WWE Thread

[D DEBBS]

Trump's "business proposition": he buys Stephanie so she doesn't have to write anymore...maybe now the WWE will have interesting and exciting story lines! (Hey, it's just my opinion.)

[Dr. Horrible]

how bout he buys you so you won't post here anymore

my money is that trump will say something about either austin or hogan at wm23

[BIG PETE]

Austin is God 3:16

[D DEBBS]

RAW wasn't on last night-had the dog show instead. Did USA reschedule?

[Dr. Horrible]

do u even watch the product for god's sake, theyve only been advertising everywhere that raw is on thursday

[D DEBBS]

^
I occassionally tune in during commercials, so I did not hear/see the promo.

For being nasty to me Boogie Down Mike, I have no choice but to sic my cat on you:

TYRANT....KITTY...KILL!!! (Good boy!)

[BIG PETE]

RAW was on last night. A hair match? Between Don and Vince? Without them wrestling? Meh!

Surprise surprise that Dusty Rodes is going into the hall of fame - hasn't he been on every episode of RAW for the last 3 months?

[Nebuchanezzar]

Good RAW ep, I felt. Carlito gave the promo of his life.

[Curtis]

Pay per view last night was pretty meh, it was just buildup for Wrestlemania. Batista attacked Taker which I guess was supposed to be a heel turn but the fans were behind him. Kennedy and Lashley fought to a DQ finish, once again another bullshit finish for the ECW title at a pay per view. Kennedy has so much talent, hes a great worker and amazing on the mic why the hell isn't he getting pushed over Lashley.

In very sad news...

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=173923515

Mike was a guy who I thought always put on great matches. His match with Masato Tanaka at ECW One Night Stand brought the house down. I kind of hated Mike after the whole ECW title controversy with him going to WCW but I always respected his work in the ring. He was only 42 :(

[Ndamukong Mike]

I might tune in tonight to see the Wrestlemania Storylines in action. Seriously though I'm betting I'll be disappointed.

[block02]

Curt Henning in the HoF.

About damn time.

Now if only Randy Savage, Rick Rude, Ted Dibiase, and Owen Hart could get in it.

[D DEBBS]

How do you guys fell about Miss Elizabeth getting inducted?

Hey, she was the first female who made an impact in the WWE-do you think the Divas would have started if it weren't for her?

Unfortunately, Liz's mom blames wrestling for her daughter's death, so this may not happen-just want to get some insight.

[Lounge Fly]

Taker is so played out its not funny.

[Dr. Horrible]

if liz gets inducted, she would have to wait before macho does

in other news it looks like austin might be the ref between umaga and lashley for mania

[BIG PETE]

In very sad news...

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=173923515


I guess he had no life after wrestling? Austin often described it as a drug, when your music starts and you walk through those curtains... Very sad news.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Indeed, that's pretty much my thought pattern on the manner. Sad news indeed.

People that buy PPV's in this thread should make their reviews longer. I don't read the crappy reviews on news sites, so coming here and seeing one would be even cooler, and better. Iuno. Who's buying 'Mania?

[block02]

I never buy the PPVs- I buy the ones I think are really good or important on DVD.

[Dr. Horrible]

you, sir are a true fan

[Curtis]

People that buy PPV's in this thread should make their reviews longer. I don't read the crappy reviews on news sites, so coming here and seeing one would be even cooler, and better. Iuno. Who's buying 'Mania?

I'll be at a friends watching it, so I'll attempt a review later that night.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/news/testecwreleased

I liked Test on his first WWE run and thought he would be perfect for the new ECW. Once I saw he was a roided up freak then I stopped liking him and his ring work wasn't the same.. not that it was spectacular in the first place. But I'm sure he will end up in the land of WWE rejects: TNA. He will be able to use his "Test" name since he actually changed his legal name to Andrew Test Martin.

[BIG PETE]

Heard that Hogan pissed off Vince on some other show by leaking that the hair vs hair match between Vince and Don was going to be Hogan (for Don) and Shane (for Vince). Now it all has to be changed.

[Dr. Horrible]

hogan actually leaked the hall of fame names not the hair v hair match

[D DEBBS]

^
Just goes to show how arrogant Hogan is (he's gonna give his daughter, Brooke, anxiety).

[Dr. Horrible]

it wasnt actually hogan's fault an idiot secretary inside wwe called hogan while he was doin a radio show when johnny ace was supposed to casll instead

[Dr Zaius]

So glad Tests gone. Hated him as the new posterboy for ECW.

[BIG PETE]

I'm with Curtis on this one. I really liked him in WWE - Stacey Keibler loved his testicles.

[block02]

Pretty old news but:

Expect Austin to be announced the guest ref for Lashley/Umaga and Randy Orton to win the final spot in MITB

[bauer]

God damn, Austin got a HUGE pop. Good to see him back.

[BIG PETE]

God damn, Austin got a HUGE pop. Good to see him back.

What? what's going on? <3 Austin :bow:

[Dr Zaius]

When Foley came out I was dissapointed. Then when he said "There's been a misunderstanding" my heart started pounding like mad. It was an excellent segment, very suspenseful.

[Dr. Horrible]

it's a shame a) he cant wrestle b) he probably won end up giving trump a stunner

but his movie does look pretty badass

[BIG PETE]

You just know that he'll give Vince one. Unfortunate that we are only hearing from him again because he has a movie out. Surely WWE could untilise him more.

[Dr. Horrible]

Okay folks Mania card is almost complete let's run it down and talk about it

WWE Title: Big Dave vs Undefeataker

I really hope batista loses

World Title: Fake Marine vs dXBK

I think this will be a great match and I'd like to see shawn get one last run, but a heel turn by cena to stay champ could be good as well

Battle of the Billionaires who aren't actually wrestling

Lindsay vs 1.5 Minute warning

I think it would be awesome to see a bald trump because that would get so much press....but Lindsay will probably end up winning

Money in the Mid-Card

Rated R vs Misterrrrrrrrrr Should be world champ vs. CM Internet darling vs G.I. Bro vs Painted Hardy vs Non-painted Hardy vs. Big Hornswaggle vs the legend jobber

i am really really torn about this, i'd like to see edge win again to keep his mania streak in tact but it looks like kennedy or punk may take it as orton will cost edge the match or vice versa

US Title

The Rabid lookformeonRaw-verine vs the guy voted on as the best by sportcasters

Look for MVP as the new champ here as Smackdown future GM vicky guerrero is going to move benoit to raw

The Big Red Eye Plucker vs. Arab Andre

Look for kane to do the wm3 flashback and slam khali to the mat and win

8 Man Tag (Extreme Rules?)

Look for me in *points thumbs* T N A/ Metu *points up*/Used to be in the front office/Austin Lite vs. Mordecai/Ex-teacher/Monty Brown/Elijah The Truth Burke

If they make this extreme rules, this could very well steal the whole show but i'd look for the new breed to get the win with sabu or rvd takin the job

women's title

this year's nude diva vs papparazzi diva (vs. former psycho?)

if mickie is added to this match it could be decent, if not it will be very sloppy and honestly i wouldnt be shocked to see ashley go over as the new champion

Probable matches

Whoooooooooooooooooooooo vs. Apple Spitter

should be a great opener for the card and i'd look for maybe torrie to turn on lito and ride space mountain

Tag Team Battle Royal

Londrick (WWE Tag Champs) vs Fake Gangstas vs Fake Rednecks vs Real Englishmen vs Bacardi and Cola vs K-Fed's buddy and faceplate (World Champs...if i had my way) vs La Extremestance

If this happens i'd look for an ultimate showdown between mnm and london and kendrick with londrick getting the win

[block02]

Mikel the names are a riot.....looks like an OK card but hardly WM quality(but then again none since X-7 have) Seems so many potential title matches are going to waste. Although I don't particularly mind the IC title not being defended for the 5th Mania in a row, I wish they would get it off Umaga simply because his having the IC Title suggests midcarder yet he is in a main event hyped match. Monday's RAW could have fixed a lot of this. Lashley should have cost Umaga the IC title against Jeff and Umaga could cost Lashley his belt. When MNM came out for Cena's match, I was praying for a tag title match to take place but no we get Cena vs. Nitro again

[Dr Zaius]

I'm rooting for Matt or Kennedy to win $ITB. I wish Kennedy would move to Raw as I don't watch SD.

[Matt B.]

Glad to see Stone Cold back.

[shark_vs_gorilla]

Anyone watch Smackdown? Besides me I mean. A few interesting things i picked up.

I was suprised to see fans already turning on Batista. I knew it was inevitable but I figured it would happen at Mania rather than during his match with Kane.

I hate to say it but I don't think Mr. Kennedy........... Kennedy is going to win MITB. Cole kept saying over and over that Kennedy was his pick to win and most of the time when an announcer makes a pick in a match like that, this is most often seen in the royal rumble, their pick does not win. So I'm guessing it will be either Orton or Jeff Hardy winning that match.

Other thoughts? Comments?

[block02]

Edge should win MITB for the sake of keeping his streak alive. It would be cool to see Punk take it, but I think he's still in the WWE doghouse. Kennedy's very entertaining, but I doubt he'll take it for the aforementioned reason. Orton's failure of a world title reign and bad backstage rep will probably prevent him from being the top guy ever again. Booker's main event swan song was probably last year. Matt and Jeff will probably take each other out of the match. Finlay's the dark horse of the match, but as awesome as it would be to see him win it, he simply won't.

[Dr Zaius]

No way would Jeff win it. Guy hasn't said more than two words since he returned. He's filler is all he is.

I can't believe The Rock was on Raw last night. That was awesome. I'm an Austin man, but it was damn good to see him again.

[shark_vs_gorilla]

I was shocked to see The Rock last night. Literally my mouth was just hanging open. I try to take that with a grain of salt because I doubt he'll be back on a regular basis.

A valid point about Jeff but even so I think he might be the most likely to win:
I see Edge and Orton taking eachother out then feuding after Mania since they cost eachother the MIB match.

Matt is incredibly over with the fans but he'll never get that big push from the office.

Kennedy probably wont' win because of Cole making him his 'pick' to win.

I'm guessing Booker's time on top is behind him as far as world title reigns go.

C.M. Punk I think still has heat from management and I just can't see Vince pushing an "ecw" wrestler over someone from Raw or Smackdown.

Finlay, well he's still a damn good wrestler. He'll be the best on Smackdown after Mania (since rumor is Benoit is going back to Raw) and while I can't see a specific reason why he wont' win I just dont' see it as a logical possibility.

* Interesting point on Raw last night JR mentioned that the winner of MIB could chose which champion they face. This is the first time I have heard of this. That might play a factor as well in who wins the match as well.*

One last thing, when Kane showed up last night I laughed my ass of. I thought it was rediculous that he had the meat hook on a chain. But the more I saw it and thought about it I think it's a good idea. Just hear me out now I think it gives his character a uniqueness and an edge that I haven't felt since he lost his mask. It works with his character just my opinion.

[Dr Zaius]

Benoit loses to Cena clean. I don't think I've been this outraged with a main event for a long time. That was the worst shit ever. I use to have no problem with Cena, I'm one of the many who hate his ass now.

On the plus side, I loved seeing Eugene get his ass beat and his head shaved. I hate Eugene with a passion and that was some good old school heel shit.

[Dr. Horrible]

cena going over benoit clean i hate to say it was the right move....i dont knwo if i would have gone the tap out method as a pin would have been jsut as appropriate, but benoit is strong enough on sd

[Curtis]

I hated to see Benoit tap to Cena. I'm so god damn tired of seeing this Rock-Austin wannabe shoved down our throats. I expect him to get booed out of the building at WM in Detroit. Usually Smarks are the ones to pony up the cash for WM, I expect them to be fully behind HBK and shit over Cena. In connected WM news, next years Wrestlemania is going to be in my city of Orlando. If I have enough money I'll definitely be going.

[BIG PETE]

I just saw this Wrestling Society X on MTV. As if it wasn't bad enough they had their first ever title match for their WSX championship. I totally thought it would be won by 6 Pac. Heh heh heh 6 Pac, just like X Pac... oh wait... That is so sad. Sadder than his porno with Chyna. With everyone jumping ship to TNA it is a sign of how much trouble Sean is when he has to go to something this bad. The audience of almost 20 seemed to all be well dressed beautiful people (not the kind of people who watch wrestling) - rent a crowd. And to only have one known name and not make him your inaugural champion and to have him lose to Vampiro (not early Edge and Christian) just some clown with kind of Sting makeup who spits blood like Tajiri's green mist is just sad.

[Ndamukong Mike]

Not really what one would call surprising but several pro wrestlers have been linked to steroid use through the online pharmacy raid.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2805155

Randy Orton, Shane Helms, Edge and Rey Mysterio just to name a few.

[Dr. Horrible]

i heard their gonna start a faction called Rated BALCO

[SideshowTim]

I think it would be awesome to see a bald trump because that would get so much press....but Lindsay will probably end up winning

man, trump would hate all that press!

trumps guy will lose. trump just wants a shitload of publicity and the only way he's gonna get it at the moment is if he gets his head shaved. he's the biggest publicity whore in the world.

