WWE Thread

[Dr. Horrible]

MONEY FUCKING INC!!!!!

[Jeremy]

Fuck Money Inc, there was a HORSEMEN REUNION IN THE CAROLINAS! It's a shame so much of the show was shit, but that moment will stay in my mind forever.

[Dr. Horrible]

spirit squad vs horsemen/piper/and money inc at cyber sunday

make it happen bitches

[Jeremy]

I'd love to see it if they kept the retired guys (Money Inc., Arn) limited to just their signature moves, and didn't have them bump. Rotundo would probably be okay bumping since he just retired a year or so ago, but DiBiase probably couldn't do much bumping, and Arn should avoid it at all costs given his neck. On a completely unrelated note, was I the only one who marked out a bit when JBL mentioned Christian at No Mercy?

[block02]

was I the only one who marked out a bit when JBL mentioned Christian at No Mercy

When did he mention that and what exactly did he say? I would have marked out if I had caught it. He was so underused it wasn't funny. Great in the ring, hilarious on the mic, awesome entrance attire and music...and to think, it's almost been one year since he left..... I think I'm going to have to lie down and have a good cry now.

[Jeremy]

Christian was mentioned when JBL compared London and Kendrick to Edge and Christian. Christian was underused in WWE (really more misused, actually), and the same holds true in TNA, where he's been overshadowed by Sting and now Angle.

There's a lot on Angle in the newest Observer, and numerous parallels between he and Pillman are brought up. Jannetty's firing was mentioned very briefly, as was Justin Credible's.

[block02]

Christian was actually the reason I started watching TNA; it was midway throught his title run actually. That must have been a great moment when he made his debut there.

[Jeremy]

It was a good moment, but it was (and Christian has been in TNA) a victim of bad timing, since it happened the day Eddie died.

[Dr Zaius]

I thought Christian's ring attire was one of the worst ever. The mesh top was cool but I hated those tights.

[Jeremy]

He dropped that attire about four years ago. Psicosis has been arrested for stealing a car and hitting other drivers (including a pregnant woman) with it, so his job is just about toast in WWE. I'd crack up if he blamed it on AAA's Psicosis.

[block02]

Raw Spoilers for tonight:
*Raw opens with Edge and Randy Orton coming to the ring dressed as DX (Edge as HHH, Orton as Michaels), cutting a promo on HHH and Shawn Michaels and on the fans for buying DX merchandise. This leads to DX hitting the ring. Orton challenges HHH to the main event of Raw.
*Cryme Tyme debuted, defeating two members of the Spirit Squad using a TKO/neckbreaker combination. I do not believe it was a WWE Tag Team title bout. Spirit Squad began arguing and fighting amongst themselves after the match.
*Jonathan Coachman was speaking to King Booker backstage when Cryme Tyme came into the scene. They got off a line by Booker where he told them he doesn't speak ebonics.
*WWE Intercontinental champion Jeff Hardy won a Four Way over Shelton Benjamin, Chris Masters, and Super Crazy pinning Masters with the swanton.
*Backstage, Vince McMahon approached King Booker and Big Show asking where John Cena was and teasing his big announcement.
*There was an appearance by Kevin Federline, who was with Melina and Johnny Nitro, that got a the most heat of anything thus far on the show. John Cena came out and rapped on Federline, then knocked Nitro out of the ring. Big Show and Booker T both came out, which saw them go back and forth on the mic. Vince McMahon came out and announced at Cyber Sunday, the fans would have the ability to decide which of the titles would be on the line. Cena asks Federline which title he wants to see defended and ends up giving him the F-U, which got a huge reaction.
*Rob Conway came out and complained about not being used. Carlito came out and squashed him.
*They did a backstage vignette where Edge and Lita asked Vince McMahon about getting a title rematch, but McMahon responded that Edge & Orton would face DX, presumably at Cyber Sunday.
*Steve O and another cast member from MTV's Jackass came to the ring and said they were willing to take on anyone. Umaga came out and destroyed them. It appeared live that Umaga may have been stiffing them because they weren't selling enough.
*Maria won a Four Way Bra & Panties match against Torrie Wilson, Victoria, and Candice Michelle to advance in the WWE Women's championship tournament.
*The Tournament Semi-Finals are Maria vs. Lita and Melina vs. Mickie James.
*HHH pinned Randy Orton after a chairshot and Pedigree. It appeared Orton injured his foot early as they were stalling. A trainer and referee came to ringside to help Orton walk back to the locker room.
Sounds like a great show.

[Dr Zaius]

That is unbelievable. A couple of months ago on another forum there was a thread about possible "wrestlecrap" ideas and I came up with one angle where Federline shows up to promote some crap on RAW.

[camelenchilada]

jesus...now there are celebrities making appearances on raw? i swear, i've stopped watching smackdown and raw the past couple of weeks because it has been getting ridiculous, and now this?

[Dr. Horrible]

federline was there to get cena on all those bubblegum pop culture shows tomorrow

[Jeremy]

Lots of notes from the newest Observer (which I just got today) -
No one was allowed to see Antonio Pena before he died, not even his longtime boyfriend.
Ricky Steamboat's wife, as part of a divorce settlement, owns the rights to "Ricky the Dragon Steamboat", which is why he's never mentioned on-air, and why he hasn't appeared on recent DVDs.
"The Spoiler" Don Jardine, one of Undertaker's original trainers, who taught him the top rope walk, is battling advance leukemia.
Boogeyman was rehired partially due to his race, since WWE doesn't want to appear insensiteve due to Cryme Tyme. He'll now be a Booker T project, and train at his school when not on the road.
Psicosis' problems might be due to problems with his wife. He's been depressed over that, and due to not being used, since he only gets $500 a week when he isn't put to work by WWE. WWE might bring him back as a Pancho Villa-type character.
RVD might win the ECW title at December to Dismember, but Vince is against it.
Holly will be back wrestling at the 10/24 live ECW show.
They plan on doing a WM III throwback theme for WM 23 - a Heenan/Uecker skit is likely.
Moolah was going to wrestle a match on last week's three hour Raw, but a recent fall prevented that. Mae fell and hit her hip while weighing herself, which is why she had a walker. She won't need it for long, and was going to give someone a bronco buster on Raw before the injury.
Hogan's Bubba the Love Sponge appearance is covered, with him saying that Vince told him Angle was fired for threatening suicide, which Meltzer says isn't far off from what he heard.
Shelton's burial is so bad that they're having him put over Duggan on house shows, who even Masters is allowed to beat.

WWE sent TNA a letter regarding Angle - TNA can never call the ankle lock the "Angle lock", and Kurt thought WWE was joking with that demand since the thought it was always called the ankle lock. TNA can't call him "the Wrestling Machine" or "the Machine", but they'll let him wear the mouth guard as long as it doesn't say "Machine" on it. They might not allow the Angle slam name to be used, and the Olympic committee won't let "Olympic slam" slide, so they'll probably have to rename that. Moody Jack has left TNA, since they only offered him a $100 a week raise. Vince Russo has NOT signed a contract with TNA yet, citing money issues. Nash came back to TNA either with him asking for less money than his normal $5,000 a show, or with SpikeTV kicking in for this salary. TNA wants to use him as a Michigan draw, since he's from Plymouth, and he wants to be on the booking committee. Hall won't be coming back, as he's over 300 pounds. Monty Brown appears to be done with TNA, as his deal expired on 9/30, he hasn't signed a new one, and he didn't show up at the last TV tapings. Brown's personal training job gets him six figures and allows him to work TNA, while he's mainly leaving due to being lied to about getting a title reign. Christian basically got the title run promised to him.

Jake Roberts was a complete mess at the tapings, and could barely get in and out of the ring due to how thrashed his body is. His segment was said to be the worst in TNA's history, so it'll need to be saved by the editing crew. A couple people who know the signs of significant pain pill usage noted that Angle looked to be 100% clean. Jarrett will be turning face after a few-week sabbatical. They'll tell the story of a family illness to get him over, although it's unknown if they'll use his wife's battle with cancer or go with something else. He and Konnan had a confrontation at the TV tapings, with Konnan threatening to quit over money. He wanted a raise since he's now the manager of the company's top act, and Jarrett wanted him to sign a new deal where TNA would control Konnan's independent bookings, which Konnan doesn't want. Steiner Brothers vs. Team 3D was going to happen at Bound for Glory, but Scott's contract problems nixed it. Angle will not be working TNA house shows, which shows how seriously the company is treating his problems. Dave scolds TNA for not showing AJ in front of 16,000 fans in the AAA beatdown video package.

Onto Raw - I thought the show made great use of the IC and tag champions for once, with Hardy having yet another good/great match since returning, and Cryme Tyme furthering themselves as a funny comedic tag team with some decent offense. I didn't like DX burying Orton/Edge on the mic and in the ring, but hopefully they let the new team actually do something against DX instead of making them look like idiots. Umags stiffing the hell out of Steve-O was hilarious, and K-Fed should be wrestling manager when/if his marriage dies, because he was a good talker on the show, and everyone hated his guts. He also took a damn fine bump off the FU.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Psychosis only gets paid $500 a week? Why?

[Jeremy]

It seems like WWE gave him an incredibly low downside guarantee. At least he made it into one video game, which will give him a bit more money.

[camelenchilada]

i guess i haven't really been paying attention to things...i had no idea that angle was in tna now. wow. but to say in that statement he released that the wwe "held him back"...that's just insane. he had a very successful career in wwe.

[Dr Zaius]

I'd kill for 500 a week.

[bauer]

I'd kill for 500 a week.
Not when you are putting your body through what they put their's through. That is not worth it at ALL.

[Dr. Horrible]

how often does psychosis actually wrestle anyway?

