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View Full Version : Bart and Skinner's friendship in Sweet Seymour Skinner's Baadasssss Song


IAMHOMER
02-28-2006, 07:56 AM
This episode got quite a few negative reviews when it first aired, one of the many criticisms being that the main premise of a mischievous ten-year-old befriending his ex-principal is just not believable. To quote a notable example from one of the SNPP regulars:

"Matthew Kurth: I expected the 100th Episode to be a celebration. Instead, we had a funeral. The script had no meaning, no depth, no punch, and no respect for good taste. Bart and Seymour becoming fast friends was totally unbelievable. What wasn't cringeworthy in this one was merely mediocre. Pathetic and worthless. Only Santa's Little Helper and Willie as the "greased Scotsman" saved it. 4/10."

Now this episode is currently regarded by many on here as one of the best of Season 5, and although I don't quite share the high praise and would personally put it in the bottom half of its season (TBH Lisa's Rival would have been a better choice as 100th episode) I still find it very interesting in the way it fleshes out Skinner's character and further explores the ambiguous nature of his relationship with Bart, with the intriguing pull between on the one hand his affection towards this likable if underachieving scamp, and on the other hand his revulsion towards Bart's constant mischief making and failing grades which gets in the way of forming any kind of sustained rapport with him. Which leads to the main question: is their friendship realistic?

The main strength of this episode, as in others with Skinner playing an important role, is the way it portrays him as a very realistic but essentially human authority figure. Being a headteacher at the worst of times can be just as stressful as any high pressure job, having to juggle the demands of failing and/or disruptive students, disaffected teachers, overexpectant parents, all under the watchful eye of hypercritical superintendents like Chalmers. His character actually reminds me of one or two heads I encountered at school: someone who tries his best to enforce discipline and order while at the same time being on friendly terms with his students, with the usual human foibles (forgetting students' names, losing his temper inordinately). However, despite the high stress factor his interaction with the Springfield Elementary people, especially the children, is his one way of counteracting his loneliness (resulting from still being a bachelor in middle age without a long term relationship and still living with the nagging Agnes). With his job gone his life feels empty and worthless.

Now, the scene with Skinner and Bart becoming friends at the Laundromat could be said to be a contrived plot device just to explore Skinner's character in more depth, but the reason behind it, if not overtly explained, is quite subtle and actually very logical. As shown in previous episodes like Principal Charming, Bart the Murderer, Separate Vocations, Whacking Day etc. Skinner could be very nice towards Bart when he recognised his good points (admittedly not very often), and one suspects he even has a sneaking admiration for Bart's ingenious prankish side (if not his academic achievements), however much he may not want to admit it. Bart earlier openly admitting his guilt and apologising for his part in getting Skinner fired furthermore showed a side to him that Skinner had rarely if ever seen before. Divorced from being principal and therefore without the burden of Bart's academic underachievements, Skinner is able to see Bart for what he is without bad grades clouding his judgement, a good kid at heart whatever his flaws. Also, with Springfield being a small town and having more of a community spirit than most big cities, it is quite plausible that they would bump into each other outside school hours and try to exchange civilised conversation despite being at loggerheads during most of school time. Under those circumstances it is understandable that Skinner would look on Bart as someone to fill the current void in his life that resulted from him getting fired, whatever their past differences.

And as you'd expect from someone of Bart's age, he doesn't immediately jump into this new friendship, naturally feeling somewhat awkward at the prospect of meeting up with someone miles older than him outside school, especially an ex-principal who dished out detentions to him on a regular basis. It is the bullies stealing Skinner's underpants and Skinner not being able to buy a new pair which is the main factor in creating their bond: being emblematic of Skinner's plight, it causes Bart's guilt to resurface and as he doesn't get on with the bullies, he sides with Skinner, for once seeing him as an ally and not merely as his over-disclipinarian principal, and this is where the friendship starts.

And afterwards after the anarchy that results from Flanders' ill-fated appointment as principal and Skinner leaving to rejoin the army, he realises that things have gone too far and how much better off the school was with Skinner in charge, mainly due to a typically cynical perspective on their relationship - "I miss him as a friend, but I miss him even more as an enemy" and Lisa's reply "Everyone needs a nemesis", which is summed up at the end with Bart and Skinner walking away from each other with opposing trick signs on their backs. And even though they both realise that with Skinner being reinstated, that is almost certainly the end of their friendship unless Bart becomes a good student, Skinner is in turn eminently grateful for Bart's efforts in getting him back as principal and their hug towards the end is certainly touching.