[Lounge Fly]

has sikkbones been banned from this thread?

[MC RaZaR]

I want Trump to lose, but I doubt that is happening.

[BIG PETE]

man, trump would hate all that press!

trumps guy will lose. trump just wants a shitload of publicity and the only way he's gonna get it at the moment is if he gets his head shaved. he's the biggest publicity whore in the world.

Good point. Plus the added point that I learned this morning that "some of the proceeds of the match will be going to charity". How much money could Trump make in the shave-for-a-cure thing? However, I stand by my original belief that the only way Trump would shave his head is for a dump truck full of cash. I was going to say that "Vince didn't get to where he is today by throwing away money" but then I remembered how much money has been wasted (usually by Stone Cold) on The Rock's limo, Vince's Corvette, Trinatrons, the supermarket Austin and Booker trashed. hmmm Now I don't know which way it will go...

[Lounge Fly]

How the fuck can Trump lose when he wears a mother fucking wig?

[Imperciph]

How the fuck can Trump lose when he wears a mother fucking wig?

Maybe that revelation's supposed to be the big "twist" ending of the match.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Good point. Plus the added point that I learned this morning that "some of the proceeds of the match will be going to charity". How much money could Trump make in the shave-for-a-cure thing? However, I stand by my original belief that the only way Trump would shave his head is for a dump truck full of cash. I was going to say that "Vince didn't get to where he is today by throwing away money" but then I remembered how much money has been wasted (usually by Stone Cold) on The Rock's limo, Vince's Corvette, Trinatrons, the supermarket Austin and Booker trashed. hmmm Now I don't know which way it will go...

yeah, but all those things were like...the most memorable moments in wrestler ever.

[Mira]

Donald Trump is doing a hair vs hair? Sounds pretty ridiculous, I think I want to see it. I wish I still liked wrestling enough to watch it regularly.... Everyone who I was seriously into is gone though.

[BIG PETE]

yeah, but all those things were like...the most memorable moments in wrestler ever.

:LOL: Because this sure isn't hey?

[block02]

Time to do 'Mania predictions I suppose:

U.S. Title- Considering that this match has NO heat whatsoever, it will likely be the curtain jerker. MVP should have done a run-in during the Beniot/Cena match last week to give the feud some heat and to keep Beniot from looking like Cena's bitch. Since Beniot is expected to move over to RAW soon (and probably job to Cena again) MVP will likely take the title.

Originals vs. New Breed Is it going to be extreme rules or not? Should be a fun little match in any event. Burke and Striker are particularly fun to watch. Expect the New Breed to go over.

Women's Title- Won't be near the caliber of last year's women's title match, but Melina should be able to carry the somewhat improving Ashley to a decent match. I'm thinking this year's Playboy girl to win the title.

Money in the Bank- Let's break this one down: Finlay is there to direct traffic. The Hardys' purpose is to crash and burn bigtime. Booker is there to enhance credibility. Orton is there to keep Edge from winning. I'd love to see Edge keep his streak alive, but I've got a bad feeling it's not gonna happen for the aforementioned reason. Kennedy is Cole's "pick" so naturally he won't take it. That leaves the Punker to win it.

Khali vs. Kane I don't think even Kane is capable of carrying Khali to a watchable match. Kane's supposedly getting some time off after 'Mania, so The Great Empty will win.

Battle of the Billionaires- Lashley is painfully generic on the mic and in the ring, but I think Umaga and Austin can make this one a lot of fun. I think Lashley is a lock to win.

WWE Title- Well, whatever hopes I had of HBK taking the title from Cena are inevitably squashed considering Marky Mark took the kick on Monday. Expect Cena to retain, but HBK should bring entertainment to the match by playing the heel and selling his ass off circa '95.

World Title- 'Taker's gonna be carrying this match, make no mistake. If anybody deserved to take his streak, it was Triple H in '01. If he doesn't leave with the title, expect nothing short of a riot.

[Curtis]

The Official Curtis [the Jackass] Wrestlemania 23 Picks!!!

Kane vs. The Great Khali

The Breakdown: This will be a horrible match no doubt. The Great Khali will likely get over as Kane's job in the WWE is getting other people over. Basically he's the upper level Scotty 2 Hotty. Kane will try his best but Khali will stink up the joint.

Winner: The Great Khali

Chris Benoit (U.S. Champion) vs. M.V.P.

The Breakdown: Chris is likely heading to Raw after WM, so it makes sense for M.V.P. to pick up the strap. M.V.P. isn't that bad of a worker and he is solid on the mic. It makes sense for him to win the belt. Should be a solid match.

Winner: M.V.P.

Melina (Women's Champion) vs. Ashley Massaro

The Breakdown: I've never been a fan of women's wrestling, I don't find it entertaining because of the lack of quality workers but I do respect those who work hard and can put on a good match. I think Melina is good and can actually talk on the mic without sounding like a ditz. With that said, Ashley is the opposite. She does not deserve to win this match, but with her being in Playboy, WWE is going to milk that for all they can. In a match certain to be bland with a few botches thanks to Ashley I got her winning the title.

Winner: Ashley Massaro

Sandman, Sabu, Rob Van Dam & Tommy Dreamer vs. Elijah Burke, Marcus Cor Von, Kevin Thorn & Matt Striker

The Breakdown: The Millionaires Club vs. The ... wait, I mean The ECW Originals vs. The New Breed. No question who's going over here. Sandman and Sabu might not have jobs within the next couple of the months and Vince is trying to push his WWECW down our throats. Expect it to be a substandard match with a few nice spots with Sabu likely to go through a table. All in All this match is the lock of the night.

The Winner: The New Breed (Elijah Burke, Marcus Cor Von, Kevin Thorn & Matt Striker)

Money in the Bank Match: Randy Orton vs. Edge. vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. C.M. Punk vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Hardy vs. King Booker vs. Fit Finlay

The Breakdown: This one will definitely be the match of the night. Expect the Hardy's to do some crazy innovative shit with the ladders and with every guy in this match being a solid worker I'm expecting big things. This is a hard pick because they could go in a number of ways. I doubt Booker or Finlay wins because they are veterans and there purpose is to get the others over. Jeff and Matt likely wont win because they will be to busy jumping off the ladder through tables and whatnot. I don't think Randy Orton or Edge will win because I see them going into a feud with one likely screwing over the other. Although I do think Edge has a slight shot of winning again. (Which I wouldn't even mind, this guy should be firmly in the main event slot by now.) That leaves Mr. Kennedy and C.M. Punk. I want Punk to win, I really do he is the reason I watch WWECW. But I think they will go with the heel and I have no problem as Kennedy is an emerging star and highly entertaining.

The Winner: MRRRRRRRRRRRR. Kennedy ................. Kennedy

Battle of the Billionaires: Umaga (w/ Vince McMahon) vs. Broc.. I mean Bobby Lashley (w/ Donald Trump)

The Breakdown: I think this match will be entertaining, Umaga I think is a solid worker for a guy of his size and Lashley isn't to bad. There is no way Trump losses his hair in a wrestling angle though. This is the second lock of the night.

The Winner: Bobby Lashley

Batista (World Heavyweight Champion) vs. The Undertaker

The Breakdown: A few months ago I would have told you that Batista would end Taker's streak but the fans have really turned on Bats and reportedly the people backstage have too. It's in no way a lock, but I see the dead man continuing his epic Wrestlemania streak and picking up the World title along the way.

The Winner: The Undertaker

John Cena (WWE Champion) vs. Shawn Michaels

The Breakdown: I expect this match to be great.. because of the showstopper Shawn Michaels. Michaels will take hard bumps and make Cena look great. I hate John Cena, I really do and it pains to make the pick but I think it's fairly obvious HBK is just going to get WWE's Superman John Cena over. Michaels is my favorite wrestler of all time and I would love for him to get one last run especially at WM, but I don't see it happening. One thing I am looking forward to is the Wrestlemania crowd booing the fuck out of Cena.

The Winner: John "Invincible" Cena

[block02]

One thing I am looking forward to is the Wrestlemania crowd booing the fuck out of Cena.

Only question is will Detroit be as hostile as Chicago was last year?

[Curtis]

Detroit is a smark town and with Wrestlemania so expensive mainly smarks go as the average Cena fan is a kid or some drunk broke hick.

I have a reoccuring fantasy of Trips coming out of the crowd and smacking Cena over the face with a crutch, securing HBK the victory. Seriousley doubt it happens but I'd mark out like a little girl.

[Dr Zaius]

Benoit/MVP -MVP I guess. If that pushes Benoit into Raw, I'm glad. I don't get the watch SD because of the timeslot over here and I've missed the Crippler.

Originals/New Breed -Originals have been shat on enough. I'd like to see them win but it's like what's the point?

Women's Title -Who cares?

Kane/Khali -Who cares?

Money in the Bank -Only match here I'm excited about. I would like to see Matt Hardy win and climb to Edge and Orton's level. Kennedy's my favourite but it's not like he needs this match to take him to the top. The guy's the future as it is.

Battle of the Billionaires -Lashley absolutely no doubt.

WWE Title -Precious Cena as HBK got a sneak attack in last Monday. I'd like to see HBK win. I fucking hate Cena and would love to see him away from the title race for a bit. That title belt needs to stop spinning.

World Title -On one hand, Taker could win and end his career with a respectable 15-0. But it's possible a loss will be the WWE's way of passing the torch to a newer superstar, and Batista is a good choice. Nah, Taker will definately win. One of the titles will have to change hands and chances are that faggot Cena won't be strapped off anything.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Oh me oh my, John Cena better not win. OoOoOoOh. That would be the day that I have a nervous breakdown.

[Curtis]

John Cena es la freza del aka satan Vince McMahon. Shawn Michaels es buen luchador pero cada uno sabe que el mejor es Carlito y Rey Mysterio.

[bauer]

Really excited about this Wrestlemania. Last year's left a lot to be desired. I'm sitting here right now watching the countdown on my tv. I laid down the 49.99 for it, but I have a decent amount of people coming over (most of which are not even wrestling fans) to watch it. Should be a fun time.

[robb]

fuck. i can't find anywhere to go to watch it this year.

somebody post results in this thread?

[Matt B.]

The results so far...

The Undertaker def. Batista
Chris Benoit def. MVP
The Great Khali def. Kane
Mr. Kennedy won Money in the Bank
Lashley won, McMahon got his head shaved
Melina def. Ahley
Sabu,Sandman, and Dreamer def. New Breed

[Nebuchanezzar]

Does anyone have a pistol I can borrow?

[Dr. Horrible]

maybe you should judge the ppv by actually watching it

the was one of the best manias ive seen, in my top 5 manias of all time, only thin i was disappointed with was the womens title match but mercifully it was short

[Nebuchanezzar]

maybe you should judge the ppv by actually watching it

the was one of the best manias ive seen, in my top 5 manias of all time, only thin i was disappointed with was the womens title match but mercifully it was short

Yes, well you're in the minority aren't you? I didn't buy the PPV, nor was I actually complaining about the quality of the PPV. What I was complaining about though, was the asinine victory of John Cena. The WWE shows a contempt for the audience now. Honestly, what can we expect to see from Cena now that we haven't seen already multiple times? Every match is the same fucking thing over and over again that we've seen every night on RAW. He does the same interviews every night, the same damn story for every match, the same fucking formulas applied no matter what happens and yet he wins THREE MANIAS IN A ROW! It's bullshit.

[Dr. Horrible]

and like i said maybe u should actually watch the match and notice that cena and michaels put on a hell of a performance and blind haters that dont buy the shows but just bitch about the results because they think its the in thing to do just simply piss me off, why dont you watch the match then complain instead of just blindly being a cena hater because its what the "smart marks" do, cena shows the most passion of any of the world champions wwe had before tonight and doesn't really deserve the blind hatred anymore

[Curtis]

-What a below average Wrestlemania. The Money in the Bank match was great as expected and Edge breaking through a ladder was INSANE. I didn't think it would be possible for it to break. I like Kennedy more and more and it was awesome he won. Post match promo was kick ass. I was hoping he would save the show, sadly he did not as I'll explain later.

-The Great Khali-Kane match was terrible. One of the worst Wrestlemania matches of all time. Khali squashes Kane at the end. What a joke he has become.

-Benoit vs. MVP was an ok match with Benoit doing most of the work. It was a pleasant surprise to see Benoit pick up the win and retain the title.

- Batista vs. Taker was a great match I thought. Taker gave it his all and carried the match. Was entertaining with a few cool spots with Taker. Him diving out of the ring on Bats was awesome. Bats also put Taker through a table. Was really glad to see Taker win the belt.

- Umaga vs. Lashley was pretty alright, it got entertaining when Shane O'Mac got involved doing his cross ring van terminator. The guy is in his 30s and is crazy athletic. Vince got shaved no surprise.

- New Breed/Originals match was boring. Was surprised to see the old guys pick up the win. It would have made sense to put the young guys over.

- Ashley vs. Melina SUCKED.