[Jeremy]

Now? Not at all. After his recent car theft + car accidents, it's doubtful he'll be on WWE's payroll for long.

[Dr Zaius]

So... how about Piper's mantits?

[bauer]

So... how about Piper's mantits?
NO ONE WILL DISRESPECT THE HOT ROD IN THIS THREAD!!!11

[Dr. Horrible]

piper/flair vs cryme tyme = feud of the century

[block02]

Match announced for Survivor Series:

Classic Survivor Series Match: DX, Matt and Jeff Hardy, and CM Punk vs. Edge, Randy Orton, Johnny Nitro, Gregory Helms, and Mike Knox.

Sweet.

[Dr. Horrible]

wwe jsut sold me on this ppv

[bauer]

Match announced for Survivor Series:

Classic Survivor Series Match: DX, Matt and Jeff Hardy, and CM Punk vs. Edge, Randy Orton, Johnny Nitro, Gregory Helms, and Mike Knox.

Sweet.
Now is the time to book the whole PPV as an old school Survivor Series with just ONE 1 on 1 main event. That would rule.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Indeed it would. I'm going to be watching RAW for the first time in a month or two this afternoon. I hope it's good.

[camelenchilada]

kevin federline on raw?
hmm...
appears to me the writers have been smoking just a BIT too much crack.

[bauer]

kevin federline on raw?
hmm...
appears to me the writers have been smoking just a BIT too much crack.
He gets 0 heat, too. Wonder if he will continue this gimmick (or even showing up) now that Britney dumped his whigger ass?

[camelenchilada]

well he made that match for new years day, so i don't know.
still a douchebag, though.

[Jeremy]

K-Fed is beyond awesome as a wrestling heel. Since he has no other real career options other than VH1 reality star, he might as well just sign a WWE deal now. Hell, they're paying him $9,000 an appearance now - they might as well sign him full-time and get a per-appearance break.

Oh, and Kurt Angle will be on Wrestling Observer Live this weekend. I look forward to hearing this, and hope he doesn't contradict himself anymore.

[camelenchilada]

federline is a fucking douchebag
if they were to sign him i swear to god i'd never watch that shit again

[Nebuchanezzar]

Meh, I have no real problems with him but that pre recorded promo he made on RAW was awful. It gets to be a problem when you can tell with certainty that it was prerecorded, and that there are awkward pauses between every sentence he makes where the audience was supposed to boo him.

[camelenchilada]

it might just be me, but it seems like both shows have gotten a lot more predictable in the past few years. when i first started watching, i genuinely got into the matches. i routed for a guy to win, but i never knew if he would actually win or what would happen during the match. nowadays, i find myself successfully predicting the outcome of every match...and i do not get into it at all.

[block02]

Another Classic SS Match announced:

John Cena, Rob Van Dam, Sabu, Kane, and Lashley vs. Big Show, Test, MVP, Finlay, and Umaga.

Also TBA on Smackdown:
Kennedy vs. Undertaker
U.S. Title: Chavo Guerrero vs. Chris Beniot
World Title: Batista vs. King Booker

Shaping up to be a pretty good show.

[camelenchilada]

what is with eddie guerrero's wife and chavo having that storyline together? what a fucking disgrace.

[bauer]

cameltoechilada is the most negative wrestling fan I've ever seen....and that is saying something.

[Dr. Horrible]

he's also a fucking idiot

[camelenchilada]

sorry if that seems negative, i just think that a DEAD wrestler's wife being involved in a storyline in which she talks about/mocks her dead husband along with her dead husband's nephew is just a little messed up.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Eh, I think that they've said the truth so far. Yeah, wrestling has become a little predictable, and yeah, last I saw of the angle involving Guerrero's wife it did seem a little much.

[bauer]

Yeah, point is, if Eddie's wife and nephew are actively involved in this angle, why would you care and call it wrong? Obviously they don't think it is...so why would we, as just fans, care?

[Voodoo Monkey]

I was discussing this on another forum (one geared towards wrestling the way NHC is to the Simpsons). When WWE gets back to the levels they had during the "Rock 'n' Wrestling" and Attitude era, it will be because they are emulating Family Guy and shows of that nature.

People will tune in for the sheer unpredictability, the 'you don't want to not watch in case you miss something hilarious' factor. We see them already taking that direction with Little Bastard, Ron Simmons and K-Fed...although to be successful, they can't drag the comedy out week after week like they have been with these examples...

It needs to be constant, every week there's some other midcard wrestler from the past, or B-list celebrity doing something nobody saw coming...not necessarily something important, mind you.

"Yo, Dave, you watch RAW last night?"
"No, why?"
"OH MAN, you should have seen it! Edge sent the Pet Shop Boys to attack John Cena!"

[Jeremy]

WWE needs to be COMPELLING like they were during those eras. Offering consistently good wrestling isn't a pre-requisite to the company doing well, as evidenced by '99, which was filled with horrid wrestling on every show.

From the Observer site -
--TNA has canceled Sunday's appearance by Kurt Angle on Wrestling Observer Live. I really don't know more than that.
I guess more TNA folks other than Tenay and Konnan read what both Dave and Bryan have written about him and nixed this to prevent Angle from having to discuss his health issues live and risk contradicting himself further.

As for Vickie and Chavo's storyline, Konnan stated on WOL that she wants to be involved with WWE because hanging around the wrestlers is helping her cope. If that's the case, then I find it hard to blame WWE for using her on-air, since she has been a good TV performer (which was evident during the summer of '05 feud with Rey) before Eddie's death, and a WWE gig pays her far more than any other regular job would.

[camelenchilada]

Yeah, point is, if Eddie's wife and nephew are actively involved in this angle, why would you care and call it wrong? Obviously they don't think it is...so why would we, as just fans, care?

Even if Vicky and Chavo are involved and are completely fine with doing it, I still just think it's a little disrespectful for the WWE to keep using Eddie's tragic death to feed storylines. Just my opinion.

[Voodoo Monkey]

WWE doesn't need to be compelling, they just need to be entertaining. But in a good way, not a WCW circa 2000 way.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Well, when they're entertaining, they're compelling. Who can say they didn't love it when Steve Austin and Booker T had that fight in the supermarket? It was hugely entertaining, and because of it, it dragged you into the feud.

Good times.

[Dr Zaius]

WWE cartoon to be made about a very important subject.

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/specialty_clips/1110mcmahontease

[Jeremy]

Angle ended up doing WOL, and had some incredible quotes on it -
"I don't want to blow smoke up my rear-end...but if you put a list together of the WWE's top 10 greatest matches, I have a role in all 10 of them."

"No, my neck is fine. I'm 100%!"

"I'm probably going to lie [to Dixie Carter] more than I'm going to tell her the truth."

"I drew more crowds, um."

"Vince Russo is a great writer."

"He (Vince McMahon) never gave me a platform to stand on."

"I broke my neck the night I won my last world title on SmackDown, and then I broke it again the next night on Raw against Shawn Michaels."

"All these run-ins and stuff with Joe has been (a) shoot."

Kurt sounded sedated during the interview, I hope he was just tired from all the media stuff. Kurt also seemed really hurt that Vince wouldn't build WWE around a guy who was very injury prone. He said broke his C7 and T1 (upper back, lower neck) doing an Angle slam off the top on Shawn in their final match, since he underestimated Shawn's weight.

He also said that he was being tested for painkillers every week at this point, and hoped to get time off after WM 22, but did a tour for the company. He then said he was told he'd never be given time off in WWE, which is odd, since he was given multiple breaks in the past year, and given squash matches to keep him active on the shows as well as the GM role.

Kurt was suspended for a month due to a cortisone shot showing up as a steroid, and he was pissed. He said he was acting erratic around this time due to the suspension, and decided to then start looking at other options. He said he just trying to get under Vince and Ace's skin by sending them text messages and phone calls, and that Vince had a 20 page printout of them ready during a meeting in the offices that Kurt called.

He claimed to quit, Vince denied him that, so Angle demanded a release. He then said that Vince told him to take the $30 million, five year deal in Pride, which I find odd because legally, Pride couldn't make him an offer while under a WWE contract, which Kurt implies was still active at the time. He also stated that he took Cena aside and told him that if he didn't slow down, he'd end up like him. He says he loves Vince, and feels that he (Angle) was Vince's top draw, and that people just came to house shows to see him wrestle.

Kurt gave some insight into the wellness policy of WWE, saying that 'scripts had to be approved by a surgeon, and his was just done by a pain doctor - a lot of guys didn't know that, which led to the massive suspensions on SD over the summer.

He claimed to be an agent in ECW and was insulted by having his advice bashed due to his lack of time in the ring, while in TNA, he says the experience has been the opposite - guys took his advice like it was gospel. He likes the 6-sided ring since it's smaller and you have less dead room in it. He claims that his arms have grown 2 1/2 inches thanks to the time off. He went into more detail about the night that he suffered three major injuries in one match - he was totally black from his groin all the way down his legs, and he couldn't move after the match. He acknowledged having to be carried around, and says that he was either sitting or lying down for 3 days (or 2 days as he stated seconds later).

Pride offered him $1 million a fight, with a $3 million endorsement deal. UFC offered him $10 million to do one fight and then sit in the crowd, and didn't feel he was born to sit in a crowd. He's going to be written into a Spike TV show now, and Dixie is planning to build TNA's mainstream success around him. He says that Dixie cares more about his health than his character, and that they'll work around his health problems should they arise.

He said that he's wanted to join TNA for two years, and when Christian came down there, he started watching (which was one year ago, not two). He went into detail about the health tests that he had to take for TNA to accept him, and he signed a "very lucrative" deal with TNA.

