27-2006, 12:03 PM

DAntae

10-27-2006, 12:41 PM

I made the mistake of watching 'around the horn' earlier this week. jay marriotti...said merriman was throwing away his hall of fame career. guy had a stud rookie season and is a pro bowler but to even raise the hall already is the biggest joke ever.

I know its off the main topic but still

Roarke

10-27-2006, 01:53 PM

i believe the defense is (correct me if i'm wrong) that over-the-counter suppliments can either contain or mimick the properties of nandrolone

i mean, its bullshit and he gets what he deserves. no one is not saying that

thanks, i believe it's more of a 'b12' defense than what some people are saying (like i said, pretty sure nandro got banned in 1990 for OTC stuff), but i was just curious as to what, at all, the defense was as i hadn't heard it.

Dead Nigga Storage

10-27-2006, 02:08 PM

liking milk and violating a drug policy are the same thing. totally. thanks.

edit: HoF talk for merriman is probably the dumbest thing i've heard in a looooooooooooong time, but it was mariotti, so he's gotta be alarmist.

:bang:

10-29-2006, 05:11 PM

liking milk and violating a drug policy are the same thing. totally. thanks.
this makes no sense

Dead Nigga Storage

10-29-2006, 05:20 PM

this just in...ray lewis likes whole milk. terrell owens says 2% is the only milk straight men enjoy.

run with it sports "media".

i don't see how it doesn't make sense. joke or not, there seems to be something extremely noteworthy about a guy cheating, but not-so-much about some guy's food preference. yeah, i get it, he wasn't serious. still a shitty, shitty analogy.