- The Shawn Michaels of old was in this match. The arrogant cocky heel and the crowd loved every minute of it. Cena got booed out of the building. I really am still to angry to go in detail with this match but Shawn did an amazing job. In the end the WWE showed they give 2 fucks about the fans and had Cena make Shawn tap. I have never been so angry with an outcome of a match. Immediately when Shawn tapped they showed the crowd and scores of people were leaving, not wanting to watch Superman Cena celebrate. I fucking hate this guy. How can WWE keep pushing him as top face when 70,000 people out of 80,000 are booing him mercilessly. I was hoping Kennedy would come out and cash in his money in the bank, never did. I'm fucking pissed.

[tones]

was there. somewhat disappointed, but had a good time. wwe is seriously in need of a cult of personality... there is something lacking there (also not of a fan of neo nu metal cookie cutter wrestler types).

khali is a sick fucking excuse... end this bullshit.

[duffless89]

Yes, well you're in the minority aren't you? I didn't buy the PPV, nor was I actually complaining about the quality of the PPV. What I was complaining about though, was the asinine victory of John Cena. The WWE shows a contempt for the audience now. Honestly, what can we expect to see from Cena now that we haven't seen already multiple times? Every match is the same fucking thing over and over again that we've seen every night on RAW. He does the same interviews every night, the same damn story for every match, the same fucking formulas applied no matter what happens and yet he wins THREE MANIAS IN A ROW! It's bullshit.

4, actually.

WMXX: Defeated Big Show to win WWE United States Championship
WMXXI: Defeated JBL to win WWE Championship
WMXXII: Defeated Triple H to retain WWE Championship
WMXXIII: Defeated Shawn Michaels to retain WWE Championship

I'm kind of indifferent towards Cena (don't hate him, don't like him), but I hope we don't end up with another Undertaker-like streak with him...

[shark_vs_gorilla]

and like i said maybe u should actually watch the match and notice that cena and michaels put on a hell of a performance and blind haters that dont buy the shows but just bitch about the results because they think its the in thing to do just simply piss me off, why dont you watch the match then complain instead of just blindly being a cena hater because its what the "smart marks" do, cena shows the most passion of any of the world champions wwe had before tonight and doesn't really deserve the blind hatred anymore

Now I didn't order the PPV either but I do agree with what you said in that I feel that Cena shows tons of passion and love for what he does. He's not the best wrestler out there but I think that he tries his best. He really does care alot about the fans though and that is what gives me a lot of respect for him. Last year I went to RAW in Columbus. Cena wrestles in the main event and immediately after that is in the dark match against Edge and HHH in a three way cage match. After the cage match, instead of walking back up the ramp like most would do, Cena went around and high fived all the fans around the ringside area (including me ^_^ ) It was really cool to see him go out of his way like that to give a little something extra to the fans.

[Dr Zaius]

Cena's a terrific guy off stage from everything I hear. I wish the WWE would stop the superman crap and take him off the title picture. Maybe make him heel. I don't want to hate the guy.

Cena entrance at WM was once again, gay. As if his gangster etrance last year wasn't bad enough.

[Curtis]

The Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was.

After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

I'm not the only one pissed about Cena's in ring work.

[shark_vs_gorilla]

First off that link caused random windows to pop up all over my computer please remove it.

Second if that is the story i have read elsewhere there are some flaws in it that I realised after watching the match again:

1) it states that HBK worked over Cena's leg in the first few minutes of the match. That is false as HBK worked over Cena's arm in the first few minutes.

2) It states that HBK got in Cena's face after not selling the leg work. The whole time HBK worked over Cena's leg he sold it even going so far as to use the ropes to support himself. While he did stop selling the leg work during his superman comebacks this all happened AFTER HBK got in his face.

3) After going back the "story" has been taken off the site I found it at (prowrestlingscoops.com) furthering my belief that this alleged "heat" HBK had with Cena is just a rumor more than likely thought up by an anti-Cena smart mark.

Not everything on the internet is true y'know ^_^

[Nebuchanezzar]

and like i said maybe u should actually watch the match and notice that cena and michaels put on a hell of a performance and blind haters that dont buy the shows but just bitch about the results because they think its the in thing to do just simply piss me off, why dont you watch the match then complain instead of just blindly being a cena hater because its what the "smart marks" do, cena shows the most passion of any of the world champions wwe had before tonight and doesn't really deserve the blind hatred anymore

"blind cena hater", yes, let's resort to using semi-retarded, convinient words to simply tu quoque the anyone who disagrees with you. Well done sir, you've clearly backed up your opinion with not only facts, but also logic and coherent thought.

I never once insulted the quality of the match, and yet you put forth an entire argument insisting that I have, constantly ramming this "watch the damn match" thought down my throat. I don't hate the match, I hate Cena.

I have reasons for hating Cena. It's the same tired shitty shtick every night, regardless of who is facing whom. Hey, maybe Mania rocked. Who gives a shit though, because I can guarantee that it's going to return to the same tiresome shit on RAW that we've been seeing for three years now. Cena looks as if he's going to lose, he does the same moveset again and again and comes out on top with a very emotionless victory. He might then cut a promo. What will the promo consist of? Probably a few of his catch phrases (which I'm not overly fond of either) and some random yelling. Cena himself is quite shitty, but I can forgive him for that based on the idea that MAYBE I'm not being terribly objective in my hatred. What I can't excuse, is the constant repetitious bullshit which we've been fed for three years, and evidently, for a long period in the future too.

I don't like reptetition in wrestling. Maybe you do, that's fine, I'm just saying that I don't. What made WCW shitty towards the end was the constant nWo rehashes. What made the Attitude era fresh, was the constant swapping of opponents, turns of both McMahon and Austin in a whole host of ways and lots of fresh angles. They became stale, and the attitude era ended. What we're stuck in now, is a foofaraw of shit. A quagmire of mediocrity. I'm a blind Cena hater? Fine, but at least I know why I hate him. May I enquire as to why you like Cena?

What's that? You like him because HE SEEMS LIKE A HARD WORKER? BECAUSE HE'S PASSIONATE? Fuck me dead! Who gives a shit? I don't watch wrestling to watch nice guys, I watch it to be entertained. I'm sure that Ahmed Johnson was the nicest guy around, but he was a bore! Get him off TV. The same applies with John Cena.

[Dr. Horrible]

It's pretty damn obvious from reading absolutely any thread about Cena on any wrestling site that he has a lot of detractors. Listen to his reception last night and it's equally apparent that there are still a lot of people that are prepared to boo him at live shows. For all the negativity that i've directed at WWE over the years, i don't hate Cena.

Cena has worked his damn ass off for the company, possibly more so than absolutely anyone else in the history of WWE. He's done movies, tours, signings and just about everything else and all this while remaining on tv. He's sold merchandise at every corner and for large periods had the fans eating out of his pocket. he is over with the vast majority of casual and mark fans, and that is where WWE's money comes from. How many people sat here and said they wouldn't order WM because it wasn't worth $50? Why should WWE cater to the IWC when the vast majority of them don't put money in their coffers, aside from attending the odd show in theri area. It's the fans that attend the Live shows AND buy the merchandise, the fans that order all the PPVs that WWE should cater too, not the internet smarks, and by having Cena as champion, that is what they are doing.

As for Cena's supposedly limited arsenal, that is the arsenal he is given by WWE to work with. It's been stated many times that Cena CAN wrestle, as demostrated when he originally debuted and more recently against Umaga, but people still continue to overlook this and levy the same charges against him about repetitive moves and wrestling the same match. Answer me this, how many moves did Stone Cold Use? What about The Rock? Hogan? Even the proposed wrestling greats like Angle, Benoit or the "excellence of execution" Bret Hart? Every single one of them wrestled the same match every week and the active ones still do. That's right, Bret Hart was nothing but a spot monkey. Different kinds of spots to what we immediately associate with that term, but a spot monkey all the same. In all honesty, there have been VERY few innovative wrestlers in WWE, beacuse that is not how they want their guys to wrestle. The want the same backwards and forward holds followed by signature and finishing moves. If Cena's arsenal seems limited, it is due to WWE, not Cena. To throw that charge at hima nd then idolise others who do the same is nothing but pure hypocrisy.

Now, where i am in agreement with a lot of the IWC is Cena's reign as WWE champion. I think that Cena has been a tremendous champion for Raw these past two years, but that's the problem; It's been two years. JR said it himself last night. In the previous 24 months, Cena has been champ for 20 of them, and the only interruptions were a couple of short reigns by Edge and RVD. It's time for a damn change. WWE are so shit scared of the fans turning on Cena that they think dropping the belt will harm him. They should just accept that they may have spent five years building Cena, but the fact remains that some people aren't gonna like him. They also need to realsie that HHH was the most hated man among the IWC for so long because of his percieved hogging of the title, and now they are making the exact same mistake with Cena. I know that i stated previously that the WWE should not be catering to the IWC, but when those feelings roll over into the casual fans as they did for a period last year when hating Cena was the cool thing to do, they ahve a problem. They need to realise that Cena is established enough by now to be a main player without the belt. Would it really kill the years of hard work to have him involved in a decent high level feud with someone away from the title scene? That's another problem. With the way WWE is set up right now, a feud cant be seen to be important without the belt or big names. They've done an awful lot to rectify that this past year with the DX -McMahon and Rated RKO feuds, but even then those feuds were the main things going on on Raw. WWE seems incapable of acrrying two good solid feuds at the same time any more. That is a part of the reason why i think that Cena is still champ, as without the belt or devoting the majority show to his feud, WWE wont be capable of maintaining his momentum.

[Imperciph]

Yep, that's the main problem I too have with Cena and actually I had the same problem Triple H as well. Complete domination one title by the same wrestler for extended periods of time leads to increasing predictability of feuds which in turn leads to disinterest/apathy. And if one is already indifferent about the outcome of a match/feud, no matter how great of a performance the athletes put in, he wouldn't enjoy it.

[shark_vs_gorilla]

As much as I do like Cena I have to agree with the general feeling that he has held the title too long. 20 out of 24 months is too much for anyone. The title has to change hands more often to keep fans interested. But it also can't just be passed back and forth either because that too can become stale over time.

I think it would be good for Cena to lose the title soon. Honestly I think a loss would do nothing but help him in terms of his character and his acceptance with the fans. The role he is cast in now they have him portrayed as this superman who can overcome anything no matter what. Losing the title would help humanize his character and make it easier for the fans to connect with him

[Curtis]

My problem with Cena is that he does not deserve to be where he is at. He was pushed to the top of the business within less then three years of experience on the main roster. He is so green in the ring for a main eventer that it is pitiful. Guys like HHH and HBK have to carry him to make him look good and even then Cena finds a way to fuck it up. (Read my earlier post on HBK because irate) The excuse that well Cena sells merchandise is a stupid reason to justify him staying at the top. There are numerous guys who if in Cena's situation at the top of the card would easily make as much money or even more because they are not only over with the marks but over with everyone else as well. Guys like Mr. Kennedy, CM Punk and Edge, who although a main eventer, hasn't been given the strap in awhile. Those guys are great wrestlers and charismatic with unique personas that aren't so cookie cutter boy scout-ish like Cena. Also I think Cena is NOT as good at cutting promos as many give him credit for. Often a cringe at his futile attempts to sound like the Rock. It's pathetic. When Triple H was at the top of the business and held the world championship for so long, I didn't care. Trips is a guy who busted his ass to get from the bottom of this business to the top, and busted his ass to be great in the ring and on the mic. Cena was spoon fed to be where he is at now and it shows with his poor ring work. During Cena's rise to power they had him go over great wrestlers with cult followings like Christian, Kurt Angle and namely Chris Jericho. This started the fan backlash which has been growing especially with his superman "Cena overcomes to odds again" run. I have never seen the company's top babyface get booed so much as Cena has. They either need to turn the guy heel or have him drop the strap because they are only hurting themselves. Sure there making money but get a guy who appeals to the entire audience like Punk or Kennedy and you can make even more while pleasing the fans and putting out a better product.

[Dr. Horrible]

Someone making money is a dumb excuse to keep him at the top of your card?

Smart business planning Curtis.

[Curtis]

Did you read the part where I said there is other more viable options for the top of the card who could earn just as much money if not more? Guys like Edge, Kennedy and Punk are almost universally over and are not only great wrestlers and talkers but have a great look and persona. Based on that and there appeal to the whole wrestling audience it would make sense to put them at the top to earn MORE money. Because they appeal to almost all wrestling fans including the IWC. The marks will eat up anything thats given to them, when you got a guy who can sell merchandise beyond that, thats when you start making a lot more money.

[Dr. Horrible]

last time i looked edge and kennedy were bonafide maineventers too

punk is too new to be opushed to the top right away

and di u read any of my post where i talk about cena just feeding inot the same trend that every single other face champion does, austin, shawn, bret, flair, benoit, angle, taker all of them end up having an "overcome the odds" thing more often than not because they are the faces and if they are a doinant face champion no one will care whereas if they get beat down by heels then come back in grand fashion (i.e. every fucking hogan angle ever) thats when u sink the fans in and make more cash

[shark_vs_gorilla]

i fail to see your logic in all of this true Edge is univerally over but he's over as a HEEL. Heels dont' generally sell the most merchandice. The same goes for Kennedy except his crowd reaction is more mixed he still is a heel and a damn good one at that. While Punk may be over as a face, he's a face in "ecw" and doesn't get much exposure except for the past few weeks in the build up to and the actual MIB ladder match.