He also plans to help run TNA down the line, and doesn't expect to have any show-stopping health problems for 3, 4, or 5 years. When asked about life after wrestling, and doesn't really get into it beyond saying he wants to be an owner, character on TV, or agent, but says that if he has a serious problem, he'll tell Dixie that he can't work, but if it's just something like a separated shoulder, he won't do that. He plans to wrestle another 10 years if he's healthy.

Kurt agrees with Dave about WWE running too many PPVs, and that Vince didn't think of the consequences of running ECW. He then claims that TNA will surpass WWE in a year and a half if they don't end the brand extension. He says that there's a lot of curiosity from WWE wrestlers about TNA, and both Dave and Kurt say that the travel alone was a killer. That ties into what was said in the newest Observer about three name guys being interested in TNA.

Kurt feels that the ECW house shows were too much, and was glad to learn that the house shows were dropped. He also said that "someone" in the HHH-Steph-Angle love triangle didn't want it to continue, and that that same someone said that Kurt couldn't be 'the' champion.

He also claims that TNA will be a five-star show each and every week, with so much talent that they can't even use them all. He'll be doing all of the Spike TV award shows, including the VGAs. He was skeptical of the Booker-Sharmell angle, and then the show ended.

[Dr. Horrible]

Angle's an idiot and I have lost most of my respect for him

in other news R.I.P. Eddie

[Nebuchanezzar]

I wouldn't say that jumping companies and giving a bit of a biased interview would be enough for me to ignore everything that he's done in the past, and call him an idiot that has no respect from me. He's an awesome wrestler, and still is. He can say what he wants, he deserves it.

[Voodoo Monkey]

Jeremy, you're Canadian, right? If so, on what day do you usually get the WON?

(Just asking because I usually don't get mine until Wednesdays, not sure if it's an international thing or unique to me)

[Jeremy]

I'm in the U.S., in Virginia, and I usually get the Observer on Fridays. If I've recently renewed (like I just did last night), it'll sometimes take until Monday to get here. Angle's an awesome wrestler, but the man broke his neck (possibly twice) in the past year and thinks he's 100% - there is no way on Earth that is possible. Angle is free to say what he wants, and others are free to be fearful about his safety due to what he says. Here's the show on Megaupload -

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PU077NH8

[camelenchilada]

could someone fill me in on what happened on raw last night? anything worth knowing? wasn't able to catch the show.

[Nebuchanezzar]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/DutchMaster9/67b5f97b3d5to6nr.gif

Is that a cool image or what? I sure as hell didn't make it (nor do I know who did), but I felt it was pretty awesome.

[Mac Apple]

Well if you watched RAW on monday then the UK thinks JC is an asshole! well UK isn't the only country! Seriously I used to like him but now hes just become an asshole!

[block02]

WWE has signed TNA's Monty Brown.

[Jeremy]

Kurt Angle sprained his ankle in his first TNA match. I'm not the least bit surprised.

[Dr. Horrible]

hahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahaahahah ahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Dr Zaius]

So it's like been a week since Survivor Series and I only just last night during a recap show found out that Batista won the belt back.

[Jeremy]

I can't imagine WWE thinking his reign will last, since he's working on what he was told would be his career-ending triceps tear. Oh, and RVD'S WIFE chanted "TNA" after he was beaten, so if his deal is actually up in six months, he's gone, and can make wonderful use of a six-sided ring with one good leg and maybe a new name.

[Dr Zaius]

The extreme elimination chamber... so crowd favourites RVD and Punk get eliminated first. I think I missed the moment Holly got pinned. I could've sworn he kicked out. I was sure sure Big Show would retain as it's too early for Test and Lashley. I think the fans felt that way, too. Hence "this is bullshit" chants. That must have been embarassing for Heyman at ringside. But I'll be damned, Lashley won.

[Jeremy]

I'm glad Lashley won, since he's easily the best athlete in "ECW' right now. It's a shame the D2D PPV led to Heyman being sent home, and it's nearly as big a shame that it was the worst PPV of the year by a wide margin.

[Dr Zaius]

I find it funny how on Raw it's being made a big deal that Flair was beaten up by Edge and Orton. Doesn't Flair get beaten up all the time? He's like Kenny from South Park. I remember once in WCW the NWO beat him up in a desert somewhere.

[Jeremy]

I think the LWO did that, and it was never mentioned again, because an LWO push simply couldn't happen in WCW.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I fell asleep during RAW.

[Jeremy]

Was there a particular reason why, or are you just going to leave us hanging?

[D DEBBS]

I caught a little bit of RAW Monday night and JR mentioned that Rowdy Roddy Piper's sick-what exactly is wrong with him?

[D DEBBS]

^
GUYS:

Just visited Roddy's website-found out he has cancer (non-Hodgkin's lymphoma).

Sad :(

[Nebuchanezzar]

Was there a particular reason why, or are you just going to leave us hanging?

it sucked, i was tired. they seem to be in transition phase at the moment to this massive kfed angle, so it's kinda been drifting, i feel.

[Jeremy]

Did you watch this past week's Raw? Because it was awesome, and shouldn't have forced anyone to go to sleep during it. Impact and SD were also fairly good and excellent, respectively. Finlay looks to be getting a serious main event push, and I couldn't be happier... until he wins the world title, then I'll be happier. Umaga-Cena is also shaping up to be something special, as it's easily the best-built WWE Title program this year. I'm pleasantly stunned that WWE is waiting until '07 to have them touch after that one confrontation.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Nah, I was at uni. I caught the last two matches. The Umaga one was actually fairly good, for an umaga match, but Cena's wasn't that great. He was on autopilot for sure.

[Jeremy]

I was happy to see Nitro main eventing, but Cena's match with Finlay was definitely the best match he was involved with all week. Oh, and Trish's retirement from pro wrestling lasted roughly three months - she worked an indy show two days ago.

[BIG PETE]

Hey Neb - You were making fun of me for watching wresting and then I find you in here. hmmmmmm.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Yeah, everyone knows that I watch wrestling on this board pretty much, so it was kinda just a little joke at my expense was all. Wrestling is cool, Big Pete, and you know it. Well...used to be cool. I've been finding these last few months incredibly dull.

[BIG PETE]

Yeah I know. Unfortunately the last thing of interest on SD was Eddie's passing. I will only watch it now if I am doing something else at the same time. Shame really because I like Batista. The storylines are getting more and more predictable... Wow, really? A three way match for the title? That hasn't been done since last week. Raw is relying on it's talent to carry it. That can't last forever. There is a wrestling podcast I listen to (impact wrestling) and that guy hates WWE so he does raise some very valid points when you are a fan.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I've always hated Batista. He's nothing but a big shade of grey amongst a sea of colour, and he's meant to be carrying the damn brand. He's a nice guy and all, but aside from defending a title that he claims he loves so much (convinient to the max), he doesn't really do anything at all.

[BIG PETE]

To each his own. Batista's character has evolved into something unique as much as I know. He has size, style, charm... It does seem that so many characters are compositions of previous characters. Cryme Time = Latino Heat, John Cena = Stone Cold, Vito = Perry Saturn. The list goes on...

[Nebuchanezzar]

I've always hated people comparing Cena to Stone Cold. Stone Cold was involved with stories that didn't hang off some retarded desire to always have the championship, Stone Cold presented a character that was original, unique, funny and captivating, Stone Cold could string together a wrestling match that didn't follow the same old tired formula day in and day out. Cena can't do any of those things, in addition to that he salutes to the crowd and has no top lip.

Batista? He seems like Goldberg with, as you say, charm. Not much else really. I've always been entertained by the unique wrestlers though, and I haven't been seeing that many in the title pictures lately. Umaga seems to be the most unique, and even he's strictly formulaic in the way he's approaching things.

[BIG PETE]

Oh hell yeah. Stone Cold is my favourite wrestler ever. And it would be wonderful to see new characters all the time. Unfortunately there are still the same writers. I read a while ago an article by Charlie Haas when he and Jackie got sacked and he said he often suggested new story lines but was never heard. He said he warned them then but nothing gets through to Vince unless you go over their heads. Then you get worse story lines writen and then they say to Vince "he's not working out".

As far as Umaga being unique I have to concur. There have been so many "unbeatable" monsters that don't speak and are just lead around by their managers to destroy others. Unfortunately the only one that comes to mind is early Brock Lesnar - oh and early Batista when he was paired with the born-again Devon Dudley. Their was another islander type guy but I can't think of him now.

Actually I have a question. Do you know if Umaga's face work is tattoo or paint on? It does look too shiny after this long to be a tat. He should have stayed with Rosie in 3 minute warning - oops, another unstoppable monster (or two) sent by their manager to destroy others.

[block02]

I've always hated people comparing Cena to Stone Cold. Stone Cold was involved with stories that didn't hang off some retarded desire to always have the championship, Stone Cold presented a character that was original, unique, funny and captivating, Stone Cold could string together a wrestling match that didn't follow the same old tired formula day in and day out. Cena can't do any of those things, in addition to that he salutes to the crowd and has no top lip.

Damn you beat me to it man. Anyhoo Cena's Superman complex crossed the line between far-fetched but somewhat bearable and complete and utter ridiculous last night. Granted, two of the four opponents were not regular wrestlers, but one of them is the number one contender for the IC title and the other one is the number one contender for Cena's title and Cena makes the both look like jobbers. That is a load of BS if I've ever seen it.

