WWE Thread

[Jeremy]

Is it anything like the one Mae Young gave birth to, or is it a completely unrelated appendage?

[Nebuchanezzar]

i said tools who make meaningless posts....thanks for showing an example, tool

anyways any other predictions for sumemrslam the card is shaping up nciely despite all the injuries

big dave vs book
chavo vs rey
edge vs cena gimmick match
dx vs mcmahons
maybe anohter ic triple threat

Yes, it sure does look like a great card. I'm certainly intrigued as to what the main event will be, what with the three contenders there are for it. Surely McMahon wouldn't put his match over the Batista match, surely.

[Dr. Horrible]

......main event?

let's see top tier guys on the card:

cena? no.
edge? no.
batista? no.
booker? no.
dx? sadly no.
mcmahons? yes....wait oh fuck hogan is on the card

main event
orton vs hogan....i'd bet money on it

[Jeremy]

That's what the card is being sold on, but the same kind of scenario happened at WM X8 - where the card was based around Hogan, and they put the title match on after it. I could see Vince's match taking precedence over a title match. That was the case at Backlash, although since is one of the "big" shows, I see them going with a "world title match" - other big match - "world title match" - other big match - "world title match" format. Maybe ECW title match, then DX-McMahons, then the World title match, then Orton-Hogan, and then the WWE title match.

[Lounge Fly]

only hogan/nwo works for me..red & yellow no thanks

[sikkbones]

Is it anything like the one Mae Young gave birth to, or is it a completely unrelated appendage?
somewhat related... except it came out of kane's manhole fully gloved....

and the return of old Lizardskin?
when will the red and yellow geratric immortal come down to the ring with his walker?

[Jeremy]

Yet ANOTHER SD guy is off the roster, as Tatanka is also suspended for 30 days.

[duffless89]

See, that's what happens when you leave your peace pipes lying around.

[Dr Zaius]

big loss

EDIT: He's faking it. So is every other SD superstar who's been taken off. They're all scared coz motherfucking Hardcore Holly is returning and he's going to kick their ass!!!!1!!11

[sikkbones]

big loss

EDIT: He's faking it. So is every other SD superstar who's been taken off. They're all scared coz motherfucking Hardcore Holly is returning and he's going to kick their ass!!!!1!!11


by jobbing to everyone?

[block02]

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=156115412

[Jeremy]

For those wondering what the contents of the link are - it states that the stipulation for the WWE title match will be that the belt can change hands via DQ.

[Lounge Fly]

somewhat related... except it came out of kane's manhole fully gloved....

and the return of old Lizardskin?
when will the red and yellow geratric immortal come down to the ring with his walker?

He already does, its called Brooke.

[sikkbones]

He already does, its called Brooke.

wonder what is gonna happen when she turns on daddy and joins up with cowboy bob orton's little bastard...
http://www.gpkworld.com/images/US16thComic10.JPG

[Nebuchanezzar]

For those wondering what the contents of the link are - it states that the stipulation for the WWE title match will be that the belt can change hands via DQ.

Wow, that'll make for an interesting match. </sarcasm>

[block02]

The Stratusfaction was botched again. Is that what it looked like at WrestleMania?

[Dr. Horrible]

Taker vs Khali last man standing at summerslam

[Dr Zaius]

Raw was gay as hell last night. I don't think I saw anything worthwhile. Orton Knows Best segment was lame.
Only good part was how the Diva Search got practically no reaction from the fans at all.

[sikkbones]

anyone know why RAW is moving from TSn to the score?

and also where the hell is ECW in canada?

you know it was pretty cool to see HHH busted for cubans hahaha... he needs to come to canada.

[block02]

Well, the IC match was pretty good, dispite the crap ending.

[Larson Something]

anyone know why RAW is moving from TSn to the score?

and also where the hell is ECW in canada?


ECW will be on Fridays at midnight on Global starting August 11th.

As for Raw moving, there has been speculation that TSN had some issues with certain incidents in the last few months (including the Edge/Lita Live Sex Celebration and the HHH/Candace oral sex simulation with the oh-so-subtle squirting mustard bottle), but it probably has more to do with TSN getting Monday Night Football than anything else.

[Jeremy]

TSN decided to officially cancel Raw due to the faux-oral sex scene. They nearly did due to the "live sex celebration" in January. There's a lot more info regarding that in the newest PWTorch newsletter.

[Dr Zaius]

The oral sex thing was the dumbest thing I've ever seen. TSN cancel WWE for that?

[Larson Something]

There's no doubt TSN had issues with content, and the Live Sex Celebration definitely did piss them off enough that getting rid of Raw was considered. But that wasn't the first time they've been unhappy with the product, and they'd always stick with them when all was said and done. In the end, I believe getting Monday Night Football was the main reason. They weren't happy about the oral sex thing for sure, but I don't think they would have dropped Raw over it if there was nothing to replace it.

WWE might have been looking to leave anyway. TSN getting MNF was going to mean that Raw wouldn't air until after midnight in eastern Canada from September to December. The Score is going to air them at 10 pm, an hour late, but at least there won't be any pre-emptions.

The one thing that I've never heard anyone mention about this is, with TSN no longer having anything to do with WWE, will they still let Michael Landsberg do one-on-one Off The Records with wrestlers? It would be kind of a shame if they didn't, but then again, why would they want to help promote a product that airs on a competing network?

[sikkbones]

There's no doubt TSN had issues with content, and the Live Sex Celebration definitely did piss them off enough that getting rid of Raw was considered. But that wasn't the first time they've been unhappy with the product, and they'd always stick with them when all was said and done. In the end, I believe getting Monday Night Football was the main reason. They weren't happy about the oral sex thing for sure, but I don't think they would have dropped Raw over it if there was nothing to replace it.

WWE might have been looking to leave anyway. TSN getting MNF was going to mean that Raw wouldn't air until after midnight in eastern Canada from September to December. The Score is going to air them at 10 pm, an hour late, but at least there won't be any pre-emptions.

The one thing that I've never heard anyone mention about this is, with TSN no longer having anything to do with WWE, will they still let Michael Landsberg do one-on-one Off The Records with wrestlers? It would be kind of a shame if they didn't, but then again, why would they want to help promote a product that airs on a competing network?


anyone here from Canada gonna miss RAW being preempted for the hockey playoffs?

[sikkbones]

Best segment: Flair-Foley. Worst: Every other segment. Just another below average episode of Monday Night McMahons. Almost every segment on this show seemed to fall flat, from the opening music cue goofs to the anti-climactic beatdown on HBK. Not sure how the reactions were live, but it seemed as if the crowd crapped all over this show. I could swear I heard crickets chirp during Orton's segment. He could've at least gotten midgets to play the Hogan family! And we get it already - Triple H is Steph's baby's daddy! I know if they tried hard enough they could make this into an interesting angle, but they pretty much botched it from the beginning. The high point of the show was the Foley-Flair segment, although Foley is still flip-flopping in his role, and it's frustrating. The ref using the Spirit Squad's megaphone was a nice touch.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I noticed that the Continental Airlines arena crowd was a lot quiter than they usually are. I always look foward to them visiting NJ and NY as it seems as if those audiences appreciate what they're given and make noise. Remember last year when they had a Cena v Angle match at CAA and the WHOLE audience was on one side or the other screaming at the top of their lungs? That was freaking awesome. They just didn't seem as loud, although they're still better than basically every other US audience.

That Foley/Flair segment is proving what I said a while ago to be awesome. What did I say? Something along the lines of this feud being awesome. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when these two were gonna get together in a feud, things would be quite good.

How exciting;

master shake...........162
Slack Jawed Mikel.....128
sikkbones................124
Nebuchanezzar.........97
Dr Zaius..................74
Dr. Cheeks...............58
Lounge Fly...............58
Curtis......................57
Voodoo Monkey.........32
Lizard Queen.............31

The next one down was D DEBBS. I didn't see much point in going on after that.

[bauer]

master shake...........162
Slack Jawed Mikel.....128
sikkbones................124
Nebuchanezzar.........97
Dr Zaius..................74
Dr. Cheeks...............58
Lounge Fly...............58
Curtis......................57
Voodoo Monkey.........32
Lizard Queen.............31

The next one down was D DEBBS. I didn't see much point in going on after that.
Oh god. I need a fucking life.

[Dr. Horrible]

eh its ok boost mobile master....we all do

anyways if the continental airlines arena (which i was at) seemed a lot quieter its because they basically stopped serving food and drinks before raw even started....lots of folks were pissed

[Nebuchanezzar]

Oh god. I need a fucking life.

What's worse: Bothering to post that list in this thread. Go me.

Surely you'd think if they stopped serving drinks at the CAA, then the anti-Cena crowd would surely be a lot louder and angrier than normal (and they were rather anti Cena)?

This may be out of date, but was thecapecoddah at a RAW event the other week? If not, there was a guy in the audience that looked just like him.

[Jeremy]

Jeff Hardy is coming back to WWE. No word on what brand he'll be on, but ECW would be perfect for him. Dave Meltzer did a write-up on him today -
http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=17017

[Nebuchanezzar]

I just don't see it leading anywhere. He's not the type of wrestling that Vince generally shoves into the spotlight these days, he can't speak, he has a reputation and he has a history of not applying himself to the WWE. It'd be nice if he did go places in the WWE, as he's a fantastic performer, but based on previous examples I don't see that happening.

[Dr Zaius]

I can't believe Eddie's wife actually got herself involved into an angle.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I suppose that happened in the Chavo/Mysterio story then. I suppose the idea of preserving her husbands legacy to the world of wrestling is a noble idea. So long as it doesn't conflict with any of her views I guess, and that Vince doesn't do anything dumb.

[Dr Zaius]

It's just how they still keep on using him to further storylines. Not as degrading as what Orton used to keep saying about Eddie, it's just not something I would agree to do if I was in her place.

[bauer]

Anyone else think that if you are going to spend $50 on a PPV, it should at least be in HD? Get on that, Vince.

Let's do a rundown, who is getting Summer Slam? Poll time, people.

[Dr. Horrible]

if they give me a triple threat ladder match for the ic title....i'm in

*note* i'll probably buy it anyway, but a tripole threat ladder would sell it for me

[bauer]

if they give me a triple threat ladder match for the ic title....i'm in

*note* i'll probably buy it anyway, but a tripole threat ladder would sell it for me
Involving whom? I'd dig it in a big, big way either way, but I'm curious as to who you want to see in it.

[Curtis]

Shelton, Carlito and Nitro in a three way ladder match would be great. I'll be watching Summerslam at a friends, he orders most Raw pay per views and the main ones and theres about four of us that always go over to watch and its a great time, especially making fun of all the stupid shit WWE has done lately.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Nargh. No money to spare for Summerslam, nor would I be home the day it's aired over here.

[Dr. Horrible]

ex-momma's boy, apple spitter, and melinasexual...they have been the high point in every raw and i think a ladder match wit those guys could be match of the year

[Dr Zaius]

We get PPVs for free in the UK so um... yeah :)

[duffless89]

In Australia, we have to pay to get the pay TV, then pay again for the PPV. We pay through the nose for wrestling here!

[Dr. Horrible]

p.s. hogan may not even be there now....yay

[Lounge Fly]

We get PPVs for free in the UK so um... yeah :)

No you dont, alot of them that used to be free now have to be paid for such as Royal Rumble. Reason why i ended my sky sports package in 2004. (despite the poor product).

[bauer]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Nature Boy has been cutting the promos of his life during this Foley feud. I can't get enough of it.

[block02]

Foley's been on the top of his game too......did anybody else love Edge's comment about how "they better get Batista before he injures himself again." Not quite as good as Jericho's shot at Kevin Nash last year, but still quite good.

[Dr Zaius]

Anyone notice Vince trip on the second rope as he was doing the HHH pose? I heard the crowd laugh and there was some pointing.

[duffless89]

Anyone notice Vince trip on the second rope as he was doing the HHH pose? I heard the crowd laugh and there was some pointing.

Did one of his grapefruits fall out or something?