Cena is still cheered by many it's not like he's booed by everyone in every arena. I do agree it would be better if he dropped the strap but there is no reason that he shouldnt' be a main event star. He busts his ass doing what he loves. He's doing the best with what he is given in the sence that it's the creative team laying out and scripting the matches. He's a good wrestler and a good talker but like many in the WWE he is not being used as well as he could be.

edit: this post was in responce to Curtis' last post just to clarify ^_^

[Curtis]

I know Cena is a nice guy and all that shit and he may have a passion for the business but it sure doesn't show in the ring. He is definitley not even a "good wrestler" in the ring. He no sells everything, it drives me nuts.

[shark_vs_gorilla]

I honestly think he'd be better if he got to showcase his skills better. I think the creative team wants him to be a street fighting type of wrestler. If wrestlers had the freedom today like they once did, to be able to call a match as they were wrestling I think we'd see a lot more out of not just Cena but others as well. But when all the spots are layed out in advance there isn't much room for the performers to be creative with it or change it depending on the audiences' reaction.

[Curtis]

Dude its not just a matter of Cena not having enough moves its everything about him in the ring. He is HORRIBLE at selling and is just so bland and boring. WWE creative doesn't tell wrestlers there style. The agents pick who wins and the finish everything else is done by the wrestlers. They get together and talk about what they plan to do, the spots etc. Cena can't go beyond his normal moveset cause he doesn't know any other moves.

[Dr. Horrible]

actually curtis yes they do, wwe writers and road agents basically control 95% of what goes on in matches as far as styles, spots, rest holds, etc. as a wrestler gets more and more popular their moveset and style tends to get a lot more conservative on a weekly basis so they dont injure themselves, take a look at cena in his debut match against angle then tell me thet man cant at least work a good match

[Dr Zaius]

Also, Cena's not that good looking.

And I hate those orgasmic facial expressions he makes when he locks in the STFU.

[Nebuchanezzar]

It's pretty damn obvious from reading absolutely any thread about Cena on any wrestling site that he has a lot of detractors. Listen to his reception last night and it's equally apparent that there are still a lot of people that are prepared to boo him at live shows. For all the negativity that i've directed at WWE over the years, i don't hate Cena.

Cena has worked his damn ass off for the company, possibly more so than absolutely anyone else in the history of WWE. He's done movies, tours, signings and just about everything else and all this while remaining on tv. He's sold merchandise at every corner and for large periods had the fans eating out of his pocket. he is over with the vast majority of casual and mark fans, and that is where WWE's money comes from. How many people sat here and said they wouldn't order WM because it wasn't worth $50? Why should WWE cater to the IWC when the vast majority of them don't put money in their coffers, aside from attending the odd show in theri area. It's the fans that attend the Live shows AND buy the merchandise, the fans that order all the PPVs that WWE should cater too, not the internet smarks, and by having Cena as champion, that is what they are doing.

That's blasphemous. To suggest that Cena has done more for the company is both unevidenced, and a little silly. He's been the champ during an extended down period, so naturally he's going to have done a lot less. He doesn't have the popularity that Austin, Rock and Hogan had...in fact, he has nothing working towards your theory.

But even if that was true, it's a moot point. I don't care if Cena works hard. I EXPECT that of a champion. I expect every champion to do everything you said, and thus far pretty much every champion has done so. Yes, Cena does a lot, but it's his damn job and it's no reason to either not boo him, and show unwavering support for him, nor is it a reason to discount anything else that I said.

As for Cena's supposedly limited arsenal, that is the arsenal he is given by WWE to work with. It's been stated many times that Cena CAN wrestle, as demostrated when he originally debuted and more recently against Umaga, but people still continue to overlook this and levy the same charges against him about repetitive moves and wrestling the same match. Answer me this, how many moves did Stone Cold Use? What about The Rock? Hogan? Even the proposed wrestling greats like Angle, Benoit or the "excellence of execution" Bret Hart? Every single one of them wrestled the same match every week and the active ones still do. That's right, Bret Hart was nothing but a spot monkey. Different kinds of spots to what we immediately associate with that term, but a spot monkey all the same. In all honesty, there have been VERY few innovative wrestlers in WWE, beacuse that is not how they want their guys to wrestle. The want the same backwards and forward holds followed by signature and finishing moves. If Cena's arsenal seems limited, it is due to WWE, not Cena. To throw that charge at hima nd then idolise others who do the same is nothing but pure hypocrisy.

Ok, ok, say that is true then. Say that Hart was of equal ability as Cena (not true, but that's a difference story). You're not exactly doing a great job of defending him though. Even if Hart was shit, it doesn't make Cena any less shit. You can't defend one guy based off another guy doing just as bad. Oh, I just murdered someone but it's ok because someone else supposedly murdered someone as well. Cena is a shitty wrestler, in comparison to contemporary peers like Edge, HHH and HBK, and he's shitty compared to the great of the past, such as Hart and Stone Cold.

Yes, Stone Cold and The Rock did very similar moves quite often. That's probably true. What was different about them though, is that they were entertaining. Austin made the matches fun. I'm not sure how he did it. I'll have to look into it. From memory, it was a combination of great timing and an awesome character, and the latter is something Cena just doesn't have. Austin was hilarious, as was The Rock. Maybe you find Cena hilarious, maybe you enjoy never ending juvinille boob jokes and penis references. It worked in Foleys autobiography, but it ain't working here. Why is that? Probably because Cena is an amalgamation of mediocrity. He has no character, he salutes for no reason, he has the depth of a wet boot. Ooh look, he started yelling towards the end of his interview. Who gives a shit? Anyone can do that, but this guy is the WWE CHAMPION. For fuck's sake, let's see something besides plain ol mediocrity for THREE WHOLE YEARS!

I agree entirely with what Curtis has said, and I find what Mikel has been saying in response to be awfully ignorant. "That's smart business planning" FFS, read his post.

[Dr. Horrible]

no you see what was different was that you were entertained by rock and austin because you were a little closer to the age of the children that scream and cheer for cena now

i have not even remotely implied that cena and bret hart are comparable levels of skill, but once you become a champion or even an established star, you basically have the same match every week only you vary the spots

as wrestling fans become older they become more jaded and biased towards the stars they loved when they grew up as opposed to the stars that we have now, it's natural when we were younger wrestling still had the "must be real" aspect to it, and it is a very cyclical business..hell if we were given hogan vs andre as a mania main event for this year, we would shit all over it because neither man could really "wrestle"

and as i have said before watch some early john cena stuff, the man can wrestle and the man can work but when you are on top as a face champion your repetoir in the ring is greatly decreased by the wwe road agents because you dont need to pull out new shit every night

i eman lets break down the list hogan (punches, slam, beatdown, hulk up, YOU!, punch, punch, big boot, leg drop, pose) bret (work the leg, back breaker, elbow off the second rope, neckbreaker, piledriver, sharpshooter) austin (punch, punch, punch, finger, lou thesz press, spinebuster, stunner, finger, beer) rock (spine on the pine, ddt spinning or otherwise, punches, laying smack down punch, people's elbow, rock bottom) angle (go behinds, germans, belly to belly, top turnbuckle belly to belly, firemans carry, straps down, angle slam, ankle lock) hbk (punches, enziguri, dropkick, back body drop, flying forearm nip up, elbow drop, sweet chin music) i could really go on, because the guys lower on the card are allowed to do slightly more moves especially if they dont get over on their own merit, but most of the major champions dont need to pull out crazy moves every night to get a pop, hell ric flair has been wrestling the same match since basically 96...does that make him a horrible worker? no, it doesn't but we tolerate it because hes ric flair....your personal opinion is that you dont like cena because you think hes stale and has a superman complex, but put yourself in the mind of a yopunger kid (the people wwe markets towards) and then ask yourself why wouldnt u think this guy is awesome

and honestly, what did austin and rock do for the company outside of wrestling DURING their major title runs, sure rock is a movie star now but beyond that he had one flcik while he was a champion and one appearence on snl, meanwhile cena has not only filmed a movie, promoted it, did an album, done overseas tours, countless talk show appearences, all without taking time off to do so, and all while still being on top as champion as getting a huge reaction in each and every arena he enters whether it be positive or negative

[Ndamukong Mike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxU4iYgcumQ

This shit is gold.

[Dr. Horrible]

anyone shocked that sabu, steiner, and goldberg monopolize most of that video?

[Nebuchanezzar]

no you see what was different was that you were entertained by rock and austin because you were a little closer to the age of the children that scream and cheer for cena now

Unevidenced claims...Anyway, I was cheering for McMahon as well as Austin back when I first started watching wrestling, so I doubt that I'd fit into that stereotypical mold.

i eman lets break down the list hogan (punches, slam, beatdown, hulk up, YOU!, punch, punch, big boot, leg drop, pose) bret (work the leg, back breaker, elbow off the second rope, neckbreaker, piledriver, sharpshooter) austin (punch, punch, punch, finger, lou thesz press, spinebuster, stunner, finger, beer) rock (spine on the pine, ddt spinning or otherwise, punches, laying smack down punch, people's elbow, rock bottom) angle (go behinds, germans, belly to belly, top turnbuckle belly to belly, firemans carry, straps down, angle slam, ankle lock) hbk (punches, enziguri, dropkick, back body drop, flying forearm nip up, elbow drop, sweet chin music) i could really go on, because the guys lower on the card are allowed to do slightly more moves especially if they dont get over on their own merit, but most of the major champions dont need to pull out crazy moves every night to get a pop, hell ric flair has been wrestling the same match since basically 96...does that make him a horrible worker? no, it doesn't but we tolerate it because hes ric flair....your personal opinion is that you dont like cena because you think hes stale and has a superman complex, but put yourself in the mind of a yopunger kid (the people wwe markets towards) and then ask yourself why wouldnt u think this guy is awesome

That's a whole host of pretty awful simplifications. I mean, go and watch a classic HBK match and you'll see a lot of stuff that everyone loved, including those moves. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that he did a whole lot more and even when he was doing the same moves over and over, they weren't presented in a mundane, formulaic way. When you see a Cena match, you know that you're on a set program towards the finish once he does his shoulder block. Granted, a false pin might be thrown in there. When you watch an HBK match from his heyday (not so much now), there was no such expectation. He finished matches out of the blue by kicking Mankind in the face by jumping off a chair and stuff like that. Cena hasn't ever come close to that sort of spontanaity. Same goes for Austin. Austin was able to end matches out of the blue, for instance at WMXIV. Cena has never, EVER come close to being able to pull it off, and even when he comes close we see him so much that it's boring anyway. Yeah, I hate Cena for being on my TV for three years, but I also hate him for quite a few more reasons.

And for the record (once again), I don't care who is telling Cena to be shit (although once more, you've no evidence to suggest that anyone is forcing him to be shit), the fact of the matter is that he's still shit.

and honestly, what did austin and rock do for the company outside of wrestling DURING their major title runs, sure rock is a movie star now but beyond that he had one flcik while he was a champion and one appearence on snl, meanwhile cena has not only filmed a movie, promoted it, did an album, done overseas tours, countless talk show appearences, all without taking time off to do so, and all while still being on top as champion as getting a huge reaction in each and every arena he enters whether it be positive or negative

Lol. Getting a huge negative reaction when you're supposed to be the top face is by no means a good thing. I think you need to think before you say these things sometimes. But meh, Austin didn't record any albums, but he didn't need to. He drew in four million more viewers to RAW than Cena does, and his merchandise sold ten fold over what Cena's does now. Don't even try putting them on the same level.

[shark_vs_gorilla]

Well I think we've hit a stalemate here in the Cena debate. As far as I can tell both the anti and pro- Cena camps have made their points and there isn't much more to discuss. So let's all of us be civil and agree that we all are not going to see eye-to-eye on this matter. If anything I think we can all agree (and this is coming from a Cena fan) that it is definately time for him to drop the title and let someone else run with it. ^_^

[Curtis]

a someone like MRRRRRRRRRR. Kennedy ............... Kennedy

[shark_vs_gorilla]

Possibly. Nothing against Kennedy he's a great talker and wrestler. I just think that he could do more for Smackdown as champion. Because once 'Taker loses the title he'll most likely go back to being a special attraction wrestler again and it has also been rumored that Benoit might be moved to Raw sometime soon and if that is the case Smackdown couldn't afford to lose Kennedy too.

I'd actually like to see HBK get the title again it would set up some new feuds possibly with Orton or Edge just to give some new flavor to Raw since Cena vs Edge has been done to death. And if the aforementioned Benoit move happens I'd love to see him in the title hunt again.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Kennedy v HBK feud could be pretty interesting. Much more interesting than a Cena v Kennedy feud...

[Curtis]

Kennedy v HBK feud could be pretty interesting. Much more interesting than a Cena v Kennedy feud...

