Rate/Review South Park 1004: "Cartoon Wars Part II"

[TriforceBun]

Cartman vs. Kyle and Family Guy. Tonight!

[Pedro Sanchez]

God this episode was terrible 1/5

[Malachy]

Completely awesome, except for the lack of Muhammed.

[Matt B.]

5/5 Loved this episode. The King of the Hill joke was funny.

[Faaip de Oiad]

Way better than the first half.4/5

[TriforceBun]

That was a riot. The Terrance and Phillip beginning, the Bart connection, the meta-references, the manatees, the slap fight, the KOTH cameo, the jabs at Family Guy, and the ridiculous "retaliation"--all hilarious!

Story-wise, I liked how it covered both sides of the issue, and I was a little surprised to see Kyle pull away with the victory. I guess the overall message was that free speech should be allowed...but that doesn't make Family Guy a better show. It's clever how this episode was both about a real war in South Park, and the popular primetime cartoon "wars" (Bart's big role, Cartman representing South Park, and even a small background reference to KotH) at the same time.

The Gary Coleman and fish salmon bits were hilarious. I love how South Park's Peter Griffin starts every flashback with "You think THAT'S bad?"

EDIT: Did Comedy Central really censor the image? Interesting. They'll show Jesus Christ pooing on people, but won't show Mohammed handing a helmet to Peter Griffin. Isn't that odd? I guess they aren't worried about Christians bombing America. Also, what happened to the head-burying plot, and the guy that didn't have his head buried?

EDIT 2: Hmm, looking more and more likely that the censoring was a joke. Oh well, it made the hypocrasy point well.

Anyway, loved it. 4.5/5 A-

[LazloPanaflex]

what is everyones take on Bart's involvement in the episode?

[Icedragon]

I am sure Comedy Central did not censor the image, it was a jab at Comedy Central pulling the Scientology episode after Cruise.

[pat]

out-fucking-standing. loved every minute of it. one of those episodes where just everything is so off the wall and ridiculous (such as the terrorists' film at the end).

i actually thought it was a funny twist how it was comedy central that "censored" the image and not fox.

anyway, really great. both parts were hilarious.

5/5

[DKsimpson2]

I never have laughed that hard at a south park. The last part the retaliation with all the Americans pooping, the woman who was pregnant it was so funny. The rest was pretty bad but the Bart was funny it was funny when they went into the King of the Hill office. The part where the writers were manatees was bad. But I don’t like family guy so I like it.

Any one think CC did censor it? or was it a joke?

[Semaj]

what is everyones take on Bart's involvement in the episode?

I guess they're confirming that The Simpsons and South Park are one the same page about Family Guy.

4.75/5

[DKsimpson2]

what about the first South park episode that was pulled, the one where Eric was Hitler then in the KKK for hallo... I remember the cable company by me pulled comedy central after that.

who do you think the writers think like Eric or Kyle? do they like Family Guy?

[TriforceBun]

Simpsons and South Park both agree about Family Guy. But unlike Cartman, The Simpsons won't stoop to threatening the studio to pull their show (the end with Bart clubbing Cartman). It was surreal to have Bart in South Park, but it worked, and I'm glad they didn't do some sort of weird gruesome death or whatever with him.

Hah, that conversation was hilarious though. It reminded me of Bart in Take My Wife, Sleaze, but taken to the next level (where Bart meets Dennis the Menace). Quite funny, and well-timed.

[Gatorgod]

I think that Comedy Central, ...under orders from its Viacom owners,.. Did "Puss out"
As Cartman would say,.... "Thats Wroooong, WRONG!"

[pat]

the fact that this is the same network that allowed south park to say "shit" over 160 times leads me to believe that the censoring joke was just that, a joke.

[DKsimpson2]

makes me wonder if it was real, wouldn't it have happend like on the show, the writers would complain and then we would hear about it on the news. Its just a joke. If it was real we would know it.

Anyone think the best part was the end. "take that Americans"

[TriforceBun]

"THAT WAS WAY FUNNIER THAN FAMILY GUY."

It was indeed.

[caribou]

I think Tomacco will have really enjoyed the "preachy" and "head up asses" comments sprinkled throughout.

[DKsimpson2]

see Osama isn't shuch a bad guy, he makes a good cartoon.

Maybe thats why they did 911 happend it was to get family guy off the air, then family guy was taken off the air and the level went down to orange then family guy came back and the level went to red.

If you want peace in the mideast then take family guy off the air.

[Gatorgod]

...And now to even the playing field, The hard line ultra Orthodox Christian right, should start tearing up Denmark after seeing Jebus shit on Bush and the flag :-X

[Curtis]

Great episode, I loved how they used Bart and like was mentioned earlier glad he wasn't killed. Best episode I have seen in years.

[JoshG]

what about the first South park episode that was pulled, the one where Eric was Hitler then in the KKK for hallo... I remember the cable company by me pulled comedy central after that.

Your cable company may have pulled CC, but CC never pulled the episode you're referring to, "Pinkeye."

who do you think the writers think like Eric or Kyle? do they like Family Guy?

They've said in interviews that they don't like "Family Guy." Check the Wikipedia article "Criticism of Family Guy" for the exact quote.

[deshem]

good episode. return of terrance and phillip, kyle and cartman's sissy fight, "head up own ass" meta-reference, sea manitees, family guy parodies and retaliation cartoon all brilliant. interesting with the muhammed censoring - i thought that is was genuine but trey and matt have that blistering sarcasm about everything so it was probably false. but yeah, loads of funny stuff in here. also, south park's bart simpson is quite grotesque.

4/5

"cowabunga, motherf**er"

[NoOneFamous]

Hahaha, that was absolutely awesome. Nobody could have possibly seen it coming that the writers were manatees. And the explanation of how the episodes are written was so stupid but so awesome and makes perfect sense, thus making it the best jab EVER.

[TriforceBun]

Laundry + Mexico + Restaraunt + Gary Coleman

"Peter, I can't believe you didn't take out the laundry!"
"You think THAT'S bad? Remember the time I went to a Mexican restaraunt with Gary Coleman?"
"Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?"

[kfc_colonel]

Manatees are my favorite animals but how can I go on loving them if they are the ones responsible for Family Guy? I am so conflicted right now.

[Tomacco]

WAAAAYYY better than last week.

Still self-referential, but at least acknoweldgement of the
increasingly preachiness of the show, and the resolution terrorist
cartoon was hilarious. Also, the Tarrence & Philip cartoon at the
beginning had me fooled. They did the same thing with Not Without My
Anus, so I figured it would be possible for them to do it again. Also,
manatee thing was ridiculous, but amusing.

Hopefully the show can go back to normal again now, as it seemed to be
aiming towards in this ep.

The Comedy Central censorship black screen actually made me laugh
because just a number of hours ago my brother was telling me he saw
the "Red Hot Catholic Love" episode in syndication on UPN and whenever
the characters crap out of their mouths, a black screen appeared
saying "This scene depicts Randy Marsh/Cartman/etc pooping out of his
mouth" just like in this episode. I wasn't expecting a commentary on
THAT within this ep.

[Mira]

I loved this episode, especially Bart's appearance since it was true to his character. I didn't think I'd like any episodes this season since so many of the recent ones have been so bad, but these are really a huge improvement.

[boogie down mikel]

i like the beginning and the end but i mean the epsiode itsefl was very meh in my opinion

3/5

[DotheBartman]

Holy shit, I don't think I've laughed so hard at any tv show in quite some time. That was just.....brilliant. Loved finally seeing Terrance and Phillip again (nice touch having Terrance still be fat) and all the self-referencing, the Family Guy jabs, the Bart Simpson stuff...together this two parter has to be one of my all time favorites at least. And the "gay ass" speech was well said. 5/5

[homer5000]

5/5

Oh, man...this one was good. Manatees is a perfect idea because it was totally random and could not exactly be predicted, and made sense at the same time.