So does that opening quote have a grain of truth, or would you say that their friendship is definitely believable, for similar reasons given above?

H Thompson
02-28-2006, 08:15 AM
It's one of my favourites of season 5 so obviously I agree with your positive analysis.
Wish I was capable of coming up with essay length posts like that. I appreciate the time and effort you put in by the way.
I could imagine one other reason for the episode being criticised is that it has quite a slow pace and has this dry feel to it in the way some Oakley & Weinstein episodes do. I remember noticing this even when I was very young but I never had any problem with it because it seems they were trying to capture the depression that the characters are feeling and it was very successful in doing that. And I think the gags that are there are great, it's certainly an example of when some very wacky gags (The Kwik e mart exploding) and surreal plot developments (the whole alien parody) don't feel at all intrusive to the emotion.

Adamm R)))
02-28-2006, 08:47 AM
^I don't really like the Kwik-E-Mart exploding gag. Seems to wacky for me. And I would say more about the episode, but I completely agree with everything IAMHOMER said. There's nothing I can contribute more than 'I agree'.

Imperciph
02-28-2006, 08:59 AM
Great post IAMHOMER. Definitely agree with all of your points. There isn't much to add to this but I'll try.

The best thing this episode does apart from just fleshing out Seymour Skinner is generate genuine empathy for his character. His characterisation was extremely down-to-earth and realistic. All of Skinners actions feel extremely realistic, just like a real-life lonely and awkward dedicated educator would feel and react if he was robbed of the only thing he was passionate about. His different antics after he gets and how the different characters interact with him afterwards works great in providing with depth : Milhouse amazed at him wearing casual clothes, Apu openly reprimanding him about his dated movie idea, the bullies stealing his underpants and then him unable to buy anymore, him choosing a different style of laundry.

I also agree with you point about Bart feeling the void created in Skinner's life. After all, in his principle days, a big part of his job involved around Bart because of his mischievous nature. So, seeing as Bart is the only student who interacting in a friendly manner with him and shwoing some remorse about his firing, Skinner feels Bart is his only link to the job he was so passionate about; therefore he embraces Bart's friendship. Its perfectly logical and well-developed.

And one of the best aspects of Bart's character is that he often feels remorse when he realises he has crossed the line. This feeling of guilt leads him to befriend and support Skinner. Another subtle thing that leads Bart and Skinner bond is the recurring theme of Bart requiring a nemesis. Bart behaves the same way he does with Skinner with Flanders but he loses interest with Flanders' easy-going ways. When Skinner ultimately leaves for the army, this void in Bart's life becomes even bigger and he finally realises what Skinner means to him.

The ending scene is one of my most favorite endings : perfectly summing up the whole episode and their bond in couple of excellently executed scenes.

And regarding the quality of episode : I have little or nothing to criticise ; it is a great combination of Oakley/Weinstein storytelling and Mirkin-esque humour.

SimpsonByte
02-28-2006, 10:34 AM
I never really had a problem with this episode, and to be fair, that person's excuse (in the first post) seemed pathetic...from where I was standing, Bart befriended Skinner because he felt sorry for him. One for getting him fired accidently, two because his dream was bought down to Earth by Apu, and three when the bullies stole his underwear and he couldn't do anything about it. So, all in all, I'd have to agree with almost everything written. If anything, the friendship between the two is why I like the episode so much.

That, and I'll never forget Apu's aforementioned rant about Jurassic Park.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper
02-28-2006, 11:42 AM
I think this person is trying to say the characters of Bart and Skinner becoming friends i unrealistic, not the fact that a student and a principal becoming friends is unrealistic. It's like saying Homer and Ned Flanders becomign best friends is totally unrealistic, but two neighbours becoming realistic is very common.