That would be awesome. Another feud I'd love to see is Edge and CM Punk. Have Punk be heel and shoot promos on how he opposes the Rated R superstars lifestyles. Both would work great matches.

[shark_vs_gorilla]

True both would work great matches in fact I would love a HBK- Kennedy feud. Punk- Edge would be good too but I can't imagine Edge being the face in a feud. He just works so well as a heel just one of those you love to hate.

[block02]

My dream feud for Kennedy would be with:








Chris Jericho. Imagine the promos.....

[Nebuchanezzar]

That's what they said about Cena & Jericho...which I guess was pretty good (and I loved it back in the day too). So yeah, go for it!

[Curtis]

My dream feud for Kennedy would be with:








Chris Jericho. Imagine the promos.....

Speaking of Jericho....

http://photos-581.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v72/223/86/501485233/n501485233_266581_8730.jpg

I met him, D-Von Dudley and Maven at the opening of D-Von's smoothie shop today. Chris is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time so it was really a honor.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Man, Chris Jericho looks pretty different these days. Pretty cool that you met him though I guess.

[Dr Zaius]

He looks a lot younger. Where is Jericho nowadays anyway? You should have begged him to return to the E and bitchslap Cena.

[BIG PETE]

He looks like he has trimmed down heaps.... but that might just be standing next to curtis.

Did he look like he could physically get back into it in the near distant future?

[Curtis]

Yeah he was in good shape, I told him I look forward to seeing him in a ring again and he smirked and said thanks. I was going to have him hold up a sign saying Cena sucks but he was in a hurry to get people done as he stayed a hour after he had to leave. Nice, cool guy just like I expected.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Did you have to pay for the autograph?

[Curtis]

15 bucks for Maven, D-Von and Jericho. I have a feeling it was D-Von's doing cause it was his place, Jericho seems like the type of dude that would never charge.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Mmmm, I don't get the idea behind charging people for autographs. It just seems so...seedy and cheap. I guess make money where you can, but still, iuno.

[BIG PETE]

I guess they know that so many people will just on-sell it on eBay. Maybe they should list their own autographs. I saw this article one time that there was higher bidding for a Wrestlemania program than a program signed by Booker T. sad....

[smyce]

So im only a casual fan, watch every now and then.

Why was Cena getting boo'd tonight on Raw?

[Curtis]

Cena has been getting booed for awhile now. I've hated the guy since he went through Christian, Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle in the begging of his push. Many people think he is corny, hes a horrible wrestler and hes being pushed as an unbeatable Hulk Hogan type hence why many smart wrestling fans boo him.

[smyce]

I dont give a shit what you think about him. He doesnt get boo'd as overwhelmingly as he did tonight. you may hate him, but the vast majority of the wrestling fans like the guy. I was just wondering if I missed the storyline where he turned heel.

[Dr Zaius]

That's the problem. He's not a heel but half the fans still hate him.


I found it ridiculous that the first 15 minutes of Raw had "some guy from the crowd" being flattened by a "400 pounder" and then five minutes later he's jumping up and down the ring celebrating. It's the kind of stuff that really insults you. I hate to go all Comic Book Guy, but fuck it.

[Dr. Horrible]

not to mention this "fan" is now the intercontental champion....sad days, this belt couldnt have been given to a guy like kenny dykstra or eugene or someone at least trhe fans know

[RCoehrs]

The Cena Question is one that has really shaken the WWE, But I give them credit for sticking behind the guy and the notion that he is the diplomat of the WWE to the world around.
As for me Personally, I don't hate the guy, I think he's doing what he's told and what sells, and no one in wrestling can be blamed for that, My trouble begins with the fact that in his earlier years he was a edgey and fun character and may I say a wrestler who was allowed to display some serious skills.

Do me a favor and watch his match versus the undertaker from the Tombstone DVD and you'll find although he was a shakey newbie, He handled it very well and was worth a look.

The Only other problem I have with Cena is that thier are other wrestlers that can fit in a nice array of moves, skills and mic skills that are above cena's antic moveset that could hold the belt quite comfortably in my eyes.

The I.C belt has gone the way of the Hardcore people, Be afriad be very afraid

[Curtis]

I dont give a shit what you think about him. He doesnt get boo'd as overwhelmingly as he did tonight. you may hate him, but the vast majority of the wrestling fans like the guy. I was just wondering if I missed the storyline where he turned heel.

He didn't turn heel and depending on the city over half the crowd hates him. He is over with women and little kids. I was giving reasons why I and OTHERS don't like him.

[Dr Zaius]

I loved that Cena got booed last night whereas HBK got a big-ass pop. So the hate's international.

[Dr. Horrible]

little kids are the vast majority of wrestling fans...

[robb]

15 bucks for Maven, D-Von and Jericho. I have a feeling it was D-Von's doing cause it was his place, Jericho seems like the type of dude that would never charge.


jericho just had a signing here, and it was like 25 bucks.

[RCoehrs]

I agree that most of the fans out there today are children and that because of this it makes sense to have Cena as your Champion, But we must recall that the fans of old are now the parents taking the kids to see Cena, which might be the largest part of the booers.

Speaking of which, I actually got to go to Wrestlemania this year and two things you noticed big time, The Kids and Women Cheering Cena and the men rolling thier eyes. I would too because men are usually shelling out the bucks for the shirts and posters at these events lol

[BIG PETE]

Yeah but I think that is why they gave Cena so many of Stone Cold's manerisms - he can't pull them off but it was obviously trying to get the father's into him as well as mum and the kids...

[Curtis]

I have a feeling they will turn him heel soon or have him drop the title, the boos are getting louder and louder. If he goes over at Backlash I might have to stop watching Raw.

[Dr. Horrible]

as long as cena sells merch he will be the champion, the boos only seem louder because the people booing him have deeper voices, but guess what? theyre still at ther arenas, theyre still shelling out cash to vinnie mac, hell some peopel even went to last years one night stand simply to boo cena

[Dr Zaius]

I'm glad I was a kid fan 7 years ago when we had guys like Austin and Rock to cheer. Younguns today got Cena. Fuck that.

[Nebuchanezzar]

as long as cena sells merch he will be the champion, the boos only seem louder because the people booing him have deeper voices, but guess what? theyre still at ther arenas, theyre still shelling out cash to vinnie mac, hell some peopel even went to last years one night stand simply to boo cena

Lemme guess. Another excuse that you're going to use to defend the most hated face champion of all time? Jesus, hey, maybe I'm wrong but show attendance/PPV buyrates/RAW ratings are still way down from what they can possibly get to. Is it not possible that having a shitty face champion for three years is part of the reason why all these things are still hovering around mediocrity.

[BIG PETE]

Vince is still unsuccessfully trying to find the next Hogan/Austin/Rock to pull the WWE out of the shit again.

[Curtis]

Three guys who need to be the faces of the company: Edge, Mr. Kennedy, CM Punk

[Dr. Horrible]

edge is one of the faces of raw, kennedy is one of the major faces of sd, and punk ios the face of ecw

i'm not going to get into another cena debate with you because its obvious that you just flat out dont like cena

the only reason cena is getting booed more is because the internet has taken away a lot of the mystique and kayfabe of wrestling and the so-called smart marks won't accept anyone as a champion that isn't a benoit or angle type wrestler or an established mega-star like taker or hbk, and raw ratings are back at the level that is pretty high in 4's and you have to remmeber that the time where the ratings were a lot hgiher were during the monday night wars when people actually had viable alternatives to wwe and it was during the wrestling boom period, wrestling doesn't have the outside hype that it did back in the late 90s and 2000 so obviously ppv buyrates and tv ratings aren't going to be as high, but if you are blaming cena for that and not the constant exposure of vince mcmahon on television than you dont know what the hell youre talking about

[Larson Something]

Myself, I think Cena's okay, it's just that I think that as a face, he works a lot better when he's chasing the title than when he's got it. I think that's the case with most faces, but it's more glaring with some characters. Austin was like that too for me. I just think that a six-to eight-month stretch without the belt would do everyone a lot of good, Cena included.

And I found this pretty cool: http://www.avclub.com/content/node/60907?utm_source=avclub_rss_daily

[Nebuchanezzar]

the only reason cena is getting booed more is because the internet has taken away a lot of the mystique and kayfabe of wrestling and the so-called smart marks won't accept anyone as a champion that isn't a benoit or angle type wrestler or an established mega-star like taker or hbk

Nice oversimplification of the people that boo John Cena there, Mikel. I can't wait for you next instalment of "bringing down wrestling fans intelligence as a result of glib analysis." Smart assery aside, you're relying on two falacies. The first, is that experienced wrestling fans boo Cena based on a preference for the Benoitish stars that you mentioned. If experienced fans, like myself are anything to go by, that's a complete lie. I hate Benoit. One would only have to read as far as a few of my posts on that wrestling website I visit pretty often to see just how much I hate him. I love HBK, but that's because he's immsenley skilled in all areas. So why do people hate Cena? I'm going to guess that it's a result of the billion reasons I've listed in this thread thus far. Why do I bother though? For every reason I give you're going to rely on the same old, tired excuse once again. "You hate Cena, therefore your opinion doesn't matter." Tsk tsk tsk.

and raw ratings are back at the level that is pretty high in 4's and you have to remmeber that the time where the ratings were a lot hgiher were during the monday night wars when people actually had viable alternatives to wwe and it was during the wrestling boom period, wrestling doesn't have the outside hype that it did back in the late 90s and 2000 so obviously ppv buyrates and tv ratings aren't going to be as high

So you're going the extra mile, or not only saying that the only reason I hate Cena is because I hate Cena, but you're now also claiming that the only reason why ratings were high during the attitude period was because of the competition? What baloney! I won't doubt that the competition between WCW adn teh WWF had something to do with it, but let's be honest, that ratings competition between them started post-WMXIV and ended by December 1998. 1999, 2000 and 2001 were all periods where the WWF absolutely decimated WCW in ratings. The reason, therefore, that ratings were so high in that period was not because of competition, but because the product was so good. McMahon was killing WCW from the beggining of 2000 onward, and he knew that it was over well into 1999. He didn't have to compete with them, but he had the brains to be able to structure a wrestling product properly, not around someone like Cena. Yes, McMahon is at fault for putting Cena so firmly in the spotlight. Once again though, that doesn't change the fact that John Cena is a piece of shit.

but if you are blaming cena for that and not the constant exposure of vince mcmahon on television than you dont know what the hell youre talking about

The WWE is built around its title, McMahon is not the champion, Cena has been on TV in a stable role for a longer period than McMahon, further proving the ludicrous nature of your statement.

[Imperciph]

Still, you certainly can't disagree that Vince's gimmick has become stale as hell and every feud he's been having are just trying to emulate the groundbreaking one he had with Stone Cold.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Most definately. Not as stale as Cena though.

[BIG PETE]

Seeing as how Stone Cold and Vince really did hate each other may have added to their on screen chemistry. Unfortunately Vince is that one dimensional he is unable to be beleivable in that or any other new role... even with that shit-house hat.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Do you even know the meaning of one dimensional, sir?

[Curtis]

Mikel Raw ratings are Not in the high 4's in fact I believe last week it was like 3.8. Most of the time it's high 3's and low 4's.

[Imperciph]

Diverting the topic a bit....

which post-2000 year would you guys rate as being WWE's best ?

[Curtis]

2002. Return of Shawn Michaels. NWO in WWE although their run got fucked up due to injuries and firings. Year started with Jericho as undisputed champ.

[Nebuchanezzar]

2001. As sloppy as some might think the Invasion was, I think they can suck my balls. Everything apart from the real WCW's influence was awesome. The product was fresh, hilarious and exciting. The Invasion started brilliantly and ended the same way in a joyous orgasm of excitement. Pre-Invasion product was the stuff of God, and Wrestlemania, its buildup and subsequent Backlash was totally awesome. I'd rate it as a 9/10 year.

[Dr. Horrible]

during the monday night wars wrestling was at an all time high in popularity so the ratings were much higher....from 4/6/98 to 9/24/01 raw was consistetly getting ratings above 4, that was the real high point in the monday night wars where wrestling was at an all time peak in popularity due to guys like rock, austin, goldberg, and the nwo......after that the ratings have been roughyl what they are doing right now because the overall popularity of wresling died down once wcw was bought and vince had no more competition, no competition means that sadly they dont have to try as hard for the ratings because people are going to watch anyway

the reason you hate cena is not based on fact, you say that cena is a piece of shit inside the ring, this is your opinion because you are simply not entertained by him, if you watch some of cena's older matches when he was on smackdown not only was he more entertaining on the mike but he did a lot more in the ring because he wasnt as valuable to the company as he is now, but since cena is thge top face of the company they have waterered down both his overall gimmick and his moveset, that is not the fault of cena's that is the fault of the road agents backstage and the writers doing his promos

and to say that cena has been a more permanent fixture on tv than vince mcmhaon over the past years is just a ridiculous idea, vince, since 1998 has managed to get more screen time than almost any champion youve seen in the past 5 or 6 years, sure there are periods when he takes himself away from tv but on the whole raw is vince mcmahon and when vince is involved with an angle (i.e. bobbly lashley or dx recently) he will take up loads of tv time and usually occuy either the 10:00 main event spot or the overall main event of the show

[-Bart-]

Diverting the topic a bit....

which post-2000 year would you guys rate as being WWE's best ?