Bart made me laugh hysterically, a nice nod that South Park is not alone in this hatred. Yet, the best gag of the ep was defintely the ending. The only thing that caught me off-guard is that besides bashing themselves, no new issues were really were brought up. It seemed too stuck in last week, and since I've been on vacation, I was not exactly in the mood to travel back to last week. Even still with that, this awesome episode gets a 5/5...

[cired]

5/5 - I really enjoyed these last two episode of South Park. I'm not the biggest South Park fan, but I had to watch these two episodes though. I missed the KOTH appearance dammit! Must have been in the beginning, and I was still watchihg Lost.

[Rowdy]

Definitely funnier than the first part........particularly the jabs at South Park itself and MANATEES!

[Blythy]

"oh really so what's the worst thing you've ever done?"
"I sawed the head of a statue once"

anybody else sad enough to notice that muhammad was in the opening credits?

the episode was absolutely awesome, pitch perfect and everything was great.

[Gibbles]

"this show has everything"

Pretty dam good for South Park. I enjoyed the fox president acting like he was president of the country and over powering Bush (who they have finally got a good caricature of), also liked how they stayed away from being biased by having both sides of the issue played out. I assume the people at the South Park studio as a whole are like the Simpson's writers, where some like the show while others do not. Also loved the Terence and Philip tease, I really would not have minded that much if they did take up the episode to be honest, there funny characters who have been neglected and it would have been nice to see them again for a whole episode, but I'd Imagen the general publics reaction would be very different.

The Bart and king of the hill cameos was pretty good, I liked the mention of Cartman feeding the kids parents to him again. At the time I thought that episode went too far but now down the line it has really in forced Cartman's character.

If anything I really hope Seth and the gang over at family guy see this and try to re work the show to be more like it used to be. The statement from the truck driver was true about the current state of the show, but it did at one point have plot and didn't lend so much of its time to those pointless cut aways. Of course this wont happened because those guys are so far up there own asses that they will continue to produce stuff that could certainly have been written by manatees. but who knows there is always hope.

4/5, great episode

[Toli]

3/5. It was a great episode but I'm bumping it down based solely on the fact that I did not get to see Mohammed because it said comedy central blocked it out. I also expected better than manatees but I loved the T&P joke. I actually thourght we were gonna get another whole episode of T&P.

[Jayrayman]

WAAAAYYY better than last week.

I agree. I thought this episode was great, especially the Bart Simpson character and the whole manatee thing. Cartoon Wars part two is the best of the season so far and I cant believe I actually thought they made another Terrance and Phillip spin off episode. :o|

[Ignignot]

There is so much to swallow about this episode and they did it all in thirty minutes.

[My Little Needle]

WAAAAYYY better than last week.

Still self-referential, but at least acknoweldgement of the
increasingly preachiness of the show, and the resolution terrorist
cartoon was hilarious. Also, the Tarrence & Philip cartoon at the
beginning had me fooled. They did the same thing with Not Without My
Anus, so I figured it would be possible for them to do it again. Also,
manatee thing was ridiculous, but amusing.

Hopefully the show can go back to normal again now, as it seemed to be
aiming towards in this ep.

The Comedy Central censorship black screen actually made me laugh
because just a number of hours ago my brother was telling me he saw
the "Red Hot Catholic Love" episode in syndication on UPN and whenever
the characters crap out of their mouths, a black screen appeared
saying "This scene depicts Randy Marsh/Cartman/etc pooping out of his
mouth" just like in this episode. I wasn't expecting a commentary on
THAT within this ep.

agreed, 100%. I was so close to changing the channel at the beginning. Great self-references. the manatees were totally lame but I think that was kind of the joke. really funny episode.

[Cow Milk?]

5/5

They could of done better than the manatees, but they also could have done a LOT worse. So no complaining on my part

[phil]

didn't cartman ultimately succeed in his mission to bring family guy to a halt by removing one of the idea balls from the tank?

[spiritofstlouis]

^^
I assume Kyle would have noted the relevant authorities on this matter

[CHEESYPOOFS]

I'm not sure if it's been reported yet, but for what it's worth, I just got off the phone with a Comedy Central spokesman. I asked him about last night's episode of South Park in which, at a moment right before the prophet Mohammed was supposed to make a cameo, the words, "Comedy Central has refused to broadcast an image of Mohammed on their network" appeared on the screen.I asked him whether this truly was Comedy Central's decision or whether this was just another gag (with South Park, you never know). He said:

They reflected it accurately. That was a Comedy Central decision.
Just in case there was any confusion, that settles it. Comedy Central censored the image.


http://media.nationalreview.com/094921.asp

[homer5000]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/13/southpark.muhammad.ap/index.html

SP is really in its second golden age right now, at least with the media. This has got to be the tenth CNN story I've seen in the past six months. Hopefully all will quiet down and the show can go back to doing its random thing that was enjoyable last year (eps such as "Free Willzyx" and "Ginger Kids")...

[TriforceBun]

Guys, I'm as devout a Christian as my icon, but anyone who thought the ending was a shot at Jesus, Bush, and America is COMPLETELY missing the point. This was by no means an insult to any of that--merely the hypocrasy of CC showing that sort of image while censoring Mohammed standing there. The cartoon shown at the end was obviously meant to be really stupid and of really poor quality ("I'm an American, I'm so stupid!"), and even as a strong Catholic, I wasn't offended in the least. That wasn't their intention at all, and people need to pull their heads out of the clouds (or sand) and realize that.

EDIT: Not to mention Matt and Trey had several opportunities to make fun of Bush in this two-parter, but decided to take the road less traveled and make fun of some of the Bush criticizers. Nice restraint on that part, because Bush jokes have gotten as cliche as Michael Jackson jokes (another episode that took the high ground for the most part).

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

THAT WAS WAY BETTER THAN FAMILY GUY.

What an awesome episode. The fact that Comedy Central banned the image of Mohammed made it all the funnier. South Park is on fire this Season!

What was the point of the KotH scene? Was there supposed to be some joke there...?

[Bartesque]

For those of you who has seen the episode:
http://duffzone.co.uk/content.php?title=ref-southpark

[homer5000]

I thought the end was just a big fake-out joke. Remember, for the entire two episodes, America was worried sick about a retaliation that would wipe out the country, and it turns out that the Muslims fire back with another cartoon, trying to piss us off, but it really isn't that bad...

[Rowdy]

I saw the retaliation being a cartoon coming miles away, actually.......that was easily the worst part of the episode.

[JoshG]

I saw the retaliation being a cartoon coming miles away, actually.......that was easily the worst part of the episode.

Are you insane?? The voices, the quantity of crap flying around... it beat Kyle & Cartman's slap-fight. Act 1 was the best part though.

[Bartesque]

I saw the retaliation being a cartoon coming miles away, actually.......that was easily the worst part of the episode.
Agree.
Except for that and the manatees it was a great episode.

[Cerpin Taxt]

I guess they're confirming that The Simpsons and South Park are one the same page about Family Guy.

4.75/5

Do you mean in not liking that? See I think on the outside you're right, but Matt and Seth (ok just Seth) claim that they don't feud as much as Al would have you think.

[Curtis]

Do you guys see Family Guy striking back at South Park? Also I wonder if the Simpsons will do something with South Park as well, maybe a cameo by Cartman or something.

[TriforceBun]

I think Trey and Matt should guest star on an episode of The Simpsons, perhaps as one-time kid characters. Their kid voices are about a million times better than Tress MacNeille's.