[Dr Zaius]

It was quite funny. The fans laughed louder than from seeing any other crap on Raw these days.

ECW's really looking good these days I reckon. A Big Show/RVD/Sabu/Angle four-way feud sounds sweet.

[sikkbones]

I noticed that the Continental Airlines arena crowd was a lot quiter than they usually are. I always look foward to them visiting NJ and NY as it seems as if those audiences appreciate what they're given and make noise. Remember last year when they had a Cena v Angle match at CAA and the WHOLE audience was on one side or the other screaming at the top of their lungs? That was freaking awesome. They just didn't seem as loud, although they're still better than basically every other US audience.

That Foley/Flair segment is proving what I said a while ago to be awesome. What did I say? Something along the lines of this feud being awesome. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when these two were gonna get together in a feud, things would be quite good.

How exciting;

master shake...........162
Slack Jawed Mikel.....128
sikkbones................124
Nebuchanezzar.........97
Dr Zaius..................74
Dr. Cheeks...............58
Lounge Fly...............58
Curtis......................57
Voodoo Monkey.........32
Lizard Queen.............31

The next one down was D DEBBS. I didn't see much point in going on after that.


what exactly are these numbers for?


p.s. hogan may not even be there now....yay

whatcha gonna do brother?? when the biggest ego in the world decide's to cancel on you?

orton should just have the imiation hogan job to him instead.. it would be cheaper and accomplish the same thing.

[bauer]

what exactly are these numbers for?
Total posts in this thread.

[sikkbones]

Total posts in this thread.

should i be ashamed that i'm in the top three and that my running buddy Loungy hasn't even got half of my posts?

and what kind of bored person actually took the time to count those posts?

[block02]

ECW's really looking good these days I reckon. A Big Show/RVD/Sabu/Angle four-way feud sounds sweet.

Too bad Van Dam and Angle hideously botched the Vandaminator.

[sikkbones]

Too bad Van Dam and Angle hideously botched the Vandaminator.


Isn't there an ECW thread?

[Nebuchanezzar]

and what kind of bored person actually took the time to count those posts?

Well, I'm sure a simple algorithm was responsible for actually counting them. I merely clicked the number the bring up the menu, and then copied and pasted into here.

On the subject of Flair and Foley - They're the highlight of RAW to me, always. Awesome stuff they're putting out. I'll be one sad guy when the feud is over. What's more, is that I'm loving Flair at the moment! Usually I despise everything he does, but damnit he's got my support now. I'm still on Foley's side though, naturally.

Seeing Vince slip off the top rope, and then watching the camera quickly change to Shane as he must have regained his composure was quite humourous. The crowd laughter was unmistakable.

[sikkbones]

I don't like the way foley keeps flip flopping from heel to face depending on the crowd reaction... and this fued better fucking end in a hell in the cell... and/or with the black scorpion.

[Dr Zaius]

Isn't there an ECW thread?

That's more deserted than The Miz's fan club.

[block02]

That's right, all three of them.

[duffless89]

Hoo-rah!

[Dr Zaius]

*crickets*

[sikkbones]

anyone here wondered why WWE hasnt tred to connect themselves to smakes ona plane

[D DEBBS]

SIKKBONES: Anyone here wonder why the WWE hasn't tried to connect
themselves to Snakes On A Plane?

Uh...'professional courtesy?' (like the old joke with sharks and lawyers, but substitute reptiles with Vince Mc Mahon)

[Dr. Horrible]

there are ads for soap all over wwe.com and wwe prgramming

[block02]

Cena ran in and attacked Edge. Wow, who didn't see that coming? Great match between Edge and Carlito though...Sucks that Mickie had to drop the belt, she's my fave diva-Ken Doane is a lucky bastard......Hogan needs to retire after he cashes in on his quick payday at Summerslam and refuses to job......I mean after the power of Hulkamania destroyes Randy Orton for all of the Hulkamaniacs.

[Dr. Horrible]

heh hogan can barely walk

[Dr Zaius]

That was awkward as hell. It's like everyone waited for him to the legdrop but he kept fumbling around.

Another crap Raw. I'd have liked to see DX run in and go to town on Umaga's ass, that woulda gotten a major pop and Umaga would have easily regained his credibility by a quick interfierence at Summerslam or something. Instead we have some bullshit promo where nothing happens.

The Diva contestants soaking The Miz was pretty cool. Now if only they would replace the divas with Finlay, Regal, Benoit and Holly and change that soaking to a beatdown then I'd be one satisfied viewer.

[bauer]

http://wrestling.insidepulse.com/articles/50363
Apparently the planned main event for Raw's September PPV, scheduled to take place in Toronto, is Edge vs. Cena for the WWE Title in a TLC match. The storyline may be that after Edge fought Cena in Boston, he comes back to challenge Edge in Edge's specialty match in Edge's hometown. This would suggest that Cena is going to win on Sunday as Edge would have no reason to challenge Cena otherwise, but they're pretty much booking on the fly at this point so who knows.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Meh, I haven't watched RAW for the past two weeks to be honest. I caught the last half hour last week, but other than that nothing.

It'd kind of be a shame to see Edge drop the title, but it'd be a bigger shame to see it go back to Cena. He's boring. I'd like it to go to DX actually.

[block02]

Still can't figure out what's gonna be worse: Cena's regaining the title, or the fact that he's gonna be cheered for it.

[Dr. Horrible]

honestly people need to stop hating on cena because its the cool thing to do now

cena has been busting his ass ever since the ecw invasion on raw, the fued with edge is consistent and quite strong now that cena has more motivation beyond wanting is title back...

is cena the next chris benoit or ric flair? no. but is he passionate about competing? yes, cena has that fire that so many people lose once they realize they can coast on their laurels

people need to stop knocking on cena for not being a good wrestler...he's not going out there and trying to be a mat technician...he has his high spots and he can have a damn good match, his match with viscera besides the obvious impressive shows of strength was one of his best matches ive seen in a while that didnt involve another main eventer

and plus despite summerslam being in boston that doesnt guaranteed he'll be cheered

[sikkbones]

there are ads for soap all over wwe.com and wwe prgramming


i meant bringing back david crosby.. i mean jake roberts... and having a gimmick angle tied into Soap.

[Dr. Horrible]

:jackson: THERE ARE MOTHER FUCKING SNAKES IN THIS MOTHER FUCKING RING!

[sikkbones]

Batista vs. ECW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This comes from lordsofpain.net

Apparently there is some backstage heat on Batista for the way he handled himself at a recent ECW show, where he lost his cool just moments after walking to the ring when ECW fans started booing him.

Batista received negative feedback from several people backstage for losing his cool so easily, especially after Vince McMahon and Johnny Ace told him personally that booing was likely to happen.

Batista’s appearance was heavily edited for the broadcast, with WWE putting in footage of fans cheering him and holding up signs supporting him. The negative chants were covered up with a long “ECW” chant, and any remarks Joey Styles or Tazz made in regards to the fans were removed.

Credit - Wrestling Observer Newsletter

[Voodoo Monkey]

SNAKES VERSUS KANE???

[sikkbones]

SNAKES VERSUS KANE???

lol... let's not tie see no Evil to Soap lol.

[Nebuchanezzar]

honestly people need to stop hating on cena because its the cool thing to do now

cena has been busting his ass ever since the ecw invasion on raw, the fued with edge is consistent and quite strong now that cena has more motivation beyond wanting is title back...

is cena the next chris benoit or ric flair? no. but is he passionate about competing? yes, cena has that fire that so many people lose once they realize they can coast on their laurels

people need to stop knocking on cena for not being a good wrestler...he's not going out there and trying to be a mat technician...he has his high spots and he can have a damn good match, his match with viscera besides the obvious impressive shows of strength was one of his best matches ive seen in a while that didnt involve another main eventer

and plus despite summerslam being in boston that doesnt guaranteed he'll be cheered


It seems to be that the cool thing to do these days, is to defend Cena from Cena haters. The simple fact is that he's boring. I don't like watching boring wrestlers.

[Dr. Horrible]

you can't state opinions as fact...

[Nebuchanezzar]

Yeah, but you know what I meant. It was a figure of speech.

I have noticed more and more people around the wrestling forums and such have been defending Cena. What exactly has he done to deserve such treatment? I really can't see anything that he's done differently since late 2005 when he was being mercilessly booed by every part of the audience. Strangely though, he just keeps getting more and more popular.

[duffless89]

I've actually been watching the wrestling. It was good to simply be a mark again for a week.

[sikkbones]

vanilla ICE clones suck.

[block02]

Summerslam predictions:

Chavo vs. Rey
Rey should win and hopefully the end of this feud will put an end to storylines revolving around Eddie.

Foley vs. Flair
Foley lost at Vengance and Flair got the "last laugh" at ECW, so Foley needs to win here.

ECW Title
Sabu should win, but he won't just yet. If it's Extreme Rules, expect the Basham...I mean Heymen's security guards to attack Sabu and give Show the win.

World Title
Batista has become a shell of his former self, and that's not saying much anyhow. Plus a title reign for the Book was long overdue despite the crap King Booker gimmick. Too soon for him to lose the title. Perhaps some interferance from Regal and Finlay will transpire.

DX vs. Mcmahons
This feud has run its course. DX should dominate and put this storyline to rest.

Orton vs. Hogan
Hogan should job, but his ego won't allow him to.

WWE Title
It would be great if Edge got a non transitional reign, but it's not gonna happen. Since Cena's obviously gonna get the title back(God forbid if he went without it for 2 months) the best thing to do without making Edge look weak would be to have Carlito run in and attack Edge, costing him the title and setting up what could be a great Edge/Carlito feud.

[Dr. Horrible]

Yeah, but you know what I meant. It was a figure of speech.

I have noticed more and more people around the wrestling forums and such have been defending Cena. What exactly has he done to deserve such treatment? I really can't see anything that he's done differently since late 2005 when he was being mercilessly booed by every part of the audience. Strangely though, he just keeps getting more and more popular.

just because he's been getting booed doesnt mean he deserves it

afte the fued with jericho cena because really mediocre really quickly, especially when trips was out classing him at every turn...but the match at wm was solid, the three way with edge and trips was great...matches with rvd have been quite decent, and it seems he's gained a lot of his steam abck after flirting with the ecw style and im actually looking foward to thismatch with edge at summerslam

[sikkbones]

I honestly did not believe Vince McMahon could get any worse.


So according to PWInsider.com on the new Mister McMahon DVD Stephanie reveals that Vince wanted to run a storyline where he was her baby's father, but she nixed that and thus he prosposed it be Shane.

The storyline itself is atrocious but the ______ part is that he actually asked his daughter to go through with it.

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8325/ecwsandmansy3.gif

[Nebuchanezzar]

Yeah, but it is a rumour. Then again, for every daughter sex angle he came up with, he came up with twenty superb angles.

[Lounge Fly]

Yeah all those great angles...like Katie Vick, Bossman desecrating Big Show's fathers grave, & Mea Young giving birth to a hand. Al Wilson? Could go on..

[sikkbones]

Yeah all those great angles...like Katie Vick, Bossman desecrating Big Show's fathers grave, & Mea Young giving birth to a hand. Al Wilson? Could go on..


..or you could just go to wrestlecrap.

[Dr Zaius]

Al Wilson.

*shudder*


Guys who have watched the McMahon DVD tell me it's true. Vince is a sicker fuck than Mike Scully for his Bart/Lisa/Baby joke. Seriously, that guy is just disturbed.

[block02]

Summerslam Results:

Chavo vs. Rey: Chavo wins after Vickie "accidently" knocked Rey off the top rope and Chavo hits Rey with a brainbuster followed by a frogsplash.

ECW Title: Show retains after a chokeslam through a table.
Hogan vs Orton: Hogan gets his foot on the rope after an RKO and wins after the 3 punches, boot, and legdrop.

Foley vs. Flair: Flair wins after he threatens to strike Melina with a barbed wire bat.

World Title: Batista wins by DQ after Sharmell slaps him.
DX vs. McMahons: DX wins following Sweet Chin Music and a Pedigree on Vince.