[Dr. Horrible]

how exactly did cena make umaga look like a jobber when he smashed the guy in the head cleanly twice with a chair and umaga was still standing

also cena is the wwe champion and nitro being the number one contender for the ic title should get in less offense than the champ

[Nebuchanezzar]

how exactly did cena make umaga look like a jobber when he smashed the guy in the head cleanly twice with a chair and umaga was still standing

I haven't seen it, but I'm guessing it was the fact that after such a long match, that Cena was able to make a very impressive mark on a wrestler that's been developed as an unstoppable monster. It's like they made Umaga out to be this fantasticly unbeatable door, and Cena can just magically come in and bust it open when everyone else has only been able to make dints in it. That's what the problem is.

also cena is the wwe champion and nitro being the number one contender for the ic title should get in less offense than the champ

Not nessecarily. Yeah, we wouldn't want another Rey Mysterio champ where everyone beats Cena down week after week, but Cena should certainly not be made out to be an unstoppable monster - he isn't at all believable when he is being made out like that, and that's what the current problem is. He IS being made out to be unstoppable, and the fact that it's the same shit every week is what's making the product looking like a dull shade of grey, when not so long ago it was a vibrant rainbow. As gay it that sounded, it's the best way to convey what's happened to the WWE in recent months I believe.

Actually I have a question. Do you know if Umaga's face work is tattoo or paint on? It does look too shiny after this long to be a tat. He should have stayed with Rosie in 3 minute warning - oops, another unstoppable monster (or two) sent by their manager to destroy others.

I can't say I do know (Jeremy might, he's pretty knowledgeable), but I do agree that it's far too shiny to be real. It'd also be a helluva gamble to force someone to get massive tattoos over their face for a gimmick that has every chance of failing and never making a big mark on the landscape of pro wrestling.

[BIG PETE]

It's like they made Umaga out to be this fantasticly unbeatable door, and Cena can just magically come in and bust it open when everyone else has only been able to make dints in it. That's what the problem is.


Just like the "masterlock"? That has to be the biggest load of bullshit in the WWE. As a bouncer not trained in martial arts I have always used a lot of wrestling holds (I don't jump off the top rope... I did once off a table). The full nelson is simple and effortless in restraint. I have only ever choked someone out once using a full nelson. He had a particularly large neck (he was a bouncer from another establishment) and it was nowhere as theatrical as Chris Masters. He didn't just quietly go to sleep either...

[Nebuchanezzar]

Yeah, coming back to that bouncer story Pete, I saw your photo in the photo of you thread and would like to hereby apologise for ever causing you any anguish. Please don't hurt me.

But yes, the masterlock challenge is a bit of an abomination, even if I do somewhat enjoy the character of Chris Masters. I can't say with any honesty that there's ever been a lot of realism in wrestling submission holds though, ever. Whether it be one strangle hold having magic powers over a very similar hold, or someone coming out of a sleeper all due to audience reaction, there's never been a lot of realism there.

Also, the Kfed match on RAW was actually pretty good. He gets a lot of heel heat, and it could be worthwhile to actually keep him as a wrestler. DX promo wasn't bad either.

[BIG PETE]

I didn't get to see Raw yesterday, I will have to wait until the repeat on Saturday. They have really been handed a character on a plate with k-fed, and it looks like he wants to play Vince's game.

I know a few years ago, before I had any respect for him or his fighting abilities, I suggested that Mundine join the WWE. I said then he was more about flash than the actual fighting. And he could be billed as the only aboriginal in the WWE. (this was at a time when we had "the only olympic gold medalist in the wwe" and "the only harvard graduate in the wwe" etc)

Chris Masters? c'mon? You're saying the character of Batista is one dimension and you like Chris Masters hahaha.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Masters does have a sort of cockyness to him that's pretty entertaining, and his goofiness on the mic always allows for some entertaining spots. I'd hater to have him as champ though, let alone a Batista like champ, holding the title for over a year in effect.

[bauer]

NO ONE bores me more than Chris Masters. I even like Batista more than Masters...

[Dr. Horrible]

lashley?

[BIG PETE]

hmmm - being a big guy myself, I like the big guys. Batista, Lashley, Goldberg. I really can't get into the middleweight characters.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I've always enjoyed wrestlers who could suplex well, and did it a lot. It's a reason why I was such a big Steiner fan. That, and the fact that his constant anger was constantly funny.

[BIG PETE]

too many roids make scott cranky

[block02]

Time for New Year's Revolution Thoughts/Predictions

Kenny Dykstra vs. Ric Flair-WWE is obviously trying to push Kenny, but I don't think they'll give him three straight victories over Flair. Winner: Ric Flair

Women's Title-About time Victoria gets a title shot, but I doubt she'll win it yet. Winner: Mickie James

Carlito vs. Masters-Apparently their match at last year's Backlash was not good(I didn't see it) but hopefully they will redeem themselves here. Carlito needs to win and re-establish his push that has all but disappeared since this fall. This one will probably open the show. Winner: Carlito

IC Title-Tough one to call since there are talks about permanantley reuniting Jeff with Matt and Nitro seems to be in store for a big push, so putting the belt on either of them wouldn't make too much sense at this point. In any event, expect this one to steal the show. I think Jeff will keep the belt and lose it in the near future. Winner: Jeff Hardy

Tag Titles-Until it was established that the tag belts are on the line, the answer would have been DX resoundingly. But I think that HHH and HBK need to split shortly after this match and Team RKO need to drop the belt to the Hardys and split as well. Winners: Team RKO

WWE Title-Umaga should win and keep his streak intact and lose it at WM in a dramatic fashion. Therefore, a title win is needed for him. Winner: Umaga

[Dr. Horrible]

flair, carlito, vicky new champ, nitro new champ, dx new champs, and umaga new champ....yea it may be reaching a bit but i wouldnt be surprised

[block02]

Umaga winning wouldn't be as big as Edge cashing in MITB last year, but it would be a suprise to most. Even those picking Umaga to win it must have some doubt in the back of their mind(I know I do)..Like I said I'm pretty unsure about DX/RKO and Nitro/Hardy, but I doubt that all the titles will change hands.

[BIG PETE]

Umaga for DQ. Cena to keep the title.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Umaga sure as hell better not win.

[BIG PETE]

They are not going to have a non-speaking, rookie monster as champ. Can anyone say The Great Khali?

[block02]

Great booking WWE-build up an unstoppable monster for eight months then have him lose to a kick and roll-up.

[BIG PETE]

John Cena can do anything can't he?

[Nebuchanezzar]

Poor Trips eh? Anyone who says it's a work needs to be punched in the face.

[block02]

Has it been confirmed whether or not it was another quad injury? Also, how exactly did the injury occur?

[block02]

...ok it is a quad tendon tear. HHH will be out for 4-6 months. Could have been a lot worse, but it's still a huge blow to RAW in any event.

[Dr. Horrible]

jesus fuck......i really really want to turn this shit off right now

cena/khali and fake rosie? god damn

[BIG PETE]

jesus fuck......i really really want to turn this shit off right now

cena/khali and fake rosie? god damn

LMFAO - I have just been listening to an old podcast for Impactwrestling.com and have had Hank doing his usual WWE bashing, now you Mikel??? Does nobody love Vince anymore? HAHAHA

[Larson Something]

Vince is clearly a genius. A lesser man would have used the 20+ minutes of TV time he just spent on a low-rent live-action Celebrity Deathmatch on useless crap like building meaningful angles or helping young talent get over. But Vinnie Mac, he knows better. That crowd wasn't chanting "Boring!" they were chanting "Boy, this is a wonderful thing!" They were just so mesmerized by the many revelations contained in the match ("That Rosie O' Donnell is a bit on the chunky side! And Donald Trump does have a rather unusual hairstyle, doesn't he?") that their words kind of all ran together.

[BIG PETE]

You have to understand Vince's way of thinking. If it worked once back in 1985, it will work every week. People like predictability. Surpirses are scary! :deadhorse:

[block02]

And the real coup de grace, fill Triple H's void with a no-talent hack who couldn't wrestle his way out of a paper nut sack.

[BIG PETE]

And the real coup de grace, fill Triple H's void with a no-talent hack who couldn't wrestle his way out of a paper nut sack.

Well DX just came to a screaming halt. No wait! Get X-Pac on the phone! :pussy:

On another note, I am soooooo glad I don't have a paper nut sack.

[Larson Something]

I LOVE DOUBLE DOUBLE E!

[BIG PETE]

I LOVE DOUBLE DOUBLE E!

All that's missing is u? :confused:

[Nebuchanezzar]

For the first time ever on a normal broadcast of RAW, I cried.

[ButtersJ]

All WWE is John cena vs Edge or Booker.... And it's getting boring. I want Steve austin back.

[BIG PETE]

All WWE is John cena vs Edge or Booker.... And it's getting boring. I want Steve austin back.

Kiss this man! 3:16 forever.

Watching Raw the other day and they are getting as bad as smackdown with the placement of ads in the middle of a match. Vince, if it's not worth showing, then it must not be worth watching!

[Dr. Horrible]

oh please raw and smackdown have nothing compared to tna wqith ad placement

[ButtersJ]

I think Raw is still better than Smackdown. But they are becoming similar and fast. I think the only difference is with Raw is that they have the uper hand in popularity with DX and Edgey & Randy Ortan. Without them 4, they would be exactly the same.

[Dr. Horrible]

ummmm smackdown has actually been the better show for the past couple months now....with solid workers like benoit, regal, chavo, finlay, booker, taker, kane, kendrick, london, and kennedy going every week you are sure to produce some good wrestling...did you see armageddon, pretty damn good show with the exception of batista

[ButtersJ]

I loved all the drama with Undertaker and Kennedy in the Casket match or whatever It's called. I think that was a while ago now. But it was damn awesome. It's obvious that no man could get up within 5 minutes after that huge fall Undertaker took off the cambus.

