Rate & Review: "My Mother the Carjacker" (EABF18) [Archive]

ShadowBun

11-09-2003, 05:42 PM

Act 1: Started off a little iffy, with some mediocre writing in spots. I really liked Homer's attempts at finding a good headline, but the stuff before that involving Marge's T-shirt kinda dragged and didn't really have many funny gags. The table scene where Homer is showing the various headlines was good. I liked how they showed throughout the episode how much Mona meant to her son, and that Homer would do everything in his power to protect her. The first act, however, wasn't terribly funny overall. Nice idea with the first-letter thing. 3/5

Act 2: It picks up a bit here...for some inexplicable reason, I loved that section of the courtroom scene where Homer and the rest of the people are just staring at each other. Is Gil still their lawyer? Mel was pretty funny, but I think it went on for a bit too long (like many things in the episode)...I kinda liked the fact that it was Mel, though. Burns and the ether wasn't too good, but he went back to his classic evil self by the time he arrested Mona at the steps. I could actually empathize with Homer by the end of the episode, but one less stop and go gag would've ended it better (AGAIN, something going on for too long!). Good montage scenes. 4/5

Act 3: As opposed to many new episodes, the THIRD act of this episode was actually the best! The writing was smoother, the plot flow was good, and a chase scene actually WORKED. Again, I thought they did a really good job with Homer's emotions when Mona's bus went off the cliff. The funeral was just too short for my liking, but...by the time Homer was speaking to his mom's casket, something about it all made me feel really depressed. I thought they actually killed her, and the show suddenly had a dark overtone. I may be alone in this, but I loved the last scene (IMOK), with the family's reactions (funny Grimey grave). The entire death thing made me sad, really, and that was quite impressive (the last episode to do that was the last act of The Frying Game). The episode ended sweetly though, with Mona's "Homer, your mom loves you" message...it could've been a little warmer, but good ending overall. 5/5

Overall: The last act saves this episode with some good emotion and good lines. 4/5 or maybe even 4.5/5...somewhere between B+ and A-. It doesn't ruin the first Mother Simpson episode, but it's not as good as it. Good premiere, just a little uneven in quality throughout.

EDIT: Yeah, it would've ended better with just "Homer, your mother loves you" --CREDITS-- Oh well, at least they put that line in.

Wavy Gravy

11-09-2003, 05:43 PM

No post-Scully episode can ever top 3F06 "Mother Simpson".

BUT THIS EPISODE CAME DAMN CLOSE! This is undoubtedly the best thing I've seen since EABF17 "Moe Baby Blues" last season. The episode started great - I expected Marge's T-shirt bit to get tedious, but it worked fine. Some superb animation when Homer searches for headlines, and a very funny bit with Bart in the car. Very touching reunion, and more funny stuff at the diner. Trial was good (though it'll probably be a prime target for syndication cuts), and Sideshow Mel will undoubtedly become the episode bio for this one when we see Season 15 in a guide book. The montage of Homer and Mona together was hilarious, and I really felt sad for Homer when Mona got arrested again. I din't think they'd be able to pull off real emotion in this one like they did last time, but the scene at the kitchen table nearly moved me to tears. Homer hijacking the bus was handled well, and Mona faking her death is exactly the way I expected this episode to play out. The ending was as close to perfect as it could get without ripping off 3F06 at all.

Overall, an absolutely superb start to the 2003-2004 season. To paraphrase myself a year ago tomorrow, "It's the start of Round 15, and the champ is comin' out swinging!"

5/5

doyle

11-09-2003, 05:45 PM

Well, I got what I expected. It wasn't a Mother Simpson by any stretch, but it was a solid, above average episode. The episode's beginning left me skeptical as there was a lack of creativity with Homer and Marge fighting over a meaningless t-shirt. Nevertheless, the Beautiful Mind homage was done very well and Homer's meeting with his mother was also well done. The first act was well developed and got the episode going and the plot moving, while providing plenty of laughs. As it went to commercial, I was still a bit concerned about where it would go from there.