WWE Title: Edge retains after using brass knucks.

[bauer]

Sounds like a shit ass ppv. Now I'm really glad I didn't buy it.

[block02]

Well, Eddie's name is gonna continue to be degraded in a tasteless feud, Batista botched a Batistabomb, Hogan still refuses to job, the I Quit match was apparently great but the crap ending was unforgivable, and Show is still ECW champ....but on the plus side, Cena didn't get the title back.

[bauer]

Let's be fair...Hogan shouldn't job.

[Dr. Horrible]

actually it wasnt all that bad....could have been a lot worse

chavo/rey was a lot of fun they really put a lot into it
show/sabu was awesome, one or two blown spots...but it was a sabu match
hogan/orton....was hogan/orton, but they didnt make orton look like shit which was nice
batista/booker was forgettable...if they threw in kennedy it might have been better
foley/flair.......wow, just wow....worth the price of the pvp to see that shit live, i didnt think the finish was shit...it went perfectly with the storyline and i hope these two guys arent done yet
dx vs mcmahons was actually really really good, i liked what they did with it vinnie using resources and almost all of them not getting squashed (ss, show, kennedy, finaly, and regal) also we saw the start of a possible kane/umaga fued which should be a lot of fun, finish was amazing to see
cena vs edge i thoguth was cenas best match, it was good back and forth action..told the story extremely well, lita filled in her spots nicely, cena showed off his strength and growing arsenal of moves and it was a very worthy main event

[bauer]

Mikel, tell me about the Foley/Flair match....

[Dr. Horrible]

chops with barbed wire covered hand
both rolling on tacks with flair takin a scoop slam on them
flair doing his best ortiz impersonation with a barbed wire bat to the head back and arm of foley
foley charging flair with the barbed wire board repeatedly

etc.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Hows about this famed finish?

[duffless89]

Apparently Foley quit because Flair threatened to hit Melina with a barbed wire bat. Boo freakin hoo. Foley himself gave Lita a barbed wire Mr Socko at WrestleMania if you recall.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/Super_Duper_Symmetric_String_Theory.jpg/200px-Super_Duper_Symmetric_String_Theory.jpg

Good news, everyone! Jeff Hardy returns tonight!

[Dr. Horrible]

Apparently Foley quit because Flair threatened to hit Melina with a barbed wire bat. Boo freakin hoo. Foley himself gave Lita a barbed wire Mr Socko at WrestleMania if you recall.

completely differetn, foley quitting when flair was about bash melina fits in perfectly with the storyline

[sikkbones]

Hogan should Only job at wrestlemania.. and not to snot nose orton...
and im glad i went for dinner instead of having beers and watching suckerslam...

and why is a ECW title match of wwe PPV?

[Dr Zaius]

Sabu botched twice in his match. And Big Dave botches the MetrosexualBomb on Booker. What a lame finish as well. A cheap Raw or SD finish, not what you'd offer to PPV fans.
Worst moment of the night was Vicky Guerrero. I LOL'd when she screeched at Rey and Chavo to "stop fighting". What does she think they do for a living? What I'd like to see is Rey and Chavo forget their issues and double team her.

Flair looked awesome all blooded up.

[Jeremy]

sikkbones, because ECW is just a brand in WWE - like Raw and Smackdown. Summerslam had two really good matches, but paled in comparison to last year's show overall. Tonight's Raw had some incredible stuff in it from Cena, Edge, Melina, and Foley, and little else.

[sikkbones]

Worst moment of the night was Vicky Guerrero. I LOL'd when she screeched at Rey and Chavo to "stop fighting". What does she think they do for a living? What I'd like to see is Rey and Chavo forget their issues and double team her.
.


tsk.. tsk.. tsk.. voilence agianst women is wrong... of course if she was part of a latino sex sandwhich... that would equal ratings...

can anyone see vince doing a angle where vickie is dating rey or some crap?

There has been informal contact made with both Road Dogg (now BG James) and Billy Gunn (Kip James) about coming back to WWE for the new DX. Road Dogg was directly approached about it, but both of them are under contract to TNA so it’s not happening.

This comes as a surprise to many as the two have publicly bashed WWE, specifically Triple H, multiple times in the past.


how long till they bring back the manbeast?

http://www.designsbypaula.com/images/joanie_laurer1.jpg

[Jeremy]

Never. Or at least as close to "never" as you can get in wrestling.

[sikkbones]

I've heard Shawn Michaels is really pissed with DX being brought back; I wonder if he's looking for a way out, and if McMahon is trying to bring the others back in order to keep DX alive should Michaels leave.

[Larson Something]

how long till they bring back the manbeast?

http://www.designsbypaula.com/images/joanie_laurer1.jpg
Maybe if Trips ever gets caught cheating on Steph, Vince brings her back and makes Hunter job to her for two years straight.

And the actual Xena will be among Chris Jericho's next opponents, along with Cheech, Marty McFly's mom, and Carlton from Fresh Prince.
http://michaeljl.net/CelebrityDuetsCJ.htm

[Jeremy]

HBK had problems with DX, but warmed up to them after a pep talk from Vince. I think the new $1.5 million contract he signed made the decision even easier.

[sikkbones]

proof that money can buy faith.

[duffless89]

Read the post after the guy below for the spoilers. My mistake.

[bauer]

No real need to spoiler tag that, duffless.

[duffless89]

Some SmackDown! spoilereenos...


MISTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Kennedy defeated Matt Hardy.

The Miz makes his in-ring debut next week. Hoo-freakin'-rah!

Sylvester Turkay defeated Tatanka.

Vickie Guerrero sides with 'la famiglia' and does the heel turn on Rey Mysterio.

WWE Tag Team Champion Paul London defeated KC James via DQ (Pitbull interference). Three team tag team feud on the way (London/Kendrick, Stevens/James and The Pitbulls).

Kristal Marshall defeated "The Artist Formerly Known As The Mole Girl" Jillian Hall.

You all remember Akio, right? Well he's redebuting in WWE with a new cowboy gimmick. His name is Jimmy Wang Yang. $10 to the first person to chant 'Brokeback Mountain' in one of his matches.

Vito defeated Sylvan. Montel Porter (MVP) sits at ringside.

Batista and Bobby Lashley defeated King Booker's Court (WWE Champion King Booker, US Champion Fit Finlay and William Regal) in the Main Event.

[bauer]

THAT you can leave in spoilers. ;)

[Nebuchanezzar]

Chyna ey. She seems like she's in good shape, compared to what she was supposed to look like a while ago. Good news.

Anyway, howsabout a new poll.

[Dr Zaius]

Vickie Guerrero sides with 'la famiglia' and does the heel turn on Rey Mysterio

:banghead:

[sikkbones]

everybody wang chung tonight??

[block02]

WWE has granted Kurt Angle an early release from his contract due to personal issues and nagging injuruies. May God have mercy on us all.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Yeah, well, if it's not a kayfabe thing, then you've got to understand that it was Kurt who must have asked for that release. He has his reasons, and I'm sure that they're serious enough to warrant him wanting an early release. I hope he comes back, but I can't help but wonder exactly how serious this stuff was to make him want to take that break so soon.

[block02]

Well, in addition to the aforementioned nagging injuries, I believe Angle is also in the midst of a divorce with his pregnant wife. And yes, Kurt did request the release.

[Jeremy]

It's too early to tell if he asked for one or WWE basically fired him and is saying they granted him an early release to save him some face. This is really good news for Kurt (and wrestling as a whole), since Kurt needs to retire for his own well-being, and he can now focus on getting his personal life and health problems in check.

[Lounge Fly]

It's too early to tell if he asked for one or WWE basically fired him and is saying they granted him an early release to save him some face.


With business so poor, the WW are in no position to fire a star as big as Kurt Angle.

[Jeremy]

This isn't about business being bad, it's about a man being insanely dedicated to wrestling. If they didn't get rid of him now, they'd be faced with the very real risk of having yet another under 40 death happening on their watch.

[sikkbones]

good riddance to kurt angle he made too much money to have been injured 75% of the time.

[bauer]

good riddance to kurt angle he made too much money to have been injured 75% of the time.
You're an idiot.

Angle talks about his release
By Michael Cole
August 26, 2006

“My body is so beat up and run down, I can’t even think straight,” Kurt Angle tells WWE.com in an exclusive interview Saturday concerning his early release from his contract with World Wrestling Entertainment. Angle and WWE officials mutually agreed to end Angle’s relationship with the company on Friday.

Angle says seven years of non-stop wrestling has taken a major toll on his body, his mind and his family. “I need my body to reheal and rehab, I have done this for too long without a break. I haven’t been able to really enjoy my life. I haven’t seen my family, I’ve had problems with medication - I’m just fried physically and mentally.”

Angle’s business manager David Hawk claims, “Kurt’s in a tremendous amount of pain, he’s used prescription medication to deal with it. Kurt has come to the conclusion that unless he can get in the ring without the use of pain medication then he doesn’t need to be in there. He realizes he was just endangering himself and his opponents.”

The last straw for Angle seems to have occurred on August 13th, 2006, at an ECW live event in White Plains, New York. Angle was wrestling Rob Van Dam in a match where both competitors were fueled by the passionate ECW fans. “The crowd was wild,” Angle says. “Early on in the match, I pulled my groin, but I kept going, feeding off the crowd. Then I pulled my abdominal muscle off the pelvic bone, but I kept going as the crowd grew more wild. Finally, I blew out my hamstring, but we finished the match. The crowd stood and applauded - a standing ovation and that meant so much to me.”

Ironically that would be Angle’s last match.

WWE.com asked Angle if he would ever return to competition in WWE. Angle says “I can’t tell you that right now, I need to heal up mentally and physically. Until then, I can’t even think about returning.”

But Angle says WWE Chairman Vince McMahon told him the door is always open. “Vince says when I’m ready, if I’m ever ready, to come back just sign on the dotted line. I’ll tell you if I do return I’m going back to my roots, training on the mat like my amateur days. Longevity is the key.”

Hawk seems confident Angle will be in the ring again someday.

Angle has a final message to his legion of WWE and ECW fans. “Don’t be concerned, this move was for the best. It was a privilege to be able to compete for all of you. I’d like to say thank you.”

WWE.com will continue to follow up on Kurt Angle over the next several months.

[bauer]

Just a reminder to everyone, Raw is on Sci Fi tonight.

[Voodoo Monkey]

Or The Score, as always.

[Dr. Horrible]

or on usa late nite after shitty tennis coverage

[Nebuchanezzar]

Or on tommorow afternoon on Fox8!

The last straw for Angle seems to have occurred on August 13th, 2006, at an ECW live event in White Plains, New York. Angle was wrestling Rob Van Dam in a match where both competitors were fueled by the passionate ECW fans. “The crowd was wild,” Angle says. “Early on in the match, I pulled my groin, but I kept going, feeding off the crowd. Then I pulled my abdominal muscle off the pelvic bone, but I kept going as the crowd grew more wild. Finally, I blew out my hamstring, but we finished the match. The crowd stood and applauded - a standing ovation and that meant so much to me.”

The man is insane.

[sikkbones]

You're an idiot.

i'm entitled to my opinion... the man spent most of his WWE career injured.

[Dr. Horrible]

newsflash retard...so does the rest of the roster

kurt angle will probably go down as the greatest performer wrestling has ever seen

[sikkbones]

newsflash retard...so does the rest of the roster

kurt angle will probably go down as the greatest performer wrestling has ever seen


retard.. man you're intelligence level is just dribbling out of you assholes today isn't it?

[Dr. Horrible]

was that english?

anyways...i'll be damned if unforgiven doesn't look like a kick ass show so far....that with the promise of nitro/hardy, kane/umaga, trish/lita, and highlander/squad....i may have to buy it

[sikkbones]

was that english?

anyways...i'll be damned if unforgiven doesn't look like a kick ass show so far....that with the promise of nitro/hardy, kane/umaga, trish/lita, and highlander/squad....i may have to buy it


wow... is WCW back in buisness?? that sounds like a lousy episode of Nitro....