[Malachy]

The censorship of Mohammed's image was no joke:

Parker and Stone were angered when told by Comedy Central several weeks ago that they could not run an image of Muhammad, according to a person close to the show who didn't want to be identified because of the issue's sensitivity.

The network's decision was made over concerns for public safety, the person said.

Comedy Central said in a statement issued Thursday: "In light of recent world events, we feel we made the right decision." Its executives would not comment further.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060413/ap_on_en_tv/tv_south_park_muhammad

[Toli]

I wonder if Super Best Friends will ever air again then.

[box elder]

it was an ok episode, but i thought the ending was the only part that brought it down. first of all, it was kind of obvious to have the retaliation be a cartoon, but fine that's no big deal so long as the cartoon is even remotely funny. i don't know why matt and trey seem to think people shitting on each other is so hilarious, but it's not.

[Mira]

The point of the cartoon was to not be funny so they could insult Family Guy by saying a bunch of people crapping on each other is funnier than Family Guy.

[TriforceBun]

Well, I saw it as a very lame and obvious attack on Americans--after all the buildup of "retaliation," this is what they fight back with. The joke isn't in the content itself, but rather how comparatively harmless it was, and I found it hilarious in that aspect. Fight fire with fire.

The Family Guy jab at the end was just the icing on the cake.

[Matt B.]

Do you guys see Family Guy striking back at South Park? Also I wonder if the Simpsons will do something with South Park as well, maybe a cameo by Cartman or something.
Family Guy will probably not do a shor or they will do a stupid shot. and the South Park kids did make a cameo they were a tv Bart and Lisa were watching can't rember the episode though

[Little Kid Lover]

It was funny but was incomplete.

[Toli]

Bart and Milhouse were watching south park on tv. It was a retaliation to sp's season 6 episode, The Simpsons Did It or something.

[kuumuus]

i had to watch part two for closure and to point out how much this episode also sucked despite everyone else's glowing reviews. 1/5, not even a chuckle. it's like 14 year olds write this show.

[LazloPanaflex]

Family Guy will probably not do a shor or they will do a stupid shot. and the South Park kids did make a cameo they were a tv Bart and Lisa were watching can't rember the episode though

......... season 14, the Bart of War

[barfly]

I'd bet family guy will respond

I haven't been that captivated by a cartoon since the Who Shot Mr. Burns saga.
Solid episode, good resolution, and... how couldn't we see manitees pushing joke balls coming?

[Toli]

Because it was random and out of the blue.

[TriforceBun]

It sure is fun to link the idea balls to Family Guy jokes though. Check it out...

Museum + Child + Dinosaurs + Angry + Masturbation

Peter: "I haven't felt this bad since I went to the museum."
Young Peter: "Why did all the dinosaurs die out?"
Curator: "Because you touch yourself at night!"

[Semaj]

Door + Airplane + Fall + Reckless

(In the "most reckless thing he's ever done", Peter opens the airplane door, and plummets to his presumed "death").

[deshem]

plastic surgery + jennifer love hewitt + eskimo + america

that is somewhat entertaining.

[bovine_university]

Like last week, it was okay, but I just was hoping for more. There were some very funny moments in this episode, like Kyle and Cartman's fight, Bart's cameos, the Terrance and Phillip fake-out at the beginning, and the cartoon (though it was a little predictable). I was pretty disappointed however, that with all of the time spent last week with that subplot about burying heads in the sand, it was more-or-less completely forgotten, come to think of it, no Stan was a bummer as well. And again we had sequences and scenes that felt too drawn out and lacked a whole lot of purpose (Kyle and Cartman were fighting for too long, the press conference seemed to go on and on, as did the climax). I'm a little undecided about the self-references about preachiness, they were kind of funny, but they didn't strike me as all that clever either. The ending was also very abrupt, as I really wanted to see the characters react to what had just happened. Overall, there were too many dramatic speeches and alot of dramatic music playing in the background, and it didn't really feel played for laughs or irony either, so there was a lack of light-heartedness. Again, like last week, we have an episode that feels stretched out with some funny moments, and again I have to give this one a 3/5.

I also can't shake this feeling that if they had left out the filler material and condensed the storyline, we would have had one great episode, but instead we're stuck with two okay episodes.

[DotheBartman]

Even with the censoring, it seems Matt and Trey were able to slip something by Comedy Central after all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Southparkseason10opening.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Southparkseason10opening.png

[box elder]

The point of the cartoon was to not be funny so they could insult Family Guy by saying a bunch of people crapping on each other is funnier than Family Guy.


yeah, i got it but that doesn't make it funny. the "see, that was funnier than Family Guy" was sort of funny, but nowhere near worth the retarded drawn-out cartoon that led up to it. and i understand that it was supossed to be stupid, but that doesn't make it any better. why do i feel like i always have to explain that just because i don't find something funny, doesn't mean i didn't "get it"?

it was too obvious, too stupid, and went on way too long. end of story.


edit: oh yeah, and the Jesus involvement at the end was beyond offensive. talk about hypocrites: they allow themselves to be censored on the Muhammad issue, and then show Jesus in such a horrifically disrespectful manner 5 seconds later (during the Christian holy week, i might add)?? i know you're all going to say "no that was the joke" but it wasn't funny. and furthermore, it doesn't even make much sense. one of the radical-Muslims main issues with America is that they think it's controlled by Jews; but would South Park show Moses in such a disgusting way? guess not.

[Snack Related Mishap]

I'm gonna give a really quick review, because i don't have the energy to give out a detailed one:

This episode was prettty damn good, but I am surprised people are saying it is better than the first part. The first episode, despite being set up, I still thought was funnier. But really, I think they were both great. I was kind of losing faith in South Park after some of the episode from season 9 and the return of chef, but these episode were back to the quality of my favorite seasons, 6 - 8. Matt and Trey have kind of lost their pizazz to me, but these episodes I think we're a fluke. I loved all the issues it delt with too. However, there somethings I liked and something I didn't. So, I'm just gonna make a list. Also, this review is for both episodes since i am too lazy to post two seperate reviews.

Things I Liked:
- Big Wheels chase scene
- Fake Bart(especially cowabunga, mutherfucker.)
- Mohammed Cartoon commentary
- Free Speech Commentary
- Farming Guy volunteering to sacrify himself
- Family Guy Parodies(So true)
- The scene in Murdoch's Office
- Terrance and Phillup Fake out at beginning

Things I didn't like:
- No resolution to the heads in the sand. I'm sorry, but i would have liked to see even a recognition of the people taking their heads out of the sand, even if it was just stan's father going, we're okay, we're okaym we'reeee okay!
- Bush press conference. Sure, Bush is incompetent, but I don't see why he would have held off on taking the idea ball out to save the nation. I don't care how dumb he is, any president would sacrifice a show for the safety of a nation. Yet, at the press conference, he seemd vehement that they let it air, like he had been threatened. That being said, i found it hilarious that they were manatees, but the press conference didn't make any sense to me.
- Cartman and Kyle's fight. It was hilarious at first, but it went on way too long. The slapping and stuff should have only gone on until the act break, and then started up again next act with actual punching. Sure, there would be little continuity(but then where did Cartman get the gun? Not saying I didn't like that joke, but saying continuity isn't something I'm too concerned about on South Park.), but the slapping and stuff got old after the three fucking minutes of it during act three. I did like how Bart hit Cartman over the head though.

Basically, that was it. I would give this one a 7.5/10, but the first part a 9/10. So averaged out I think we get a 8.0/8.5 out of 10. However, I will be generous and give the two episode together an overall grade of:

8.5/10

[Ihaveblink]

Didn't think it was that great.

3/5

[Super_Cool]

(but then where did Cartman get the gun? Not saying I didn't like that joke, but saying continuity isn't something I'm too concerned about on South Park.)