The second half started out well, though. The courtroom scene was good, providing amusing appearances by several minor characters. The scenes with Homer and his mother were touching, and that aspect was done every bit as well as it was done in Mother Simpson, IMO. Mona's capture saw some good, old fashioned, evil Burns, which is what everyone had been hoping for.

The third act brought it down a bit, but just a tiny bit. The parts everyone had bene worried about such as the actual carjacking, weren't particularly wacky and didn't subtract from the episode. The other prisoners were hilarious and helped the scene work. The "death" was a bit lame, but once again, it didn't bother me. The ending closed the book well, and while a tad abrupt, ended with a touching moment rather than a failed gag, which would have been much more detrimental.

Overall, the humor was excellent. The characterization was good as well, with the exception of Marge at the very beginning. But Homer was never in Jerkass mode, Mona was the same person she was in Mother Simpson, and Burns was a tyrant again. The pacing was about as good as it could be. A couple issues bogged it down (Mother's reason for returning, Homer taking Bart to the overpass with him, Homer's reaction upon seeing his mother) weren't significant, and that equation adds up to a good result. Not as good as Mother Simpson, but damn good.

Grade: B+

nathan

11-09-2003, 05:45 PM

It was a fairly average episode especialy for a premier. It could have been really great but it had some terrible jokes. Homers peeing under the overpass and the whole thing with his moms casket was just awfull. There where some great jokes to make up for it though. The 60's montage rocked my socks and Homer kicking frank Grimes headstone was great. The ending seemed a little off, I dont know why. Im glad they didnt kill her off..very glad, the ending just had a wierd feal to it. All and all I give it a 7/10 or a B-.

NoOneFamous

11-09-2003, 05:46 PM

Right now, I'm not quite sure what to think of this episode. I really loved the premise and story. This is the best season premier in a few years (not that thats saying much), and it was great seeing Homer's mother again. However, there were still flaws...

This episode suffored from the same problems many episodes these days do: the plot going a million miles an hour, too much shock humor and "zing!" -type jokes, general annoying attitude of Homer, etc.

There were also a lot of childish, out of place jokes that I thought spoiled several spots of the episode, such as the two cops teasing Homer by stopping the car as his mother was being taken away again, and Homer losing his own mother's casket (even though she wasn't in it). It all further supports the theory that they can no longer do a serious moment on the show without spoiling it with a stupid joke, because heaven forbid there not be a joke every 5 seconds, yadda yadda yadda.

The pacing of the end was a little awkward and quick. I think the ending would have worked better if Homer had found that 2nd message from his mom in the newspaper, although I guess its safe to assume that he will later on. Also, Tomacco is right, the last few lines of Mother Simpson were lame and out of place - clam chowder? It would have worked much better if she had just said something similar to what she did in "Mother Simpson."

Ok, my complaints aside, it was overall a good episode. 4/5

On a side note, can you believe "Mother Simpson" first aired EIGHT years ago??

eric

11-09-2003, 05:46 PM

3/5, nothing special. I personally didn't care for Mother Simpson's rushed explanation at the end... and I saw that coming anyway since finishing the episode with her death would've been way too depressing. Didn't think the episode would wrap up with an explanation like that though... meh.

Many chuckles and a couple LOL moments in the episode however, such as the 19th century wood etching of Burns and Homer going down the highway exit ramp on his bike.

also, a nice nod to "a beautiful mind" with homer going through the papers

Spooner

11-09-2003, 05:47 PM

Well, I never remember anything. The beginning? I don't remember it. The end? Distant memory. But I remember laughing. Not all the time. But a lot. B+

Mafia

11-09-2003, 05:47 PM

5/5

I probably enjoyed the first act the most with the Beautiful Mind parody, Homer writing to movies, Mona meeting Homer and Bart... For second act, I liked the 60's montage, Gil as lawyer again, Judge's comment about his wife, Sideshow Mel, Mona and Homer spending time together, Homer chasing after the car (it got old the last time though). Third act was probably the weakest. Mona's "death" was not done well at all. They shouldn't have had any jokes about it. I liked Homer kicking over Grimey's grave. I agree with Tomacco on how it should have ended with the HOMER instead of talking about her unbelievable escape and clam chowder.