[BIG PETE]

ummmm smackdown has actually been the better show for the past couple months now....with solid workers like benoit, regal, chavo, finlay, booker, taker, kane, kendrick, london, and kennedy going every week you are sure to produce some good wrestling...did you see armageddon, pretty damn good show with the exception of batista

I am the obviously only person that likes Batista. I really like Kennedy and obviously Benoit. But unfortunately Smackdown seems to need it's characters to be more "characters". It just seems they need a gimmick more than Raw. Kendrick and London were doing so well and everyone was happy with them, so what do we do? Break them up! Make them fight each other! Can anyone say "brothers of destruction"? Oh that's right, that's back on again isn't it? Chavo has to be a heal, so we have to desecrate the memory of Eddie and have him slag off at Eddie's friends - and "retire" Rey. The last time I liked a storyline with Booker in it was him vs Stone Cold in the supermarket. "Price check on a jackass!"

OK I have had my winge now.

KENNEDYYYYYYYYYYY! kennedy!

[Dr. Horrible]

big pete did u even watch smackdown, london and kendrick had a match because of the random beat the clock challenge and they shook hands and raised their arms together after the match

[Nebuchanezzar]

Wow, that sounds like an entertaining product. My problem with Smackdown is that the last time I watched it, it was as bland as hell. I wasn't watching colour, I was watching various shades of grey.

RAW may become semi-retarded every now and then, but at the very least it has characters that are kinda fun to watch and kinda fun to hate. Smackdown has none of that, and all the show's marks defend it based on the awesome wrestling that's on it. Yes, that may be all well and good, but as a wrestling fan introduced to the product during the attitude era, I've become accustomed to being entertained by characters and storylines rather than with well constructed matches.

[ButtersJ]

I agree with Neb.

Raw contains some good, funny faces like Edge, Randy Ortan, HHH and Michaels. Those guys liven up Raw.

[Dr. Horrible]

edge and orton are heels and trips will be out for a while

the king booker gimmick has reviatlized bookers career, finaly benoit and regal are always a treat to watch in the ring, taker and kane have been having a great feud with kennedy and mvp, and they dont have shit like donald vs rosie

besides with rated rko and dx taking up most of the time on raw, the undercard for raw has nothing to do, guys like shelton, carlito, nitro, jeff are getting wasted because too much time is being spent on pointless hollywood shit and dx/rko

[ButtersJ]

That's sorta true. But DX are popular.

My favorite on raw has always been Carlito :P

[Dr. Horrible]

so what if dx is popular, trips and shawn are in my top 10 favorite all time as well as edge, but if you dont have a defined undercard then all your ppvs are going to be worth shit, armageddon was one of the ebst single brand ppvs this year and it was because of the well defined undercard of smackdown

[ButtersJ]

I like Carlito for his selfishness and spitting in people's faces.

DX bring Raw the very best, The drama is awesome. That's something that Smackdown doesn't have.

[Dr. Horrible]

so the dx segment where triple h and candace were pretending they were getting head was awesome...even though you could obviously see they had pants on........or how bout dx making mince emat of the entire tag team division, and destroying the great gimmick of the spirit squad? was that awesome for raw, but you're right smackdown has no one that dominating to the point where they make everyone else look insignificant

[ButtersJ]

Yeah. If theres one thing that's still going good in WWE, is classic good ole Raw drama :)

[Nebuchanezzar]

undercards don't sell PPV's, with the exception of cage, ladders and TLC matches of course. the main events are what people care about, and it's a bit silly to hold the focus on the main-event stars on RAW against the show. it was like that in 1998 when things were the most succesful in both companies, and i see little reason why it should change. thats not to say that there shouldn't be any attention given to the undercard though, that would be moronic to say that. part of why wrestling in 1998, especially in the wwf, was so succesful was because of the rock v hhh feud that was swirling underneath the waves of stone cold v corparation. there needs to be attention given to undercards to develop the stars of tommorow, but the majority of airtime should be given to the main event stars.

it's a pity though, that the main event involving cena or batista is automatically not going to be terribly entertaining.

[BIG PETE]

another reason that we need undercard matches is if something suddenly changes. You know like...oh I don't know, Triple H getting crippled!

[Nebuchanezzar]

Some people think it's a hoax.

[BIG PETE]

generally there is another underlying factor if WWE publically sit someone out (JR's firing when he needed surgery). Fair enough he has a new baby, but he is not going to take 6 months off to look at the baby. I can't think of how this would effect DX in a positive way either...

[Dr. Horrible]

Some people think it's a hoax.

those people are fucking idiots

and undercards do sell ppvs, case in point is the ecw ppv....no one bought it simply for the chamber and hardyz/mnm if maybe they had some other matcvhes announced like a ballz or sandman extreme rules match or something along the lines of an undercard the ppv would have sold a lot better

and promotions like ecw and tna rely so heavily on the undercard, thats why they do good business...even wcw to an extent because no one was buying their ppvs for the world title feuds they wanted to see cruiserweights and other undercard feuds involving ravens flock and jericho and whatnot

[Nebuchanezzar]

I wholeheartedly disagree. People WERE buying the WCW PPV's for the main events, and that's evidenced by the fact that no-one except the most knowledgeable mark gives a shit about what was happening with the WCW undercard back in the day. I mean, think back to a couple of PPV's in 1999 or 2000, and I guarantee you that you'll struggle to name much further beyond the main event. Sure, there were some golden oldies like the good housekeeping match, mississippi river fight and kennel from hell, but that's it really.

[Dr. Horrible]

really then how come when all of wcw's midcard talent left for wwe between 199-2001 did wcw start losing money hand over fist when all the main event talent was still there

[BIG PETE]

the ecw ppv....no one bought it simply for the chamber and hardyz/mnm if maybe they had some other matcvhes announced like a ballz or sandman extreme rules match or something along the lines of an undercard the ppv would have sold a lot better


Didn't Sandman screw them on this? I honestly don't remember if it was December to Dismember or whether it was just a house show, but I heard that Sandman refused to go on for his scheduled match, or didn't show up, or was asleep backstage or something.

[Dr. Horrible]

sabuy was sleepin backstage but he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way so he was taken out of the chamber

[BIG PETE]

Sorry - never was a great fan of ECW. It always seemed like Backyard Wrestling - extreme but still seeming even more fake than the mainstream.

[Dr. Horrible]

wow.......go watch some ecw from 95, probably the best stuff out there

wwe and wcw has made ecw out to be nothing but staple guns and fire tables, when it was a lot mroe than that

[Nebuchanezzar]

really then how come when all of wcw's midcard talent left for wwe between 199-2001 did wcw start losing money hand over fist when all the main event talent was still there

because the nwo angle was being recycled endlessly, things were getting stale and the whole production was coming across as very tacky. theres also the fact that the wwf's stuff in 99/00 was 100000000000 times better than wcw's, and as such people were flocking to see the ministry v corparation v austin angle, rather than nwo version34. the midcard had very little to do with it.

[Dr. Horrible]

so youre telling me that jericho, benoit, eddie, saturn, and malenko all leaving wcw and debuting in wwe at the same time along with midcard status guys like kurt angle, chyna, kane, rikishi had nothing to do with the demise of wcw

[Imperciph]

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you Neb. Midcards are important. Sure, Austin vs. Ministry vs. Corporation feud was awesome and 10000000 times better than the main event feuds at WCW at that time, but at the same time all WWF ppvs had had much more meat to them than only the main events. Take 2000 for example : as great was the continuing Vince/HHH vs. Austin/Rock feud, in addition to that the culmination of other great things like The IC title feud between Angle/Benoit/Jericho, TLC matches between Hardy Boyz/ Dudleys/Edge and Christian, Kane's evolution as a character, Rikishi's new gimmicks, the gimmick of the Hardcore title being defended 24 hours a day were what that made WWF much better than WCW.

[BIG PETE]

I miss Y2J - his singing sucks... come back Jericho

[Nebuchanezzar]

so youre telling me that jericho, benoit, eddie, saturn, and malenko all leaving wcw and debuting in wwe at the same time along with midcard status guys like kurt angle, chyna, kane, rikishi had nothing to do with the demise of wcw

exactly. ask all ex wrestling fans on the street, or anyone but a smark (who are known to not exactly be a majority) why they watched the wwf in 1999. The answer? "Oh my god! Steve Austin rocked!"

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you Neb. Midcards are important. Sure, Austin vs. Ministry vs. Corporation feud was awesome and 10000000 times better than the main event feuds at WCW at that time, but at the same time all WWF ppvs had had much more meat to them than only the main events. Take 2000 for example : as great was the continuing Vince/HHH vs. Austin/Rock feud, in addition to that the culmination of other great things like The IC title feud between Angle/Benoit/Jericho, TLC matches between Hardy Boyz/ Dudleys/Edge and Christian, Kane's evolution as a character, Rikishi's new gimmicks, the gimmick of the Hardcore title being defended 24 hours a day were what that made WWF much better than WCW.

the intercontinental title, and angles little scuffle with Stephanie Mcmahon are a pretty obvious exception to my rule, as are tlc matches. everything else is pretty meh. Kane was a main event star at the time, and rikishi was being acknowledged as almost being there (his involvement in the austin story speaks as evidence for that), and the hardcore matches were never anything anyone tuned in for a reason to watch. Yes, the wwf's success was caused by a whole bunch of things, but above all, the absolute main reason why anyone bothered to tune in for any of this stuff was for the main event, 1999 and 1998 moreso than 2000 and 2001. i probably went too far in saying that no-one gave a shit about the midcard, so i'll eat my words there. everything else though, is still true. the wwe still sells ppvs based on their main events primarily, not on the undercard. surely the fact that raw ppvs get a much higher buyrate than ecw and smackdown ppvs (by and large) backs that idea up.

of course, i don't want to take what i originally said and bend it around too much. i originally said that i disagreed with the notion that wcw was selling ppv's because of the undercard, which i still vehemently believe is not anywhere near close to being true. people wanted to see goldberg, hogan and the nwo. they didn't want to see jericho, saturn and malenko, and bischoff knew it. wcw wasn't killed because they left, wcw was killed because the main event fell through.

