The General Discussion Lounge

[grissom]

I was thinking about this today, since there are still a lot of members who contribute to the Simpsons discussion and nobody really discusses OFF in the other lounge, we should have a place in General Discussion where we can post Simpsons related stuff that doesn't really warrant it's own thread.

Well I'll get the ball rolling. Last night I realized I really don't hate Today I Am A Clown as much as I thought. I was actually laughing through most of it, but last time I watched it I remember being pretty disapointed.

[Thats A Paddlin]

Havnt seen that episode in a long time, so I wont give an oppinion here. But I do remember Mr. T being histerical and this joke
"you might say I felt bad for the guy...."
"you PITIED the fool??"
"thats one way of puttin in"

[The Brain]

I don't think this will work, the General Discussion section is a General Discussion Lounge. If you've got something to say about an episode just start a thread about, everyone else does. This will probably just confuse people about where to find a specific topic, or annoy people who missed the previous ones.
That's just my opinion though.

[PeterGriffin525]

I dont think this will work because there already is a forum section for this thread and it doesnt make sense to come here instead of finding the right thread for your topic.

[Snack Related Mishap]

I dont think this will work because there already is a forum section for this thread and it doesnt make sense to come here instead of finding the right thread for your topic.

sure it can, this random simpsons thoughts that don't merit their own thread

About Today I am a Klown, I can't wait for the next complete guide to come out(15 and 16) just to see how they reference the reference the book in that episode. I know, it is a stupid thing to be excited about, but if you don't like it, sue me.

[4 Alarm Chilli]

Well, it's a good idea from my view!

Anyway, after watching season 15 episodes on my PC, I've realised it's a pretty good season, the only episodes I don't like is the Treehouse of Horror, the Regina Monologous and Bart Magled Banner.
Today I am a Klown is a very good episode in my view , a great follow up to "Like Father like Klown". The beggining with the puppies was very entertaining, and the sub-plot was good too.

[Binky]

Here's something that probably doesn't need its own thread. Did anyone know that Tress MacNeille sang on one of Weird Al Yankovic's very early albums? She sang, as well as performed in the music video for "Ricky" as Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball). You can see some photos of her in the video in this gallery (http://www.weirdal.com/ricky1.htm). What's interesting is that she did an entirely different voice for Lucy 15 years later on The Simpsons in "Little Big Mom".

[H Thompson]

I think this could work, I do sometimes have things to say that I don't think warrant their own threads.
Thread supported.

[Ryan]

This thread will work if people don't use up the first 2 pages discussing whether or not the thread will work.

[Sacrilicious]

Here's a question that doesn't need a thread...

When was the "Scully Era" ?

Lots of talk about it of late, just wondering when he was show runner so I can join in. Sorry, I'm not very technically versed. I'm gradually getting a feel for the production aspects of the show though.

Thanks peeps.

[H Thompson]

Here's a question that doesn't need a thread...

When was the "Scully Era" ?

Lots of talk about it of late, just wondering when he was show runner so I can join in. Sorry, I'm not very technically versed. I'm gradually getting a feel for the production aspects of the show though.

Thanks peeps.
9-12 except for some season 9 episodes but this is a question that can go in the Q&A thread.

[Veryjammy]

I also think this could work for bits and pieces that don't warrant a whole thread. As long as people make sure meatier, worthier topics, get their own thread.

Anyway to actually contribute, I don't like Today I Am A Klown, it bores me. I may be reading way too much into it but I kinda got the impression Jay and Wallace didn't either. I remember Al Jean asking them on one of the commentaries if they saw it and they just said 'yeah' and there was a bit of an awkward silence during which I think Jean expected them to say 'It was great!' Or maybe I enjoy reading far far too much into the commentaries

[ppoi307]

Today I am A Klown I Like, but then again some of the humor you have to be Jewish to Understand.

[Reverend Lovejoy]

This is a good idea for a thread.

[H Thompson]

I also think this could work for bits and pieces that don't warrant a whole thread. As long as people make sure meatier, worthier topics, get their own thread.

Anyway to actually contribute, I don't like Today I Am A Klown, it bores me. I may be reading way too much into it but I kinda got the impression Jay and Wallace didn't either. I remember Al Jean asking them on one of the commentaries if they saw it and they just said 'yeah' and there was a bit of an awkward silence during which I think Jean expected them to say 'It was great!' Or maybe I enjoy reading far far too much into the commentaries
I've been intrested in following people on commentaries opinion of the show, I think you might be reading too much here though.
I'm looking forward to Oakley and Weinstein shows though because their not working on it anymore, Jean and Mirkin give a postive PR speech but I wonder if they'll be at all vocal, I know their not going to say it sucks now, but I'm sure they might want to avoid the subject, If I remember they were unaware of Thomas Pynchon's appearnce.

[DotheBartman]

If nothing else they've probably just moved on, like a lot of writers and producers do (I remember another former writer not being aware that Homer's middle name was revealed to be "Jay", and Brad Bird, despite his obvious fondness for the show, once said that he hasn't watched it in years because he just doesn't watch television anymore). I wouldn't be surprised if they just don't think about it much anymore and focus on other things. They have made comments before (that they thought seasons two and three were the best, and that "even when we were there" the show had moved into a mentality of having to have a joke in every line and that the stories and characters had suffered), but I don't know if that means they actually have any negative feelings about the show now (they were still clearly proud of their own years) or just feel that the seasons two and three happened to be the best.

EDIT: For the record, this was referring to Oakley and Weinstein. But yeah, it could be true of Kogen and Walladarsky as well.

[Thats A Paddlin]

I remember another former writer not being aware that Homer's middle name was revealed to be "Jay"

This was Jay Kogen, who, like you said, has probaly moved on and dosnt think to much about The Simpsons anymore. He's doing other things and he's not a Simpsons viewer.

[E-I-E-I-Moe]

I support the thread.

Until I saw Milhouse of Sand and Fog, I thought in every new episode they were trying to shock us. The Father, The Son and The Holy Guest Star had Homer say he masturbates a lot; Bonfire of the Manatees had Homer throw up on camera (ugh...), and The Girl Who Slept Too Little had Homer say the S-word. But then I saw Sand and Fog and didn't spot something like that.

[Veryjammy]

If nothing else they've probably just moved on, like a lot of writers and producers do (I remember another former writer not being aware that Homer's middle name was revealed to be "Jay", and Brad Bird, despite his obvious fondness for the show, once said that he hasn't watched it in years because he just doesn't watch television anymore). I wouldn't be surprised if they just don't think about it much anymore and focus on other things. They have made comments before (that they thought seasons two and three were the best, and that "even when we were there" the show had moved into a mentality of having to have a joke in every line and that the stories and characters had suffered), but I don't know if that means they actually have any negative feelings about the show now (they were still clearly proud of their own years) or just feel that the seasons two and three happened to be the best.

EDIT: For the record, this was referring to Oakley and Weinstein. But yeah, it could be true of Kogen and Walladarsky as well.

Unless I've misinterpreted this - Oakley and Weinstein weren't on the staff during Seasons 2 and 3 so don't you think it odd that they would say that the years they weren't there were the best?

[DotheBartman]

Yeah, but again that's why they said "even while we were there". I'll have to find that interview again (I found it through a "Mission Hill" fan site, which I wasn't explicitely looking for since I've only ever seen that show once). It's also what made it fascinating to me, since I'd never seen anyone (let alone a showrunner) be so candid about their own years on the show. They were still clearly complimentary of the whole show up to that point (1999? 2000? I don't remember the exact year of the interview) and one of them said that they truly felt it was the greatest show of all time and that people will still be watching it in 100 years. But they were still pretty candid about their preference for seasons two and three (I've heard Greg Daniels also expressed his preference for 1-3 on a KOTH commentary).

[H Thompson]

I think I came across that interview, in fact I rember finding something, (I don't know if it was the same thing) but it was incredibly obscure because it was a website that mentioned mission hill in refrence to single dads or something like that. and it interviewed them before and after the show's cancellation.
You should download it veryjammy, just to be sure you have the same criticisms of it that you have for their simpsons episodes and if you do, then I'll definatley take a chance and order it on dvd.

[grissom]

and The Girl Who Slept Too Little had Homer say the S-word.
I still can't figure out why he did that. It wasn't really funny, he just randomly came in, yelled a swear, and then left again. I wonder if they'll leave that bleeped with the DVD release.

[DuffMan72]

I still can't figure out why he did that. It wasn't really funny, he just randomly came in, yelled a swear, and then left again. I wonder if they'll leave that bleeped with the DVD release.

It probably will be beeped, like that scene in an older episode where Homer was swearing at the ambulance.

[Veryjammy]

You should download it veryjammy, just to be sure you have the same criticisms of it that you have for their simpsons episodes and if you do, then I'll definatley take a chance and order it on dvd.

Haha you joker you

[Handsome Peter]

9-12 except for some season 9 episodes but this is a question that can go in the Q&A thread.

Also the first 5 season 13 episodes are in the Scully era.

"Today I am a Clown" - a very jokey episode, some worked, others didn't. I'd say it's average for S15.

Any Canadians here who watch the show at 5:00 PM on CBC? Last week they started rerunning Season 16 episodes, but they were very crappily edited. Whenever a cut was made, the scene faded to black. I didn't see the episode they aired today or last Friday, but the worst cut I have seen so far is in "Fat Man and Little Boy" where they literally cut in the middle of the "Pink Panther" theme. Of all the stupid cuts I've seen, this is now the stupidest - they've cut at the start and end of a song before, but this is the first I can recall in the middle.

Today "Duffless" aired on OMNI.1 at 6:00 PM, and it was the US syndication edit. Is it my imagination, or did they used to play a different version? (I recall seeing this episode on that channel with the last joke in act 2 cut.)