This wouldn't be the first time Cartman magically pulled out a gun. Remember "Two Days Before The Day After Tomorrow," the Jew gold scene?

[Luigi]

I really liked these two episodes. Especially the bike chase in the first part, and then at the begining of the second part with T&P I was flipping out because of the time before when they did that. But it all worked I thought. The fake bart was great and so was the King of the Hill reference. Also I thought the Cartman/Kyle fight was hillarious.

4.5/5!

[Semaj]

Was there any real significance to the King of the Hill joke, other than letting people know the show is still around?

[AngryDad33]

5/5- loved this episode and all of it's jokes. I thought the manatee writing staff was hilarious. I also loved that Bart was in the episode.

[My Little Needle]

edit: oh yeah, and the Jesus involvement at the end was beyond offensive. talk about hypocrites: they allow themselves to be censored on the Muhammad issue, and then show Jesus in such a horrifically disrespectful manner 5 seconds later (during the Christian holy week, i might add)?? i know you're all going to say "no that was the joke" but it wasn't funny. and furthermore, it doesn't even make much sense. one of the radical-Muslims main issues with America is that they think it's controlled by Jews; but would South Park show Moses in such a disgusting way? guess not.
how ironic that you were just saying how just because you don't think something's funny doesn't mean you don't get, since you obviously didn't get it at all.

1. if you're offended by south park, the joke's on you.
2. "either it's all ok, or none of it is."
3. they didn't "allow themselves to be censored on the muhammed issue. they've shown muhammed before in super best friends, so it obviously wasn't about showing the image, also, they've done things to offend muslims in osama farty pants or whatever it was called.
4. they've made fun of jesus before, and it really wasn't that offensive at all in the context.

jesus mohammed christ calm down

[Curtis]

Whatever happened to Jesus anyway, he used to be a regular in South Park he had his own show and stuff.

EDIT: I remembered that he got killed in a x-mas episode.

[box elder]

2. "either it's all ok, or none of it is."


think about that for a second in the context of NOT airing even an image of muhammed. that was my entire point, moron.

p.s., the only irony is you attempting to come back with the very thing i was saying is not the point. i basically said "i get it, they can do it to Jesus but not Muhammad, and they're pointing out hypocricy, but that that doesn't matter becasue they themselves are being hypocritical" and yet you still tried to say i "didn't get it"?

[perfectlycromulent]

I hope no one thinks that comedy central actually censored that episode.

[Super_Cool]

I hope no one thinks that comedy central actually censored that episode.

....Well, they did. They admitted it... Matt and Trey were told not to show Mohammed.

[Blythy]

how Jesus in such a horrifically disrespectful manner

I dunno what was offensive about the retaliation joke.

Jesus was supposedly a man, so therefore inevitably he would have to shit from time to time (although I know I would bow down and worship a guy who didn't shit for 30 odd years)

as for him shitting on bush in particular....

[Mr. Plow]

yummy yummy crap 5/5
I use to like watching Family Guy a lot and could barely watch South Park. Now it's the complete opposite.

[Moose of Doom!]

I hope no one thinks that comedy central actually censored that episode.

I KNEW cnn was full of filthy dirty lies!

damn liberal media.

[Toli]

Do you think the australian airing will contain a comedy central blocked message? I think SBS may put there own in if they feel they do not want to broadcast Mohammed even though they've shown Super Best Friends several times including last year I think.

[perfectlycromulent]

I know they said they couldnt show it, but I think if they had showed it, there would be no joke. I think they made that segment censoring muhammed themselves in ridicule of comedy central. I think they said they couldnt show him before they had done that part.


If that makes sense.

[%$#fg#@%&*aaZ__t]

Dudes that Muhammad censored thing was real!:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/13/southpark.muhammad.ap/index.html
Comedy Central said in a statement issued Thursday: "In light of recent world events, we feel we made the right decision." Its executives would not comment further.


http://volokh.com/posts/1144984968.shtml

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1uUiZgTpXg&search=south%20park

[Son of Bomber]

Pretty good episode, but for all their admittance to getting 'up its own ass and preachy' in recent years, I was kinda hoping they'd do something about it and throw some really great gags in (relevant and integral to the plot of course), which they didn't. I've never liked Family Guy, so it was nice to see it really get tossed about in this two-parter. Also, I feel that if Comedy Central censored Mohammed then it only added to the overall message of the episode. If Trey and Matt did it purposefully then it kinda defeated the whole purpose of the episode, but in this case I'm gonna believe the former. All in all, this season's shaping up pretty nice.

[box elder]

I dunno what was offensive about the retaliation joke.

Jesus was supposedly a man, so therefore inevitably he would have to shit from time to time (although I know I would bow down and worship a guy who didn't shit for 30 odd years)

as for him shitting on bush in particular....


come on, it is disrespectful to show somebody shitting on and being shat upon by a large group of people. it’s offensive when the person is someone whom Christian's consider a living incarnation of God himself (which Muslim's do not believe of Mohammed, by the way). i think being offensive was the entire point; so as to say "why can we do this to Jesus, yet we cannot even show Muhammad?" but i think that point is obvious and not worth doing that (just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should). furthermore, i think it's even more problematic in light of the fact that Muhammad’s image was censored 10 seconds earlier (it doesn't really matter who censored it, either). so what was the whole point of this episode? that South Park and/or Comedy Central can't get away with offending Muslim's so fuck it, they'll just go after the easy target? that's kind of what it boils down to, and frankly, that makes Matt and Trey very hypocritical in my book, regardless of what their point was. if they felt that strongly about free speech and being censored, why didn't they just quit when CC said they couldn’t air it?

[mohammed jafar]

it was assrammingly obvious that the point was a) that if given the opportunity, "the terrorists" would respond with similarly offensive cartoons degrading revered christian/western figures, so....they're hypocrites, and that b) "western society" is willing to allow very offensive depictions of its own revered figures and ideas in the name of free speech, so why can't "islamic society"? and hey, these points may be "obvious" in your book, thats very nice, but if you were to ctrl+x every joke in the history of topical comedy which derived humor from an obvious or widely-recognized source, you'd be wiping out a hell of a lot of awesome stuff. youd also be wiping out about 90% of all south park satire ever.

and seriously, if you're complaining about that cartoon being "offensive", there's absolutely no way you should even be watching south park. if you arent aware of the countless layers of irony, post-irony, ambiguity, authorial detachment blah blah blah that exist in this show, you really should not be watching

[box elder]

yes. i'm too stupid to "get it." thank you for returning there once more.

some things are just offensive. you can play the "layers of irony" game all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it was disrespectful for all the reasons i've mentioned 5 or 6 times. that doesn't necessarily imply that i was even "offended" by it in the sense that it angered me or made me indignant and upset. that scene didn't really affect me at all, but that doesn't mean i can't recognize that it is (and why it is) offensive. so, like i already said, their point was that yes, we allow the lampooning of our revered figures in the west. if that isn't obvious to anyone, then they're an idiot and any tv show that pretends to be intelligent shouldn’t be catering messages to them.

in the episode, the character (that i think one can safely assume was speaking for the show) says "either all of it is OK or none of it is." if this really is their motto, then why didn't they back it up? what that final segment boiled down to is "if you kill people and light fires when you're offended, we will not offend you; if you react peacefully when you're offended, we'll go out of our way to offend you all the more." and what you seem to be unable to comprehend is that intentionality is irrelevant.

p.s., saying that because i don't like/agree with every single aspect of the show means i shouldn't be watching it at all is kind of a silly either/or, wouldn't you say?