[Dr. Horrible]

wcw was killed because the actual wrestlers on the show left

let's take a look at wrestlemania 2000 where kane was not in a main event, he tagged with rikishi against xpac and road dogg for christs sake, angle, benoit, and jericho were all not main event talent....neither was eddie or chyna and a lot of peopole bought that wrestlemania for those matches

secondly you can't say that the intercontinetal title is excusable when talking about the midcard, it is the midcard fucking title....if the ic belt isn't built up as having a streong division for it then no one will care about it, ditto for the european title....now take a look at wcw's titles besides the world title, did anyone really care about any of them? no, the us title may have had some credibility at one point, but does anyone remember the short lived cruiserweight tag title....or wcw's hardcore belt, which was held by the hardcore norman smiley....the bottom line is that a main event can sell a card, but a midcard division and undercard matches are whaty make it a great pay-per-view

to go back even further to 1999, wrestlemania 15 had guys like owen hart and yoko as the tag team champs, not seen as main eventers but still a very hgue draw for the show...there was the dx underlings that always drew a good crowd but were not main eventers, neither kane nor triple h were main event level talent and they had a very heated rivalry surrounding chyna

wrestlemania 14 in 1998 was the birth of the austin era, but it had a damn fine undercard and thats why people regard it as a good wrestlemania, the new age outlaws had esentially a hardcore match with funk and foley, none of whom were main eventers, thghe fued between the factions were still going on with the NOD and DOA, also the rock was jsut beginning his rise in the midcard when he kept his ic belt over ken shamrock who was a huge midcarder at the time

so when you say that the midcard doesnt really sell any ppvs...guess again

[Ndamukong Mike]

This might sound weird, but my favorite wrestlers were always midcard when I first started watching. Triple H and DX was a midcard and they squared off against the Nation more midcards. I loved the tag team division back then too. I use to like WCW more, and Booker T, Fit Finley, the Raven, DDP. Those were my favorites.

I was never a Steve Austin fan, too late to get on the Michaels bandwagon, didn't care much for Taker. So I watched primarily for the midcard.

I find myself turning in every once and awhile, and besides not knowing who any of the wrestlers are, I mostly find myself bored with the gimmicks.

[BIG PETE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm4jlEb5sEM

Aside from the extreme rubbish at the end, maybe Vince should pay attention.

[Nebuchanezzar]

let's take a look at wrestlemania 2000 where kane was not in a main event, he tagged with rikishi against xpac and road dogg for christs sake, angle, benoit, and jericho were all not main event talent....neither was eddie or chyna and a lot of peopole bought that wrestlemania for those matches

Perfect Dark president: You can't make accusations like that without evidence. I assume that you have some.

secondly you can't say that the intercontinetal title is excusable when talking about the midcard, it is the midcard fucking title....if the ic belt isn't built up as having a streong division for it then no one will care about it, ditto for the european title....now take a look at wcw's titles besides the world title, did anyone really care about any of them? no, the us title may have had some credibility at one point, but does anyone remember the short lived cruiserweight tag title....or wcw's hardcore belt, which was held by the hardcore norman smiley....the bottom line is that a main event can sell a card, but a midcard division and undercard matches are whaty make it a great pay-per-view

My point exactly. In 1996, no-ne gave a shit about any of these titles in WCW. The same went for 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001. If you and I agree that no-one cared for WCW's midcard, can you explain to me what might have been the deciding factor in WCW's success? May I suggest the main event? May I suggest that with this revelation, that the main event was almost the SOLE reason why anyone would bother ordering WCW PPV's. Of course, I'm sure you agree that main events are the main selling point of PPV's anyway, you just seem to think that the midcard is more than a developmental territory for the main event.

to go back even further to 1999, wrestlemania 15 had guys like owen hart and yoko as the tag team champs, not seen as main eventers but still a very hgue draw for the show...there was the dx underlings that always drew a good crowd but were not main eventers, neither kane nor triple h were main event level talent and they had a very heated rivalry surrounding chyna

Yokozuna was at Wrestlemania 15? Don't you mean Jeff Jarret? Anyway, I do see your point that the mid card was at least mildly entertaining on that night. I'd like to call back attention to something like Wrestlemania 14 though, almost universally regarded as top 5 material. I remember watching the video well, and I assume that a lot of others felt the same by looking at crowd reaction and general reactions to the PPV. The whole way through, everyones mind was on the main event. The announcers, the audience, the pres gallery, the viewers and the people watching it five years later on home video. The main event was the deciding factor in people buying that PPV. The midcard was a nice looking entree, but nothing compared to the main event seafood banquet. That's the way it's always been, and its the way it always should be.

wrestlemania 14 in 1998 was the birth of the austin era, but it had a damn fine undercard and thats why people regard it as a good wrestlemania, the new age outlaws had esentially a hardcore match with funk and foley, none of whom were main eventers, thghe fued between the factions were still going on with the NOD and DOA, also the rock was jsut beginning his rise in the midcard when he kept his ic belt over ken shamrock who was a huge midcarder at the time

I just replied to that paragraph above when I read this. I can't be bothered to edit it anymore.

so when you say that the midcard doesnt really sell any ppvs...guess again

Now, now.

Edit: Has anyone noticed that Kurt Angle isn't dead yet, like the Wrestling Observer was telling us he was going to be?

[Dr. Horrible]

main events draw people into a show but if the main event is not populated with people who can actually wrestle a good match (read as: hogan, goldberg, savage in his later days, hall, nash), then it's the responsibility of the undercard to be the work horses and convince people that it is a good product and when realy good technicalt wrestlers and lucha stars left that began the slow demise of wcw, the oversaturation of the nwo just helped it along

[Matt B.]

Anyone gonna catch the start of MTV's Wrestling Society X?

[Dr. Horrible]

nah i read the results like 3months ago

[ButtersJ]

Main events rock. That's when all the great stuff is planned to happen.

[block02]

OK before I go on this rant let me say that Shawn Michaels is easily one of my top 5 wrestlers ever. Having said that, somebody please explain to me the logic in having him single-handingly destroy RAW's two top heels. Edge and Orton would have both benefited greatly had they taken out Michaels and Michaels still would have looked strong putting up a great fight against them. What's worse, it looks like they're turning Orton or Edge face. Dear God no. Orton's a pretty decent heel(unless of course he's having an "off night" mic wise) and Edge has got to be WWE's top heel currently. But they are both terrible faces(esp. Orton) This would be a terrible decision on Creative's part.

[Dr. Horrible]

well to be fair he fought off both of them but he only destroyed orton as edge took the cowards route

[BIG PETE]

Jericho was possibly the best ever heal

[Nebuchanezzar]

I vote HBK was.

[Dr. Horrible]

your both wrong, ric flair is the right answer

[block02]

Randy Savage has got to be up there too.

[BIG PETE]

Just watching Raw now... Carlito is being thrust into the spotlight really fast isn't he now there is no HHH. Torrie makes my pants messy....

[block02]

Carlito is being thrust into the spotlight really fast
Yep no better way to push deserving talent than have them be squashed by somebody who probably considers actually covering an opponent too much work.

[Nebuchanezzar]

To be fair, it'd be a little unrealistic to have Carlito not being squashed by Kahli. That could be solved by not having Kahli in there at all. Meh, it got Carlito on the air next to McMahon, hence Carlito fans should be thankful.

[Dr. Horrible]

i thought the carlito/khali segment was actually really good, it got carlito into the 10 main event spot, his speech beforehand showed that wwe creative may not be as braindead as we thought, and carlito actually getting in offense would have been unrealistic

[BIG PETE]

I agree - I don't like Khali at all. He is so unmarketable. Let's see, his angle will be.... unintelligable monster. OK, now when that is enough we will change to, um, orator. No. Love machine? No. Um First Calcutta Tech graduate in the WWE. Oh no, too Christopher Nowinski....Unintelligable monster?

[Nebuchanezzar]

RAW was quite good this week.

[Dr. Horrible]

I agree - I don't like Khali at all. He is so unmarketable. Let's see, his angle will be.... unintelligable monster. OK, now when that is enough we will change to, um, orator. No. Love machine? No. Um First Calcutta Tech graduate in the WWE. Oh no, too Christopher Nowinski....Unintelligable monster?

andre the giant was pretty marketable...

[BIG PETE]

andre the giant was pretty marketable...

He had character, and you could sometimes understand what he was saying.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Andre the giant was massive. Kahli is only...kinda massive. Remember that too.

[Dr. Horrible]

actually khali is dimensionally bigger than andre...and he can actually work a bit better than andre could back in the day

[Nebuchanezzar]

Andre wasn't meant to be that bad in his early heyday. I can't say for sure, as I can't really say I've watched any tapes from like, 1975.

[ButtersJ]

I hate Khali. He's so gay and ugly. Why can't he leave the wrestling to the good wrestlers like Cena, Umaga, Undertaker... And he is a retard when he tries to talk XD

[Dr. Horrible]

Why can't he leave the wrestling to the good wrestlers like Cena, Umaga

you lose all credibility with this one statement...sorry dude


my point about andre is though, he was an attraction then jsut liek khali is now...andre was not a great wrestler, he couldnt really talk on the mic...hence the reason they gave him heenan for the biggest match of his career

[ButtersJ]

I hate all this talk about "Did you see the great Khali" and all that shit. It's anoying. :P

I guess your right tho.

[Dr Zaius]

It's just that Vince gets a big boner over over the big, talentless, useless dominating guys. He thinks that's what we want to see. Most of the top wrestling stars haven't been gigantic, Austin, Rock, HHH etc.