[Imperciph]

This thread is a good idea.

Well let me ask you guys a question. What do you think of the Season 5 episode "The last temptation of Homer" ?

As a marriage crisis episode I have seen this episode criticised on NHC for not attempting an emotional build up to Homer and Mindy's realtionship.

Well for me, I do prefer "Colonel Homer" to it and I think its just a "What If Homer met his dream woman" scenario, the gags and the subplot more than makeup for it.

And David Mirkin thinks he really deeply explored Homer's character with this episode.

I feel Bart's subplot is a true representation of the schoolkids' philosophy of basing their opinion on appearances. Hell, the same thing happened to me when I had to take new really big glasses.The next day my position as a nerd was cemented in my class and I have been otrmented by school bullies ever since. (Though I am not reducing my nerdiness by posting here. :D )

[Veryjammy]

The biggest problem I have with this board as a whole is that I sometimes feel far too much emphasis is placed on emotional build-up or being satirical or exploring characters. Those are all important aspects, but not every single episode needs them. In the case of The Last Temptation of Homer, so what if it isn't Colonel Homer part 2? Colonel Homer is the better episode, but overall I think The Last Temptation is funnier, which makes up for it.

What irritates me most is the Season 5 criticisms, when Season 5 is an almost flawless example of gag comedy. It's not got as much depth as some other seasons, but who said it had to? When I first came I was adamant Season 5 was better than 6 and was slowly brainwashed into thinking 6 was much better. But tonight I looked at the episode list side by side and I think given the choice I would go for Season 5. The plots aren't as engaging perhaps, but I think the joke writing on the whole is cleverer, more inventive and most importantly, funnier.

Oh I'm rambling. Well to sort of get back on track, The Last Temptation Of Homer contains so many great jokes I really don't mind the fact that it doesn't go for the big emotional angle

[4 Alarm Chilli]

Season 5 is brilliant. I can't give any real reasons like Veryjammy, but from my view I see it as a slight improvement from season 4. Just the episodes I like more. The last temptaion was really good at making me laugh. I saw Cape Feare for the first time 6 months ago when the DVD came out and I loved it.

Anyway, where did season 5 come in the Season Rankings Drunk Barney?

[Imperciph]

What irritates me most is the Season 5 criticisms, when Season 5 is an almost flawless example of gag comedy. It's not got as much depth as some other seasons, but who said it had to? When I first came I was adamant Season 5 was better than 6 and was slowly brainwashed into thinking 6 was much better. But tonight I looked at the episode list side by side and I think given the choice I would go for Season 5. The plots aren't as engaging perhaps, but I think the joke writing on the whole is cleverer, more inventive and most importantly, funnier.


Heh, you are not alone. Before I came to NHC, Season 5 was 3rd most favorite season right after 4 and 7. Then by slowly reading the discussions here, Season 5 dropped to be the second worst classic season in my book.

I do think Season 5 has become a little underrated as of late. I mean as much as I can can complain about Homer in Bart gets an Elephant, I'll still laugh out loud at the scene where he has a bird "groom" his head. :LOL:
"Homer goes to college" is always brought up here as a birthplace of jerkass Homer.Certainly there are problems with him. However as an "Animal House" parody, I feel it is far better than Futurama's "Mars University". And the inspection of SNPP is actually funnier here than the inspection scene of "Two cars in every garage, Three eyes on every fish".

And not every viewer will want to watch "Principal Charming" or even "Old Money" but they will enjoy "Lady Bouvier's Lover" and "Sweet Seymour Skinner's Badass song".

Edit: I also think Season 6 is better, H_T. I find the plots tighter, the gags for unexpected (Guy Incognito), the storylines more ambitious and satirical.

[H Thompson]

I don't think people actually think lowly of season 5, it's just a bit weaker, but there's not much in it. But I really think season 6 is better in every aspect I really do think it's more consistently funny and more inventive with the humour with a lot of "screwing with the audience jokes" 5 seemed slightly more simplistic and predictable to me.

[Snack Related Mishap]

I don't think 5 is better than 6, but I ddefinately think it is underrated. Liek you said, not every episode has to have emotional depth, it can just be a fun episode to watch. In fact, I love last Temptation, I found, surprisingly, it beats out Colonel Homer(#11 out of my top ten) and makes it in around number 4 I think on my top 25. I don't mean any offense to Matt Groening, but I just feel it is a slightly better episode(though almost all, if not all, the episodes in my top 25 are A+'s, so they are still really close)

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

[BloodE]

I think Season 5 is a great season, it just has alot to live up to considering it successes 4.
Season 6 is a fantastic season, however that may be because I haven't seen the episodes IN SO DAMN LONG. I plan on picking up the DVD next week.

[Imperciph]

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

You are not alone on this, my friend. This episode always creates a lump in my throat. Just like Homer's Triple Bypass, even though I know Homer is not going to die, I feel very sorry for him. And the ending is the icing on the cake, too. Homer bonds with Abe, gives advice to his son, encourages Lisa when he knows he is going to die soon.These scenes are some of the best of the series. But when he realises he'll live, he just sits in front of TV, munching snacks. The writers make the cynical observation :What are doing with our precious lives anyway?

[H Thompson]

I actually don't find blowfish that moving it seems to veer between over doing the schmaltz or undermining it.
Still a great episode though.

[4 Alarm Chilli]

I think "A Star is torn" tries to be schmaltzy but I don't hink it will live up to "Simpsons and Delilah", "When Flanders Failed" or "One fish two fish etc in schmaltzyness.

[Handsome Peter]

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

I have done it. The closest I've come to crying while watching a Simpsons episode is after Homer says his goodbyes to his children.

[Snack Related Mishap]

Hey, this doesn't deserve it's own thread so:

I was just wondering about a controversial joke from Homie the Klown. The joke is the Hamburgler comes along, Homer sees him, and thinks he is a real burgler trying to steal the burlger. Then he starts beating the guy without mercy.

What do you guys think of that joke? I personally like it. It surprises me I do like considering I usually find these scenes incredibly stupid to be funny, but when I first saw this scene, I could not stop laughing. I think what makes it for me is he kid crying, "Oh God, stop, he's already dead!" I know, I am a sick twisted individual, but it makes me laugh really hard. i think something else that makes it funny, is just the fact that Homer is stupid enough to think the guys is really there to steal burgers. Anyway, again, what do you guys think?

[H Thompson]

I loved the joke at first but now this place kind of ruined it for me.

[Veryjammy]

That's the best moment of the episode. I never even realised it was 'controversial' until I heard some of the oversensitive nitpickers on here moan about it.

[Simpsons Forever!]

Personally, I think it's hilarious, but I can see why it's so controversial. Is there any mention of it on the commentary for Homie The Clown?

[Imperciph]

What are your opinions on "Deep Space Homer" and its impact on the evolution of The Simpsons as a series?

It certainly provided a leap from the down-to-earth grounds of the Groening-Simon-Brooks years and even Jean-Reiss years. It may even be the first of many wacky Homer adventures which will plague the later years of the show. And let's face it, Homer's character is not perfect either. His stupidity is certainly exaggarated (his efforts to read the writing on his head and "I'll your bash your head")

However, I feel this was the episode that defined the "Mirkin" style of the show. The storyline of this episode is very tight. I just love the fact in the end the inanimate carbon rod returns once again to claim Homer's glory; that tangent in the first act was not just a one-off gag. And it really does a good job of satirising of institutions picking out "average joes" and make them into "heroes" as a publicity stunt. And the mocking of "Home Improvement" and other sitcoms had me laughing for several minutes.

[Thats A Paddlin]

To the Hamburglar joke: Definitly one of my favorite moments in the episode. But I have a twisted sense of humor and I would've liked it better if the midget actually had been killed.

To Deep Space Homer: It was the first real episode where the writers seem to say "Who cares if its unbelievable, its funny!"

[BloodE]

Deep Space Homer is a memorable episode, possibly the writers insighted that if they did something unbelievable suddenly they could garner popularity, if they did it right - which they did.

[Veryjammy]

Aren't we all forgetting Marge Vs Monorail? Squirrels shooting laser beams? Trees with tentacles? Everything concerning the monorail?

Oh and the lift to nowhere? And the giant magnifying glass and popsicle tower?

[Thats A Paddlin]

Marge Vs. The Monorail was pretty out there in terms of the story. But not like Deep Space Homer, IMO.

[Veryjammy]

Marge Vs. The Monorail was pretty out there in terms of the story. But not like Deep Space Homer, IMO.

Not really. As far as I'm aware they have sent normal people into space. The biggest unrealistic point is the door opening and then shutting it with the carbon rod, but it's no more unrealistic than the anchor being caught in the donut. It's just that the setting makes it appear wackier. I think there's considerably more wackiness overall in Marge Vs Monorail

[Thats A Paddlin]

Im starting to see your point, I'll retract my statement and say that the two episodes are equally whacky.

[Simpsons Forever!]

I think Deep Space Homer was the point at which the writers realised the flexibility of The Simpsons and its potential to last for years on TV - which they took advantage of in this episode. They also broke the ice, opening the way for many other wacky, but funny, plots since then. This was also the moment The Simpsons accepted it was a cartoon and stopped trying to imitate real-life sitcoms so much, leading to its golden age.

[Veryjammy]

I think Deep Space Homer was the point at which the writers realised the flexibility of The Simpsons and its potential to last for years on TV - which they took advantage of in this episode. They also broke the ice, opening the way for many other wacky, but funny, plots since then. This was also the moment The Simpsons accepted it was a cartoon and stopped trying to imitate real-life sitcoms so much, leading to its golden age.