[Dr. Horrible]

can we seriously ban him from this thread?

do you even know what you are talking about? if anything in wrestling is close to a lousy episode of nitro...it's TNA Impact

[Curtis]

kurt angle will probably go down as the greatest performer wrestling has ever seen

Shawn Michaels???

[Jeremy]

I'd say Benoit, Angle, Bret, and Flair are all about tied for "best performer ever" awards.

[Dr. Horrible]

if you replace bret with shawn and benoit with rock id say your dead on

[bauer]

WCW is home of Bret Hart's best match of all time. Hitman vs Chris Benoit in the Owen Hart Tribute match on NITRO. Fucking FANTASTIC.

[Imperciph]

if you replace bret with shawn and benoit with rock id say your dead on

Depends on what skills you're evaluating : if it's in-ring abilities and technical prowess, Benoit definitely deserves at least top 5. If it's skills at cutting promos and mic skills, Rock can be in any top 3 lists.

But any wrestling fan has to respect Flair : the man is still capable of cutting awesome promos and delivering classic matches even at such an age.

[bauer]

But any wrestling fan has to respect Flair : the man is still capable of cutting awesome promos and delivering classic matches even at such an age.
Post here more often. WOOOOOOOOOOO!

[duffless89]

He needs one last title run before retirement.

And by title run, I mean either WWE or World Heavyweight Championships.

[Dr. Horrible]

Post here more often. WOOOOOOOOOOO!

agreed more imperciph and less sikkbones in 06

[Imperciph]

I have to admit, WWE, Edge and yes, even Cena, are giving quite the effort to make Edge Vs. Cena quite interesting. I cannot deny eagerly anticipating how Edge performs on a singles TLC match as the tag team TLC matches featuring Edge/Christian, Hardy Boyz and Dudleys of 99-00 were IMO the most entertaining tag team matches.

But the Foley vs Flair fued was too damn good and I keep wishing it could have gone on longer, even though its longevity may have decreased its awesomeness.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I too was a mark for the Flair/Foley feud, and despite and overwhelming hatred of Flair, he did make it fun and interesting...just not as much as Foley did. That interview they had which ended with Foley saying that he didn't know what it was like to tell his kids he's been arrested was the best I've seen in years. Woo.

[Dr Zaius]

I was half asleep watching that Raw, turned over on my couch. And then suddenly I hear Foley shouting and in five seconds I'm up and as giddy as a schoolboy. That's the magic of Mick.

[sikkbones]

agreed more imperciph and less sikkbones in 06


sikkbones for moderator....

[Nebuchanezzar]

more Foley in 07...or a new wrestler that's as good as Foley preferably. Less old men in 07.

Woo.

[Lounge Fly]

Yes..less old men...like Foley.

[sikkbones]

Yes..less old men...like Foley.

old nose and toothless vs. old floppy tits has been interesting but it's time for the old wrestler's past there prime to go to the retirement home in atlanta... oh ya.. that's right.. WCW closed... where do old wrestler's past there prime go now?

there's always TNA....

[block02]

Ladies and Gentlemen, your new United States Champion

MISTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR




KENNEDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY






KENNEDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[Nebuchanezzar]

Has anyone read that crap about Angle going to TNA, and Vince forcefully firing Angle? Sounds like a complete load of crap to me.

ECW was broadcast on Australian TV for the first time today. Wasn't bad, wasn't great though either. I preferred RAW this week.

[Lounge Fly]

Ladies and Gentlemen, your new United States Champion

MISTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR




KENNEDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY






KENNEDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Am i the only one who thinks Kennedy looks as old as leather face Hogan?

[Nebuchanezzar]

Yes

[bauer]

Lounge Fly and Sikkbones constantly bash wrestling legends in this thread. This angers me.

[Lounge Fly]

Lounge Fly and Sikkbones constantly bash wrestling legends in this thread. This angers me.

Just because i dont suck the WW's co&? all the time, doest make me any less of a wrestling fan than you.

[bauer]

Just because i dont suck the WW's co&? all the time, doest make me any less of a wrestling fan than you.
Just less of a person.

[Voodoo Monkey]

As long as they're not bashing mid-90s WWF midcarders. Henry O. Godwinn FTW.

[Imperciph]

Why bash athletes whose contributions to wrestling are practically invaluable? And it is quite illogical to bash them for not being entertaining enough because for the last few months they have been the ones cutting the most interesting promos and putting on livelier in-ring performances. It certainly does not make anyone else any less of a wrestling fan, but it does make one's opinion a questionable and baffling one.

[Lounge Fly]

Why bash athletes whose contributions to wrestling are practically invaluable? And it is quite illogical to bash them for not being entertaining enough because for the last few months they have been the ones cutting the most interesting promos and putting on livelier in-ring performances. It certainly does not make anyone else any less of a wrestling fan, but it does make one's opinion a questionable and baffling one.


Its only marks such as yourself who find their promos/performances interesting. Otherwise it is hurting ratings & more & more wrestling fans are switching off, even die hards. It is also the WW's failure to build new stars which of course, means they have to rely on old stars to try give the ratings a bump.

Who wants to see a geriatric Ric Flair with his man breasts going through the same routine, or a tame & balding HBK opposed to when they were in their prime?

[Dr. Horrible]

As long as they're not bashing mid-90s WWF midcarders. Henry O. Godwinn FTW.

The Goon for World Champion!

[Imperciph]

Its only marks such as yourself who find their promos/performances interesting. Otherwise it is hurting ratings & more & more wrestling fans are switching off, even die hards. It is also the WW's failure to build new stars which of course, means they have to rely on old stars to try give the ratings a bump.

Who wants to see a geriatric Ric Flair with his man breasts going through the same routine, or a tame & balding HBK opposed to when they were in their prime?

Stop making pointless assumptions becuase I am not impressionable to be a mark. I don't even watch wrestling regularly for the last 3 or 4 years, only tuning in when certain entertaining storylines or fueds come up because overall it's quality is too lacking for me to devote time to it.

But you seemed to have missed the point of my post which mainly said there isn't any current storyline which actually is entertaining apart from the Foley/Flair fued. DX vs. Mcmahons is but a piss-poor attempt to recreate the original one. Booker's King Booker gimmick is complete and utter crap and Batista botches moves moves left and right. WWE has used Eddie's death to such disgraceful extents that it is just pathetic and disgusting. They are trying to make Edge/Cena work but something's still not right. Putting Orton in a boring as hell fued where his outcome was clear from the begining was crap too. ECW may have worked if Heyman was given complete creative control and it didn't reek of Mcmahon all the way. So, in comparison to all these shitty storylines and uninteresting fueds it was refreshing to see a fued where the buildup was well-done and backed up by good in-ring performances.

[sikkbones]

Just because i dont suck the WW's co&? all the time, doest make me any less of a wrestling fan than you.


i watched smackdown for the firsttime in a long while last night... not a legend to be seen.. unless you count booker T as world champion 9like that would have been beliveable on raw).. and Finlay... who's best years are behind him... the man should wrestling falls count anywhere matches with lord steven regal not jobbing to mr. kennercrap.... at what the hell is with the new pitbulls? i mean if your gonna rip off ecw at least do it on the (fake) ecw show and use belivable wrestlers... i'm waiting for the smackdown version of the blue world order next....

[Dr. Horrible]

can we please ban sikkbones from this thread?

[sikkbones]

can we please ban sikkbones from this thread?
you have a problem with my opinion?

next i'll have to say something about john cena moving back to smackdown because of promotion for his crap movie... i seen it once already... back in the day.. we called it commando.

[block02]

you have a problem with my opinion?

Yes. It sucks.

[Dr. Horrible]

Okay, first off opinions are better formed when they are not only spelled and punctuated roperly, but also are based upon facts and not someone's personal prejudices. Sceondly, the Flair/Foley feud was anice old school fued and kept Raw going for a little bit there. The promos were dynamite, and their I Quit match at Summerslam was excellent. The only reason you can't seem to realize that is because you are in fact, an idiot and wouldn't recognize a good feud if it hit you in the face. Also the Shawn Michaels bashing makes no sense, Shawn still has better in ring work and ring psychology than half the guys on the roster today, he will go down as one of the best in this industry so if he wants to do the flying elbow at 50 and still looks good doing it, then by all means fly HBK, fly. As for WWE not building new stars, let's take a look at the champions and number one contender's shall we?

Raw: WWE Champ is Edge and number one contender is Cena...now correct me if I'm wrong but these two guys could very well be the future of the business, but maybe WWE just pushes the old guys.
IC Champ is Johnny Nitro and number one contender is Jeff Hardy....hmmm now both of these guys are under 30, and Nitro was one of the very few bright spots from the Tough Enough series...but maybe WWE just pushes the older guys.
Tag Team Champions are the Spirit Squad and number one contender's are the Highlanders, now the Spirit Squad are five of the youngest and most athletic guys that were in OVW and they seem to work well together with Highlanders, also men in their 20s with a fun gimmick...but then again maybe WWE just pushes the older guys.
The Women's Division is full of young athletically gifted women, and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see Moolah anywhere near that title.
As far as Smackdown goes, I guess the same can be said can't it?
Booker may be the World champion, but he has been one of the most entertaining parts of Smackdown since Eddie passed on, and he deserves this run at the top...as far as Big Dave botching some moves, it could be a double edged sword, Booker and Dave don't like each other and it is possible for Booker to dead weight himself to make it much harder for a guy who's already had a 20 minute match to lift him up over his head, but Batista still gets some loud pops and I'm sure they will work out their issues
Now the U.S. Champ is Ken Kennedy who is one of the brightest young stars on Smackdown and Lashley isn't too far behind him...Regal and Finlay are also in there, but they are tow of the most put together workers on the entire WWE roster and can make anyone have a good match
The tag champs are the Hooligans London and Kendrick, these guys are young and athletically amazing and they have had a good run at the top thus far, Kash and Noble as the Pitbulls I think is a good gimmick for them, as at least it gives them something of a gimmick and they are both extremely talented and have put on some killer matches. Also the new team of Idol Stevens and KC James also has a lot of bright spots as they seem to be able to keep up with the other two teams and that is saying something after just being called up, but then again maybe WWE just pushes the younger guys.
The cruiserweight champ Gregory Helms is also a very talented young guy and his upcoming feud with Matt should be excellent as these guys know each other very well for many years.

So maybe you don't like the WWE's current product, that's fine you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't discount the natural abilities of guys who bust their asses in the ring and you can't deny facts. So if you don't like it, don't watch it...but don't pretend to know what you are talking about.

[sikkbones]

wait... i can't bash the guy who lost his smile and gave up a title belt because of politics?

[block02]

wait... i can't bash the guy who lost his smile and gave up a title belt because of politics?

9 years ago. Get over it.

[Dr. Horrible]

and unless you work behind the scenes at wwe...which i severly doubt given your lack of any knowledge of wrestling...you would know that shawn had a very bad injury that doctors were surprised he was able to walk with it...so yeah shawn bashing isn't really allowed

[Nebuchanezzar]

Nah, don't ban sikkbones. An angry young man he may be, but he does bring conversation into this otherwise (usually) dead thread.

But you seemed to have missed the point of my post which mainly said there isn't any current storyline which actually is entertaining apart from the Foley/Flair fued. DX vs. Mcmahons is but a piss-poor attempt to recreate the original one. Booker's King Booker gimmick is complete and utter crap and Batista botches moves moves left and right. WWE has used Eddie's death to such disgraceful extents that it is just pathetic and disgusting. They are trying to make Edge/Cena work but something's still not right. Putting Orton in a boring as hell fued where his outcome was clear from the begining was crap too. ECW may have worked if Heyman was given complete creative control and it didn't reek of Mcmahon all the way. So, in comparison to all these shitty storylines and uninteresting fueds it was refreshing to see a fued where the buildup was well-done and backed up by good in-ring performances.

I dunno if I agree with the DX angle being a poor attempt at the original. It is a recreation of the original (duh), but it's entirely different this time. The fans were crying out for the original DX, but they got something different. They've gone the way of completely swapping the roles of HBK and HHH, putting them as faces instead of obnoxious heels and further introducing the idea of HBK as the straight man. It's quite different from the original, and it's working quite well.