[ButtersJ]

Good point.

Man, we need Austin back.

[BIG PETE]

Austin was 6'2" he just looked short next to people like The Rock (6'5") Kevin Nash (7'-7'1"), Hogan (6'6") - even Vince Macmahon is billed at 6'2"

[ButtersJ]

That's true. I didn't actually know their heights though :P

[Dr. Horrible]

shit im 6'2....

[MJD]

you lose all credibility with this one statement...sorry dude


Actually Cena and Umaga worked a good match at New Years Revolution, that told a good story, something soley lacking in most matches today.

[Dr. Horrible]

yes, but they are by no means good wrestlers...they are good brawlers and good performers, but as far as a technical wrestling classic, these aint the gfuys to call on

[Nebuchanezzar]

Yeah, but being a technical genius doesn't exactly mean you're a great wrestler.

Steve Austin.

[ButtersJ]

I like Umaga. I have always loved the badies in WWE. XD

[BIG PETE]

Shelton Benjamin is a good technical wrestler, that doesn't mean you want to hear what he has to say - watch him wrestle? Hell yeah - but not anything else. Angle was the full package (when he wasn't given crap storylines)

[Dr. Horrible]

i refer you to bret hart, kurt angle, the chris' benoit and jericho, and i would much rather watch shelton and charlie put on a 5 star mat classic for 30 mins than a 10 minute cena/umaga promo :)

[ButtersJ]

There's one fault in Shelton Benjamin though. He has often lost matches with small mistakes. Some to people like Carlito.... XD

Kurt Angle was just the best. I don't like it when he becomes good though, I like the Evil Angle.

[Nebuchanezzar]

i refer you to bret hart, kurt angle, the chris' benoit and jericho, and i would much rather watch shelton and charlie put on a 5 star mat classic for 30 mins than a 10 minute cena/umaga promo :)

keep in mind that you are the minority.

[Dr. Horrible]

really?

check the ratings from when wrestling went from good wrestlers who were also good entertainer (aka attitude era with rock, austin, jericho, angle) to the ratings now....they've cut in half

[Nebuchanezzar]

its quite peculiar, that you'd change your list if wrestlers from the likes of benoit, jericho and hart to austin, angle and rock.

[Dr. Horrible]

i simple replace benoit and hart with rock and austin since benoit was on nitro then and hart wasnt on raw every day....trust me the same point applies

[Imperciph]

there needs to be a balance between good performers and technical geniuses. best is when technical geniuses themselves are great performers (jericho, flair, angle). problem nowadays is that most of the wrestlers in the limelight are technically quite weak and their ability to cut promos/ their overall gimmick is not entertaining enough to sustain the viewer's interest to begin with.

[Ndamukong Mike]

As a casual fan the wrestling can be great, but the gimmick also needs to be as well. I loved Jericho because he had great gimmicks. Probably one of my all-time favorites.

[ButtersJ]

I never liked Jericho. I was more for The Rock and Stone cold. for the same reasons everybody else found them entertaining.

[Nebuchanezzar]

there needs to be a balance between good performers and technical geniuses. best is when technical geniuses themselves are great performers (jericho, flair, angle). problem nowadays is that most of the wrestlers in the limelight are technically quite weak and their ability to cut promos/ their overall gimmick is not entertaining enough to sustain the viewer's interest to begin with.

only if, and this is true in the case of angle, flair and jericho, their style of wrestling is interesting. those guys could put together an exciting match that wasn't what id really call "technical", whereas a typical 30 minute benoit-fest is outrageously technical, but boring.

[ButtersJ]

If you want Technical, That's what Chris Benoit is. He is so good when he never gives up and just keeps on coming at you. I'd say he will be in Hall of fame on day.

[Dr Zaius]

Loved Jericho when he first came to the WWE. 2000-ish, when he feuded with Benoit and Angle etc. Thought he sucked as a main event heel. Although his run at the top was ridiculously booked (I remember him beating Tazz on SmackDown in the first match of the night and then he wasn't even mentioned for the rest of the show, and this was when he was World Champ). Jericho's great as a mid-card heel but I just couldn't buy him as the monster heel of the biz, you couldn't compare him to HHH in that position. Nowadays I have the same prob with Edge and Orton.

[BIG PETE]

I personally only started watching around 2000 when Y2J was introduced and HHH seemed to have already been established in his role as a main-eventer. So watching Jericho make the transition from mid carder to "undisputed heavy weight champion" always left part of him as a mid carder in my mind. The same with Edge. However, people like Randy Orton and Batista were "dragged" up to main event by the likes of HHH very quickly so I have always mostly associated them as main eventers. If Orton had't been a wanker, he would've stayed there instead of only making the comeback now.

[block02]

Time for Royal Rumble predictions:

MNM vs. Hardys: This will be a great way to open the show. Considering Mercury and Nitro have been jobbing their asses off to Matt and Jeff lately, expect a win for MNM.

ECW Title: Of all the potentially great contenders Lashley could have, why God do we have to put up with Test? Test is a fine competitor in his own right, but not nearly as deserving as Sabu, CM Punk, or even RVD again. Lashley should win and be challenged by a heel CM Punk at Wrestlemania.

World Title: Kennedy is great, but the only reason he's in this match is to get exposure in a world title match, which will likely be parlayed into a high-profile match at WM(against who I can't decide yet) So sad to say, he's got no chance against the roided up hack.

WWE Title: As if it wasn't obvious enough from last night's ambush, Creative is really pushing the fact that Cena's got no chance, so naturally he'll pull of the Superman routine and be the last man standing.

Royal Rumble Match: Well the plans for WM are HBK vs. Cena and Undertaker vs. Batista, so it's gotta be either HBK or 'Taker. It's kinda hard to pick between those two though...but judging from last night, it looks like Edge and Orton are gonna cancel each other out, Orton is gonna turn face(May God have mercy on us all) and they will have a match at WM. So since either one of them would have been most likely to eliminate HBK, if they cancel each other out, then that makes Michales all the more likely to win it than 'Taker. But I'll have to catch Smackdown before I can be too confident about that...still gotta go with HBK though.

[Nebuchanezzar]

1. Hardy's
2. Lashley
3. Batista
4. Cena
5. HBK

[Dr. Horrible]

mnm, test, big dave (though i would really like for a kennedy/taker title match at mania), cena, taker or orton

[BIG PETE]

Same as Neb - you have to remember that they are not really going to fight kiddies. Vince thinks they're the biggest sellers, then they're gunna win.

[Dr Zaius]

ECW ought to belong to the originals. Why are Test and Lashley, WWE-home growns, running the show? That stinks. That is total BS.

[bauer]

ECW ought to belong to the originals. Why are Test and Lashley, WWE-home growns, running the show? That stinks. That is total BS.
It's the reason I haven't watched that watered down shit in MONTHS. Total garbage.

[Dr Zaius]

And on top of that you got REAL ECW stars like Sandman and Dreamer jobbing to fags like Khali and Elijah Burke. Fuck you, Vince. ECW just seems to me like a place to keep wrestlers occupied who haven't got anything to do in Raw or SD.

[BIG PETE]

Isn't it a dumping ground for SD rejects? I thought SD was as low as they could go

[Dr Zaius]

Sandman got crapped on at the Rumble. One of the quickest eliminations. Undertaker's win was a big surprise for me, I would have hoped for someone fresher. Edge or Orton winning would have put me off for the rest of the year. I guess it'd be Taker/Batista now at Mania.

[BIG PETE]

wouldn't that be Taker's first loss at Wrestlemania? Surely a subtle (hahahaha sorry) sign from Vince that the Undertaker is bowing out for good.

[block02]

Having Taker lose at Mania would be the single dumbest thing Vince has ever done, and we all know that is no small feat.

[Curtis]

The DX-RKO feud has really developed nicely despite HHH's injury. I really like how Orton, Edge and especially Shawn all turned their sights on the WWE Championship. Despite Undertaker showing up at the end of Raw I think that was just a tease. He will probably do the same thing on ECW. In the end I see him doing a job to Batista at Wrestlemania which is a shame because if anybody should end Taker's streak I think it should be Ken Kennedy. Kennedy is a bright star emerging on Smackdown and him and Taker's feud has been great stuff. I would love to see it come to a head at WM. On the Raw side I'm hoping for Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (heel) with Orton and Edge fighting each other lower in the card. My guess as of right now is a four way fight. On the ECW side I would love to see RVD win the belt from Lashley and defend it against CM Punk but Vince is in love with Lashley who is just another Lesnar. They will probably do something like Test vs. Lashley vs. RVD. Should be a good next two months though seeing what develops in the championship scenes on all brands.

[Lounge Fly]

Its a disgrace really giving taker a rumble win when he's in his mid 40's.

Anyone going to buy Kurt Angle: The Downfall DVD?

[BIG PETE]

Last wrestling dvd I bought was Mick Foley's Greatest Hits and Misses - you know it was entirely for the Hell in a Cell match with Taker!!

[Nebuchanezzar]

The DX-RKO feud has really developed nicely despite HHH's injury. I really like how Orton, Edge and especially Shawn all turned their sights on the WWE Championship. Despite Undertaker showing up at the end of Raw I think that was just a tease. He will probably do the same thing on ECW. In the end I see him doing a job to Batista at Wrestlemania which is a shame because if anybody should end Taker's streak I think it should be Ken Kennedy. Kennedy is a bright star emerging on Smackdown and him and Taker's feud has been great stuff. I would love to see it come to a head at WM. On the Raw side I'm hoping for Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (heel) with Orton and Edge fighting each other lower in the card. My guess as of right now is a four way fight. On the ECW side I would love to see RVD win the belt from Lashley and defend it against CM Punk but Vince is in love with Lashley who is just another Lesnar. They will probably do something like Test vs. Lashley vs. RVD. Should be a good next two months though seeing what develops in the championship scenes on all brands.