IAMHOMER
02-28-2006, 12:06 PM
That's what I meant in my opening paragraph. If I'm going to play devil's advocate, I think the guy meant that the idea of a student becoming friends with his ex-principal is unrealistic if the student in question is constantly misbehaving and getting bad grades like Bart was. I think he was implying that he could understand it if Bart was a model student like Lisa, but he isn't, so why is Skinner interested in Bart's friendship? But the execution is easily good enough for the concept to be believable. If I have any criticism with this episode it's that, Apu's rant about Jurassic Park apart, this episode is relatively weak with the humorous stuff as opposed to the more serious and emotional (which works very well), and some of the jokes did fall flat for me ("a walking clock", Willy baring his chest and going "then grease me up, woman!", Homer insisting on taking the dog and then Maggie to work, "skim milk", also the joke with Bart needing a nemesis and Maggie's being the baby with the one eyebrow was a bit overdone).

TheFlandersMan
02-28-2006, 05:09 PM
10/10. I just think it's a fantastic episode. Everything works for me. Not much I can really add.

Imperciph
02-28-2006, 10:41 PM
If I have any criticism with this episode it's that, Apu's rant about Jurassic Park apart, this episode is relatively weak with the humorous stuff as opposed to the more serious and emotional (which works very well), and some of the jokes did fall flat for me ("a walking clock", Willy baring his chest and going "then grease me up, woman!", Homer insisting on taking the dog and then Maggie to work, "skim milk", also the joke with Bart needing a nemesis and Maggie's being the baby with the one eyebrow was a bit overdone).

We all know humour is a pretty subjective matter, but I think even in terms humour, this episode > Homer Goes To College. :p

And I am a little curious why Homer trying to take SLh and Maggie to work fell flat for you. That's just classic warped Homer logic : he thinks bringing a baby or dog to work will help him to get out of work. I can understand why Maggie's nemesis joke may not have worked for you, but the fact they made it look so serious and sinister was hilarious enough for me.

joshweinstein
03-01-2006, 11:05 AM
Hello!

I've enjoyed lurking about during this discussion but thought I'd jump in for a moment to talk about the origin of this episode.

This episode was based on 3 things:

1)Observations about the teachers at the high school Bill and I went to: though they might carry themselves with authority in school and in the classroom, outside of school, many seemed to lead lives that were somewhat lonely and even a little sad.

2)The observation that when you see a teacher out of school, it always seems odd and sort of humbling for the teacher (they suddenly seem like small ordinary human beings again) and it's very odd to see them go about their everyday lives outside of school.

3)Our love of Skinner and all things Skinnery. Thinking about it, this episode may be the beginning of our desire to explore the lives of secondary characters.

Imperciph is so right that humor is subjective. A lot of humor in this episode is of the observational type -e.g., there's no real joke in Skinner asking Bart if he'd like a "Caffeine free diet cola or an individual fruit cocktail cup", it just seems so real that to, some of us, it's funny. Same goes for Skinner's Mom asking him if he wants to know when it's 7:30.

I think the best episodes have a mix of humor - a blend of these really observational lines with sillier, more jokey-jokes.

I do like this episode a lot and, of course, I love to see people discuss our work. So, thanks.

Bye.

Green_Peaness
03-14-2006, 05:07 PM
A lot of humor in this episode is of the observational type -e.g., there's no real joke in Skinner asking Bart if he'd like a "Caffeine free diet cola or an individual fruit cocktail cup", it just seems so real that to, some of us, it's funny. Same goes for Skinner's Mom asking him if he wants to know when it's 7:30.

That's the best kind of humor imo

TheFlandersMan
03-14-2006, 05:16 PM
I agree that it's very funny.

Dental Plan!
10-15-2006, 11:18 PM
Why so few posts in this thread? Anyway, this is one of my favourite episodes of all time.

Ivan
10-15-2006, 11:23 PM
Maybe because this thread died over seven months ago.

Burnin'
10-16-2006, 01:08 AM
The relationship in this episode always made me feel uncomfortable, just the idea of a 10 yr old kid and a creepy lonely man living with his mom, visiting him in his room etc always struck me as odd

jim
10-16-2006, 02:58 AM
Somewhere between good and mediocre. Good, but forgettable.

Dental Plan!
10-16-2006, 03:37 AM
I know it's old, but I thought more people would have posted after Weinstein posted.

America: Fuck Yea!
10-16-2006, 03:38 AM
I often look to the "cartoon" known as the Simpsons for betraying realistic situations.

Dental Plan!
10-16-2006, 03:44 AM
Also, isn't this episode in season 6?

MrDonut
10-16-2006, 03:45 AM
a mischievous ten-year-old befriending his ex-principal is just not believable.

yeah, uh theres alot of things in the simpsons thats not believeable

sticking plutonium in your mouth and not getting sick.....sure

Bobo
10-16-2006, 10:15 AM
Also, isn't this episode in season 6?