I also like what Edge and Cena are doing. They have great chemistry together, they really do create the feeling of hatred between them and their matches are usually exciting, due to an overwhelming feeling of hatred for one of the competitors. I'm yet to see anyone who wouldn't mind if either one, it's definately a one sided affair, and it makes for great TV. They haven't quite got to the level that Angle and Cena had late last year though, which is a pity.

[Voodoo Monkey]

Casual fans, seeing wrestling while flipping through the channels, would be much more likely to stay on that channel if they saw someone they recognized from the past (like Flair or Foley) than somebody who, while they might be a star, is newer on the scene (like Batista or Cena).

[Lounge Fly]

According to TVRatingsUSA.com, last night's edition of WW SmackDown! on UPN took record low ratings last night in the fast nationals. They are reporting that UPN took a 1.9/3 rating with a 1.0 18-49 demographic rating.

..more categoric proof SD should be cancelled

[camelenchilada]

I rarely watch Smackdown anymore...if I find time to watch WWE, it's usually Raw. SD has just gotten incredibly boring and desperate to me and I have found better things to do on Friday nights than watch "King Booker".

[Voodoo Monkey]

No, that would be proof that when a program airs on a long weekend, is pre-empted in many major markets, and is on a network that won't even exist in another couple weeks, it'll get low ratings.

[Jeremy]

SD won't be cancelled, and if it was, we'd lose the one WWE show that consistently has good-to-great wrestling matches on a weekly basis. The show is in a holding pattern until it hits the CW Network, much like how Impact was on one between the FSN and Spike TV deals.

[Lounge Fly]

SD won't be cancelled, and if it was, we'd lose the one WWE show that consistently has good-to-great wrestling matches on a weekly basis. The show is in a holding pattern until it hits the CW Network, much like how Impact was on one between the FSN and Spike TV deals.


That show has been on life support for fuck knows how long & all you can do is defend it rather than campaign for a better quality product. Blind, ignorant, WW marks..

[Nebuchanezzar]

45 warning points? Damn. See you when you get back Lounge Fly.

I'd hate to say it, but if it's pulling in such abysmal ratings, it shouldn't be on the air. Bring em all home to RAW baby.

[Voodoo Monkey]

Thing is, SD's ratings aren't that bad by UPN standards.

[Dr Zaius]

SD is disgusting me more and more with the Vicky Guerrero "angle", but I don't think it should be cancelled.

[Jeremy]

Campaign for a better quality product? SD puts on a better WRESTLING product on a weekly basis than anything else in WE. It might not have many compelling storylines beyond another hideous exploitation of Eddie, but it is a damn fine wrestling show. When it isn't pre-empted in major markets, the ratings are on par with the WWE cable shows, and it's important to note that ratings are gauged differently between cable and broadcast networks. Calling me a blind, ignorant WWE mark is simply uncalled for and smacks of elitism.

[sikkbones]

and unless you work behind the scenes at wwe...which i severly doubt given your lack of any knowledge of wrestling...you would know that shawn had a very bad injury that doctors were surprised he was able to walk with it...so yeah shawn bashing isn't really allowed


wasn't that his retirement a year later at wrestlemania 14?
i'm talking about when he lost his smile and had a (supposed) knee injury to get out of jobbing the title back to burticus hurticus at WM 13.

That show has been on life support for fuck knows how long & all you can do is defend it rather than campaign for a better quality product. Blind, ignorant, WW marks..


it could be worse... it could be the new ECW.

[Dr. Horrible]

wasn't that his retirement a year later at wrestlemania 14?
i'm talking about when he lost his smile and had a (supposed) knee injury to get out of jobbing the title back to burticus hurticus at WM 13.


you really are an idiot....shawn was basically wrestling with a torn acl and had to take time off, people like you are just anti-shawn and think everything is done because of backstage poloticking....are you canadian or something?

[sikkbones]

you really are an idiot....shawn was basically wrestling with a torn acl and had to take time off, people like you are just anti-shawn and think everything is done because of backstage poloticking....are you canadian or something?


yup... but i don't like burticus hurticus either.

[block02]

For those who don't know, Smackdown airs at regular time on WB tonight.

[Dr. Horrible]

......only in some regions

[Nebuchanezzar]

I haven't watched Smackdown in like...a month. Actually, I don't watch full episodes of RAW these days either. Only the last hour.

ECW this week was ok I guess. I wasn't a big fan of that match taking up the first 20 mins, but it was entertaining enough.

[bauer]

Oh shit, Unforgiven was on tonight. Did Shane O Mac take a header off the cell, or what?

[Dr. Horrible]

no but vince kissed shows ass and i gained a new respect for cena

[bauer]

Give us a run down, dammit.

[Nebuchanezzar]

"The champ is back" - WWE.com

"Still, even with everything stacked against him – lack of experience, hostile Canadian crowd, RAW career on the line – Cena turned it up a notch and rose to the occasion. Both men left their heart and soul in the Air Canada Centre, but when all was said and done, it was John Cena left standing tall with the gold." - WWE.com

:DNS:

Dear lord no. Don't accuse me of being a blind Cena hater, I just find him boring. I know what last hour of RAW I won't be watching these days. Tell us though, did Edge carry the match?

[Dr Zaius]

You might say. But Cena took his share of bumps.

The two big matches were pretty good.

[Dr. Horrible]

i not only thought it was worth the 40 bucks, i thought it was one of the best single brand ppvs ive seen in a long time

hardy vs nitro told a great story, the two men started chain wrestling with both guys showing off some good mat skills and then they took to the air and the finish worked in perfectly with the story they have goin

kane vs umaga was a decent contest, nice big guy back and forth stuff, the ending was shitty and killed the crowd for a bit but i can see why they did it...maybe a big spot with a chokeslam off the stage or something could have capped it off better

highlander vs spirit squad was awesome, it felt like a late 80s early 90s tag match, lots of double teams, told the story well, and the squad actually pulled the demolition move

dx vs show and mcmahons

wow...i was expecting shit, and ill be honest it was excellent, everyone involved busted their asses, the story worked very well with trips and hbk taking out show first then workin on vinnie and shaneo, it was really good back and forth, and the kiss big shows ass spot was disturbing but funny, shane sold really well as they wheeled him out.....god i hope this doesnt leave to the nwo

i swear i think ive seen jsut about every match trish and lits have had together...and this one was the best, lita busted her ass to help give trish a proper sendoff, and damn was it well done, right up there with the trish/mickey match from wm22.....sharpshooter drew a general markout from me and my friend

lito vs randy....they had a very good match, it's not the end of their fued it would seem and no blown spots from randy, although he did have his rest holds...nice finish though

cena vs edge....wow, this was the best way to blow off their big feud, they both took some huge bumps, i have tons of respect for cena...i honestly didnt think he would take a big bump off the ladder, but he took the matt hardy bump...the stfu with the ladder in ebtween was damn scik looking, and an fu to the ladder onto edge was very innovative....and my god the fu off the top of the ladders...jesus..

i give the ppv an overall 8.5 / 10 all the matvhes were given a great length of time and were able to tell a full story, if wwe turns out the rest of this years ppvs like this...i may buy all of them

[Nebuchanezzar]

It's pretty cool that this was such a good PPV then. There didn't seem to be a whole lot of hype going into it, but this one already seems better than Summerslam by the sounds of it.

[block02]

Sounds like it was a solid show....how bad was Cena booed? I read that Toronto's reaction was nearly on One Night Stand II's level and that Cena clearly did not want to win the match. Can anyone vouch for that?

[bauer]

Mikel, how'd Shane get so fucked up, or was he just acting?

[Dr. Horrible]

acting but it did look good

chair around the throat of shane elbow drop onto chair...cue shane coughing up blood

[Dr Zaius]

It doesn't look like it hurts that much. I really don't think it does.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I watched a bit of RAW today. Words cannot describe how weird it looked to see the Montreal crowd cheering for HBK.

[bauer]

I watched a bit of RAW today. Words cannot describe how weird it looked to see the Montreal crowd cheering for HBK.
Hahahaha, I thought the same thing.

I honestly want to watch Unforgiven for the TLC and Hell in the Cell matches. Has anyone seen a torrent?

[Dr. Horrible]

i can check my wrestling foryums for ya gravy, but if u decide im not ambitious enough wrestlepower.net usually gets tons of shit in

[Nebuchanezzar]

With no TNA thread, there's nowhere else to say this, but HOLY CRAP!

www.tnawrestling.com

^spoiler

I never expected it

[bauer]

What a fucking asshole.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Well, if anything, it may increase the WWE's will to put something new out there, and take drastic action to beat the competition. After all, last time the WWE went into hyper creative mode was after Nash & Hall defected to WCW. Ignore the fact that it occured about 2 years later for now though.

[thecapecoddah]

isn't angle still pretty banged up? hate to say it, but he might die in the ring one day...


DX to run the gauntlet tonight :bang:

[Dr. Horrible]

dx running a gauntlet plus a womens titlre tournament stasrting....this should rawk

[Dr Zaius]

Wow. Angle in TNA. That's the most surprising move in wrestling this year.

[Jeremy]

Angle is a physical and mental wreck right now, and he wants to do MMA on top of TNA. He is no condition to compete right now, but he really hasn't been for a long time and that hasn't stopped him. He's in such bad shape that he had to be wheelchaired around an airport when he suddenly lost all feeling in his legs, and he also needed handlers to get him to and from arenas because he couldn't remember where he was going.

Due to his insane devotion to wrestling, he's lost his wife, child, and everything he held dear. He now has nothing left to lose but his life, and judging by his refusal to accept WWE's offer for rehab, he doesn't seem to hold that in high regard right now. Angle signing with TNA is the biggest story of the year, but what led up to it is one of the saddest stories ever.

[Nebuchanezzar]

hate to say it, but he might die in the ring one day...

Angle is a physical and mental wreck right now, and he wants to do MMA on top of TNA. He is no condition to compete right now, but he really hasn't been for a long time and that hasn't stopped him. He's in such bad shape that he had to be wheelchaired around an airport when he suddenly lost all feeling in his legs, and he also needed handlers to get him to and from arenas because he couldn't remember where he was going.

Due to his insane devotion to wrestling, he's lost his wife, child, and everything he held dear. He now has nothing left to lose but his life, and judging by his refusal to accept WWE's offer for rehab, he doesn't seem to hold that in high regard right now. Angle signing with TNA is the biggest story of the year, but what led up to it is one of the saddest stories ever.

Have we ever considered that perhaps these are all gross exaggerations?

[Larson Something]

I'm not surprised at all that Angle went to TNA. His mindset is to keep climbing through those ropes no matter what obstacles are thrown in front of him. There was no better example than three years ago when he had that shortcut neck operation so he could do Mania. I think Kurt saw his firing not as an opportunitiy to get himself right, but as just another obstacle. And going to TNA is a way to stick it to Vince for putting up that obstacle. I'm sure Vince never saw it coming, though. He's still got blinders on when it comes to TNA; he might have thought there was an outside chance Kurt would go to Japan, but I think in his heart of hearts, he figured Kurt would be the obedient soldier, heal himself up mentally and physically, then come right back to WWE.

I think if he has to keep working, TNA is the best place for him, because of the lighter schedule. And it should help the ratings, at least at first. But how much of that positive impact (heh) might be undone by the fact that they're also bringing back Vince Russo?

[Jeremy]

Have we ever considered that perhaps these are all gross exaggerations?
Given the reputable sources who have said these things (including Angle himself in some instances), I've never doubted them. I didn't even mention all of his issues.

He can't hair out of one ear (confirmed by Angle in an interview), he's got extensive facial nerve damage (again, confirmed by Angle), he needs painkillers to sleep (confirmed by Angle), he can't feel his hands (confirmed by Angle), he dropped RVD on his head and then blamed RVD for it (confirmed by the Observer), sent friends and co-workers bizarre e-mails, a behavior that reminded some of Brian Pillman's actions when he was addicted to painkillers before his death (confirmed by the Observer).