No no no, what could be more flexible than radioactive squirrels and trees and runaway monorails and giant magnifying glasses and a vanishing Leonard Nemoy and escalators to nowhere and anchors ripping siamese twins in two. The more I think about it the more convinced I am Marge Vs Monorail was definetely the major turning point.

[H Thompson]

Well in this thread I completley agree with you VJ.
And in fact Deep Space Homer made more effort to ground the episode emotionally developing homer's fear and giving him a proper motivation.
Monorail was just a bunch of very wacky stuff that happend.

[4 Alarm Chilli]

Who watches Sipmsons on fox? I'm starting to see fox more than channel 4. There's a larger range of episodes.

[Nameless]

Who watches Sipmsons on fox? I'm starting to see fox more than channel 4. There's a larger range of episodes.

err, you live in the UK. are you talking about sky?

[Imperciph]

No no no, what could be more flexible than radioactive squirrels and trees and runaway monorails and giant magnifying glasses and a vanishing Leonard Nemoy and escalators to nowhere and anchors ripping siamese twins in two. The more I think about it the more convinced I am Marge Vs Monorail was definetely the major turning point.

Yeah I agree with you completely.But in terms of of-the-wall wackiness I believe the true start was Homer at the Bat.8 guest stars, each falling into increasingly surreal accidents within a short period of time.

And Deep Space Homer was very,very tightly focussed. Every plot element introduced in the opening scene at SNPP :the love for the inanimate carbon rod, Homer's trying to gain respect of everyone was touched upon in the climax. On the other hand, Marge vs. The Monorail starts with Homer as Fred and ends with the escelator of nowhere.

So you guys are concluding that instead of Deep Space Homer, Marge vs. the Monorail was more of a definitive point of The Simpsons' "evolution" or "decline". Fine with me.

[Jims]

On another note, Just watched One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish again, and am I the only one who gets very close to tears everytime I get to the end of this episode. This must be the 10th time atleast I have seen it, and every time my eyes whater(though I don't shed a tear) This is definately up in my top three tear jerkers, even though it didn't exactly get me to cry. Anyone else do this when they see this episode?

That's creepy. I just popped in Season Two and watched this one today, along with Bart vs. Thankgiving. I'd have to agree that the episode does hit a very emotional note toward the end of the episode as Homer sits in the evening chair, awaiting the morning. It kind of feels like "the last episode of The Simpsons" in a weird way, even though it clearly wasn't.

As for the moment the Simpsons jumped into wackiness, I would have to agree on "Marge vs. The Monorail." It has a lot of goofy, wacky parts, like the Escalator to Nowhere. "Homer at the Bat" was also pretty silly though. Although Steve Sax's arrest was pretty realistic I guess, considering the police force in Springfield.

[Veryjammy]

Btw I certainly don't consider Marge Vs Monorail the start of the decline, just the start of something different. I'd kill for an episode nowadays that showed the creativity and inventiveness of the gags in that show. I think Jean has almost pulled the show too far in the opposite direction in fact, it often reminds me of the mundanity of some of the lesser Season 8 episodes.

[H Thompson]

I'm starting to think some writers may have developed old man syndrome,
a lot of writers, musicans, artists etc seem to do their best work earlier in life before settling down, getting married and having kids etc, maybe that's had an effect on some of the writers because the show's often very gentle today, season 8 had some mundane episodes I'll admit but it still had a darkness and edge to it that's lacking today.
Satrically there's not enough anger today. From the commentaries you get a sense from Mirkin and also George Meyer even O+W that their really quite pissed off about some of these issues, but "something about marrying" for example was probably was too even handed and as well as the satire being lost in a wacky homer scheme and soap opera story line.
Although on the opposite end of the spectrum BMB and Hail Mary Pass were too heavy handed so I guess I don't know what to think.

[IAMHOMER]

Slightly old, but I found this interesting review of the 5th season DVD from amazon.com:

The Simpsons - The Complete Fifth Season DVD ~ Dan Castellaneta

Price: $37.49

Availability: Usually ships in 24 hours

32 used from $23.47


12 of 25 people found the following review helpful:

(3 stars) The decline of "The Simpsons" begins..., February 1, 2005
Considering that most of these sets offer the same kinds of extras, the rating has to reflect the quality of the episodes themselves.

And, unfortunately, after reaching new heights of excellence with "Marge vs. the Monorail" and "A Streetcar Named Marge" in season 4 and peaking with arguably the most intellectually hilarious 30 seconds in television history ("Worker and Parasite" in "Krusty gets Kancelled"), the first signs of what has become a long, slow decline of "The Simpsons" begins in Season 5.

This isn't to say there weren't some misses in previous seasons, but even the less-than-stellar episodes generated at least a few laughs. And this isn't to say that "The Simpsons" has jumped the shark (although it has come close at times); even its worst episodes are better than nearly all of the other "Raymonds," "Jims" and "Joeys" that pass for TV comedy today combined.

But what even the most rabid Simpsons fan has to admit is that Season 5 is the first season where episodes that are truly unfunny from beginning to end appear. "Marge on the Lam" is a monotonous take on "Thelma and Louise" that goes absolutely nowhere. "Bart Gets an Elephant" is a one-joke piece that begins a seemingly endless series of "funny pet" episodes that appear with distressing predictability in future seasons. "Bart Gets Famous" is quite possibly the worse episode ever--a totally unfunny exercise in self-absorption that blooms into the endless series of reflexive Fox jokes in season 6. "Homes Goes to College" begins a terrible trend of Homer-as-frat-boy plots, and "Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy" maligns little Lisa with a plot unworthy of her intelligence.

Season 5 also begins the regrettable tendency to replace genuine laughs from witty writing and situations with cheap laughs from cutaway visual gags and one-liners. It's a shopworn practice as old as cartoons themselves, and one that The Simpsons managed to largely resist until Season 5, where it became a patented fall-back mechanism and remains so today.

Most distressing is the total transformation of Homer from a slow yet caring father-cum-working class hero into a completely one-dimensional neanderthal. Whether this was a directive from Fox or a conscious decision by Groenig and co., it started the series on a long downward slide into predictability and shameless pandering to contemporary music and MTV culture.

So what earns this collection its 3 stars? The few stellar episodes like "Cape Feare," "Deep Space Homer," "Homer and Apu" and "The Devil and Ned Flanders" vignette from "Treehouse of Horror." None of these episodes matches the sheer combination of wit and scathing satire as the pantheon episodes, but they at least are funny. That can't be said for the clunkers in season 5, nearly all of season 6, and, these days, at least 50% of all episodes from season 5 on. If you haven't seen these episodes, the collection is worth it (although seasons 1-4 truly comprise the Golden Age of the series) for the diamonds in the rough. For those who have seen it, it's the last "must have" Simpsons collection; everything from this point forward is for diehard fans only.


Does anyone here know people who share a similar view - ie that season 5 was not just a dip in quality (albeit still a great season) before recovering to the masterly level of seasons 2-4 in 6 and 7 - but a fundamental decline from which the show has never recovered and continues to do this day??

Personally I think a lot of his comments are nonsense - if I can be bothered I might elaborate later - but he's expressing an opinion and doesn't expect everyone to agree with it. It's interesting though that quite a few people on the "Jump the Shark" site have expressed similar sentiments regarding the point at which the show lost the plot, some dating the defining point even as far back as the Monorail episode.

But if you look at the history of the show from a rational and objective perspective, and people say that its standards already began to slip as early as 1993/94 and have carried on slipping to this day, then logically how did it manage to remain on air for more than another decade and still attract more than 10 million viewers week after week?

[Thats A Paddlin]

I'm starting to think some writers may have developed old man syndrome,
a lot of writers, musicans, artists etc seem to do their best work earlier in life before settling down, getting married and having kids etc, maybe that's had an effect on some of the writers because the show's often very gentle today, season 8 had some mundane episodes I'll admit but it still had a darkness and edge to it that's lacking today.


Agreed, the Strangelove-esque dark sense of satire seems to be a distant memory today.


Does anyone here know people who share a similar view - ie that season 5 was not just a dip in quality (albeit still a great season) before recovering to the masterly level of seasons 2-4 in 6 and 7 - but a fundamental decline from which the show has never recovered and continues to do this day??


I disagree completly, Season 5 was a key link in the masterpiece chain of Seasons 2-8, IMO.

[E-I-E-I-Moe]

This is off-topic from what you guys are saying, but... It probably will be beeped, like that scene in an older episode where Homer was swearing at the ambulance.
All those bleeps were the joke; it wasn't like South Park where they talk like that and it's not a joke. I'm sure Dan didn't actually record swear words.

[IAMHOMER]

I disagree completly, Season 5 was a key link in the masterpiece chain of Seasons 2-8, IMO.

Remember this isn't my point of view. I have seen just half of season 6 (including greats like Lisa's Wedding, Homer the Great, Homie the Clown, Bart's Girlfriend, Bart of Darkness etc) and two from season 7 (Who Shot Mr Burns Pt 2 and Lisa the Vegetarian), but I enjoyed almost all those episodes, except perhaps Lisa the Vegetarian, which I've only seen once and several years ago. Yet at the time I watched most of them I was much more of a casual viewer than a 'diehard fan'.

I was just reiterating what a few people including this Amazon reviewer still think about season 4 being the last truly great season and things going downhill from season 5 onwards, which is clearly wrong in most people's opinion here.

[Veryjammy]

That review is nonsense. There is no episode in Season 5 that is completely unfunny from start to finish. And I really don't think 'Worker and Parasite', funny though it is, could be considered the intellectual peak of the show. And there were probably more cutaways in Season 4 than 5. He sounds like an old-school fan, which is fine, I myself consider 2-4 to be the absolute peak of the show. But for him to then compliment Deep Space Homer, excellent though it is, reeks of hypocrisy. I'm a bit drunk so I can't rip into that review as much as I'd like, but I disagree. Very very much so.