2003, because there were great matches that year. and wasn't that the year where evolution had all the gold (exept women's champioship)?

[Nebuchanezzar]

during the monday night wars wrestling was at an all time high in popularity so the ratings were much higher....from 4/6/98 to 9/24/01 raw was consistetly getting ratings above 4, that was the real high point in the monday night wars where wrestling was at an all time peak in popularity due to guys like rock, austin, goldberg, and the nwo......after that the ratings have been roughyl what they are doing right now because the overall popularity of wresling died down once wcw was bought and vince had no more competition, no competition means that sadly they dont have to try as hard for the ratings because people are going to watch anyway

k. I don't see what you're trying to prove here though, as it has nothing to do with what I said. What I said, was that there's no doubt that competition created a better product, and it did so for about...a year. I'd say that there was a period of about a month in 1998 where the two companies were trading blows with one another to such a level, that the outcome couldn't be predicted. In fact, I do believe that Foley mentioned in his first book that from about mid-1998 onwards, anyone could have predicted who would have won the ratings on any given night. After mid-1998, things went down the shitter for WCW, and the WWF dominated ever since. If you accept that the high ratings period was from Wrestlemania XIV-Survivor Series '01 (and it was), then you'll also no doubt accept that the ratings war therefore had VERY LITTLE to do with anything. The WWF was getting high ratings NOT because of WCW, but because of their PRODUCT. There's no other explanation for it, none at all. The very best idea you could put forth for your point of view, is if you believe that the ratings of Monday night shows were zero-sum, and even then, it's a pretty flimsy idea.

Therefore, the reason why the WWE doesn't attract higher ratings anymore is NOT only because they have no competition (based on the fact that their peak ratings period was based in a time of very little competition, rather complete domination), but because their product mainly sucks. Why does it suck? It has been said on a thousand occasions that the single most important thing in the entire WWE, is it's championship. The company is built around that thing, always has been, still is. Think of any major moment in the WWF/E's history and I can almost guarantee that it'll have something to do with that championship. The championship scene, right now, is built around a hated face champion, with abysmal skills in almost all areas, who has been dragged through the mud, tied to a rope and flogged by the WWE for more than he's worth. He's a dead carcass swinging in the breeze, evidenced by the CONTINUAL hatred he receives despite being a face champion. The reason he's hated isn't because he's "controversial hence good", it's because he's tired, boring and shitty (IMO). While the shitty part may be subjective, the other two are not. It's about time someone replaces him. God damnit.

the reason you hate cena is not based on fact,

I hate Cena because:

I find that he doesn't have a character. I enjoy wrestlers with characters. I now enjoy Umaga, because he has a character. I enjoy HBK, because he plays a character (way better as a heel, mind you). I enjoy McMahon, because he plays a character. I semi-enjoy Lashley, because now he's playing a character. What character does Cena have? A marine dude? FFS, the only thing he does that even remotely resembles a character is that damn salute thing he does, and even then it's highly contradicted by his immature, rambling, incoherent mic skills. That brings me to...

His mic skills. They are shit. He's meant to be a tough guy, no? Why then, does a tough guy make penis references that a twelve year old would make, and why does he squeel every time he sees Marias boobs? This isn't the mic skills we need to see from a champion whose prime audience is in the 18-25 age demographic. This is shit. Apart from the subject matter, you've also got the fact that his mic skills seem kinda...forced, in a way. What he says seems a little pre-written, it's not organic, it doesn't flow. It is natural dialogue on par with comments such as "son of a diddly", or any of that other lame crap that Marge and Flanders have a habit of saying now. I'm not putting wrestling on the same level as The Simpsons, it's way shittier, but I'm saying that there needs to be at least a little semblance of realism in the dialogue. Cena doesn't provide.

His wrestling skills are poor. Yes, so are a lot of other peoples skills, but that doesn't mean shit. All of the other wrestlers in the WWE can be shit, but that doesn't excuse the fact that John Cena is the WWE champion, and has been for three years! He is the trophy guy, and the trophy guy is shit! He does the same moves, he progresses in the same manner each and every damn match! So do a few others? WHO CARES? I very, very, very, very much doubt that in those wrestlers matches that you can predict that they're gonna start their progression at any given time, and even if you can (HBK occasionally), their progressions are at least exciting. How can you compare a flying elbow drop to a fucking "five knuckle shuffle", the lamest, worst rip off of the People's Elbow ever. Yes, the People's Elbow was a little shitty, but once more it provided exictement. The Rock did those awesome limb swivels with grace, and the audience loved catching the elbow pad. The move was ludicrous to such a degree, that it became enjoyable. Cena? No such luck. It's mediocre mediocre mediocre all the way.

He also doesn't have a top lip. What kinda freak is he?

you say that cena is a piece of shit inside the ring, this is your opinion because you are simply not entertained by him, if you watch some of cena's older matches when he was on smackdown not only was he more entertaining on the mike but he did a lot more in the ring because he wasnt as valuable to the company as he is now

WHO CARES? We're talking about now, in this time of mediocrity, not what happened twenty years ago. Yeah, maybe Cena was ok a few years back. I personally don't care, because I'm pissed off with the product I'm seeing on TV now. He can be as good as he wants a few years ago, but it doesn't negate such an obvious logical fallacy, in that he's still shitty today! For the record, I could never enjoy Cena back in the day due to his white rapper gimmick, but I at least enjoyed hating him back then. I can't say the same now. It's quite sad (paraphrasing what Jafar said in relation to The Simpsons movie now) to see the WWE like this. It's like watching your drunk mother get up on stage at sing karaoke. It's not fun, it's just plain embarrassing. That's the way I feel about wrestling now, thanks mainly to such a tired, strained and unenjoyable title scene.

but since cena is thge top face of the company they have waterered down both his overall gimmick and his moveset, that is not the fault of cena's that is the fault of the road agents backstage and the writers doing his promos

You keep saying this, as if it means something. It doesn't. I don't care why Cena is crap, I just care that Cena is crap. You just admitted that he's crap, and yet you're still trying to debate this? Good God.

and to say that cena has been a more permanent fixture on tv than vince mcmhaon over the past years is just a ridiculous idea, vince, since 1998 has managed to get more screen time than almost any champion youve seen in the past 5 or 6 years, sure there are periods when he takes himself away from tv but on the whole raw is vince mcmahon and when vince is involved with an angle (i.e. bobbly lashley or dx recently) he will take up loads of tv time and usually occuy either the 10:00 main event spot or the overall main event of the show

I don't really care about what Vince has done in the past, once again, I care only for what he's doing now. No denying that he hogs the airtime, none at all. No denying that maybe he needs to get off the air. But still, his airtime is much lower than John Cena's. Go and watch RAW with two stopwatches this week (and next. Go and get yourself an average) and see who is on RAW for longer. I'm quite confident that I'll win.

[Dr. Horrible]

how did i admit that cena is crap, i find cena enjoyable im just pointing out a fact that the road agents and writers have tamed him since he first was on smackdown because he is the poster boy of the company and he doesn't need to do as much to stay the top of the company and all face champions are like that from hoga to bret to warrior to savage to flair to hbk to taker, every single face champion ahs a certain moveset they run through, they can always do more than what is in that standard moveset but they dont because its all the fans really want to see and stop stating your opinions as fact its really irritating

you know you can always just quit your bitching and turn it off if you really find it that deplorable

[Nebuchanezzar]

Like the other ~4 million or so fans that have done so since the Attitude era? Then I'd feel like a quitter, and that I'd be missing out on the product that doesn't have John Cena in it, which is mostly pretty goodish.

[Curtis]

Mikel no one is fucking telling Cena to have such a limited moveset. That is absurd. Please provide a link or something from where your getting that from? I follow wrestling inside out and have NEVER heard that. Cena's biggest problem even more then his lack of an in ring arsenal is his selling. The man is horrible at selling and it makes him look like Superman. I really have nothing else to say because I agree with Jimmy C 100%.

[Dr. Horrible]

curits he is being booked to be like superman, hogan did the same fucking thing, so did austin, so did shawn, so does taker, it's a big tendancy of any major face to get his ass handed to him for most of the match and have a superman comeback hitting all of his major spots to set up for a finish, every champion has this sequence of events

i don't need to post a link because the wrestlers dont make up their matches, they have some input but for the most part the road agents are the ones who put the matches together and if you dont think cena's inring arsenal has been severly shortened go watch his old stuff from 2002-2003

[Nebuchanezzar]

so did austin, so did shawn

No they weren't. I'd say that 'Taker and Hogan, in addition to Warrior and Yokozuna have been the only modern champions to be booked that way. Contemporary champions such as Angle, HHH, Jericho and Edge have all been booked as realistic competitors, who more often than not cheat to gain a victory, or at least don't dominate in such similar ways match, after match, after match. Even face champions of the last few years, Rock, Austin, HBK and early Cena lost fairly, and justly in a lot of matches, and didn't seem to have so many complaints lodged against them. I'm going to say that it's no co-incidence that Cena has had such a volume of complaints lodged against him, and I'm going to say that there's more than likely a very good reason why people are complaining.

[Imperciph]

Also noteworthy point of consideration is that Austin, Rock rarely had title reigns that lasted longer than 3 months and thus weren't guilty of overexposure of their "superman" like capabilities.

[Dr Zaius]

Bobby Lashley has character?

[Dr. Horrible]

shawn has the superman comeback in every match he's gonna win or come close to winning, the flyign forearm/ elbow drop off the top/ sweet chin music is usually the sequence of moves he runs through

austin was put inot more handicap matches and matches where the odds were stacked against him than cena and still came out on top

and ie never said that i think cena should have held the title as long as he has, i think he should have lost to shawn at mania and i think he should lose to either shawn or edge at backlash, but blaming cena for decisions that the bookers make is kinda unfair

[Curtis]

Dude, The bookers do not limit his arsenal. Seriously. You keep saying he was so great when he first debuted. He was sloppy then just like he is now. He was never a great wrestler. As time went on he found a certain moveset he was comfortable with. The bookers are not limiting his moves and thats a bullshit answer you keep throwing out. I have never read at anytime of them telling someone to stop being a good worker in the ring. Sometimes they say not to do a certain move for safety, creative reason (Someone else using a similar move) but never say oh limit your arsenal to this, thats ridiculous.

[Dr. Horrible]

Cena is not a great catch-as-catch can wrestler, this is obvious but to say that you don't notice a severe decrease in his moveset from 2003 to now is ridiculous, curtis the road agents basically control jusat about everything of how a match is laid out and what spots each man involved in every match will do, some times if you have real ring generals in there on a larger stage they can call their own matches, and of course you aren't going to read that bookers are telling cena to limit his moveset because you aren't backstage at wwe all the time, cena moveset is jsut like a lot of face champions where now they have safer moves to keep from getting injured because of the amount of money they have invested in their stars

[Curtis]

He was not great in 2003. He was so green he tried different things in the ring. He was still sloppy. No need to "teach" me about the way profession wrestling works. I know exactly what the agents do. They AND the wrestlers discuss the main spots of a match. And the important things to get across. Most of the spots are made up by the wrestlers. For example, Jeff Hardy came up with the crashing threw a ladder spot on Edge at WM. The agents do not tell wrestlers what moves to do and not to do. Cena can do new things if he wants. You have not provided one source that the agents are telling Cena to limit his moveset. People like Edge and Shawn Michaels are important too but they don't limit their moveset. You are flat out wrong about people telling Cena to limit his moveset.

[BIG PETE]

They AND the wrestlers discuss the main spots of a match. And the important things to get across. Most of the spots are made up by the wrestlers.

When Charlie Haas previously left the WWE he complained of how the writers will not listen to any ideas the wrestlers have. They will write what they think Vince wants to see. Any wrestler going over the writer's heads to a higher authority (not neccessarily Vince) will have their character basically written out. Their story lines will become such crap that the fans will hate them and Vince will say "The fans don't like you, you're gone!"

[Curtis]

Dude, thats the writers they come up with the storylines. I'm talking about the matches themselves, wrestlers for the most part come up with the different points of the match and spots. The agents tell them who wins and how. The rest is pretty much up to the wrestlers.

[Nebuchanezzar]

^That's true. Also, Cena is in such a dominant position now that he could definately say to Vince "Gee, let's try something else out." Austin, HBK, Taker, Foley...they've all done it. Don't feed me some bullshit story about Cena not doing it for some fucking phoney baloney reason. It's not true. Cena could make an effort, but he doesn't. He's a worthless piece of shit.

Bobby Lashley has character?

He smiles, gets into mischeif and generally fits the nice guy mould. That's half a character. Besides, I like Lashley. He's pretty cool to watch.

shawn has the superman comeback in every match he's gonna win or come close to winning, the flyign forearm/ elbow drop off the top/ sweet chin music is usually the sequence of moves he runs through

Two things to reiterate

a) HBK's moveset is exciting. Cena's isn't
b) Cena ALWAYS goes through his moveset, and doesn't do much else. HBK usually goes through it, but does soo much more in the ring.