The man needs professional help, and TNA, a company that had Erik Watts work a PPV match mere days after a drug overdose, isn't the one to provide it. Hell, if WWE couldn't get him the help he needed with their basically unlimited resources, TNA can't. There's a good read on the Torch site about this subject here - http://www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_17942.shtml

[Nebuchanezzar]

Oh come on, confirmed by the observer? You're speaking as if when something is written on the internet, it automatically becomes fact. Nothing can be confirmed unless it comes out of Angle, and even then, you're listing these trivial matters as if Kurt's on death watch (remember that one?) or something. It's not a matter of imminent death if Angle still can't hear out of one ear because of a fluid build up he's had since his amateur career, or if he can't feel his hands. I can't feel my pinky finger occasionally, but it's nothing to worry about. Angle's an older athlete, so he's going to have things a bit worse. If he was getting constant headaches, having heart pains or vomiting blood, then there'd be a problem. As it stands, he has a few minor niggles and what looks to be a recovering pain killer addiction.

I hardly think that sitting at home watching TV is going to be beneficial for Angle, a person who confessed in his autobiography that he simply can't sit down and do nothing. If anything, being in TNA will rejuvinate his wrestling career and give him some spice into an industry which he's probably becoming a tad disgruntled in (after his latest world title reign, and being shipped to ECW). He'll still be in pain, but as Foley said in his autobiography, people like him will be in pain for the rest of their lives, no matter what happens. It's better to be up and doing something rather than sitting at home, growing fat and getting a larger dependancy on pain killers.

I'm impartial to Angle going to TNA btw. If he wanted it, and if he believes it's for the better, then so be it. It's probably not fair if he lied to Vince or something like that just so he could leave though. Especially considering how much he owes to the WWE.

[Jeremy]

The Observer isn't just a website, it's a newsletter, and Meltzer is one of the most respected journalists in wrestling. If you just want to trust what TNA and Angle (or any company/wrestler combo) say about something, then you're missing out on a lot of information, because it isn't in their best interests to reveal it all. With Angle, you're definitely not going to get the whole story, because he's delusional, and TNA certainly won't tell everything because this is the biggest signing in their history.

Angle actually responded to the death watch even though it was a blind item in the Torch, which basically confirmed to many that the blurb was about him. A few MINOR niggles? The man LOST ALL FEELING IN HIS LEGS, lost all of the hearing in one ear forever, can't feel his hands, and is in constant pain - his problems go far beyond a few small ones, and his family also has a history of heart problems, which he will most likely have had anyway due to steroids, HGH, and/or whatever other chemicals he's pumped into his body to keep himself going.

He doesn't have a recovering pain killer addiction, he just has an addiction - he was offered a chance at recovery by WWE and refused it. You're right though - sitting at home watching TV isn't what Kurt needs - a stint in rehab is though. My hope is that he ends up getting the help he needs during his time in TNA, but given the drug problems in that locker room, I doubt that will happen.

People aren't just scared about Angle's life ending because it'll be newsworthy - people actually care about this man's well-being, and it's hard to watch something destroy themselves so completely in front of our very eyes on national TV. At least TNA can count on him to pop ratings and buyrates for a little while - assuming he lives long enough to make his official debut.

That might sound cryptic, but given that Eddie Guerrero died the morning of his next world title win, it's certainly possible - especially given how much pressure Kurt will be under to wrestle in TNA, and how many health problems he has already. I want to see Angle make a successful debut, have a legendary run in TNA, see him lead them to higher ratings, and then read that he's gotten his life completely back on track and his seeking help for his emotional and substance abuse issues.

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. A scenario involving him dying either before or after a match is more realistic, and it would appear that Kurt wants it that way. It seems like he wants to die in a wrestling ring doing what he loves, and while there is some nobility in that, it doesn't make up for two children growing up without a father, and a widow left to care for two kids due to her husband's refusal to seek help and take the proper care of his body.

[Nebuchanezzar]

The Observer isn't just a website, it's a newsletter, and Meltzer is one of the most respected journalists in wrestling. If you just want to trust what TNA and Angle (or any company/wrestler combo) say about something, then you're missing out on a lot of information, because it isn't in their best interests to reveal it all. With Angle, you're definitely not going to get the whole story, because he's delusional, and TNA certainly won't tell everything because this is the biggest signing in their history.

Angle actually responded to the death watch even though it was a blind item in the Torch, which basically confirmed to many that the blurb was about him. A few MINOR niggles? The man LOST ALL FEELING IN HIS LEGS, lost all of the hearing in one ear forever, can't feel his hands, and is in constant pain - his problems go far beyond a few small ones, and his family also has a history of heart problems, which he will most likely have had anyway due to steroids, HGH, and/or whatever other chemicals he's pumped into his body to keep himself going.

I know who Meltzer is, but he's still an unreliable source. Read any book by a wrestler, listen to any interview with a wrestler and they'll say just how unreliable he is. That's not to say he's full of crap. He's not, but he's less reliable than the wrestlers themselves. If Kurt Angle was in some kind of major health trouble, then I'd take the word of Kurt Angle to be gospel compared to that of Meltzer. This isn't some kind of situation where it's going to harm the company if they let information slip, it's a health issue. The WWE had made a giant issue over these health issues since November, so if Angle were in any kind of major trouble we would have heard more of it than a few rumours of being on death watch (of all things). When Angle was released, if he was released (or suspended) for something that's as big as you're making it out to be, we would have heard about it. Back to Meltzer once again, he's not the most reliable guy on earth but if Angle was released for being almost DEAD, then Meltzer would have got some sort of sniff of it. He didn't, and no-one else has made such a wild claim. If Angle was almost dead, you can bet your ass that the WWE would have sent him to a rehab center rather than releasing him.

You don't know what you're talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, and a few rumours and criss-crossing of news stories isn't enough to make me believe that Angle is next to death.

[Jeremy]

Meltzer is respected by many wrestlers - Angle included. In fact, Meltzer said that he talked to Angle recently on the Observer Live radio show. Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Mick Foley, and Terry Funk also like Meltzer's work. Hogan is just about the most vocal person against it, and Ole Anderson doesn't like him, but Ole doesn't seem to like anything these days. Meltzer's word isn't gospel, but it can be trusted, and I'd certainly trust a reputable reporter's word about this issue than someone who is constantly under the influence of painkillers like Angle. WWE has been inconsistent about the wellness policy since instituting it in November.

They recently reworded the policy to say that if someone violated it (like Orton and Mahoney), they would be "suspended", but that just means they'll work shows without pay. So they're still endangering the lives of guys with problems, and they aren't getting them treatment when they may need it most so it won't interfere with their storylines. As for WWE not wanting information to slip out due to a health issue - they were pissed off that Khali's liver problems were leaked to the public before the Bash, since they were still advertising him for the show.

Angle was released for not wanting to receive drug treatment - this has been reported by multiple newsletters, not just Meltzer's. WWE felt that Angle was in such bad shape that they had no choice but to release him, since he refused all of their attempts to get him help. WWE actually tried to do the right thing for once with a health situaton, and Angle didn't want their help. He thinks he's fine to wrestle, and he thinks he knows the limits of his body. The problem is that he certainly doesn't know his physical limits, or he wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

Here's one of many quotes from the Death Valley Driver Review Board thread that sum this situation up - http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.php?showtopic=25596&st=0

At least with Eddie you kind of didn't know anything was wrong. This is far worse, because I can kind of feel the "Check the Observer site" MSN coming.

Since I've got it handy, here are some 9/4 Observer quotes about Angle - In a move that took many by surprise, but in truth, seemed an
inevitability, the wrestling career of Kurt Angle, at least as it
pertains to World Wrestling Entertainment, may be over.
Angle, 37, was fired on 8/25 over a series of issues, from fears he was
destroying himself, to erratic behavior. While many will simplify this
and say it was over problems with pain killers, or issues with
management, the story is far more complex than that, and the decision was
hardly spur of the moment.
At times considered almost the company's prized employee, Angle's drive
to be the best went beyond all realms of what many would consider sanity.
This dates back to high school, if not earlier.

He won his first world championship in 1995. He was a machine, not a
human being, when training for the Olympics, did a routine that went far
beyond what any expert would call overtraining. He trained eight or nine
hours a day. No matter what he was doing to recover from this
overtraining, the effect on the deterioration of his joints, his back,
and his knees for later in life had to be enormous. The denial of pain,
or masking of it, to do that kind of a routine is almost mind-boggling.
His leg day included a two-and-a-half minute run up a hill, with added
weight resistance, followed by wind sprints with his training partner on
his back. Then came a six-mile run for endurance. Only then came the
squat workout. At his peak of his strength and conditioning, he did a
routine starting with 149 reps at 135, 73 reps at 225, 44 reps at 315 and
28 reps at 405.
Somehow, it worked for him, as he was the best conditioned 210 pounder in
the world, consistently beating the best of the 240 pounders who
dehydrated themselves to make 220 pounds. During the 1996 national
championships, in a semifinal match against Jason Loukides, he landed on
his head on a throw, suffering two bulged and herniated discs in his
neck, two cracked vertebrae and four pulled muscles. Six hours later, he
beat Kerry McCoy in overtime to win the national championship.
When he got home, there was no question, the Olympics were done. Perhaps
his career was done. When he insisted on wrestling at the Olympic trials,
ten weeks later, he was told he was risking paralysis. He loaded himself
up by injecting mepivacaine in his neck, to kill the pain.

The point of recounting history, particularly the part that everyone
knows, that Angle won a gold medal with a broken neck is that it points
out things about his character and his life. First, many athletes at the
top level are obsessive. It is that personality trait that allows them to
do all the things, whether it be live an unbalanced singular focused
life, and train past the level when even other driven people would quit.
Angle had all that, and two more qualities, that are both good and bad.
He denied injuries. It dated back to the junior nationals, if not before.
Doctors were wrong. Friends were wrong. Coaches were wrong. Recruiters
were wrong. All logic was wrong. Even himself, when he felt the pain that
said it's time to drop out and rest, he was also wrong. The only thing
that was right was that he had to win, and somehow, when the chips were
down, he always did. In the end, it always seemed worth the cost. The bad
ankle and bad knees got better, but the national, world and Olympic
championships are in the record book forever.

Both pain and pain medication have been a fact of life for Angle, long
before he was in pro wrestling. When he first started wrestling, his
wife, Karen, noted that she thought some day he would be in a wheelchair,
because he'd never stop. At the time, it was like, jeez, a wheelchair,
isn't that being dramatic. For all the crazy demands wrestlers put on
their body, the only top names who ended up in a wheelchair were
Hayabusa, and that was due to one bad fall on his head, Darren Drosdov,
from a similar freak accident, and the Dynamite Kid, who abused his body
constantly both in and out of the ring. Clearly, she knew something
nobody else did about the injuries he already had, and the mentality he
also had that was even more dangerous.
In 2003, just before Wrestlemania, Angle started getting numbness in his
left hand, and lost a great deal of strength, from two herniated discs
that put pressure on his spinal cord. He admitted publicly to needing
Valium just to sleep. He was booked to lose the title to Brock Lesnar in
a match where he would do nothing, and then take a year off for neck
fusion surgery. Instead, against the wishes of every doctor who saw him,
he asked Vince McMahon if he could do the main event at Wrestlemania, and
worked the match like he was 100% healthy, and when the match was over,
backstage, went into shock. Considering his injuries, he put on something
well beyond either an incredible, or a sane performance. Against the
advice of all other doctors, he didn't get his neck fused, but instead
opted for a new minimally invasive surgery that got him back into the
ring within a few months. But that just led to more and more injuries,
and more and more pain.
Through all of this insanity, he had become the only man who ever walked
the Earth to earn the title of the greatest amateur wrestler in the world
in his weight class and was the consensus pick among his peers in 2002
and 2003 as the single greatest wrestler in the world. Some who have
blinders on regarding only one way is the right way may argue that he was
never that good of a pro, but if you talk to people like The Rock, Ric
Flair, Steve Austin, and right no down the list of the most experienced
guys in the company, and the guys he was in the ring with during those
years, to the agents and the front office, most privately rated him as
being the best performer in the business (publicly you weren't supposed
to say that, although many did anyway). But that wasn't good enough. He
wanted to be considered the all-time best, and that meant longevity.