[Lizard Queen]

That review is nonsense. There is no episode in Season 5 that is completely unfunny from start to finish. And I really don't think 'Worker and Parasite', funny though it is, could be considered the intellectual peak of the show. And there were probably more cutaways in Season 4 than 5. He sounds like an old-school fan, which is fine, I myself consider 2-4 to be the absolute peak of the show. But for him to then compliment Deep Space Homer, excellent though it is, reeks of hypocrisy. I'm a bit drunk so I can't rip into that review as much as I'd like, but I disagree. Very very much so.
If you're drunk you should rip...rip it, rummy!

[Imperciph]

As long as we are posting interesting reviews from Amazon.com,here is another one for you guys to dig into:

"The decline begins in earnest, August 18, 2005

Reviewer: M. A Oberly (Columbus, Ohio USA) - See all my reviews

Season five of The Simpsons was the first season that was noticeably inferior, with lots of 'jokey' episodes, thin plots, and inane celeb appearances (by this time, it was apparently 'hip' for celebs to make appearances on the show), but season six was the start of a precipitous drop. There are a number of episodes in this season which would fit right in with season eight or nine, or any other mediocre season. In particular, 'Sideshow Bob Roberts', 'Lisa on Ice', 'Bart vs. Australia', 'Round Springfield', and 'Lemon of Troy' are serious stinkers, virtually absent of laughs, or any genuine emotion.

I do like a few of this season's episodes, especially 'Lisa's Wedding' and 'Lisa's Rival', but these are isolated standouts in an overall mediocre stew. In fact, thinking of some of these shows depressed me so much I had to go back and watch some of season two, which is almost unrelentingly brilliant.

I don't really blame the writers, since five years is just about the most any show can sustain. The show was just starting to get stale by this time. It's baffling to read comments stating that season six is 'the BEST season EVER'. I personally can't imagine sitting through something as tedious as 'Lemon of Troy' ever again.

I saw another reviewer comment that The Simpsons didn't quite jump the shark in season six, but I disagree -- it jumped it with full Fonzie gear on, and thumb in the air."

Interesting, isn't it?

"Sideshow Bob Roberts", "Lemon of Troy" are stinkers? :uhh:
I believe this guy a hardcore old-school ATS simpsons fan.

"Lisa on Ice" is a very good and sweet Bart and Lisa episode which is somewhat damaged by a not so stellar characterisation of Homer. But its ending and the ending of "And Maggie Makes Three" is not full of genuine emotion? :boggled:

If he says says "Sideshow Bob Roberts" is a stinker I am afraid he has missed the point of the episode completely. As a political satire it is second only to "Two Cars in every eyes,three eyes on every fish."

Mediocre stew eh?Sideshow Bob Roberts, Itchy and Scratchy Land, Homer:Badman are part of the series' best satires.Almost every member here agrees with that. And how is Lemon of Troy more laughless than Dancing Homer or Barts Dog gets an F?

And as a Grandpa episode,I prefer "Grandpa vs. Sexual Inadequacy" to "Old Money".IMO, its funnier, has better gags and is more ambitious. It sports a very funny subplot with Springfield's kids and attempts to flesh out Homer and Abe's relationship and does quite a decent job of it. And as far as I can remember, even alt.tv.simpson's Matthew Kurth gave it a good review.

There was no guest-star extravaganza as in Season four's "Krusty gets cancelled" in Season six.

Honestly, these kind of reviews such as "absence of this, overpresence of that" makes me think "Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie Show" was really a counter-attack to these fans.

And he says he does not get why Season 6 is being hailed as the best. He needs to understand not everyone is going to have the same requirements as him for enjoying the episodes. Majority of the current tv-viewers prefer a more gag-centric show. The popularity of Family Guy is a perfect example of that.Which is why Season 6 is hailed as the best season along with 4 and 5 rather 2.

[H Thompson]

The thing is I'm fine with these negative old school review viewpoints, but it's their inconsistency, If they were to say season 4 was the first real step down with lot's of episodes focusing on wacky humour and cutaways over subtle character based stuff then that's all fine and good but their opinions are just all over the place and don't seem to follow any logical patterns.

[4 Alarm Chilli]

I think Homer and Ned's Hail Mary Pass is a bit underated. I enjoy this wacky episode, it's not really a good episode, but I always find it enjoyable.

[Veryjammy]

This thread was made for such stupid tidbits as this:

I have finally got the That's A Paddlin joke in The PTA Disbands. I never got it because when I first saw it I thought he was telling a story about paddling in a canoe which didn't make any sense, and that stuck with me everytime I saw it. But now I know better, and feel very stupid as well.

[Imperciph]

On a related topic:

I finally got the "No- soap radio" gag in "Homer The Heretic". Pretty stupid of me, isn't it?

[Ryan]

Not really.. it took me a long time to get that one too

[Tipsy McStagger]

What is the deal with the 'thats a paddlin' joke?

[samsa]

Actually I want to know what the no soap radio joke is supposed to mean

[Binky]

I want to know where that joke is even said.

[vox]

I want to know where that joke is even said.
Homer has a "No Soap Radio" in the shower in Homer the Heretic, which was pointed out in the commentary.

[Imperciph]

The joke is not said. In "Homer The Heretic", while Homer is bathing in his bathroom he turns on a radio which has the title "No soap, radio!!."

It means there is no "soap" on the radio. Also, here soap does not mean the stuff you use to wash or bath with. :p

Edit: Do'h! Seems I never got it.

[vox]

The joke is not said. In "Homer The Heretic", while Homer is bathing in his bathroom he turns on a radio which has the title "No soap, radio!!."

It means there is no "soap" on the radio. Also, here soap does not mean the stuff you use to wash or bath with. :p
Hmm? No, I think you're thinking too hard. There's nothing to get, really. It's just a reference to a famous non-joke. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_soap_radio

[Thats A Paddlin]

Its a refrence to that non-joke and all but it's also funny in the sense that thers a radio in the shower {a water and soap proof radio in the shower}

[Imperciph]

Just watched Homer:Badman and marvelled in its sheer brilliance.

It was satire like this that used to make OFF so great. All the social commentary made in that episode still holds true even in these days.

The manipulative nature of the media, the excessive reaction due to Homer's alleged crime, the media circus that ensues after Homer's disastrously edited interview, the shots taken at various programs such as Hard Copy and even David Letterman, Marge's brilliant social observation "You know, the courts might not work any more, but as long as everybody is videotaping everyone else, justice will be done." and how in the end Homer does not even learn anything from his predicament and insteads believes in TV again make this episode one of the best ever.

Meh, I guess this episode deserves a separate discussion thread on General Discussion. How about you guys make one and PM the GD Essay dorks to come and discuss it to greater detail?

[IAMHOMER]

Sorry to start another topic so abruptly, but has anyone noticed the 80s style music when Burns and Smithers are carting away the barrel of toxic waste in Marge vs the Monorail? Is it a reference to something?

[Snack Related Mishap]

Sorry to start another topic so abruptly, but has anyone noticed the 80s style music when Burns and Smithers are carting away the barrel of toxic waste in Marge vs the Monorail? Is it a reference to something?

It is the song Axel F played in the movie Beverly Hills Cop. Although, I am not sure if it was made specifically for the movie, or if they just bought the rights to use it.

[Binky]

No, it's not "Axel F" at all. It's something composed by Alf Clausen that's meant to be similar, yet sounds so very different.

[BloodE]

No.

Just checked. It's definetly Axel F or a parody of Axel F.

[Imperciph]

Sorry to post again in this thread but I felt like posting something which I found to be relevant in this thread only.

Season 2, by many members here, my self included, is considered to be the most intellectual season of the show with many complex emotional and satirical episodes.

But is it completely devoid of "Just for fun" episodes too?

I just watched "Brush With Greatness" and I think it is very very funny, right on par with the Season 4,5,6 gag-fests. If it aired in Season 4, there would have been smoe cutaways added and if it aired Season 5 or 6 it would have just contained some surreal gags.

I am posting this because many think that Season 2's humor is just character based but this is also chock full of great gags :"Can we have a pool Dad?" is one of the best this show has ever done, Homer's subplot to lose weight is as hilarious as "King-size Homer". There is some great Burns and Smithers interaction too. And who won't find Burns' final painting not funny?

Discuss.

[H Thompson]

but of course, dead putting society, bart the daredevil, the way we was, brush with greatness, brother can you spare two dimes, three men and a comic book, blood feud are all fun episodes that aren't particulary demanding on the brain and they have their cutaways, wacky gags and fantasy sequences that would easily fit into season 4. Seriously from these episodes only The Way We Was and bart the daredevil have any sequnces of emotional development without any jokes but no more so than some Jean+Reiss, Mirkin and Oakley+Weinstein episodes.

[4 Alarm Chilli]

Yep, season 2 has some of the best gags, not just the scene in Bart the Daredevil but some others, I can't name any now.

By the way, does anyone here like an episode that lots of people hate? Dispite it's hate I love Homer and Ned's Hail Mary Pass, it's not great ok, but fun.

[grissom]

There's several episode no one likes that I do. Hail Mary Pass, Burns Verkaufen Der Kraftwerk (not really hated but the average grade is only like a B, deserves an A- at least), The Trouble With Trillions, Mom and Pop Art, and a few others.

[Veryjammy]

Watching the Season 6 DVD is scaring me. I think I might prefer Season 7 which will then cause the very fabric of the universe to collapse in on itself. I used to love Bart's Comet but watching it just now it seems so very slight and inconsequential, and I can't say I laughed all that much. Same for Homer The Great, it didn't really feel like anything much happened. Homer Badman and the THOH seemed as good as ever but, ohhhh this is going to be such a humiliating climbdown......