[mohammed jafar]

complaining about it being offensive and disrespectful is like complaining that the people at the start of the episode who were in mass hysteria for an insignificant reason weren't really being very sensible.

and i don't see how the west allowing lampooning of its revered figures is any more of an "obvious" point than, say, "all people in the us are in fact immigrants", "politicians are only out for their own interests", or any number of other points the simpsons or other shows have played off of. the interest is in the articulation and execution of a joke about said point, not the actual point itself. i mean, jesus christ.

in the episode, the character (that i think one can safely assume was speaking for the show) says "either all of it is OK or none of it is." if this really is their motto, then why didn't they back it up? what that final segment boiled down to is "if you kill people and light fires when you're offended, we will not offend you; if you react peacefully when you're offended, we'll go out of our way to offend you all the more." and what you seem to be unable to comprehend is that intentionality is irrelevant.

if you're watching south park expecting to see a highly focused, lean agitprop piece about a single issue which takes a single view that never contradicts or doubts itself, which moves in one single ideological thrust, you're not only watching the wrong show, you're watching about the wrongest show possible.

p.s., saying that because i don't like/agree with every single aspect of the show means i shouldn't be watching it at all is kind of a silly either/or, wouldn't you say?

no, not really. stuff like the al-qaeda cartoon is one of south park's most oft-frequented styles. saying you probably shouldn't watch it if you find such things "disrespectful" is like saying you probably shouldn't eat cheeseburgers if you don't like cheese.

[box elder]

complaining about it being offensive and disrespectful is like complaining that the people at the start of the episode who were in mass hysteria for an insignificant reason weren't really being very sensible.

no it's not, because the point of that scene was to show people being irrational, and it did that. the point of the end was to be disrespectful in order to show the media's willingness to allow it, but that doesn't change the fact that it was indeed disrespectful. like i said before, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Furthermore, those other episodes points you mentioned may have been equally obvious, but they also weren't overly offensive. it's fine to make an obvious point every so often, but in light of the fact that the point was obvious and the joke not funny, was it worth the complete lack of regard?

if you're watching south park expecting to see a highly focused, lean agitprop piece about a single issue which takes a single view that never contradicts or doubts itself, which moves in one single ideological thrust, you're not only watching the wrong show, you're watching about the wrongest show possible.


no, i'm not expecting anything like that, but if you're going to be preachy about hypocrisy, you can't be equally if not more hypocritical than those you attack, or else what's the point? also, like i said before it wasn't even remotely funny, so that's no excuse either. i don't find any of the jokes where they have people or animals shit all over the place to be funny, but to my recollection that's only been done 3 or 4 times so it doesn't "ruin" the show.


no, not really. stuff like the al-qaeda cartoon is one of south park's most oft-frequented styles. saying you probably shouldn't watch it if you find such things "disrespectful" is like saying you probably shouldn't eat cheeseburgers if you don't like cheese.

not in the least. i've said that my problem with the joke was that A. it wasn't funny, B. it's point was obvious, C. it was hypocritical, and D. it was disrespectful. you're saying that all of South Park fits all of that criteria?

look, there's nothing wrong with pushing the envelope. but at a certain point it can become pushing buttons for it's own sake, and then you might as well just listen to a Marilyn Manson record and get it over with.

[Malachy]

Shock humor for the shock itself has helped to make huge strides in the area of free speech. Everyone should draw offensive cartoons of Mohammed until it's established that free speech is all or nothing. There's always going to be someone offended by some joke.

uncensored Mohammed clip (http://spikedhumor.com/articles/23728/Muhammad_On_South_Park_Uncensored.html)

[Blythy]

Shock humor for the shock itself has helped to make huge strides in the area of free speech. Everyone should draw offensive cartoons of Mohammed until it's established that free speech is all or nothing. There's always going to be someone offended by some joke.

uncensored Mohammed clip (http://spikedhumor.com/articles/23728/Muhammad_On_South_Park_Uncensored.html)

its a fake.

1. it's muhammad from super best friends - not in a family guyesque style
2. the animation on muhammad is shit.
3. the comedy central logo is in the corner

[Gibbles]

Dunno looks pretty real to me, they probably didn't bother designing a new model because they most likely assumed it wouldn't get shown. I mean seriously, this is a clip from the episode, how would some one modify it with out having the original source that it was created in.

Thanks for that Malachy, I feel complete at last.

EDIT: Ok never mind its fake, still couldn't of been far off tho.

[My Little Needle]

think about that for a second in the context of NOT airing even an image of muhammed. that was my entire point, moron.

p.s., the only irony is you attempting to come back with the very thing i was saying is not the point. i basically said "i get it, they can do it to Jesus but not Muhammad, and they're pointing out hypocricy, but that that doesn't matter becasue they themselves are being hypocritical" and yet you still tried to say i "didn't get it"?
so you think they were copping out by not showing mohammed?

matt and trey are the last people on earth that would do that.

[%$#fg#@%&*aaZ__t]

so you think they were copping out by not showing mohammed?

matt and trey are the last people on earth that would do that.

The whole point of them showing Jesus crapping on bush and the american flag was to get back at Comedy Central for not letting them show muhammad.

William A. Donohue, president of the conservative Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights was pretty pissed at matt and trey for showing jesus defecating on the flag, he is seen bitching about how vulgar south park is in this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1uUiZgTpXg&search=south%20park

[Gibbles]

I can't believe people are taking that last part so seriously, you were made to think that they would retaliate with weapons but instead the terrorist show there own offensive yet pathetically so cartoon, its satire.

Its like some one saying a smart insult to some one else then that person saying "oh yeah...well your dumb", its funny because of how crude and lame it is.

The world would be a better place if this was how terrorist did actually respond to us instead of blowing things up and killing people.

[box elder]

William A. Donohue, president of the conservative Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights was pretty pissed at matt and trey for showing jesus defecating on the flag, he is seen bitching about how vulgar south park is in this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1uUiZgTpXg&search=south%20park


why, though, is it OK for South Park to do something for sole purpose of offending, yet if someone has a problem with it they're "thought police" out to crush free speech? isn't their objection protected speech as well? it's like when Bill Maher was fired by ABC and hasn't ceased whining about how it was a suppression of his freedom of speech. was he thrown in jail? was he punished in any way for what he said other than losing his job? just because you have the right to say something, doesn't mean someone else has the obligation to give you a forum. vocal opposition is not the antithesis of free speech but rather its epitome.[/rant]

[Curtis]

But free speech is supressed if the forum is never given for expression. Bill Maher is right to be pissed what happened to him it was bullshit. He said that the terrorists were not cowards. If they were cowards they wouldnt have gone on those plains. Im not supporting them at all im just pointing out how stupid it was that he was fired for that anyway about South Park, they and many many other shows on TV frequently make fun of not only christianity but other religions so should South Park be condemned for what they say about christianity but not other shows. Why should South Park be pulled, Comedy Central is not owned by the catholic church.

[box elder]

first of all, i never said South Park should be pulled, i only said that people have the right to boycott Comedy Central or whatever they can to try to get it pulled if they want to. that's not suppression of free speech. bill maher was fired because ABC (his employer) thought what he said was insensitive and out of line. what that probably boils down to is they didn't want bad publicity because of him, and therefore fired him before it could have cost them any money. you don't think they should have the right to do that? it doesn't matter if you agree with what he said or not: he has every right to say it, and they have every right to not give him a show.

allow me to use an example that doesn't involve "art" or show business, as that tends to muddle the argument. if i'm rude to customers at my job and they begin to complain to my boss and threaten to take their business elsewhere, do you think my boss should have the right to fire me? of course it's my right to be an asshole if i want to be, but if it costs me my job, that's life.

[Curtis]

But it is a totaly different situation, Politicaly Incorrect and South Park are open forums for Maher and Trey and Matt to voice there opinion. So your example does not stick. When the companies gave them the open forum to voice there opinion they should be prepaired to deal with controversys because not everyone agrees with everyone else. Remeber we are talking about a political talk show that features Maher and South Park which is the voice of Trey and Matt. This is no some lacky working at the local five and dime.