No matter how severe his long list of injuries were, which included loss
of hearing in one ear and nerve damage in his face, and what he was doing
to cope with them, somehow, in the ring, he was still one of the top
performers in the company. Until recent months, he was still routinely
having good-to-great matches whenever he was put on television and given
time.
But the injuries and his mentality may not have been his biggest problem.
There is a chicken-and-egg question here. Of late, Angle has become a
complete mess. His wife, who is a few months pregnant with a son, left
him, taking his daughter, who is three. Did he go over the edge, and
cause his wife to finally leave him for a second time. Or did she leave
him, sending him over the edge? And there is a lot more to that than
meets the eye.
One of his best friends in the company noted that unlike most people who
are in their late 30s, Angle has never had to deal with failure. He'd had
to deal with heartache and tragedies, but never personal failure. His
life has been a series of being told that he couldn't do something, and
always doing it. He dealt with deaths of loved ones and it only made him
physically stronger. He dealt with injuries. Somehow, they only made him
mentally tougher. His marriage, from the start, had not been
smooth-sailing, and the pressure of the wrestling business and being on
the road never makes things easier. While he and his wife broke up
before, at that time he had his other outlet, his work, and they did get
back together. For the first time, in his marriage, he was dealing with
failing at something he really wanted, at a time when his body, which
carried him to all his triumphs, was falling apart in ways that were
getting harder to mask and perhaps impossible to fix. Plus, he had the
pressure of being the "go-to" guy in his family, the one who was
successful, and made a great living, as his $1 million downside guarantee
made him the company's fourth highest paid performer after Undertaker,
HHH and John Cena (even with Big Show, although Shawn Michaels would not
have surpassed him). If family members needed money, or were between
jobs, there was always Kurt. As bad as wrestling with all the injuries
was, it was more stressful when he came home from tours.
There was a word that one person after another gave me after Angle was
fired. The word was "unavoidable."

Like a sports star when he announces his retirement, the story that the
decision for the release was Angle's was a way for him to publicly save
face. But it was not the truth.
As far as within wrestling, while his issues with pain killers date back
to 1996, if not earlier, others have traced huge problems back to around
this year's Wrestlemania.
"There has been a drastic personality change in him over the past few
months," noted one friend.

After losing the Smackdown title at Wrestlemania in a three-way, he was
constantly trying to push to get the title back. His move to ECW was sold
on him because he could do the shooter gimmick, which many believe he
should have done for years, Paul Heyman knew how to book it from the Tazz
days, and it would protect his body at least somewhat. He wasn't
scheduled on the Vengeance PPV after beating Randy Orton on ECW
television. He convinced Brian Gewirtz to get him on the show, and he was
scheduled to win the match. However, when he failed a drug test
(ironically, not for pain killers, or he'd have been put into rehab
instead of suspended for 30 days, as whatever he was using, he had valid
prescriptions for except the drug he was popped for, and that failure was
only because his prescription had run out and Dr. David Black, who headed
the drug program, flagged him for the violation), they had him do two
jobs before starting his suspension. Ironically, today, with the recent
policy change when it comes to test failures, he'd have simply kept
wrestling and just been docked pay. He got a stern warning from Vince
McMahon, at which point everything started unraveling.
He was said to be exactly like Brian Pillman of 1996-97, constantly
calling, e-mailing, and text messaging people, from Vince to Kevin Dunn
to John Laurinatis and several of the wrestlers and others he's close
with, one person saying he estimated 15 or 20 times a day, half the time
the messages made no sense, while other times he was completely
clear-headed.
When he was suspended, there was a significant feeling that he needed
help and shouldn't be brought back. However, with ECW so lacking in
depth, when the 30 days were up, he was brought immediately back.
Privately, many were strongly against that decision.
When he came back, much of the ECW locker room turned on him because he
became impossible. When he accidentally dropped Rob Van Dam on his head,
in the back, he allegedly told an agent it was Van Dam's fault, and the
word got around.
He was seemingly furious he wasn't booked on SummerSlam. He was
constantly lobbying with everyone with power to get on the show. The
effort worked, as Vince made the decision to put him on the show,
changing the planned Big Show vs. Sabu ECW title match to a four-way,
which would have included Van Dam and Angle. The scheduled ladder match
on 8/15 was booked first for Big Show to take the contract, only to find
out by doing so, all three would be challengers. Then it was changed to
where Sabu would win the ladder match, and SummerSlam would be a
three-way. The scenario planned was for Angle to show up before the Show
vs. Sabu match, and challenge the winner, and end up being added to the
match. Angle was pushing hard to get the title in that match.
Angle's self destruction in the locker room was becoming impossible to
hide, and several wrestlers went to the office about it. There was yet
another incident with Van Dam based on something that Angle said in the
ring. But somehow, Angle was always able to perform in the ring.
He suffered the groin injury on 8/13 in White Plains. He came to
television two days later, and wanted to work, denying the severity of
the injury. Vince told him that he was hurt, and that he was being pulled
from SummerSlam, and they did the angle where Paul Heyman pulled him from
the ladder match, and he later got in a backstage confrontation vignette
with Heyman, Big Show and the helmeted Bashams.
On 8/21, the day before the taping in Wilkes-Barre, PA, he called
Laurinaitis and told him that his legs were numb and he was being wheeled
through the airport, and claimed his sports massage therapist told him he
had torn an abdominal muscle. That was said to be the real eye opener for
Vince, who ordered Laurinaitis to set up an MRI for him, and that is
apparently also when the decision was made to fire him.
A meeting was scheduled for 8/25 at Titan Towers with McMahon,
Laurinaitis, Angle, and his personal manager, former pro bodybuilder Dave
Hawk. They discussed how to handle the situation and the company paid
Angle a sum of money and released him from the rest of his contract.

He claimed to have suffered not only the
groin injury in the White Plains match, but also a hamstring injury and
the torn abdominal muscle. On the WWE web site, Angle categorized it as
his decision to leave (the web site itself categorized it as a mutual
decision) because he no longer wanted to use pain medication to continue
to perform and needed time off. The story left the obvious question
because WWE is a company with a history of sending many people, both
wrestlers and employees, to rehab, for either pain killer or recreational
drug issues, as opposed to firing them. They have, at least with Tammy
Sytch and Jeff Hardy many years ago, fired wrestlers who were told to go
to rehab to save their job and refused. Davey Boy Smith was once sent to
rehab, but left early because his marriage was falling apart, and was not
only brought back, but given a major push anyway (this was during the
period Martha Hart had sued the company over Owen's death and it appeared
they were bending over backwards to keep Smith happy ), but he simply
couldn't be pushed and after the case was settled, he was fired. And of
all the people who the company has sent to rehab, none were as high
profile as Angle, who one would think the company would be only more
receptive to taking care of. The firing can only be explained by the
enormity of the situation.
"The Kurt thing was unavoidable," said another person close to the
situation. "To me, the best case scenario is that he seeks help and is
successful with treatment, then retires. He's in too much pain to ever be
at the level he was, and that will eat him up if he tries to come back."
"WWE would certainly welcome Kurt back with open arms," said Vince
McMahon on the company web site. "I think Kurt has some issues he has to
face, as we all due from time-to-time. We all have our demons, and as
human beings, it is important for us to overcome them and become better
human beings, athletes and business people."

[Voodoo Monkey]

Wow. Thanks for the read, Jeremy.

[Nebuchanezzar]

We'll see who's right when Angle dies in a couple of days then. ;-/ (pray he doesn't)

[Jeremy]

Did you even read the stuff I quoted? No one has said that Angle will be dead in a couple of days, just that's he's headed down a path of a very early demise. After watching Pillman's documentary tonight (on the set that should be required viewing for all wrestling fans), there are a lot of parallels between both men, and there are some quotes in the documentary that fit Angle. It seems like you want to stick your head in the sand and act like Angle is perfectly fine, well, he isn't.

He's admitted that much, and for whatever reason, hasn't admitted himself into a rehab center yet. No one wants Angle to die, but it's a very valid concern that he will. I hope you'll stop trying to get into a petty internet pissing contest and realize that this is about a man's life - which means more than someone being proven right or wrong due to a series of keystrokes.

Here's a quote from Jim Ross on the Pillman DVD that fits Angle in some ways and could suit him later on, and I'll add more as times goes on - "He may have officially died due to a heart attack, but I believe he died from a broken heart because he couldn't do the things he could do, and still wanted to do.".

[Nebuchanezzar]

He's admitted that much, and for whatever reason, hasn't admitted himself into a rehab center yet. No one wants Angle to die, but it's a very valid concern that he will. I hope you'll stop trying to get into a petty internet pissing contest and realize that this is about a man's life - which means more than someone being proven right or wrong due to a series of keystrokes.

o_0

But aren't you the one fueling the "argument" (if you will) here? Aren't you perhaps taking this just a bit too personally ("I hope you'll stop trying to get into a petty internet pissing contest"). I don't want Angle to die, no-one does, and I certainly don't believe this is about some kind of make believe ego found on the internet. I just don't accept a lot of what has been said about Angle in these internet dirtsheets, for the very reasons I specified above. Quite often, they're full of crap. If I have to choose between what a wrestler has said about themselves and what a third party is saying, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to take what the wrestler has to say as fact. The "death watch" crap is a perfect example. This bullshit was reported in one newsletter (Meltzers), and was then dismissed by not only Angle, but a whole other series of insiders as being complete and utter bullocks after the whole IWC made the biggest deal out of it possible. The whole idea is that he (or whoever) was within reach of imminent death. That was simply not true no matter how you look at it. It might not have even been Angle, it might not even be true for anyone! Shouldn't they be dead by now?

The injuries you list that have been admitted by Angle are not life threatening either. They could be an indication of early paralysis if something goes drastically wrong (like landing on his head after a moonsault), but he isn't going to die from that. He's more likely to die from staph infection or some other disease commonly associated with sports injuries, not some lost feeling in his hands, or feeling lost in his leg from a torn muscle.

The only thing in there that worries me at all is the supposed pain killer addiction, but even that could be taken out of context within your little report. Who's to say what he meant when he said that? If we assume he meant every night, then that's something to worry about. He could die from an overdose, or a heart attack. If that was the case, I once again fall back on the idea that the WWE wouldn't have released him into an open field where he could go to somewhere as stupid as MMA or whatever it's called. He was cared about in the WWE, much moreso than you care about him, or I care about him. These people knew him, they wouldn't have just cut him loose and said "piss off" for the sake of a few legal issues, or whatever reason there would have been to release him.

Ignoring everything that's been said, it's all about Angle. If it makes him happy to somehow die from a numb hand in the ring, then so be it. I'm not in any position to deny him from it. He's been like that since he was a kid (read his book), I really doubt it's going to change by...whatever it is you're suggesting.

[Jeremy]

If he's going to die prematurely, it'll probably be from a heart attack. He has a FAMILY HISTORY of heart problems, and the "wrestler lifestyle" of steroids and other heart-destroying activities certainly can't help him. The Observer, Torch, and Figure 4 Weekly aren't "internet dirtsheets" as you call them - they're trade papers. There's a difference between them and the websites that steal and alter their content, then present it as fact. I'm not taking this personally, but when you are responding with rolling eyes at such a serious topic, it's hard to take what you say seriously.

The death watch was NOT reported in Meltzer's newsletter - it was reported in the Torch. I said that before, and it's been known since the beginning that it was in the Torch and not the Observer. Angle responding to it is basically an admission that it was about him - otherwise he'd have no real reason to even mention it. The injuries could be a sign of early paralysis? Again, are you reading everything posted? HE HAS ALREADY BEEN PARALYZED from the waist down.

He admitted to needing painkillers to go to sleep at night - that's about as close to an admission of daily painkiller abuse as you're going to get, and it was even on WWE's "Mania of WrestleMania" documentary. There are a lot of warning signs about Kurt Angle's health known right now, and people have certainly died before with fewer of them.