[Snack Related Mishap]

By the way, does anyone here like an episode that lots of people hate? Dispite it's hate I love Homer and Ned's Hail Mary Pass, it's not great ok, but fun.

I think I am the only one on this board who actually likes the Fat and the Furriest, Very underrated episode imo.

Also, i just observed something kind of strange, my top three seasons all contain one episode that I dislike.

Season 6: Yet Another Simpsons Clip Show 3/10
Season 7: Homerpalooza 4/10
Season 5: Homer likes Flanders 4/10

Hmm, it's very odd. Anyway, I am think of putting season three in as my third favorite season on my ranking. I don't know, I am pretty torn right now.

[grissom]

Forgot to mention Fat and The Furriest, I like that one as well

[Lizard Queen]

By the way, does anyone here like an episode that lots of people hate?
I like Sunday, Cruddy Sunday. People seem to hate that one.

[Thats A Paddlin]

As do I, I found SCS very funny.

[Reverend Lovejoy]

I don't have anything against SCS myself.

[Veryjammy]

Second. Worst. Episode. Ever.

[Drunk Barney]

Watching the Season 6 DVD is scaring me. I think I might prefer Season 7 which will then cause the very fabric of the universe to collapse in on itself. I used to love Bart's Comet but watching it just now it seems so very slight and inconsequential, and I can't say I laughed all that much. Same for Homer The Great, it didn't really feel like anything much happened. Homer Badman and the THOH seemed as good as ever but, ohhhh this is going to be such a humiliating climbdown......

Starting to get Simpsons overkill again Jammy:P?

I've started to give up ranking now. I chop and change too much!

I saw Bart's Comet the other day, I thought it was great, but the plot was a tad disjointed.

[grissom]

SCS is underrated, but it's still not great. I think I rated it a C+ or a C- when I last saw it.

[Homer Jay]

Well that might just be the best proof that all episodes get better with age

[Veryjammy]

I dunno about overkill D_B, I'm just finding it a bit weird watching all these Season 6 episodes and not finding them that funny. The problem could well be that they were the episodes I watched by far the most when I was younger and I've just killed them. Some, like Fear Of Flying, I hadn't seen for years but I could still anticipate every line, every joke. Or it could just be I've gotten older and, in many ways, the Season 6 episodes seem quite lightweight, obvious ones like Sideshow Bob Roberts, Lisa's Wedding and Homer Badman aside (incidentally my only A+'s for the season along with the THOH.)

And funnily, it's also made me appreciate some of the Jean episodes more, when you would have thought it would have done exactly the opposite. The Girl Who Slept Too Little, for example, seemed to me to be a good episode, but not up to golden era standard. But after watching The Season 6 set I think it could have slipped in there in terms of quality, obviously though there are stylistic differences in the writing. It would have been in the bottom half of the season but I think it's good enough. Likewise, some of the other better episodes of Season 16 - The Heartbroke Kid, Thank God It's Doomsday, There's Something About Marrying, Sleeping With The Enemy - are just as good as some of the Season 6 episodes imo.

[H Thompson]

I've started to give up ranking now. I chop and change too much!
.

I've been thinking that, it's become a chore, agnosing over certain things, is it an A- or an A etc and it doesn't quite make for a true reflection of a seasons quality anyway, I still like to do it for new episodes though.

[Homer Jay]

I still grade, but I don't put that much thought, or really any thought. I think there are some episodes that I've given a different grade every time I've rated the episode.

[KMDSimpson]

I picked up Quake 4 today, and one character talks exactly like the prison warden from a few Simpsons episodes. I checked the credits in the manual, and the voice is done by Charles Napier.

If at one point he says "This end's for holdin', this one's for beatin'", I'll be very happy. ;)

[4 Alarm Chilli]

Everthing's nicer without grading. I prefer to watch an episode and not grade. Just saw I D'oh Bot on DVD. Despite being a pirate, it has some great graphics.
Now watching season 15 there are several episodes I don't like, apart from Regina and Bart Mangled Banner. Simple Simpson? I don't like this one. How can they do a plot about a superhero? Nice spiderman references but it isn't great. My big fat geek wedding is also crap. Apart from the musical there was no good fun. 2 Skinner and Krabbabel episodes are enough. I really hope they don't do a fourth. How could Edna fall for CBG?

[grissom]

I don't know why so many people hate Regina Monologues, it's actually pretty good in my book

[H Thompson]

I think it's because the jokes aren't funny there's nothing in the way of characters interacting and what little plot there is is stupid, illogical and boring.

[Nameless]

No, it's not "Axel F" at all. It's something composed by Alf Clausen that's meant to be similar, yet sounds so very different.

It's definitely the same music used towards the end of act 2 of "Radio Bart" and I remember reading somewhere it was Axel F used in "Radio"...

[Veryjammy]

The Regina Monologues is patronising, stupid, disjointed, unfunny, looks like crap, features no inventiveness in the jokes and has some of the worst guest stars ever

[Imperciph]

Well the only episode I have killed by overwatching is Cape Feare. I loved it so much the first time I saw it, I kept watching once in two days. :ashamed:

Now I can't even sit through as I have almost memorised it. It used to be in my top 5 now its barely in my top 50. Instead, I appreciate Sideshow Bob Roberts more than ever now.

I am also guilty of overwatching Homer: Badman too, but its so good I like it more everytime I see it. I got an interesting story to go with it.

You see, I had taped it when it was shown in April. I had my GCE A Levels this May and June. To calm my nerves before leaving for the exam, I had made it a tradition to watch Homer: Badman everytime before an exam. It really worked and by the grace of Allah, all my exams were fantastic. :D

What do think of that ?

[IAMHOMER]

Bart's Dog Gets an F - an episode often found in people's pre-season 9 bottom 10 or so lists, but why? I would have thought that anyone who has owned (or knows someone who owns) a disobedient, destructive or not very intelligent dog (or any combination of the three) of the type SLH is, would surely empathise with the stress and strain that this kind of pet can bring to a family household, not to mention the misery it can bring to the younger family members when they have to face the prospect of their beloved animal being sent away, or worse, put down. However even if you found the SLH scenes boring or overabundant, there is also a sweet Marge/Lisa subplot, which blends in nicely with the main story unlike other similarly structured episodes. Marge and Lisa as a rule get on well, but apart from this episode we seldom see their relationship explored in much depth. Tracy Ullman's cameo as the ultra-posh English dog trainer Miss Winthrop is hilarious, and probably one of the show's best takes on the British vernacular (probably helps that she herself is British, and we Brits often like to poke fun at our own race). The characterization overall is very good - not once is Homer too stupid or unreasonable, and for once comes out with one or two sensible things, and throughout the episode it is shown that the Simpsons despite their usual differences and disputes clearly still love and respect each other and won't let a difficult pet get in the way of that.

So why does this episode constantly get a low rating?

[Homer Jay]

I think that dog episodes in general are not that good. Dog of Death is the only one that really worth mentioning. Bart's Dog Gets an F is the worst of all. None of the dog jokes really worked, and I really didn't think there was much of a plot. Homer acted much stupider than he did up to that point, and it would have been ok if it was funny, but it wasn't. The subplot never did anything for me, other than Lisa including Mr. Largo on the quilt.

[Reverend Lovejoy]

You see, I had taped it when it was shown in April. I had my GCE A Levels this May and June. To calm my nerves before leaving for the exam, I had made it a tradition to watch Homer: Badman everytime before an exam. It really worked and by the grace of Allah, all my exams were fantastic. :D



I have a simular method. Whenever I'm stressed, I usually think of my favourite scenes from episodes I've seen recently, I feel better.

[Imperciph]

Well its time for me to raise another question.

What episodes of Season 16 fell short of your expectations? I mean to ask what aspects of the show were you expecting to improve but it did not?

[H Thompson]

It didn't really improve that much at all on average so I was quite dissapointed.
It's still too irratic there's still too many bad episodes the quality of plot handling characters and humour still goes back and fourth in quality, which makes me conclude the writers aren't seeing any huge differences in quality between each episode and they think there all good, So even though 16 has been a slight improvment, it's been quite dissapointing because I've basically lost all hope of the show ever getting anywhere near classic standards.

[IAMHOMER]

Am I right in saying that most on here believe that 15 is the best post-Scully season?

[grissom]

I actually like season 16 more than most, worst episode was clearly Pranksta Rap though. Felt like it belonged in season 11, but even then it still had some good points.

[ItchyScratchy100]

I have watched the Season 6 DVD and No Homers, yes I mean this site, has been mentioned in the commentary on "Homer the Great". You can check it out yourself but to help save a lot of time, I'll tell you what they said about us as soon as I can.

-1,150th Post!-

[Handsome Peter]

I think I'll start a poll on it to see; I've heard 13 and 14 as well as 15 from members here.

You may have noticed I haven't started the poll yet; that's because my sister needed to use the computer, as she does frequently every night. This is also why I write a lot of messages in the afternoon and not "primetime", so to speak.

I'll start the poll today, assuming I can work here without disruption.

[E-I-E-I-Moe]

I think most people believe season 16 is the best post-Scully season. But I've heard all of them as being the best.I have watched the Season 6 DVD and No Homers, yes I mean this site, has been mentioned in the commentary on "Homer the Great". You can check it out yourself but to help save a lot of time, I'll tell you what they said about us as soon as I can.

-1,150th Post!-
No need to. It's been mentioned on this board.

[Adamm R)))]

I have watched the Season 6 DVD and No Homers, yes I mean this site, has been mentioned in the commentary on "Homer the Great". You can check it out yourself but to help save a lot of time, I'll tell you what they said about us as soon as I can.