Cole

11-09-2003, 05:52 PM

The pacing of the episode was pretty insane. I feel exhausted from just watching it. Nothing could sink in and I often felt as if I couldn't enjoy a moment because another plot twist was about to be introduced. The pace could have been slowed down by cutting out some of the unnecessary t-shirt scenes at the beginning and overused jokes about the sixties. Glenn Close was decent, but gave nothing close to her performance in "Mother Simpson." Not a bad episode, but not a memorable one either. I didn’t think the erection joke was in that poor taste. You act as if you’ve never heard the word used before. These are the types of headline jokes you see on television, so it wasn’t that absurd. Some good use of music to set up the 60’s vibe and some pretty good jokes and gags spread throughout. There was so much going on that I need to watch it several more times before giving it a final grade. I'd give it a 3.5 or a 4 out of 5 right now.

bmac

11-09-2003, 05:55 PM

Very meh episode indeed. Had a pretty clever plot, gets credit for that but other than that meh. Really wasn't all that funny, only laughed out loud a couple of times (Homer writing to Die Hard, Gil's appearance, a few one liners). Wasn't impressed in the least, 6.5/10.

Mr. Plow

11-09-2003, 05:55 PM

An average episode with some good laughs and very little groans. The Beautiful Mind-esque parody was done fairly well at the beginning and at the end. 3/5

Kefka

11-09-2003, 05:56 PM

That episode was fucking lame.

ShadowBun

11-09-2003, 05:57 PM

You know, this episode would've REALLY benefitted if they just took a few things out...it had all the makings of a great ep, but it was bogged down with enough low points to make it only a very good ep. I think Homer putting garbage in his mom's casket, for one, completely takes away from the emotion in the scene, and is pretty disrespectful. Take out the last stop-and-go with the cops in the car, take out a couple lines from Mel, take out the out-of-place Lou and Eddie kiss joke, and trim the T-shirt stuff. If they did that, they'd have one of the best episodes in years.

Ah, even so it was really quite good...I notice I'm one of the few that really liked the ending. Poor Homer.

Moleman...Hans

11-09-2003, 05:58 PM

Great episode especially compared the episodes of the past 5 seasons or so. 4/5. It lost a point for the crappy jokes like the errection bit and the t-shirt thing. The ending was a great Futurama-like ending.

Tomacco

11-09-2003, 05:59 PM

I thought the episode's pacing was fine actually.
I thought bringing back the newspapers at the end tied it up really well too. The only time I found it went even slightly off track was when she was free and hanging out with the family. But that ended fast and went back to the jail element of the plot.

I thought "Brake My Wife, Please", "Dude, Where's My Ranch", "Strong Arms of the Ma", and "Helter Shelter" from last year were all more awkwardly paced.

squishee lady

11-09-2003, 06:00 PM

Not a bad episode. It was one of the more heartarming episodes, and it did have some funny moments (maggie and the rat, maggie at the bathroom door, the clip with bart and marge shown in the preview,, lisa and Bart's courtroom spat to name a few) but there wasn't anything that particularly had me in stiches. Last night I laughed alot at She of Little faith which I have seen many times alot more than at the Fresh jokes in this ep. Ofcourse, that could be because I was watching that with people and I saw MMTCJ solo, and stuff is always funnier when watched in groups. All in all a solid B+.

Tomacco

11-09-2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Kefka
That episode was fucking lame.

Hmm. I agree with your first argument, but your second one seems a little one-sided. Maybe if you altered your thesis, it might make a little more sense. But overall, that's a pretty well-constructed argument.

Mafia

11-09-2003, 06:05 PM

i take it that Wiggum seems to have had a change of heart on Mona from the last time they met.

Toxic Monkey

11-09-2003, 06:05 PM

no. just no. it was horrible, all over the place. the first act sucked completely (the whole tshirt thing?). the ending was way out there, though it was funny. no sir i did not like it. only two memorbale points in this ep: the ladies singing clash and homer kicking over grimey's tombstone.

voting 2/5.