[Dr. Horrible]

youre opinions are completely invalid if you think lashley has more character than cena

[Nebuchanezzar]

*your.

[Dr. Horrible]

damn what a main event last nite, awesome match from start to finish and was kept untarnished without run-ins or anything, i was shocked as hell cena and shawn brought their working boots/pumps

[Nebuchanezzar]

Indeed. I only caught that match, but it was absolutely in-cred-i-ble. For a RAW match, it was 9/10 material. The only thing that brought it down was the the first false finish occured way too early into the match. That's the only thing (plus a lack of big spots, but they should be reserved for PPV's anyway) that can bring it down, the only thing.

I won't lie. HBK carried the match moreso than Cena, but Cena did his work. Now only if he can get a semi-entertaining character and a bit of consistent quality then I'll have not very much against the man.

[duffless89]

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/superstars/mrmcmahon/photos1/vkmecwworldchamp/VKM_Champ_12.jpg

Because 60-year-old men are EXTREME!!!

[Dr Zaius]

You could feel the silence in the crowd when he made the pin. Vince may as well have just taken a giant shit in the ECW ring.

And Superman Cena prevails again. If I had something better to do Monday nights I'd stop watching Raw.

[Nebuchanezzar]

There's no emoticon to express how disillusioned I am at the product today. It's nothing but a complete contempt for the audience. They gave us that match to bribe us. Oh woe is me.

[Curtis]

The way the match ended was HBK superkicking Cena and him falling ontop of Orton to get the pin, yet when HBK did that to Orton a few weeks back it was somehow a double pin? Kennedy confronted Edge backstage earlier in the night, I was at Hooters and it was loud so I didn't get all of what he said but basically how he is now Mr. Money in the Bank. A feud between them two would be gold.

[Curtis]

It's to obvious it was Edge who attacked HBK backstage. This is what we have been waiting for. Cena HEEL TURN. Calling it now.

[Dr. Horrible]

wwe-1 curtis-0

honestly i think vince being ecw champion could be the best storyline wwe has ever come up with, did u see the promos being cut by the originals tonight...i really really want to see ecw now

khali vs cena doesn't look promising at all though

[Curtis]

I have been watching wrestling since I was a baby and had a Hogan and Warrior plush dolls. I have seen numerous federations, eras in the sport and some of the lamest failed gimmicks. Without a doubt, Khali is the worst THING I have ever had to endure. The guy is absolute trash. He is big and thats it. He is an embarrassment in the ring, so bad his matches make me cringe and want to look away. I give Cena shit but he looks like Kurt Angle compared to this walking mountain of shit. The HBK-Cena-Edge-Orton title clusterfuck has been great and now they break that up and a potential Cena heel turn for fucking KHALI. Horrible and pathetic.
As the "great" Lex Lugar once said "I'm pissed now...







and ur doors are locked too Billy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHTj7qfnTak

[Dr Zaius]

If I could name the two worst things on Raw, it would be Umaga and Khali. God knows why Vince gets such a hard-on for the big, talentless guys and pushes them to the moon.

[Dr. Horrible]

because it worked for hogan and warrior...

[Dr Zaius]

Those guys aren't big or fat like Umaga or Khali. More importantly, they got reaction from the fans and could handle the mic.

Best sign last night was "Save us, HHH". Amen to that, brother.

[Dr Zaius]

honestly i think vince being ecw champion could be the best storyline wwe has ever come up with, did u see the promos being cut by the originals tonight...i really really want to see ecw now


This is the time for someone like Sandman to kick Vince in the crotch and declare, "THIS IS ECW!!!"
But of course we aren't going to see anything like that. Instead we'll see Vince parade with the belt for a couple of months while ECW originals stand in the shadows and job to Umaga.

[Curtis]

ECW has been enjoyable since Lashley's role on the show has been decreased. I watch for Punk and it's great to see him be in this New Breed feud. The short spotfest of a mainevent was enjoyable as well. I hope RVD resigns with the E so he can get the ECW belt back. Otherwise he is surely destined to job to Vince next week.

[Dr Zaius]

I loved how Edge's hair flew when Kennedy yelled his name at him. That was amazing. Upset to see Kennedy is out to do injury.

[Dr. Horrible]

the rated cw superstar should be awesome though

[Curtis]

I love Edge, I hope he cashes in the money in the bank on Smackdown. And please don't post spoilers before Friday I actually look forward to seeing the way it pans out.

EDIT: During ECW, WWE actually spoiled SmackDown and announced Edge won the belt. Very Weird, here's an awesome pic that was taken from WWE.com

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/EdgeWHC.jpg

[block02]

Would have preferred another wwe title run(minus the god-awful spinner belt) but in any event hopefully Edge will get a decent title run this time. Also looks like Kennedy is in line for a face run, not exactly looking forward to that(*cough*carlito*cough*) but I'm reserving judgment till I see it.

[RCoehrs]

Although maybe not the most popular and most confusng of courses we have to admit the injuries of this year and the last part of last year have hampered the product into doing the best they can, And I say besides Mc Mahon winning the ecw belt they have..
boycott ecw!!

[Dr Zaius]

What the fuck happened to King of the Ring? How come there wasn't one at Backlash like last year?

[Dr. Horrible]

you mean king of smackdown? he's injured

[Dr Zaius]

No, I don't mean Booker. The tournament itself, King of The Ring, is there not going to be one this year?

[Nebuchanezzar]

I hope not. They always were quite boring.

Anyway, there hasn't been one for a few years, has there?

[Dr. Horrible]

what i was saying is that last year wasnt a real kotr it was only smackdown guys that participated and was used as a gimmick to get booker over so i doubt theyll be doing especially with the depleted roster of smackdown

[Dr Zaius]

That sucks. KOTR used to be one of my favourite PPVs. They should bring it back every year. I'm not saying the winner will always have to parade around with a crown like Booker, but use it his own way. It could help elavate someone, the way it used be.

[duffless89]

Judgment Day Results:


Ric Flair def. Carlito by pinfall
Bobby Lashley def. Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon and Umaga by pinfall, Vince McMahon retains the ECW Championship
CM Punk def. Elijah Burke by pinfall
Randy Orton def. Shawn Michaels by technical knock out
The Hardys def. Cade and Murdoch by pinfall to retain the World Tag Team Championship
Edge def. Batista by pinfall to retain the World Heavyweight Championship
MVP def. Chris Benoit 2-0 in a Two Out Of Three Falls Match to win the WWE United States Championship
John Cena def. The Great Khali by submission to retain the WWE Championship


Yes, sports fans, you read that right. Khali tapped.

[Curtis]

Carlito-Flair was horrible due to Flair. The man makes a fool of himself in the ring now. Even worse they had the recently turned heel Carlito lose to the old piece of shit.

The Lashley-McMahon match was horrible. It wasn't even much of a match just like 5 minutes of wasted time.

Punk vs. Burke was EXCELLENT. Match of the night. Those two really put on a great show, back and forth.

Orton-Michaels wasn't too good seeing how Orton attacked Michaels backstage and it was just a beatdown. Michaels wife came down to the ring after when they were carting him out. Guess he will finally get that knee surgery and time off.

Hardys-Cade & Murdock was good. I just wish they would let C & M win for once.

Edge-Batista was poor. Nothing of note in the match. Happy Edge won.

MVP-Benoit was great. Almost as good as the Punk-Burke match. Nice to see MVP finally win the strap.

Cena-Khali was better then I thought it would be, but still shit. With Khali involved theres no way a match could be even decent. Cena did his same old routine except a dropkick he did into stairs that was nice. I am still sick to death of seeing every pay per view end with J.R. saying the champ is still here and his music playing. I think Orton will be the next to feud with Cena, I don't like Orton that much but I pray to god he beats him. Cena gets more and more stale. The guy needs to challenge for the belt or turn heel already.

All in all a below average show. Two great matches and a decent one but the rest were shit and the crowd was dead too until the main event. St. Louis marks!

[Dr Zaius]

I read that Cena's next opponent will be Snitzky, which is why they're airing his video packages on Raw. That'll put asses on seats.

[Dr. Horrible]

no snitsky's going to be feuding with lashley on ecw

orton cena will probably be the main event for summerslam

[Dr Zaius]

Great. So Cena keeps the belt for another few months. God, why can't he get injured?

[Dr. Horrible]

please dont say that....if cena got injured we'd end up with orton or khali as the raw champ....do you really want that?

shawn, kennedy, trips and taker down in one fell swoop is enough injury wise

[duffless89]

please dont say that....if cena got injured we'd end up with orton or khali as the raw champ....do you really want that?

shawn, kennedy, trips and taker down in one fell swoop is enough injury wise

Gregory Helms, Hardcore Holly and Super Crazy are out too. Rey Mysterio hasn't come back yet, either.

[Dr Zaius]

If Khali, Umaga, Vince (somehow) and Cena had got injured instead of all mentioned then WWE would be a better place. I can't think of anyone on SD as I don't watch it much.

[Dr. Horrible]

how so exactly would wwe be a better place when cena is their highest draw right now both ticket sale wise, merch wise, and not to mention the face of the company

[Dr Zaius]

Yeah, Cena may draw tickets but come on, half the crowd is sick of him. I wanna see someone fresh in the main event picture, and not someone who'll just be another stepping stone for Cena. A main event feud that doesn't involve Superman but we probably won't get that for another year.

[Dr. Horrible]

half the crowd is not sick of him, cena isnt marketed towards the internet people hes marketed towards little kids and marketed as being family friendly and thats why he is on top

[Curtis]

My thoughts on the coming WWE Draft in two weeks.

What I want to happen in the draft...

- Carlito moves to Smackdown or my top choice ECW. Push him hard as the arrogant cocky heel. If on ECW have him in the ECW title picture.

- Switch John Cena and Edge along with the titles. Edge, The Rated R Superstar, Belongs on Raw. He personifies that Raw feeling. Smackdown is popular among younger audiences so Cena would fit right in.

- Switch Ken Kennedy to Raw. Kennedy is another guy I would like seeing on Raw over Smackdown.

- Move Chris Masters to Smackdown, he's an allright heel.

- Unify the Tag Team titles and have them on ECW. Raw has the women's division, Smackdown has cruiserweights let ECW have tag team wrestling. Among team's that should be moved to ECW: World's Greatest Tag Team, Cryme Tyme, Murdock and Cade, Deuce & Domino.

- Move Jeff Hardy and Bobby Lashley to Smackdown they appeal to a younger audience much like Cena. Hardy is over with everyone but he has that Smackdown feel to me while Lashley is just another boy scout face.

- Move Booker T to Raw. I think it's time for him to move on to Raw.

- Switch Santino Marella and MVP also swapping titles. I would like MVP on Raw and Marella seems like a guy fit for Smackdown.

- Move Snitsky to Raw as a monster heel.

- Move Umaga to ECW as a monster heel.

- Move Chris Benoit and to ECW. He is technically an ECW original and that brand would feature terrific main event wrestling.

- Move Matt Hardy, I would like to see him wrestling singles in ECW.

- Move the women who can wrestle to Raw, eye candy to Smackdown, and slutty eye candy to ECW.

- Fire the Great Khali.


New main event scene in each brand under this scenario...

RAW: Edge (World Heavyweight Champion), Ken Kennedy, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, Booker T, Snitsky, MVP (U.S. Champion), Women's Division.

ECW: Chris Benoit, Carlito, Umaga, CM Punk, Elijah Burke, Matt Hardy, Marcus Cor Von, Tag Team Division

Smackdown: John Cena (WWE Champion), Bobby Lashley, Batista, Undertaker, Kane, Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, Chris Masters, Santino Marella (Intercontinental Champion), Cruiserweight Division

What I think will happen in the draft...

- Chris Masters leaves Raw

- WWE will do a move that is stupid like break up Cryme Tyme for no reason.

- Carlito changes brands (I'm hoping this follows my above path for Carlito but I think he will end up being switched)

- Lashley goes to Raw

- Cena-Edge switch, I really want this to happen as I said above and I think it might.

- Booker T to Raw.

- CM Punk to either Raw or Smackdown.

[Dr. Horrible]

cena and edge are not swtiching

raw is oversaturated with heels so it needs a face champion, and vice versa for smackdown, cm punk is staying ecw but rey and masters will probably go there

[Dr Zaius]

Cena to SD would make my year.

[duffless89]

Here's the matches for One Night Stand...

John Cena vs The Great Khali
WWE Championship
Falls Count Anywhere

Edge vs Batista
World Heavyweight Championship
Steel Cage

Vince McMahon vs Bobby Lashley
ECW Championship
Street Fight

The Hardys (Matt and Jeff) vs The World's Greatest Tag Team (Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas)
World Tag Team Championship
Ladder

Melina vs Candice Michelle
WWE Women's Championship
Pudding

CM Punk, Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman vs Elijah Burke, Matt Striker and Marcus Cor Von
Table

Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam
Stretcher

*Blue Light SD Spoiler Here*
Kane vs Mark Henry
Lumberjack

The undercard, except for the pudding and *read spoiler* matches, looks awesome.