-1,150th Post!-
I assume everyone must have known, would I be right in thinking the 'a.k.a. the "worst show ever weekly" forum' was added because David Mirkin suggested that was the new name?

[Binky]

A humorous photo of Matt Groening at a Rough Draft Studios Halloween party:

http://www.roughdraftstudios.com/halloween/military/RDS2002-military22-01.jpg

[Butters]

jeez, matt must be really hammered to be wearing a veil.

[bob lobster]

where the picture of rich moore in a dress

[Imperciph]

I just noticed an interesting phenomena.

Everytime a season is released on dvd two things happen :

1. Many members start to say "Best Season Ever."
2. Other members realise that season is overrated and is a vital point in the "decline"

I have browsed through all the retrospective threads.

After Season 4 was released, many members started saying "best season ever". Although few members stated they don't like it as much as they remember it and criticised it of mainly being "a collection of jokes."

Season 5 is always a controversial season around here.There are those say its the funniest season while others consider it to be a decline after 2-4. However after it was relased on dvd, more people list it as being worst of the classic seasons.

Its the same thing with Season 6. Look at the retrospective thread : People like VeryJammy and Fuzzy have realised that its not as good as they remembered while many others are hailing it as "best season ever."

This post is not meant to challenge anyone's opinions but I would like to ask
:

Wh does the same thing happen with EVERY season?

[4 Alarm Chilli]

People pay more attention to new releases, infact, I would have never seen Homer vs Patty & Selma without season 6 dvd.

Season 6 Top 6

1. Sideshow Bob Roberts
2. Bart of Darkness
3. Round Springfield
4. Lemon of Troy
5. Bart's Comet
6. I & S Land

Try doing a top 6 for season 6.

[Imperciph]

^Ok.

1.Homer:Badman
2.Sideshow Bob Roberts
3.Lisa's Wedding
4.Itchy and Scratchy Land
5.Treehouse of Horror V
6.Bart's Girlfriend

[Dr. Bartley]

1. Homer The Great
2. And Maggie Makes Three
3. Who Shot Mr. Burns? - Part One
4. Springfield Connection
5. Lemon Of Troy
6. Homer: Badman

[Ryan]

Ryan's top 6 of 6:

1. Round Springfield
2. Treehouse Of Horror 5
3. Lisa's Wedding
4. A Star Is Burns
5. Lemon of Troy
6. Bart vs Australia

[Snack Related Mishap]

MattG_Fan's top 6 of 6:

1. Lemon of Troy (Best Episode Ever)
2. Sideshow Bob Roberts
3. Homer: Badman
4. Who Shot Mr. Burns? Part One
5. Bart of Darkness
6. Two Dozen and One Greyhounds

Close but no cigar:
- The PTA Disbands

Of course, there are more that were close, but this one and greyhound are pretty much tied for me.

[Imperciph]

One thing: there are some episodes that has been elaborately discussed by the General Discussion Essay Dork krew or in indepth reviews of Chris Pfeiler.

So shouldn't a thread be created in which all these discussions are archived and the thread stickied on top of the page? Also, the latest Homer:Badman should be added too.

If a mod reads this, please consider. Or would I pm someone like Channel Surfer about this suggestion?

edit: I'll try to create one myself.I found most of these.

[Veryjammy]

On one hand I think it's a good idea - for example that link you posted to the Homer The Heretic thread from about 2 years ago was new to me and it was a pretty interesting read. The only possible downside I could see would be if people thought it wasn't worth making threads about certain episodes anymore because it looked like they had already been discussed.

[Drunk Barney]

So what's everyones predictions for the rest of the GAB lines

THoH - B
Marge's Son... A-/A
See Homer Run - B
The Last of the Red Hot... B+ (only because Cohen's writing it)

[Imperciph]

On one hand I think it's a good idea - for example that link you posted to the Homer The Heretic thread from about 2 years ago was new to me and it was a pretty interesting read. The only possible downside I could see would be if people thought it wasn't worth making threads about certain episodes anymore because it looked like they had already been discussed.

Ok. I'll pm and ask Channel Surfer about this and he'll decide what's best.

So what's everyones predictions for the rest of the GAB lines

THoH - B (promo and plot descriptions look promising)
Marge's Son... A-/A (potential classic, the "Sleeping with the Enemy of this season)
See Homer Run - B (the script worries me it maybe too over the top. Or maybe a fun gag-fest as majority of "fun" episodes of Season 16 such as Fat man and Little Boy and Mommie beerest were good)
The Last of the Red Hot... C+ (ehh....I am worried it would be dull)

[Reverend Lovejoy]

My top 6 of 6

1. Bart's girlfriend
2. Bart's comet
3. Lisa's wedding
4. And Maggie makes 3
5. The springfield connection
6. Two dozen and one greyhounds

[grissom]

I've got sort of mixed feelings toward the episodes based on descriptions. THOH sounds fairly good, Marge's Son Poisoning could go both ways, same with See Homer Run, and Last of the Red Hot Mamas isn't sounding too good so far.

[Imperciph]

Question to you guys:

Do you think amongst your favorite shows, the simpsons have the highest no. of classic episodes? If not, then which show ?

For me,the answer's yes.

[Green_Peaness]

Imperciph: Yes. There is no other show that had a classic period of seven seasons (2-8) with barely any decline, and with different feels and styles for each season to boot. My second-favorite show, Seinfeld, has a classic period of about seasons 3-6, or maybe 3-7 if I'm feeling generous. The more I watch the Simpsons, the more obvious it is to me that it's the best show ever.

Archive idea: Meh. It only takes about 10 seconds for me to use search and find earlier R&R threads. Plus, like Veryjammy said, it would probably discourage people from making new threads. Personally, I don't care if there are old R&R threads unless they're newer than about 3 months. Usually, I feel that I have something new to say and I want to see the opinion of newer members, but that's only me.

Top 6 of season 6:

1. Homer: Badman - A+
2. Lisa's Wedding - A+
3. Sideshow Bob Roberts - A+
4. Homer the Great - A+
5. Treehouse of Horror V - A
6. Lemon of Troy - A

Btw, before buying season 6 I hadn't watched any season 6 episodes. I didn't change my mind, but I was fairly disappointed. It's about my fifth-favorite season.

[Homer Jay]

Question to you guys:

Do you think amongst your favorite shows, the simpsons have the highest no. of classic episodes? If not, then which show ?

For me,the answer's yes.
I really don't know. My guess is no actually, The Simpsons probably has about 50-60 classic episodes, but I think that The West Wing probably has a few more, basically the entire first four seasons are classics to me. At it's peak, there was never another show on par with it.

But I haven't really counted how many episodes I would call classics for either show, so I can't give a yes or no answer.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Yes I'd say so, the only other show that even comes close would be Seinfeld with two episodes that I don't think a single person I know hasn't seen: The Contest and The Soup Nazi.

[Stratman]

After hearing about this site on the season 6 commentaries, I thought I'd check it out. Right now I feel a little out of my depth because I don't know nearly as much about 'The Simpsons' as some other shows, but I guess this is the place to learn.

Top 6 Of Season 6
1. Homer Badman
2. Sideshow Bob Roberts
3. Lemon Of Troy
4. Lisa On Ice
5. Homer The Great
6. Bart's Comet

On the subject of consistency, what about 'Frasier'? It did win the Best Comedy Emmy 5 years running, although after Joe Keenan and Christopher Lloyd left it went to shit.

I don't really know if this question relates to 'The Simpsons', but does anyone know who does the voice of the behind bars Southern Rooster, or Kentucky Tried Chicken as I like to call him? I don't know if it was 'The Simpsons' or 'Futurama'?

[SideshowTim]

Question to you guys:

Do you think amongst your favorite shows, the simpsons have the highest no. of classic episodes? If not, then which show ?

For me,the answer's yes.
yes, easily, however a better estimation would probably be a percentage of classic episodes though since the simpsons has so many more episodes than most shows. the number of classic simpsons episodes sometimes outweighs the number of episodes in another television show.

[IAMHOMER]

On the subject of topics that don't really warrant a full thread, that woman who is sitting next to Carl in Homer's class in Secrets of a Succesful Marriage, is she a friend/relative of him? Or was she just making friendly conversation?

[grissom]

Out of all my favorite shows, Simpsons definitely does have the highest number of classics.

As for the question about the woman sitting next to Carl, I have no idea. I'd imagine she isn't related. Although they've never revealed anything about Carl's family, so I suppose it's possible.

[H Thompson]

Wasn't Carl next to some blonde woman at the retirement party in Marge get's a job. I rember noticing that and wonderd why people here hadn't discussed it to death.

[Snake_aka_Jailbird]

Was he just next to her or was he with her?

[Veryjammy]

I was just thinking about Marge's Son Poisoning and it made me wonder - has there ever been a substantial Lisa/Marge plot? It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad Marge and She Used To Be My Girl sort of count but they aren't really about their relationship, so much as Marge getting jealous of someone else. There must be one I've forgotten surely?

[SideshowTim]

the subplot in sunday cruddy sunday could sort of qualify.

[Imperciph]

I was just thinking about Marge's Son Poisoning and it made me wonder - has there ever been a substantial Lisa/Marge plot? It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad Marge and She Used To Be My Girl sort of count but they aren't really about their relationship, so much as Marge getting jealous of someone else. There must be one I've forgotten surely?

Sadly it dates all the way back to Moaning Lisa if you don't want to count the horrific "Marge and Lisa are bored while jerkass Homer is out on a wacky adeventure" subplots of Sunday Cruddy Sunday and Maximum Homerdrive.

[Veryjammy]

There's real potential there then imo. In See Homer Run it looks like we're going to have the millionth incarnation of 'Homer disappoints Lisa', why not have at least one involving Lisa and Marge. I think that there is the opportunity for more depth with that relationship since Marge is, imo, a more complex character.