Firewalker

11-09-2003, 06:05 PM

I loved it. I had my doubts that they could pull a story like this off, but to my surprise, they did it very well. There were good laughs ("This is America! Justice should favor the rich!"). There was great emotion. But...the emotion is somewhat lessened by inane jokes (the end of the second act just ruins the whole scene). The ending itself should have been more like Mother Simpson, but it does well. Very good, let's hope for more of the same this season.
4/5.

Tibor

11-09-2003, 06:10 PM

Pretty good. Pacing problems in the first act, and both the way Homer found out about his Mother and the way she was arrested (the second time) felt contrived. It should have ended with just the freeze on the newspaper article, would have been far more effective and intriguing. But it had humor and heart, and I quite enjoyed it. Homer chasing the after his mom and the Feds stopping and teasing him was one of those really classic lump-in-your-throat/hilarious moments. B/B+

SpongeBob No Pants

11-09-2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Mafia
i take it that Wiggum seems to have had a change of heart on Mona from the last time they met.

Ha, i thought the same thing

it would have been better had just Lou and Eddie found her

FlamingMeaux

11-09-2003, 06:18 PM

It was ok. Certainly, it wasn't a laugh out loud kind of episode, but I appreciated another visit with Mother Simpson. It's odd, while I always think I want more intelligent episodes, I laugh at the "erection" and "Anita Bonghit" jokes. Characterization of Burns was awful.

3.5/5

Jolly Bengali

11-09-2003, 06:19 PM

Phew. And there I thought this season would be bad. Shrugging off last week's disastrous TOH ep, this season's official premiere came as a wonderful relief. I was doubtful about whether the show was still firing on all cylinders, but it's clear after this one that "The Simpsons" is still capable of being utterly fantastic. The story is quite simple - Homer's mother coming back, and the results of this. It's the perfect set-up for a tight, focused plot and serves up opportunities for a bunch of great laughs, which are fully exploited. The first act alone had more laughs in it than more than half of the newer episodes, and the barrage barely let up in the rest of the episode. There weren't any of the awkward failed gags that pop up too frequently, and there was even room for some extra satire and parody. "A Beautiful Mind" is excellently mocked with Homer looking at the news articles, which was a treat. The jokes skewering the 60's were also well-done. Minor characters were even managed to be worked in to this mostly family-centered episode, to great effect. Glenn Close, as well, deserves a lot of praise for successfully making Homer's mother as funny and sympathetic a character as she was in this episode's predecessor, "Mother Simpson". All in all, there was barely a thing wrong with this episode. There were times when some jokes went on a tad too long, and a few scenes that could have been cut or lengthened, but those are the tiniest of nitpicks. The only major flaw was the ending - it should have gone to credits with the touching ending of Homer believing his mom was still alive. Glenn Close's quickly delivered epilogue was rushed, pointless, and unfunny, but ironically it's hastily-thrown-together quality means it goes by too quickly to scar the episode too badly. As you can tell, I'm quite happy with this episode, and I hope that the rest of the season stays up to its standards. Grade: A-

Pasted in, whatever. I never seem to agree with anybody.

tim

11-09-2003, 06:19 PM

that was one of the best episodes i've seen in a long time. sure, a few bad jokes here and there, but it nearly measured up with mother simpson.

Overall, i give it an A-

doyle

11-09-2003, 06:19 PM

I am surprised to see all the negative reviews so far. The only good point that's been made towards the episode being weak was the pacing, which I'll admit was a little awry at some points. But look at the positives. I find it hard to believe that people watched this episode without laughing. There were several times I laughed aloud while there were maybe one or two jokes I groaned at, those being the Chief Wiggum line about Eddie and Lou kissing and the feds starting and stopping the car. I saw some of the emotion sacrificed for jokes, but I certainly don't think it was ever forced and there was indeed a good amount of humor. I still think characterization was top notch for the most part, and I will continue to praise the use of minor characters. I will rewatch this one in a couple minutes. Who knows. Maybe the "fucking lame" is present, and I'm just not looking hard enough. ;-/

Maddog53

11-09-2003, 06:20 PM

Click here for my complete review. (http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/EpisodeReviewPage/showid-146/epid-205582/blockid-97961/) Like I say in there, good but not great. There were a few things they could have changed to make it run smoother, but it was good. I give it a 3.5/5 but I always round down, so it is a 3.