Indeed, I concur. Welcome back, btw.

[BIG PETE]

Indeed, I concur. Welcome back, btw.

concur ? Wasn't that in a word-of-the-day-calender?

[Nebuchanezzar]

'Twas, but I started using that word back in high school, when it was the 'in' word after the 'man' and 'dude' craze. Um, to make this thread on topic - how about RAW eh? I haven't seen it yet, but you know, it's on this afternoon here.

[BIG PETE]

Yeah I missed it last week so I am hoping that that might make this afternoon's episode seem a bit more exciting

[bauer]

Its a disgrace really giving taker a rumble win when he's in his mid 40's.
Disgrace? Fucking guy has worked his ass off for the company for years. Probably one of the biggest wrestling superstars you will ever see. He probably wants to retire soon and they are going to give him another title before he goes.

[Dr. Horrible]

Disgrace? Fucking guy has worked his ass off for the company for years. Probably one of the biggest wrestling superstars you will ever see. He probably wants to retire soon and they are going to give him another title before he goes.

quoted for truth, taker and shawn as the last two men was the most thrilling end to a rumble ive ever seen

[ButtersJ]

That was pretty awesome. Royal Rumbles are always good though.

[Nebuchanezzar]

More important than this legacy or respect stuff that people are saying, is that 'Taker is extremely entertaining in pretty much anything that he's in. He deserves to win purely to make wrestling really exciting once again.

[ButtersJ]

That's not true, he makes Wrestling seem even more fake when he just gets back up after been smacked around the head with a fucking hammer :P

[Dr. Horrible]

you really need to get some education on the sport of wrestling son, then come back and retract your statement like a good little mark

[BIG PETE]

HAHAHA I was just wondering if anyone knows much about Undertaker outside of wrestling? I know about Sara but has anyone heard other wrestlers saying he's "caring" "funny" "educated" "quiet" "a great dad" or anything about what he is like as a person? Just curious. I read one time in a wrestling magazine, when asked "who would you most like to sit next to on a long trip" most people named Chris Jericho. Shaun Michaels is religious - as was Eddie. You know what I mean.

Another thing. I was watching Raw yesterday and I am genuinely surprised to see the popularity (myself included) of characters that seemed doomed on paper. That is Cryme Time. At first they appeared very stereotypical and one-dimensional but I think the characters are doing an outstanding job. Sure as eggs Vince will fuck it up and have them rewritten into something even more ridiculous until they decide that they are unpopular and to get rid of them. Kudos also to Vito. In an almost carbon copy of latter Perry Saturn (except for the love affair with a mop) I thought he was finished. His personality though has continued to warm fans to his character - bet they weren't expecting that

[block02]

Nice burn Mikel. BTW Smackdown spoilers are at wrestlezone.com and

No Way Out's main event is HBK and Cena vs. Undertaker and Batista

[Dr Zaius]

That sounds cool. Looks like it could work into a great angle.

HAHAHA I was just wondering if anyone knows much about Undertaker outside of wrestling? I know about Sara but has anyone heard other wrestlers saying he's "caring" "funny" "educated" "quiet" "a great dad" or anything about what he is like as a person? Just curious.

Foley and Rock both had great things to say about him in their books. They both acknowledge Taker as true pro who majorly helped them get over. Taker even had no problem allowing a young Rock to get a clean win over him once on Raw, he simply said to him "It's your time, kid". I think he's a quiet guy who's fond of motorbikes and boxing. And also one tough SOB. I read somewhere he kicked the shit out of JBL once and used to work as a loan shark. Don't know if that's true, but it sounds damn cool.

[block02]

Michaels vs. Cena at Wrestlemania....*changes pants*

[Dr. Horrible]

to what?

sorry to say but a hbk/cena match will be good but its hardly pants pissing worthy, i would have much preferred to see a heel hbk vs flair at mania and then have a triple threat with edge/orton and cena

[block02]

All that matters is that HBK's getting a title match and if the Flair promo on Carlito was any indication, WWE just might give Michales the belt. Plus I wanted the title match to stay one-on-one; I was afraid Edge and Orton would have been in it too and that would have been overdoing it(anybody remember Wrestlemania 2000?)

[Dr. Horrible]

yea....that was good match, when theres no real heat between the two guys you want for a one-on-one main evetn for the sake of having a one-on-one main event, why try and create heat, instead you can use actual past feuds and combine them together by putting edge and orton into it as well

[ButtersJ]

DX are overrated and crap. All the 12 year olds fall for it.

[Dr. Horrible]

please leave the thread....seriously

[Dr Zaius]

I'd say 8 year olds more like.

Anyway, the two big championship matches at Mania excites me. I'll be really looking forward to see how this progresses.

Also, this Donald Trump shit has to end. Fast.

[D DEBBS]

DR. ZAIUS: This Donald Trump shit has to end...fast.

I second the motion.

[Lounge Fly]

Michaels vs. Cena at Wrestlemania....*changes pants*

HBK will inevitably job.

Taker will go over unpopular backstage Tista`.

Heard it here 1st.

[BIG PETE]

Never been a fan of face vs face matches or face vs mysterious (for Taker) because they will innevitably rush a half assed story line through now trying to get everyone to hate Cena, Michaels, Batista or Taker. It's all well and good to have two guys fight and shake hands at the end, it just doesn't rate high.

[Curtis]

I'm hoping they make Shawn the bad guy in his feud with Cena. He is at his best when heel. Also don't be to sure about Cena going over at WM. I could definitely see Trips coming out and smashing a crutch over Cena's head.

[Nebuchanezzar]

^Very much agreed about HBK

[BIG PETE]

I'm hoping they make Shawn the bad guy in his feud with Cena. He is at his best when heel. Also don't be to sure about Cena going over at WM. I could definitely see Trips coming out and smashing a crutch over Cena's head.

Excellent storyline but DX are anti-establishment (antidisestablishmentarianists?) and Vince's character isn't overly fond of Cena - what with him not being evil and such - therefore HHH would have to be on the side of the management (a la Evolution) so I just can't see a DX/management alliance. Kind of like a Macmahon/Austin tag team, never gunna happen.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Perhaps the WWE could delve into the realms of originality, and have a three way story for this whole McMahon/HBK/Cena thing, where no-one likes each other. It could easily work.

[BIG PETE]

WWE = originality. Does not compute. Does not compute. Error. Error. Error.

Funny thing last night I was cruising around youtube and I found some TNA footage. There was one scene where a couple of wrestlers were stalking Christian's missus. Not exactly cutting edge stuff since WWE did it with Diamond Dallas Page and Sara (undertaker's missus) back in 2001.

[Curtis]

Not exactly cutting edge stuff since WWE did it with Diamond Dallas Page and Sara (undertaker's missus) back in 2001.

Oh god why did you have to remind me. Such a bad way to bring him into WWE.

[BIG PETE]

hahah go DDP! Isn't he a yoga instructor now?

[Nebuchanezzar]

^That's sad. DDP was awesome, and the WWF (at that time, was it not?) left him in shambles as a wrestler. Ugh.

Statistics time! Yeah, anyone can see these, but its cool to compare.

Boogie Down Mikel 204
Jack Bauer 195
Nebuchanezzar 179
sikkbones 151
Dr Zaius 110
Lounge Fly 69
Curtis 62
Dr. Cheeks 59
Jeremy 54
block02 50
Voodoo Monkey 43
BIG PETE 41
Lizard Queen 31
duffless89 28
D DEBBS 26
Spartan 20
Larson Something 20
Butterz 19
Maxxmuscle 17
Ray Magini 13
camelenchilada 12
thecapecoddah 12
Gay4Moleman 9
Imperciph 9
Generic 7
Mayor Quimby 4
rickey 3
Lardlad Donuts 3
danno 3
tim 3
Mira 3
huh? 2
Cyclone 2
Dead Nigga Storage 2
Where's Poochie? 2
Wonderboy 2
HellKat666 2
The Chosen One 2
Sig 2
andy 2
Mac Apple 1
Navin Johnson 1
Clarence 1
phil 1
Nerd Groupie 1
simplysimpson 1
kuumuus 1
Lyle Lanley 1
MJD 1
Jake 1
Pat 1
George 1
Little Kid Lover 1

[BIG PETE]

what are they for?

[Dr. Horrible]

pwnage....as you can see im undisputed champion

[Imperciph]

heel hbk vs flair at mania

now that would be beyond awesome.

[Dr Zaius]

Yay. I'm top 5.

[Dr. Horrible]

ok seeing what wwe has doen, heres what i would have done instead a wrestlemania first

two triple threat main events

world title taker/big dave/kennedy....kennedy after a pseudo-kennedy win during his rumble rematch

wwe title cena/orton/edge

heel flair and chris masters vs hbk and carlito......or simply heel flair vs face hbk

[Lounge Fly]

Its amazing how many people say WW'E' when the logo clearly says 'WW'.

[BIG PETE]

Um World Wrestling Entertainment ? Oh ok I see. The E is silent therfore shouldn't be in the logo. No wait....

[Dr. Horrible]

no see thats why they switched to the spinner logo when its upright its two w's but if u turn it to the right it becomes and e........i thought everyone got that

[BIG PETE]

Its amazing how many people say WW'E' when the logo clearly says 'WW'.

I love how some of those "people" are the Macmahons, JR, Jerry Lawler, Raw Roster, Smackdown lockerroom.... and so forth. WTF would they know anyway?

What do you think is up with Trump's "business proposition"? I will just wet my pants if he buys WCW. I know whatever it is will just be an ego stroking excercise for Vince but wouldn't it just fucken ROCK!!!