[box elder]

soooo, what you're saying is that once you hire someone to do a "politically charged" program (which South Park certainly wasn't when it began), the creators have carte-blanche to do whatever they choose and you have absolutely nothing to say about it? nice logic.

also, for the love of GOD please learn the difference between there, their and they're. it gets SO distracting when reading your posts.

[Curtis]

Yes they do because when you give someone an open forum guess what that means they are open to say whatever they want. Freedom of speech my friend.

[box elder]

you're an idiot. an employer has the right to terminate an employee if that employee is alienating so many customers that it's costing the employer money. it doesn't matter if it's McDonalds or CNN. i mean, what are you seriously suggesting? that ABC be open to a law suit from Maher? or forced to give him a show again? seriously, tell me what you mean when you imply that they shouldn't be allowed to fire him.

like i said, people have the right to free speech, but not the right to a TV show.

[Curtis]

They do have the right to a TV show WHEN they are given that show as an OPEN FORUM for them to to spout off on. It is not the same as working at a fuckin' McDonalds! They knew Maher had some strong beliefs and would say what he wanted when they gave him that show. They should not have had the right to fire him. Thats called hypocracy.

[box elder]

first of all, what if he had said something you didn't agree with? what if he had said the holocaust was a blessing and Hitler was a hero? would you still think he should have had the "right" to a TV show?

also, you still haven't addressed my question: what are you saying? that when they fired him the government should have come in and told them they didn't have that right? that they didn't have the right to decide who they continue to put on the air of THEIR station? what a beautiful dictatorship that would be! and if all the advertisers decided to pull from his show? should ABC have been forced to run it commercial-free and make nothing on it? or, wait, maybe the advertisers should have been FORCED to continue to sponsor the show because, hey, they sponsored it before, so they shouldn't be allowed to ever stop, right?

[Curtis]

Sponsers can do whatever they want and ABC does have the right to pull the show however it makes them hypocrites and it is not right. When you give someone an open forum knowing they are outspoken you as the company should be prepaired for that type of thing. Freedom of speech is one of if not our most important right as Americans. Bill Maher should have been paid in full for the duration of his contract, and if someone said they supported the holocaust or whatever you know what that is their opinion and they have every damn right to say it. This discussion gives me an idea for a thread...

[box elder]

don't start some other thread. i'm done arguing about this because you STILL don't get what i'm saying. of course someone has the right to SAY whatever they want, but that doesn't mean they are owed a forum to say it. TV stations pick up and drop series' all the time for all kinds of reasons. if they air a sitcom because they think it's funny, but the audience doesn't think it's funny, the show will be cancelled; does that make them hypocrites as well? they necessarily must cater to their audience! so if bill maher or anybody else says something that a large group of people are offended by, they have every right to cut ties with him and protect their own business. god, you're naive. it's not about freedom of speech, it's about capitalism.

[Curtis]

Well I lean more toward British Socialism than capitalism anyway. But I dont think you understand what IM saying. ABC knew what they were getting into, Maher was owed something because he was doing what he was allowed too, give his opinion. Politically Incorect was not ended because of poor ratings it was cause uptight idiots were bitching about a comment he made that was taken WAY out of contex. Maher is an outspoken guy and the whole purpose of his show was for him to give his (and other guests) opinion on various issues.

[Dead Nigga Storage]

Well I lean more toward British Socialism than capitalism anyway. But I dont think you understand what IM saying. ABC knew what they were getting into, Maher was owed something because he was doing what he was allowed too, give his opinion. Politically Incorect was not ended because of poor ratings it was cause uptight idiots were bitching about a comment he made that was taken WAY out of contex. Maher is an outspoken guy and the whole purpose of his show was for him to give his (and other guests) opinion on various issues.this is the part where you back down and shut up, curtis. you're wrong, 100% fucking wrong. you wanted me to come into this thread because it was a war about 'freedom of speech'? well, i'm here, but you chose the wrong guy to back you up. my dad worked for bill maher for 5 years, and i know EXACTLY what happened on that show. for a long time, the show was doing pretty damn well, leading it to be moved to ABC. after a while the show slipped in the ratings because everyone started to realize that bill maher was a total fucking prick (and i could feed you a lifetime worth of stories about the guy that everyone in hollywood knows about). eventually, the ratings were bad enough that a bunch of the writers for the show jumepd ship because it was fucking done. that was in about june of 2001. when bill maher made his september 11th comments sometime in october of 2001, it had long since been decided that the show needed to go, and it was yanked from the air. not because bill maher was some liberal crusader for free speech that needed to be silenced, but because his show couldn't maintain a half-decent rating compared to its competition. bill maher is a self-righteous lunatic, who, by his own admission doesn't touch reading material anymore often than george w. bush does. the only things he cares about are the things that strike closest to him or the things that he thinks he is special for advocating. the man is total fucking trash, and at risk of slander, i won't dare say the specific things that the man does. let it suffice to say that i've met him enough times to know i hate him, and i know at least 2 dozen men who have known him for more than a decade that could tell you that he's one of the worst men they've ever worked for.

bill maher was done on ABC because his show went in the tank with the ratings, not because of some P.C.-bitch's personal crusade against him. of course, it didn't help that he compared retarded children to dogs on the show once, and one of ABC's executives is the father of a retarded child, or that he slipped the word "fuck" in more than once during the course of the show's history.

i don't know where you get your bullshit facts from, buddy...but you're done.

[Curtis]

I was not aware of the whole situation surrounding the demise of Politicaly Incorrect then, you seem to know a lot more on what happened and since you met the guy I'll take your word for it, my main point though in all this, is that just because a religion gets pissed off no matter if its snake handlers or the catholic church they should not have any effect in altering our right of expression.

[Dead Nigga Storage]

the catholic church isn't holding a gun to anyone's head and telling them to alter a product. the fact is that religions have a strong grasp on alot of americans, and have the power of boycott behind them. if a network or a product thinks that it stands to lose alot of customers because of a religious boycott, THEN they decide to change things.

and don't ever spout your fat mouth off again about "facts" that you know about, because someone is going to bitch slap you like that when you do. if you didn't know the facts about politically incorrect, then don't throw things out there and proclaim them to be so. if you don't know what you're talking about, close your mouth. better to be silent and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[box elder]

goddamn curtis. i PMed you so we could avoid dragging this shit out, yet not only do you continue to drag it out, you ask others to come check it out so they can contribute to its being dragged out?! what the hell is wrong with you?

i'll say this for the very last time. if south park or any other show offends people, they have every right to speak out against the show (that's FREEDOM OF SPEECH, too asshole). if they convince enough people that the show is not worth their patronage, and the shows ratings go down as a result, the station has every right to cancel the show. this is how life works and it in no way affects your freedom to say whatever you want (i.e. nobody is suggesting Matt and Trey be thrown in jail or fined). now enough already.

[My Little Needle]

To recap

1. free speech = good

2. free speech includes the right to be a douche

3. bill maher is irrelevant

4. comedy central is hypocritical

5. bobsyeruncle, curtis, and dns overreact

[Dead Nigga Storage]

6. MLN makes an entirely useless post to be a douchebag.

i wasn't doing it to overreact...i could give two shits about the issue itself, but when curtis spouts off about "facts" on an issue he knows shit about, and then asks me to come in and post about it, you're damn right i'm gonna come in here and say something:

LHbigpimpin06 (4:15:40 PM): Have you read the south park thread about cartoon wars part 2 there is a discussion going on about Bill Maher and freedom of speech, just telling u in case u missed it

[phil]

was that onion article (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39358) about bill maher actually true?

[Dead Nigga Storage]

hahaha...that's disgustingly close to the truth.