He's got a family history of heart problems, is active in an industry with a high death rate of men under 45 dying from heart attacks, has suffered a broken neck on multiple occasions, has lost all of the hearing in one ear, has lost the feeling in his hands, has suffered atrophy in his arms due to nerve damage, has suffered extensive facial nerve damage causing him to look much older than he is, and has recently lost ALL FEELING IN HIS LEGS - if you don't think something is seriously wrong when someone is dealing with these kinds of problems, then you're ignoring the obvious. People in WWE do care about him more than I do - that's why at least one person there expressed their fears to Meltzer in the stuff I quoted.

[Nebuchanezzar]

The death watch was NOT reported in Meltzer's newsletter - it was reported in the Torch. I said that before, and it's been known since the beginning that it was in the Torch and not the Observer. Angle responding to it is basically an admission that it was about him - otherwise he'd have no real reason to even mention it. The injuries could be a sign of early paralysis? Again, are you reading everything posted? HE HAS ALREADY BEEN PARALYZED from the waist down.

How the hell is it an admission from him? Everyone was saying it was him on the internet for crying out loud, of course he's going to come out and say that it's not him. I can direct you to a website I frequent, and probably this one too and show you just how popular that opinion was. If someone is having these vicious rumours spread about them, they're going to want to respond, come on!

Do you actually read what you've posted? I'm beggining to doubt that you have. Allow me to fish the quote out for you.

On 8/21, the day before the taping in Wilkes-Barre, PA, he called
Laurinaitis and told him that his legs were numb and he was being wheeled
through the airport, and claimed his sports massage therapist told him he
had torn an abdominal muscle. That was said to be the real eye opener for
Vince, who ordered Laurinaitis to set up an MRI for him, and that is
apparently also when the decision was made to fire him.

Translation: He tore an abdominal muscle! For Christ's sakes, that's what caused the numbness. Have you ever actually torn that muscle? I sure as hell haven't but I've dislocated my knee, and guess what. my leg went numb after a while. Is it too hard to see what's going on here?

The rest of the stuff you've posted is repeated, and there's no point in repeating what I've already said. You take what's written in dirtsheets (which is what they are. Read Mick Foley's first autobiography for some info on Meltzer [he calls his newsletters, dirtsheets]) as gospel, then so be it. I don't, and I don't take a wacky alarmist view on Angle being next to death. Let's move on.

[Jeremy]

Yes, I've read my own posts, and Foley's book stated that some of the wrestlers called newsletters "dirtsheets" - not that he believed they were. If he believed that, he wouldn't have been a repeat guest on Wrestling Observer Live, and praised the newsletter while on it.

I can't imagine Angle's torn abdominal muscle caused him to become paralyzed from the waist down. Making him lose feeling or feel intense pain in his ribcage, back, and stomach area - I'd believe that, but to lose all feeling below the waist... I just don't see a torn abdominal muscle causing that in and of itself.

Again, Meltzer has talked with Angle recently - if any newsletter writer knows what's going on with, it's Meltzer. Is his word gospel? Of course not, but it's the most detailed and realistic account of Angle's plight and he's been right about Angle's issues in the past. Have you actually READ an Observer in full to see how in-depth the coverage is when he tackles an important subject, or are you just going with the blind hatred of newsletters that some people seem to have and simply denying all information from being based on truth because it comes from them?

Multiple sites (and many more people) felt that Angle was the one the Torch was referring to because there was a lot of evidence supporting the statements made there being about him. Angle was doing damage control by quickly denying that the item was about him. It's certainly the smart thing to do when you're tied to a public company, because having a major star (and one whose death would garner more mainstream publicity than Eddie's) admit that he's on any kind of a death watch would make them look bad.

And once again, the death watch thing DID NOT come from the Wrestling Observer. You appear to be focusing way too much on the fact that information is coming from newsletters instead of focusing on the informaton itself.

[Nebuchanezzar]

But that's the primary point! Everything you're saying is based off of your trust of these newsletters. If you don't have that trust (and I'm not alone by any means), then you simply can't take what has been said in them as factual evidence of anything. You're not sitting there backstage with a first hand account of what's happening to Angle, so you go by what's said in these dirtsheets. That's not entirely a bad thing, but I certainly wouldn't base an argument of a wrestler dying a year or two (or a week, whatever) down the track on what's been written by a third party. It's quite hard to argue about any of these points when absolutely none of it is based on hard, 100% fact...unless of course you believe that a torn abdominal muscle is cause for morbid concern, or what's been written by a guy who gets his news off other wrestlers and then might engage in bending of the truth for whatever reason is the rock hard evidence. The unreliability of these dirtsheets is well documented throughout the history of wrestling, it's not something that can be denied. I wouldn't regard the news of an anonymous wrestler being on "death watch" from (as you said) a more unreliable dirtsheet than the Observer, as something that anyone would take likely. As I said, the entire IWC was in the belief that it was Angle (rightly so if the majority of people hold your views). It's only natural for him to come out and say it's not, yet people like you then bend that around to come back and make it look as if Angle went into defensive mode and was determined not to let anyone know he was on deaths door.

As for the torn muscle, I'm no doctor, but I don't have a hard time considering that such a painful injury (which Foley said was his most painful) might have those type of effects. If it's as painful as I've been led to believe, is it a stretch to consider that pain killers might have been given to Angle which hindered his walking, or more likely, he couldn't walk at all? Once again, coming back to my dislocated knee. I lost feeling in my lower leg and had to be wheeled around the hospital in a wheelchair when it happened to me. I imagine that a TORN abdominal muscle with strong pain killers might do a bit worse.

[Jeremy]

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this matter. I'm putting trust in newsletters because they're usually correct about health assessments. J.R. also expressed fear over Angle in his blog, but wished him the best in TNA. If he doesn't do MMA on top of TNA, I think Angle, with a modified style and proper health care, could end up being fine to wrestle. His quality of life will keep deteiorating though, but there's no way around that happening with his drive.

WWE released Kid Kash today for having a bad attitude. He was released by TNA for the same thing, and I'm surprised he lasted this long and was pushed as much as he was. It's a shame the Pillbulls couldn't hold the tag belts, but hopefully they do something with Noble after this. He's an incredible talent, and has been largely wasted outside of this tag team since returning.

[bauer]

Nerd fight!! :duel:

[Nebuchanezzar]

Damn right.

They released Kid Kash? That's absurd. He was an awesome cruiserweight. Also, was RAW this week good by comparison to previous weeks? I haven't watched it in a month or two now, so this week was the first one I've seen in a while. I thought it was pretty ok.

[Jeremy]

Raw was terrible compared to the past few weeks of good to great shows. I think it had a grand total of 20 minutes of ring time split across two hours. ECW was fantastic thanks to Holly's back laceration being a must-see moment, and something that showed he'd have been right at home in the original ECW.

[Nebuchanezzar]

I better watch ECW on Saturday then.

The matches on RAW were kinda lacking too. I mean, Hardy v Benjamin could have been match of the year material, but it came off as one entire let down to me.

[Dr Zaius]

Cena's beatdown was awesome. The King's Court sure knows how to beat a guy's ass.

[duffless89]

He got owned by royalty.

[block02]

The King Booker gimmick has grown on me. I love his accent and vocabulary.."You rapscallian!! You will kiss the royal feet of KING BOOOOOKAAAHHHHH!!!!" Also, Regal's overreaction when he and Finlay were "knighted" on Smackdown a while ago was priceless.

[Jeremy]

Justin Credible was canned earlier this week for going AWOL for the past few weeks. I'm disappointed because I like his work, and I was glad to see him get another chance in WWE. I hope nothing seriously wrong happened that led him to blow this chance.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Cena's beatdown was awesome. The King's Court sure knows how to beat a guy's ass.

I rather enjoyed watching Regal explode with that flurry of forearms to Cenas head. 'Twas quite entertaining.

[bauer]

The King Booker gimmick has grown on me. I love his accent and vocabulary.."You rapscallian!! You will kiss the royal feet of KING BOOOOOKAAAHHHHH!!!!"
I fucking laughed my ass off at this as well. I don't watch Smackdown, but that gimmick is fucking hilarious.

[Dr Zaius]

How about when he called Summerslam "The Summerslam Games". Gold, I tells ya.

[block02]

And the endless, "All hail King Booker!!!"

[Nebuchanezzar]

And so it comes to be that RAW gets a new theme, or something like that by some guy named Papa Roach. Thoughts?

[Jeremy]

Raw needs more than a new theme to become good again. Last night's show was WAY too focused on DX, and the goofy shit took away from the video packages (and build) for Cena-Edge in the cage. Then they went and added the DX feud to it, killing the match dead. And that was after DX killed the tag division once again. Hardy winning the IC belt made me happy though.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Looks like there's a whole lot of reason to watch RAW this afternoon :(

[Dr Zaius]

The crowd was both majorly into DX and Cena. The main even got some big pops throughout.
But what was up with that skidmark on Johnny? Fucking sick.

[block02]

No Mercy's main event will be changed to Lashley vs Finlay vs Batista vs Booker

Well that just made things more interesting.

[Dr. Horrible]

its not really a spoiler dude its on wwe's main page

[block02]

Well it certainly isn't now...Time for No Mercy Predictions/Thoughts:

Tag Titles-London and Kendrick have had the belts since May, but Idol and Stevens still seem a bit green. Look for the Champs to retain

Hardy vs. Helms-Should be a great match with great crowd reception. The title isn't on the line, so Hardy will probably win and hopefully move up to U.S. Title contention.

Last Man Standing-Please God let Rey win and end this feud.
MVP vs TBA- Apparently MVP got no reaction whatsoever at this week's SD taping. I'm reserving judgment until I see what(if any) ring skill he possesses. Will probably be a squash with a jobber.

Kennedy vs. Undertaker-Again the title isn' on the line, so 'Taker will probably take this one. I hope he won't though-Kennedy is damn entertaining.

World Title-Lashley is not ready for a world title reign yet, so he won't take it. I would love for Finlay to win, but he's a mat based wrestler, therefore all the marks wouldn't give him any reaction, therefore Vince won't give him the title. Batista was lucky to get one title reign and go over HHH three consecutive PPVs, and he certainly doesn't deserve another run. I pick Booker to retain, since champs usually do in 4 way matches and since Cole and JBL were going on about how he doesn't stand a chance to retain.

[Dr Zaius]

It's been ages since I watched SD. That sounds like a shit PPV. I mean, MVP? TBA? The fuck are these guys?

[Jeremy]

TBA = To Be Announced - MVP's opponent wasn't announced before the show. MVP is basically doing an overhyped sports star gimmick, who is great on the mic and fairly bad in the ring.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Wait...No Mercy is already over? That's crazy. I also heard that Meltzer guy published something vastly inaccurate in his paper about Marty Jannetty.

[Voodoo Monkey]

Care to elaborate?

[Dr Zaius]

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1418/untitled1at4.png

mod edit: warning: blurry dongs. nsfw

[Spartan]

saw that pic earlier today on 4chan

wow.

[Jeremy]

Meltzer apparently states in the newest Observer that Jannetty was fired again by WWE. Marty responded with something resembling English on his Myspace that didn't really deny the claim. I haven't gotten the newest Observer in the mail yet, so I can't be sure if the wording online is the same as in the newsletter.

TNA put a video of Angle arriving in Orlando up on Youtube. He was greeted by Terry Taylor in an airport and talked about TNA being perfect for him, and that he'd finally be given a chance to be himself. Then he met AJ and Jerry Lynn who fawned over a megastar being in TNA, all the while Kurt talks about how he's feeling great. Seeing him with Shane Douglas was eerie, since Shane is just coming off of a rehab stint, and Angle is in need of one.

[Nebuchanezzar]

Hehe, I read that Myspace entry. It saddened me that a man in or close to his forties types like that. Stewwwpids?

[Dr. Horrible]

regal has a ghastly undercarriage

[Jeremy]

It was the air conditioner, he swears.