Season 5, actually.

Anyway, I always thought this episode was one of the best of its season. I thought that Bart becoming friends with Skinner was believable, since he basically did it out of guilt. Honestly, I can't see how someone could refer to this episode as a "funeral".

Mcphee
10-16-2006, 10:59 AM
I really enjoyed this episode.

To me, it contains some of the best that "The Simpsons" has to offer. It has the emotional core that I crave in most episodes, it has the zany jokes, the parody, and the small, observational moments that I feel have slipped away in recent seasons.

Definitely some of my biggest chuckles in the episodes come from the little moments, like when Skinner is selecting a laundry detergent (Bold. Wisk. Fab. All.), and I absolutely love Skinner's mother in this episode because she's not so much a horrible wench (like she is now), and more a regular, weird, older mother. (Seymour! Your friend BART is here!... Seymour! Do you want me to tell you when it's 7:30?)

And, of course, this episode has the intro of Luigi, who always made me laugh because I feel like insulting customers at work ALL the time, and sometimes they do hear me. So it hits home.

In all aspects, a pretty damn good show. An example of Simpsons running on all cylinders.

Sniper Squirrel
10-16-2006, 11:11 AM
Really funny episode of season 5, loved both Skinner and Willie's performances, two of my all time favorite lines "There's nary an animal alive that can outrun a greased scotsman" and "I've had it with this school, the low test scores, class after class of ugly, ugly children"

Dental Plan!
10-16-2006, 06:39 PM
When exactly did Weinstein start working on the Simpsons then? Season 5?

somewhat
10-16-2006, 07:07 PM
When exactly did Weinstein start working on the Simpsons then? Season 5?

O&W started freelance during season 4 with "Marge Gets a Job", then, with the departure of Kogen and Wallodarsky, became part of the writing staff soon after. They were among the mere couple of writers from season 4 that remained on staff during season 5.

Dewey Finn
10-16-2006, 07:23 PM
This may not be the best episode in Season 5, but bringing conscience to Bart was surprisingly touching, with Skinner being very modest to Bart. I don't think humor had its moments in this episode, but it had hearts.

Just like McPhee said, the episode brings on the emotional moments (which I hardly see in these days) that's very touchy in very large aspect.

There was a drawback though. The next episode I watched after I watched this one was 'The Boy Who Knew Too Much': the episode when Bart immediately becomes an enemy versus Skinner again. I really felt uncomfortable on the episode despite the great humor and plot

TheForbiddenDonut
10-16-2006, 07:36 PM
The relationship in this episode always made me feel uncomfortable, just the idea of a 10 yr old kid and a creepy lonely man living with his mom, visiting him in his room etc always struck me as odd
Honestly, have you ever seen a child developing a friendship with a teacher? because it's not as uncommon as you're trying to get at. The whole friendship starts because of Bart's guilt, which is a key aspect of his character, and if you think about it, it is reasonable to feel guilty for unintentionally getting your principal fired when he didn't deserve it. It's not like the relationship was serious or intimate, and besides, you are being incredibly one-sided by pointing out every negative aspect of Skinner; he is still a reasonable man despite his living situation and it is not at all unusual for Bart to feel sympathy for a 'creepy lonely man', especially when Bart took away the last part of his life that made him complete. I, in fact, love this exploration of Bart: how he feels toward authority figures when authority has been stripped of them. It is a very original idea and this episode is easily a favorite of mine from Season 5.

Still, most of this has probably already been covered in the posts on page 1, so I'll stop here.

Mcphee
10-16-2006, 07:37 PM
There was a drawback though. The next episode I watched after I watched this one was 'The Boy Who Knew Too Much': the episode when Bart immediately becomes an enemy versus Skinner again. I really felt uncomfortable on the episode despite the great humor and plot
Yeah, if they had been really thinking about episode placement, they should have aired "The Boy Who Knew Too Much" BEFORE "Sweet Seymour Skinner".

Ah well, it's all a part of that thing where everything's normal again at the end of a TV show.

Dental Plan!
10-18-2006, 12:28 AM
I rewatched it last night, and I find the humour to be quite similar to that in 'Homer's Enemy', very observational, and no real 'Jokey Jokes', at least after act one.