[Imperciph]

There's real potential there then imo. In See Homer Run it looks like we're going to have the millionth incarnation of 'Homer disappoints Lisa', why not have at least one involving Lisa and Marge. I think that there is the opportunity for more depth with that relationship since Marge is, imo, a more complex character.

In fact, the "Homer disappoints Lisa" had been perfectly covered by classics such as Lisa's Substitute and Lisa's Wedding.Even Homer and Bart had "I-do'h bot" two seasons and we have marge and bart story next week.

Lisa and Marge is the OFF relationship that has had the least exposition.Its time about time they considered doing one rather than another "Homer and marge's marriage on the rocks".

[Veryjammy]

Yeah, and considering there were also great 'Homer disappoints Lisa' stories in Lisa's Pony, Lisa The Greek and to a lesser extent The Dad Who Knew Too Little, I really think they should lay off them for a bit, much like the 'marriage on the rocks' stories as you said.

[Veryjammy]

Oh dear god. Today, for the first time ever, I saw The Parent Rap and THOH 12. I've been quite cynical about the Jean output recently, but this really put things in perspective. Two of the worst episodes I have ever seen. I forgot how crude and obnoxious some of his episodes were. Truly dreadful. Homer was in some of the worst form I have ever seen him in in The Parent Rap.

[Green_Peaness]

How can a non-Jean episode put the Jean era into perspective? Do you mean THOH 13?

[Veryjammy]

Well what I mean is, I've been a bit disheartened by some of the recent Jean episodes and the fact that there doesn't seem to be much improvement. But then I watched those two episodes (and I did mean THOH 12 btw) and I remembered how bad things used to be and I suddenly felt so grateful that Jean is now in charge. This is quite hyperbolic but I was truly shocked by The Parent Rap in particular, just a staggeringly bad episode.

edit - after THOH 16 I'm suddenly less grateful :laugh:

[BonerLand]

Did anyone know that Tress MacNeille sang on one of Weird Al Yankovic's very early albums? She sang, as well as performed in the music video for "Ricky" as Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball).

I actually did know that, I'm a pretty big Wierd Al fan :) But thanks for pointing that out, it's a really good bit of Simpsons Trivia.

"Ricky" is on the TV Album btw. But actually that album is a compilation so I can't remember the one it originated on.

[Drunk Barney]

Wow, may I just say it's great to see TGD flying back on track and, thanks to these members, which have helped it!

Thanks to IAMHOMER, Imperciph, Matt_G Fan, Cartoonetwork, FuzzyWuzzyWuzaBear, Drunk Barney, Homer_Thompson, Channel Surfer, Triforce Bun, Veryjammy, Greased Scotsman (UK thread) TerroK and Grissom for helping to create great decent discussion. And as always some great Season 17 info work by Binky, Simpsons_Forever and of Vox N. Sorry if I've missed any out, and if your really upset drop me a line;)

These are the members that post frequently here (recently) and imo make a great contribution. Keep it up!

EDIT: I also see a lot of these members, are new or newish, which of course is good to see:D

[Snack Related Mishap]

Wow, may I just say it's great to see TGD flying back on track and, thanks to the member, which has helped it!

Thanks to Matt_G Fan, the sole man behind NHC

Well, I don't think I can take all the credit, but thank you Drunk Barney.

Anyway, I have a question for VeryJammy or anyone who knows. How were you able to tell what Bill Oakley voted on the poll, when it doesn't show their names?

[H Thompson]

It does if you click view poll results. some polls are made public, some aren't.

[Imperciph]

Wow, may I just say it's great to see TGD flying back on track and, thanks to these members, which have helped it!

Thanks to IAMHOMER, Imperciph , Matt_G Fan, Cartoonetwork, FuzzyWuzzyWuzaBear, Drunk Barney Homer_Thompson, Channel Surfer, Triforce Bun, Veryjammy, Greased Scotsman (UK thread) TerroK and Grissom for helping to create great decent discussion. And as always some great Season 17 info work by Binky, Simpsons_Forever and of Vox N. Sorry if I've missed any out, and if your really upset drop me a line;)

These are the members that post frequently here (recently) and imo make a great contribution. Keep it up!

Thanks for the mention. Appreciated. :D

[Veryjammy]

Awww thanks D_B :) I think GD went through a bit of a barren spell for a couple of months, probably just because there were no new episodes etc, but there have been some interesting discussions recently, and some good new members as well.

[Drunk Barney]

Sorry, mine wasn't meant to be bigger, meant to be smaller (small that normal size). I feel like a right cockey bastard. Oh well! I'll edit.

[Simpsons Forever!]

Thanks DB, although it's the cooperation of all the members of the board who have made it flourish, not just a few.

[Imperciph]

Requesting anyone to please check out my Radio bart thread, please. :D

[Snack Related Mishap]

Haha, I just read DB's edit wrong, and this is what I thought it said:

EDIT: I also see a lot of these members, are jew or jewish, which of course is good to see:D

I agree, go diversity!

[Imperciph]

In Itchy and Scratchy: The Movie ,an older Bart is showed to become a judge in the future.

In Lisa's Wedding, we see that he is a demolition man but later reveals that actually he planning to go law school.

Its some nice continuity ,don't you think?

[Simpsons Forever!]

Yeah, but Maude appears in the same episode, which should have ruled out her death in Season 11.

[Imperciph]

Yeah, but Maude appears in the same episode, which should have ruled out her death in Season 11.

Its not the same thing. The writers made the decision to write off Maude because Maggie Roswell decided to leave the show.

And relying to Mr. Scully for continuity eh? :uhh:

[H Thompson]

Mirkin obviously put that in, you can tell because he was so insistent to it on the commentary to Jim Brooks.

But lets not get into discussing non continuity because it's not intresting.

[Imperciph]

Ok. Comparison time:

We are four episodes into Season 17. How does Season 17 compare with Season 16 so far? I am yet to finish "getting" ;) THOH XVI so I'll do it later.

edit: In that case, just compare the first 4 FABF holdovers with the 4 GABF holdvers that have aired so far.

[Simpsons Forever!]

I think we can hardly compare the two seasons yet - only holdovers from last year's production have aired. Let's wait until the HABF's start airing before comparing the two.

[Butters]

i've come up with a basic mathematical equation to resolve my thoughts on the executive producers:
david mirkin² x mike scully½ = al jean and mike reiss (26-32)² x oakley and weinstein¹

[grissom]

I'd say sixteen and seventeen are about level with each other so far. 17 is actually doing a little better.

[Robertuybrush]

Season 16 arrives AT LAST to Spain!

November 19: Treehouse Of Horror XV.

[Imperciph]

Damn, snpp.com is not loading for me, I wanted to do a poll.

[Adamm R)))]

I had that problem a minute ago. Try using the www., it worked for me.

[Snack Related Mishap]

Hey, just out of curiosity does anyone know when DXC was born? I am interested in working in the writing business(both print and film), and since he is my second favorite screenwriter(he's my first if you don't count Matt Groening) I am interested in finding out how young he was when he started.

[4 Alarm Chilli]

The Great Money Caper is on tonight. Good thing too, I never got to properly see it the first time.

[IAMHOMER]

By the way, does anyone know of a 'your bottom 10' thread or something similar that he/she can link to? I wanted to find out what the general consensus on here as to what are the worst Simpsons episodes, and whether The Computer Wore Menace Shoes and The Great Money Caper are included, and I don't want to start a separate thread on a topic that's probably been done to death. Thanks if any of you could help.

[TheFlandersMan]

Eh, Just do it.

[Drunk Barney]

Not sure where to put this but Veryjammy you need to clear some space in your PM folder. (can you pm when you've cleared some space, so I don't have to keep checking. And that doesn't mean getting rid of one and pming me saying your ready!!:D ;))

Also, I'm sure some of you have already seen this via Google News, but if not The Simpsons was voted by 10-16yr olds as the best program in the uk with Little Britain coming 2nd!

[Imperciph]

By the way, does anyone know of a 'your bottom 10' thread or something similar that he/she can link to? I wanted to find out what the general consensus on here as to what are the worst Simpsons episodes, and whether The Computer Wore Menace Shoes and The Great Money Caper are included, and I don't want to start a separate thread on a topic that's probably been done to death. Thanks if any of you could help.

Here you go: Bottom 50 worst episodes (http://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?t=28811)

Also, I'm sure some of you have already seen this via Google News, but if not The Simpsons was voted 10-16yr olds best program in the uk with Little Britain coming 2nd!

That's great news. :)

[Dr. Bartley]

Also, I'm sure some of you have already seen this via Google News, but if not The Simpsons was voted 10-16yr olds best program in the uk with Little Britain coming 2nd!

That's some good news about Simpsons. :D

[IAMHOMER]

Here you go: Bottom 50 worst episodes (http://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?t=28811)

Phew! That was a close one, no 'Bart's Dog Gets an F', thank god. :D

Good to see A Tale of Two Springfields at #18 :), but why are Call of the Simpsons, Some Enchanted Evening, Days of Wine and D'ohses in there when Another Simpsons Clip Show is nowhere to be seen. Do clips shows not count?

[4 Alarm Chilli]

How did Behind the Laughter get in that list?

[Drunk Barney]

Becuase it sucks. Spoils the real life feel to the Simpsons.

[Imperciph]

Phew! That was a close one, no 'Bart's Dog Gets an F', thank god. :D

Good to see A Tale of Two Springfields at #18 :), but why are Call of the Simpsons, Some Enchanted Evening, Days of Wine and D'ohses in there when Another Simpsons Clip Show is nowhere to be seen. Do clips shows not count?