[My Little Needle]

6. MLN makes an entirely useless post to be a douchebag.

i wasn't doing it to overreact...i could give two shits about the issue itself, but when curtis spouts off about "facts" on an issue he knows shit about, and then asks me to come in and post about it, you're damn right i'm gonna come in here and say something:

LHbigpimpin06 (4:15:40 PM): Have you read the south park thread about cartoon wars part 2 there is a discussion going on about Bill Maher and freedom of speech, just telling u in case u missed it

sorry. it's not as if i actually read after half the posts on this page, i just saw your name and an overly long post and put the peices together.

[Dead Nigga Storage]

i certainly can't blame you for not reading this thread. i only read the post that i was pointed in the direction of by curtis, and then replied.

[DotheBartman]

Even putting aside that South Park has gone a lot farther than Jesus shitting on people (such as having him in a boxing match with Satan and LOSING, and even worse Red Sleigh Down where he viciously kills people and then is shot to death), it's not like religions are the only thing they've gone after. What about all the racial stereotypes? Or all the gay jokes and stereotypes they've made over the years, including repeatedly having characters refer to things they don't like as being "gay" (including in this very episode)? And religion is actually a choice they're lampooning too, unlike ethnicity and sexual orientation which people are born with. If you find the show to be offensive or in bad taste that's fine, but man, don't watch it for ten years. Nothing about that ending scene was remotely new for South Park.

Not even going to try to go into the whole Bill Maher thing....

[H Thompson]

I saw this posted on another forum, quoting something posted on another forum and thought it was worth bumping the thread for. It's someone's complaint to comedy central about the censorship in the episode and their response justifying their actions.
It's actually a pretty reasonable and in-depth response, especially considering their a t.v channel.

Message: I was extremely disappointed to see that Comedy Central chose
to censor an animated image of Muhammed, especially considering that
South Park is immediately followed by a show that features humor poking
fun at potentially offensive stereotypes about Blacks, Whites,
Mexicans,
Gays, Midgets and just about any other race or ethnic group ("Mind of
Mencia").

I am not offended by the content of "Mind of Mencia"- I am offended
that Comedy Central caters to the sensitivities of foreign terrorists,
as opposed to the American citizens who pay your salaries by watching
your network. I could care less about seeing a fictional cartoon
prophet, but enjoy living in a country where comedians can show such an
image if they choose.

Shame on you for caving in to pressure not only from Scientologists,
but
now from another group of religious fundamentalists as well.

-A dissappointed viewer


Comedy Central wrote:
Dear Viewer,

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the "South Park" episodes
entitled "Cartoon Wars." We appreciate your concerns about censorship
and the destructive influence of outside groups on the media,
entertainment industry and particularly Comedy Central.

To reiterate, as satirists, we believe that it is our First Amendment
right to poke fun at any and all people, groups, organizations and
religions and we will continue to defend that right. Our goal is to
make people laugh and perhaps, if we're lucky, even make them think in
the process.

Comedy Central's belief in the First Amendment has not wavered, despite
our decision not to air an image of Muhammad. Our decision was made
not
to mute the voices of Trey and Matt or because we value one religion
over any other. This decision was based solely on concern for public
safety in light of recent world events.

With the power of freedom of speech and expression also comes the
obligation to use that power in a responsible way. Much as we wish it
weren't the case, times have changed and, as witnessed by the intense
and deadly reaction to the publication of the Danish cartoons,
decisions
cannot be made in a vacuum without considering what impact they may
have
on innocent individuals around the globe.

It was with this in mind we decided not to air the image of Muhammad, a
decision similar to that made by virtually every single media outlet
across the country earlier this year when they each determined that it
was not prudent or in the interest of safety to reproduce the
controversial Danish cartoons. Injuries occurred and lives were lost
in
the riots set off by the original publication of these cartoons. The
American media made a decision then, as we did now, not to put the
safety and well being of the public at risk, here or abroad.

As a viewer of "South Park," you know that over the course of ten
seasons and almost 150 episodes the series has addressed all types of
sensitive, hot-button issues, religious and political, and has done so
with Comedy Central's full support in every instance, including this
one. "Cartoon Wars" contained a very important message, one that Trey
and Matt felt strongly about, as did we at the network, which is why we
gave them carte blanche in every facet but one: we would not broadcast
a
portrayal of Muhammad.

In that regard, did we censor the show? Yes, we did. But if you hold
Comedy Central's 15-year track record up against any other network out
there, you'll find that we afford our talent the most creative freedom
and provide a nurturing atmosphere that challenges them to be bold and
daring and places them in a position to constantly break barriers and
push the envelope. The result has been some of the most provocative
television ever produced.

We would like nothing more than to be able to look back at this in a
few
years and think that perhaps we overreacted. Unfortunately, to have
made a different decision and to look back and see that we completely
underestimated the damage that resulted was a risk we were not willing
to take.

Our pledge to you, our loyal viewers, is that Comedy Central will
continue to produce and provide the best comedy available and we will
continue to push it right to the edge, using and defending the First
Amendment in the most responsible way we know how.

Sincerely,
Comedy Central Viewer Services

[Green_Peaness]

It's actually a pretty reasonable and in-depth response, especially considering their a t.v channel.

I've seen other responses from other TV stations to angry viewers, they all sound super-professional. That's to be expected, they're big companies so they'll pay for good representatives.

But not only is it professional, there seems to be no masking of bullshit and there are some good points. It would be irresponsible to air something that could potentially end with people killed.

[H Thompson]

Yeah that's what I mean, and it doesn't seem like a multi purpose reply like "thankyou for your feedback, we do try to satisfy all our viewers but sadly this isn't always possible" and then go on to not actually say anything in direct response to the complaint.

[box elder]

It would be irresponsible to air something that could potentially end with people killed.


i disagree. what does "free speech" mean if the second it's challenged, we back down? it sucks that we live in a time when a cartoon can cause rampant death and destruction, but that's all the more reason to stand up for our rights and actually fight for what we supposedly believe in. it seems Comedy Central and South Park are content to just cower to violence and continue to go after the easy targets. wow, how ground-breaking.

[DotheBartman]

Uh, it's hardly South Park's fault. Technically they did put the censoring in there, but only because Comedy Central wouldn't air it otherwise.

That Comedy Central message is sort of refreshing and frank, but where it kind of misses the boat is that it doesn't adress the pulling of "Bloody Mary" or "Trapped in the Closet" at all, and its clear that neither of those were pulled for the sake of responsibility. I can emphasize with them not wanting to show Mohammed right now, even though I don't agree with the decision, but I'm pretty sure the Catholics and Tom Cruise were not going to start riots, no matter how angry they were. That's where they're still rather hypocritical on this.

[box elder]

South Park's culpability lies in the fact that they allowed themselves to be censored. if they felt that strongly about free speech they should have quit on the spot (perhaps the threat of that would have even forced CC to reconsider). but to do nothing and then come back and try to be oh so provocative with a talking vagina is a fucking joke. their little crusades can no longer be taken seriously.

[Super_Cool]

This episode explained why FG was cancelled. FOX took out the Jew idea ball because they wouldn't air the episode, so the manatees stopped working. When they showed the Jew episode, the manatees started working again.

[DotheBartman]

South Park's culpability lies in the fact that they allowed themselves to be censored. if they felt that strongly about free speech they should have quit on the spot (perhaps the threat of that would have even forced CC to reconsider). but to do nothing and then come back and try to be oh so provocative with a talking vagina is a fucking joke. their little crusades can no longer be taken seriously.