[block02]

This has got to be one of the most predictable cards in a while though:

Tag Titles- No buildup so Hardys will retain.

Pudding Match- This feud will obviously culminate with Candice losing in a title match, but she's gonna win here to keep the feud going.

6-man Table Match-Going with the faces considering that this will probably me Sandman's last ECW match and for the fact that RVD will no doubt be jobbing.

Stretcher Match- I'm thinking Orton's gonna be the guy who finally gets the title off Cena by Summerslam so look for him to win and for the concussion angle to be continued as a reason to keep RVD off TV until his contract expires.

Lumberjack Match-no buildup so go with the obvious choice in Henry

World Title-Word is Edge is gonna get a decent title run this time(thank God) so he'll retain.

WWE Title-Never bet against this generation's Hogan in a PPV Match. Ever.

ECW Title-Vince has actually been entertaining as champ, but there's no sense in him keeping the title.

[Curtis]

They decided to put the match announced on Smackdown Friday instead of Chris Benoit vs. MVP in Benoit's rematch for the belt. What bullshit, would have been a perfect way to end the feud and a lot better then the trash they went with.

[Dr Zaius]

Ladder match was great. Good to see the belt back on Lashley. Didn't bother watching Cena's match and I don't even need to check who won.

[Curtis]

I'll be at the ECW/Smackdown tapping tomorrow here in Orlando. I got lower bowl seats about ten rows up on camera side so you might see me. I'll be the one booing Bobby Lashley and cheering Edge.

[tom cody]

Here's my thoughts on what will happen in the draft lottery:

Move Mark Henry, Chris Benoit, and William Regal to RAW.

Move Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton, and Umaga to Smackdown.

Move Paul London, Carlito, and Kenny Dykstra to ECW

[Dr Zaius]

Mark Henry on Raw? Dear God no. I think Khali and Umaga are bad enough.

[Dr. Horrible]

khali and umaga are exactly why henry will probably be moved, id actually liek to see umaga in ecw

[duffless89]

Draft Results:

Kennedy, Snitsky, Lashley, King Booker and Queen Sharmell to RAW
Benoit and Boogeyman to ECW
Flair, Torrie, Masters and Khali to SmackDown

And then this...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/Sommerville_S/NewBitmapImage.jpg

[Dr Zaius]

I don't know where this angle is leading but it would be great not to have Vince on every show for the next few months.

Love that Kennedy and Booker have drafted to Raw. Not so pleased about Lashley. He's dull. And does it make any difference? He's been on every Raw for the past three months anyway.

Thank God Khali has left for SD, a show I don't get to watch.
Chris Benoit for ECW Champion!
Flair and Batista should team up again.

Why do WWE writers think fans would love to see Moolah and that other bitch bark like dogs?

[Matt B.]

Wow. What a ending.

[Timothy]

So he's not actually dead, right?

[Dr Zaius]

I think, I think, it's an angle.

[thecapecoddah]

mcmahon sacrificing his life to make good television would be sweet

[-AW-]

So he's not actually dead, right?

Sounds like some fake, there are lots of youtube videos anyway which explains he faked it

[Matt B.]

It's fake
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=63256

[Dr. Horrible]

just fucking

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/treatment/carl-2-athf.jpg

[Andy]

know your kayfabe, guys™

mr. mcmahon is dead.
vincent kennedy mcmahon still lives, and probably still intends to.

this probably means less mcmahon family drama in the storylines, which is very much welcoming. after the initial "mourning" period, of course.

hopefully.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Why do WWE writers think fans would love to see Moolah and that other bitch bark like dogs?

That's the point where I stopped watching...

[Springfield, Kentucky]

yeah, my brother called me after it happened and he was freaking out. but if it was real, i think it would have been all over the news. i thought at first that the car just blew up from the outside. it didn't look like the inside was catching on fire at first. enough time for him to pull an arnold and vanessa williams in eraser.

[-AW-]

That's what I thought as well. Why isn't there anything on the news?

[Dr. Horrible]

i thought i made this clear

NO ONE FUCKING BLEW UP LIVE ON TV, VINCE IS TAKING HIS CHARACTER OFF TV FOR A WHILE BY FAKING HIS OWN DEATH, VINCE MCMAHON IS ALIVE AND WELL

[Nebuchanezzar]

This man is clearly some kind of genius.

[Curtis]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/lhbigpimpin06/mcmahonrip.jpg

[Dr. Horrible]

curtis that is the greatest thing you have ever posted

[Springfield, Kentucky]

hahaha wow. good one.

[block02]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/sherripasses

Son of a bitch.

[Dr. Horrible]

aw man :(

rip sherri

[Matt B.]

R.I.P Sheri :(

[D DEBBS]

^
I'm in shock-what did Sherri die of???? :(

[Larson Something]

I hope they're not just teasing us about giving Iron Sheik his own segment. This needs to happen.

[Dr. Horrible]

unless raw plans on getting cancelled ina week i doubt it

[Tab]

Stupid WWE.
Faking deaths isn't funny.
It's just lousy and stupid.
BUT, at least they're trying to use different storylines, not the same old ones.

[Dr Zaius]

Two names -Al Wilson and Mohammed Hassan. Plus the whole "investigation" angle is similar to "Who ran over Austin?"
My guess is Vince will come back in about a couple of months time and laugh at how he had everyone fooled. No way Vince will keep himself off TV forever.

[D DEBBS]

Flick Off- :LOL:

[Spartan]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34/lhbigpimpin06/mcmahonrip.jpg

good lord.

[block02]

Punk vs. Benoit at Vengeance.

God must like me.

[duffless89]

i thought i made this clear

NO ONE FUCKING BLEW UP LIVE ON TV, VINCE IS TAKING HIS CHARACTER OFF TV FOR A WHILE BY FAKING HIS OWN DEATH, VINCE MCMAHON IS ALIVE AND WELL

He's probably out the back of his mansion, lying in his hammock, counting how many times Shane hits the tiles with a hammer.


Hey this still is a Simpsons forum, isn't it?

[block02]

Well boys and girls I'm off to N.C. for a week so I think I'll do Vengeance Predictions before I go:

U.S. Title: MVP will retain. I think he's gonna get a decent run as champ and Flair is simply jobbing to the stars these days anyhow.

IC Title: Marella will retain. Only reason Umaga even held the title was to hype the BOTB at 'Mania, which actually devalued the title even more than it even has been. I would love to see Marella drop the title to Regal though.

Raw Tag Titles: Cade and Murdoch will retain which will effectively either keep this feud going or let Matt and Jeff concentrate on singles competition, which would of course result in the overrated spot-monkey getting more glory than the more deserving mid-card mainstay.

Smackdown Tag Titles: Deuce and Domino are entertaining, but they haven't done much for the tag belts, but the Major Brothers don't deserve them yet so the greasers will retain.

Women's Title: Candice has been booked too strongly to justify Melina retaining so we'll no doubt see a new champ here.

CW Title: Chavo's had the belt too long and has done nothing for it so Yang should win it and feud with the likes of Jamie Noble and Shannon Moore.

World Title: This is what, Batista's third or fourth title match within one month? Edge needs a long title run this time and rumor around the mill is that he will so Edge will retain probably after some interference from the human sweat machine known as Mark Henry.

WWE Title: Let's break this one down- Booker is there for credibility and generalship(as he usually is) Foley is probably gonna take some nasty bump, and Lashley is there to simply be carried. That leaves Orton and Cena. I probably should go with Cena, but buzz is that Orton's in for a major push and feud with Triple H when he gets back, so I've got a feeling(or false hope perhaps) that Orton will be the guy to finally get the belt off Cena and keep it warm for HHH until Summerslam.

[Dr. Horrible]

the only champions that will lose their titles are melina and cena

im thinking they will give foley a hot shot title reign until summerslam for a big street fight with cena

[Matt B.]

Vengeance Results:

John Cena won WWE Championship
World Tag Team Champions Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch def. The Hardys
Cruiserweight Champion Chavo Guerrero def. Jimmy Wang Yang
Johnny Nitro def. CM Punk to win the vacant ECW World Title
Intercontinental Champion Santino Marella def. Umaga (DQ)
United States Champion MVP def. Ric Flair
WWE Tag Team Champions Deuce & Domino def. Sgt. Slaughter & "Superfly" Jimmy Snuka
World Heavyweight Champion Edge def. Batista (Count out; Last Chance Match)
Candice Michelle def. Women's Champion Melina

[Curtis]

Cade & Murdock vs. The Hardys was a great tag match. Entertaining stuff. Cade & Murdock are a great heel team. A-

Chavo-Jimmy Wang Yang was also a really good match that could have went either way. B+

Since the Punk/Benoit match was booked me and my buddies were beyond stoked for this "dream matchup." Two of the best workers in the fed going at it for the ECW title. We expected that Benoit would go over and Punk would challenge which would be awesome. Benoit would add prestige while holding the belt. When Punk came out I got goosebumps thinking of how good this match would be. Then the announcement is made and fucking Johnny Nitro comes out. I was at a Hooters the entire place starts chanting bullshit. Total fucking bullshit. If you had to have a replacement why not fucking Elijiah Burke who has been feuding with Punk and is established as a top guy on ECW not fucking Johnny Nitro. We were pissed but I said well at least this guarantees a Punk win, fuckin' wrong. Punk losses cleanly after being built up for months to a guy who was jobbing just a few weeks back. Total fucking bullshit and the entire place starting booing. Even the marks realize this shit was weak. F-

Marella vs. Umaga was short as hell, which I liked because I think Morella sucks as the people of Houston due cheering for Umaga kicking his ass. The ending definitely looked like it was botched. F+ (The plus for Umaga kicking Borella's ass)

MVP vs. Flair was a below average match but not as terrible as many of Flair's recent matches because MVP was on the offensive most of the time. Flair at this point in his career is so slow and plodding in the ring, I frankly don't want to see him at all. Me along with the rest of my friends at the Hooters decided if Flair won we'd walk out, luckily MVP got the win. C-

Deuce & Domino vs. Old Fucks, incredible boring. Couldn't wait for this match to end. I like Deuce and Domino but Slaughter and Snuka are way to old to be enjoyable in the ring. F

Edge vs. Batista was good match but at first I thought it was a little slow and plodding but when the action picked up it got good. Batista has really picked up his game since Wrestlemania to the point I'm not going to dog him anymore. I liked the finish because it kept the strap on Edge but didn't make Batista look week as he powerbombed the champ twice. B

Candice Michelle vs. Melina was also a snore fest. This match was below average at best. D

WWE Championship match. Entertaining match, despite me disliking Lashley as much as Cena I got to give him credit for the dive over the top rope. That was really cool. Orton looked good and Booker looked great. His kicks looked beautiful and I really hope one day Book will get a chance to be a WWE champion and add that to his list of accomplishments. As expected Foley did the job to fucking Cena. Fun fact: Every pay per view of this year has ended with Cena celebrating his win with his music playing. The crowd was 90% against him tonight, maybe because everyone is sick of him as champ. WWE doesn't care though. Entertaining match, just wish it could have gone a little longer and of course with a different outcome but I wont hold that against it. B

Overall, I was extremely disappointed. This pay per view featured a match I was so hyped for turned into something that is down right fucking dumb. Edge-Batista, the first two matches and main event were good but the rest of the matches were bad or just plain terrible.

Pay per view grade: D

[altoids30]

Papa Shango will come back and resurrect Vince from the dead voodoo style. Then they can do Zombie Vince vs Undertaker.

[Dr Zaius]

I stopped watching after Johnny Nitro won the belt. We get PPVs free in the UK but I pity anyone who paid to see Benoit/Punk. What a let-down.

[Dr. Horrible]

benoit did have a serious family problem, can't really blame the guy for that

[Dr. Horrible]

jesus, i hope someone just hacked the site...but wwe.com is reporting that chris benoit and his family were found dead in their house

[Curtis]

Oh my god I just saw this.

I'm about to cry. Chris Benoit has been one of my favorite wrestlers since I was a kid. I don't know what to say.

[altoids30]

It just says that he and his family were found dead. I wonder what the hell happened.

[Dr. Horrible]

jesus.

http://img.search.com/thumb/f/fb/Benoit_and_Guerrero_celebrate_at_WrestleMania_XX.jpg/250px-Benoit_and_Guerrero_celebrate_at_WrestleMania_XX.jpg

[kuumuus]

man what the fuck. i just heard. benoit was one of my favorites. RIP

[simplysimpson]

In possibly the most shocking piece of news I've ever had to read:

WWE is sad to report that Chris Benoit and his family have been found dead in their home. Police are currently investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths. Tonight's Raw will be a tribute to Chris and his family.

The sports-entertainment world has lost a Legend, as WWE is saddened to report that Chris Benoit and his family were found dead in their Atlanta-area home today. Benoit was 40 years old.

-wwe.com



Totally stunned.

[thecapecoddah]

that's.. so.. very sad. sigh


thanks for the memories, chris :(