Is there any point of including clip shows? The Simpsons staff come up with those only due to time constraints. :)

[IAMHOMER]

Is there any point of including clip shows? The Simpsons staff come up with those only due to time constraints. :)

Well, given that purely based on their own merits I'd actually put the first clip show ahead of at least three other Season 4 episodes and the second on the bottom rung of Season 6 by a mile, I think that clip shows deserve as much consideration as normal Simpsons episodes, whether they be good or bad.

[Imperciph]

It seems my long-ass review of Saturdays of thunder got wasted. I'll lay off making these threads for a while I guess.

[HOMR]

Bottom 50 worst episodes (http://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?t=28811)
That's only like 3 people who are still here that voted on that list.
Someone should make a new.

[IAMHOMER]

Sorry Imperciph, I'd love to comment, but unfortunately Saturdays of Thunder happened to be one of the many episodes cancelled during the cricketing season. I hope Channel 4 plan to show it again.

I know how you feel - I was hoping to have got more mileage out of my Bart of Darkness thread....

[Drunk Barney]

Well, one good thing from having little replies, is that it probably means that the people who usaully comment on it agree with you and feel they have nothing to add. it's best to start threads that you feel people may challenged. As I say, it's great to see new members, post detailed reviewed threads. And hopefully you can feel in people who have left or hardly post any more, (e.g I think, Veryjammy looks like filling in Jimbo's place) I don't a think anyone will replace his humour though. I also notice people like Tibor, DtB and Crotis Jivefunk don't post much. So as I keep saying great to get some good new members in. And if these members return to how much they used to post then that's twice as much fun!!

Sorry, if I keep banging on about this, this wasn't actually meant to be a rant!

Veryjammy- I'm still waiting for you to clear some space in your pm folder..!

[Drunk Barney]

Another thing is I'm looking for sober drunk Barney images, for part of pic/sig, that can be used so that paint can be used on it. I've only got 2 so far, and both don't work. Any help, or any ideas?

[grissom]

You can get frame grabs from www.homerize.com, they also have some images. www.lardlad.com, www.duffzone.co.uk and www.capefeare.com also might have some

[Imperciph]

I give the members browsing this lounge the cumbersome and difficult task of naming several emotional Scully Era episodes. After you have named them, I'll have a poll on the Voting Booth to determine what fans consider to be the most emotional Scully episode. (Or anyone else can do it too ;) )

[Drunk Barney]

HOMR, Bart, the Mother, Lost our Lisa and Faith Off. Wow that was really pushing it towards the end, have I missed any?

Thanks G but I still can't find anything.:(

Another one I'm trying to get is Barney holding up Maggie in "Springfield". Again I can't find anything!

[H Thompson]

Days of wine and D'ohses and I forget what it's called Marge and the criminal artist one could be considerd.

[Simpsons Forever!]

Pokey Mom (the criminal artist/Marge episode) never struck me as being emotional.
There's always the emotion in Alone Again, Natura-Diddly.

[Snack Related Mishap]

There's always the emotion in Alone Again, Natura-Diddly.


Hahahahaha, stop it, you're killing me!

[Drunk Barney]

I'd still consider it to be emotoinal, or atleast an attempted emotional episode.

[Simpsons Forever!]

Yeah, I was in tears when Flanders said "I can't belive my last words to Maude were "No foot-longs.""
.......I am being sarcastic.....


It was an emotion based episode - just a failed one.

[HOMR]

Same with Homer Simpson In Kidney Trouble

[Drunk Barney]

Yes I was getting scared there SF!...!

[Butters]

I think, Veryjammy looks like filling in Jimbo's place
no one can ever replace jimbo, you heartless monster! :'(

also, i dig how nobody likes me anymore because i don't visit much and post nerdy reviews. show's how materialistic the lot of you are.


"No foot-longs."
i'm flattered that they'd make reference to me, even if it is in a back-alley bus-stop quality episode.

[Drunk Barney]

if you read the bit below, I said no-one will replace his humour, though I think Vj can be just as good as far as expressing his opinions is concerned. Another person, who hasn't been on in a while is Hydro. He hasn't be on NHC for months, infact:(

[H Thompson]

also, i dig how nobody likes me anymore because i don't visit much and post nerdy reviews. show's how materialistic the lot of you are.


Oh that's not why :D

[Butters]

goddamnit, i told dorkus malorkus that those photos were for his eyes only...

[IAMHOMER]

BTW, I am thinking of starting a poll on the Voting Booth on what is the best political satire on the Simpsons. I can only draw from seasons 1-6 because that's where the bulk of my Simpsons viewing comes from.

But anyway the episodes I can think of from that period which deal heavily with political issues are:

Two Cars in Every Garage, Three Eyes on Every Fish
Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington
Sideshow Bob Roberts

Can anyone recall any other episodes in a similar vein which I've forgotten?

[H Thompson]

Much Apu About Nothing

[Imperciph]

Ok, here's my final list of Scully episodes with emotional conflicts:

This Little Wiggy
Lost Our Lisa
Natural Born Kissers (its a Homer and Marge episode so I took it)
Bart, the Mother
Lisa Gets an "A" (it does feature an emotional conflict for Lisa)
Make Room For Lisa (it does attempt to explain why things don't work out for Homer and Lisa, even in the most unacceptable manner of telling us to sympathise with jerkass Homer)
Hello Gutter, Hello Fadder (Homer tries to bond with Maggie)
Days of Wine and D'oh'ses (tries to flesh out Barney's character)
Insane Clown Poppy (Krusty bonds with his girl)
HOMR
I'm Goin' to Praiseland (shows Ned dealing with Maude's death)

If you disagree with my choices or if you want any more to be added please say so. :)

I'll make the poll tomorrow. And also grade every episode that'll in the poll rather than just mentioning the one you voted.

j/k ...I'll be grateful if you even show up to vote. :uhh:

[H Thompson]

Lisa the treehugger possibly.

But I think your taking this a bit too seriously it's just a little poll.

[4 Alarm Chilli]

I'd like to draw the topic to "She of Little Faith", one of the many underated greats from Jean. Great Lisa epiosde, shows her in great characterization, and is Marge with trying to force her to go back to Christianity. Loved the begining with the rocket launch, a good start. Any views?

[Green_Peaness]

^Yeah, it's a pretty good episode. If you watch the season 13 holdovers in a row and then this episode, it's like a breath of fresh air. Homer is immediately more tolerable and the episode is not heavy handed iirc. I'm a little meh on the Richard Gere appearance and I think there were some dull parts; I'll have to rewatch. For now: B

[Gibbles]

I really liked this episode when it first came on, the characters are funny, Homer's not so much a jerk (excluding the weird bacon thing), and the random Christmas worked in with the story well. Funniest bit was when all the family got side tracked when looking for Lisa. One of the better of that season 4/5

[grissom]

I really like She Of Little Faith too. One of my favorites of the season, really underrated.

[Patriot]

She of Little Faith is a underrated episode and I don't see why poeple don't like it as much as some other Jean episodes.

[Butters]

because generally it was just an unentertaining episode. sure, you've got a good laugh here and there, but it was overall rather bland with some predictable jokes and a bunch of stuff that was just dumb.

the whole first act with the rocket stuff had so little to do with anything, it feels like your wasting seven minutes just to see explosion after explosion and some creepy eyebrow jokes no one really gives a shit about. maybe in the entire thing there is, what, two jokes or something that don't require you to suffer add or some eyebrow fetish?

act two is where most the good moments of the episode are to be had, but generally it's still rather weak. some jokes could've really worked, but were either fleshed out too much (stuff like the last supper photos). the longer the scene is at the bastardised church, the more it drags on and pushes the envelop. yeah, you might get shits and giggles from seeing stuff like a change deposit at first, but when it keeps hammering how commercialised the place is to the ground, and you see there is a stamp guy, you really don't know whether to laugh out of pity or complain about it.

my main problem with the episode is after lisa leaves the church there is an array of bad parenting and such. fine, they can feel free to have marge and homer want lisa to become a christian again, but spying on her prayers and putting an angel on her bowie tree is taking it a bit far. tricking her into thinking she had a pony was very lame, too. and the fact the dragged the joke on at the end with lisa questioned marge about it was just boring. we get the fucking joke, she doesn't have a pony, you don't need to have two characters walk down an endless hallway bantering on and on about it, repeating the same type of comeback of trying to change the subject. oh, and one of my least favourite moments in the history of the show is in this episode:
"butter up that bacon, boy."

had the third act received a little cleaning up, and the first act was compiled with stuff besides explosions, the episode could have been much better.

i think i gave the episode a c+ or b-. i don't know, 'cause no one really gives two shits about my opinion. i'm just on a simpsons message board so i feel more attractive..

[H Thompson]

I liked when Channel Surfer compared this to father son and holy guest, pointing out their basically the exact opposite in where they succeed and fail yet they ultimatley turn out to be equally enjoyable as one another.

[Darunia]

I posted it in another thread, but figured it might fit better here.

I'm probably the only one who likes the Great Money Caper. Watched it again recently and I couldn't help but laughing at a lot of the jokes, realizing most of them are zany and stupid. As a fan you know everything that's wrong with the episode character and story-wise, but on second or third viewings I tend to let go of that and just see what happens. Enjoying wacky humor of the Scully era is like flipping a coin for me, in some instances I like it (e.g this episode), another time I find it dull (KTAAR). The ending sure is random, but it isn't the first time the writers didn't know to how end an episode. Burns, Baby Burns is the first one that comes to mind. We've seen a winking fish before too, but here I found the closing shot of the winking sturgeon actually funny because it was such a 'screw you' to everything the show had been years before, after a rollercoaster of nonsense.

Don't you guys have this sometimes?