For one thing, the show has a contract. I don't think it's as simple as just getting up and leaving. And honestly, are you seriously suggesting that they should self-cancel their own show just over that? Part of their POINT was that censorship compromises shows that people love. I don't think they'd have much interest in taking away a show that a lot of people still enjoy, and that they clearly enjoy making. It wouldn't really accomplish anything and they wouldn't have even been able to make their point through the episode. A forcibly censored episode that still makes a strong point is better than not having the episode.

And yes, doing an episode about a talking vagina wasn't the greatest idea, but the two are in no way connected. I'm not sure why exactly you watch this show as I've never seen you say anything remotely positive and you usually just bash the creators for either being too offensive or not going far enough. It seems if you consistantly hate a show this much its probably time to find something else to do.

[box elder]

i didn't always dislike the show, but whether or not i should "give up" on it now doesn't really have any bearing on this argument one way or another. and you act as though the two scenes that were 5 seconds apart are somehow mutually exclusive. if you'd read my posts, the reason i think the Jesus scene was offensive was precisely because of the fact that Muhammad was censored. it's as if they said "oh, we can't offend Muslims? OK, let's just offend Christians then." so, basically, they'll "fight for free speech" as long as it isn't actually a fight? and i think it would have been a much bigger statement to say that they wouldn't compromise their integrity and continue to line the pockets of a corporation that censors them. you don't think that would accomplish anything? like i said, the threat alone might make CC think twice about censoring them in the first place, and if it didn't they could go on every talk show and tell the country about how the "bold and daring" Comedy Central that "break[s] barriers and push[es] the envelope," went running for the hills the second it got rough. and of course they'd be allowed to quit, what do you and Curtis think, that armed guards come and stand over people with contracts forcing them to continue? they'd probably have to pay back whatever they were to earn for the shows that were never produced, but if the money's the most important thing to them, maybe they shouldn't be making preachy episodes to begin with.

and yes, the vagina episode is connected! that's entirely the point... ooohh, a talking vagina, how daring! when they've devoted so much of the series to this very cause, it totally destroys all of that when the one time that they're really challenged, they back down, take a cheap-shot on their way out, and move on.

p.s. i'm not saying they should be cancelled, jailed, killed or anything like that. in fact, i'm hopeful that the show will get back on track at some point and that i will enjoy it again. all i'm saying is that they're hypocrites and that i don't think i'll be able to take their little tirades seriously anymore.

[Dead Nigga Storage]

it's as if they said "oh, we can't offend Muslims? OK, let's just offend Christians then."
i'll only speak to this one point, because i don't want to touch the rest of this debate. the point of the whole scene with jesus crapping on everyone wasn't supposed to be a "we can't offend muslims, let's make fun of christians instead" joke at all. it seemed obvious, at least to me, that the point of the scene was to say "look how retarded comedy central is...they censor muhammed, but they won't censor this". i think matt and trey were entirely aware that the upcoming south park episode would be censored, so they threw it in to cite a very obvious hypocrisy by having the two scenes two seconds apart. and they just satirize the hell out of EVERYTHING...it doesn't mean that they are any type of legitimate crusaders with integrity to lose or gain, so if they'd rather just take that kind of shot at CC and carry on with things, i don't see how that cripples anything they do. and all of that aside, they have a fans who would much rather have their weekly episode of south park than a creator-cancelled show...i'd say it shows fanbase loyalty, because the majority of fans DON'T want the series to be done in by something like this.

[DotheBartman]

i didn't always dislike the show, but whether or not i should "give up" on it now doesn't really have any bearing on this argument one way or another. and you act as though the two scenes that were 5 seconds apart are somehow mutually exclusive. if you'd read my posts, the reason i think the Jesus scene was offensive was precisely because of the fact that Muhammad was censored. it's as if they said "oh, we can't offend Muslims? OK, let's just offend Christians then."

The point wasn't to offend Christians. Read Jafar's posts to you earlier. What President Logan said above this also.

so, basically, they'll "fight for free speech" as long as it isn't actually a fight? and i think it would have been a much bigger statement to say that they wouldn't compromise their integrity and continue to line the pockets of a corporation that censors them. you don't think that would accomplish anything? like i said, the threat alone might make CC think twice about censoring them in the first place, and if it didn't they could go on every talk show and tell the country about how the "bold and daring" Comedy Central that "break[s] barriers and push[es] the envelope," went running for the hills the second it got rough.

I'm sure the creators believe in their cause, but they aren't stupid. Especcially when half of their point is that they don't want to have shows compromised, they're not going to compromise their own show. They're satirists, not the ACLU. There's value in what they do, but their job is not explicitely to get into big fights. It's to make their points with their work.

and of course they'd be allowed to quit, what do you and Curtis think

Please don't lump me in with Curtis....

, that armed guards come and stand over people with contracts forcing them to continue? they'd probably have to pay back whatever they were to earn for the shows that were never produced, but if the money's the most important thing to them, maybe they shouldn't be making preachy episodes to begin with.

My assumption is that there would some sort of legal ramifications. Obviously they can sorta quit, but it wouldn't exactly be entirely easy for them to do so as far as I know.

and yes, the vagina episode is connected! that's entirely the point... ooohh, a talking vagina, how daring! when they've devoted so much of the series to this very cause, it totally destroys all of that when the one time that they're really challenged, they back down, take a cheap-shot on their way out, and move on.

But the two episodes had nothing to do with each other. Really, I just don't know what you expected them to do...I'm sure they and their producers would know a lot better than either of us what rights they had and whether they could actually even threaten quitting in order to get what they wanted. At some point they probably just had to be reasonable, make their point, and yes, move on. The talking vagina thing (which was in production beforehand, btw) isn't directly connected because it just happens to be the next idea they came up with, or aired anyway. They weren't trying to be especcially provacative with it. It was just supposed to be funny.

[box elder]

my whole and only point is that they're hypocrites. and just because they were pointing out CCs hypocrisy (which, yes, they obviously were) doesn't mean they weren't also hypocrites. in fact, CCs hypocrisy is necessarily their own. (my "it's as if they said..." was exaggerating/skewing their intention on purpose to make a point about the juxtaposition)

and i'm not suggesting that the two episodes had any literal connection other than the fact that the talking vagina, as far as i can tell, was supposed to be "provocative" in some ways, and in light of the previous episode it seems rather silly to me to try to push the envelope with a talking vagina when you backed down a week earlier on an actually important first amendment issue. that's all i'm saying. like i said before, i don't wish they'd have quit the show, because i still hold out hope of one day enjoying it again (despite this seasons pitiful start). but I still think quitting would have been the only way to take any kind of superior stance to that of Comedy Central or any of the other news outlets that had their heads in the sand, as it were.

[Dead Nigga Storage]

which brings us back to the whole "they're not first amendment rights crusaders" argument. they're just a couple of satirists who like to have fun with their show, and mock current events. they see that their time and energy is better devoted to moving on and mocking the next issue of the week. they don't believe that censorship of muhammed was right, and they've been vocal on that topic up until now. it seems like you're saying that they only way to support the first amendment in this case is to walk off the show and never do another episode. they've said their piece on the issue, and don't feel that the entire show needs to be destroyed (which i'm sure they would not like, and OBVIOUSLY the fan base would not either) to stand up for free speech. giving into censors does not equate to AGREEING with the censors, and just because they won't push the fight as far as you think they should (and i don't think they should, because, like bartman said, we're not talking about the ACLU, we're talking about trey parker and matt stone) doesn't make them hypocrites...it makes them mindful of their fanbase and their desire to have a medium through which to be jackasses.

[box elder]

fair enough. i guess we disagree on just how much of their satire revolves around the first amendment issue. it's always been my belief that it was pretty much the theme running through almost every episode they've made; whether it's been pushing boundaries in the name of free speech, or actually attacking people/entities they thought were anti-free speech. and in that case, i think it is a little hypocritical to just "move on to the next issue" the one and only time their freedom of speech was actually stifled.