Maddog.

Radioactive Man

11-09-2003, 06:21 PM

It was pretty good. I think the ending was a little rushed. The highway off ramp joke was the one I laughed the hardest at and they gave it away during the 4th quarter of the Vikings game. And Glenn Close did sound much different.

HomertheGreat

11-09-2003, 06:29 PM

I enjoyed it. There were some gags that were unneeded but I don't want to nitpick. Funny jokes, (especially involving the 60's references, A Beautiful Mind, and some other good one-liners). Emotion was pretty good also. Though a few scenes the emotion was ruined (the car stopping and going comes to mind). But overall I liked the episode and it's a solid follow-up to "Mother Simpson". I personally didn't mind the ending the way it was. Sure it may have been better if they left the newspaper letters, but the way they ended it didn't really bother me too much. B

Tibor

11-09-2003, 06:30 PM

Worth discussing is what this episode did with the Mother Simpson character and her relationship with Homer. The episode on the whole was fairly lighthearted (though touching) but the dynamic between Homer and Mona remained interesting. Particularly Homer trying to catch up with his childhood, and trying to cope with losing his mother again. Probably the best moment was Homer's "the last thing she did was make me a better father."

HomertheGreat

11-09-2003, 06:35 PM

I thought the bonding moments were excellent. Especially the ones that took place during the 2nd act. Nearly all of them were hilarious. (Homer trying to ride a bike, Homer in the play, Homer in the bathtub). And what really made the bathtub scene was Maggie, very lighthearted, funny bit.

huh?

11-09-2003, 06:37 PM

Very good, I thought they couldn't pull it off, but they did. Episode flow was the best in quite some time and the emotion and humor was done nicely. The courtroom scene with Judge Snyder was great. Only complaint though would be parts of the 2nd act with Homer-Mom bonding extended a little bit too much and the whole national park arrest thing. But that was only a minor blemish and I'll give it a 4/5.

Tibor

11-09-2003, 06:37 PM

Expect DtB to complain about the coffin scene and Homer chasing the car as 'apologizing for the emotion' despite how they nicely blended humor and heart. ;)

The Hippie-English dictionary was hi-larious.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-09-2003, 06:40 PM

what did judge schnieder say his sister used to call him

i missed that one

skittlebrau

11-09-2003, 06:42 PM

Was a decent episode. Nothing special. Can't top "Mother Simpson".

19th century wood etching of Burns was hilarious.

John Lennon's "Mother" was a superb choice for Homer perusing through the pictures.

3/5

nowhere

11-09-2003, 06:45 PM

I thought it was pretty solid. Funny at times, though I wasn't a big fan of the third act, still it wasn't bad.
4/5

Al-barto

11-09-2003, 06:46 PM

WOW,
that was simply great.
I wouldnt change a thing, many here shocked me with there 2/5 rating, this is a definite 5 out 5

GREAT ending, would have been bad if mother were killed, the fact shes ALIVE and well, makes it great and can set up a future reunion.

A++++++++

newhook_1

11-09-2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by SpongeBob No Pants
what did judge schnieder say his sister used to call him

i missed that one

I think it was "Fatty Fatty Boom Batty".

InputSelect

11-09-2003, 06:49 PM

Can anybody transcript the whole giant taco article at the end. Well... just the first part since the other is just gibberish...

Tomacco

11-09-2003, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by newhook_1
I think it was "Fatty Fatty Boom Batty".

Or Fatty Fatty Boom-be-latty or somethin.

used

11-09-2003, 06:51 PM

i type as i watch it.

act one: erection joke is stupid, I don't like it. HOmer trying to wear Marges shirt is classic. Homer becoming obsessed with trying to get a t-shirt was nice. I liked him trying to find headlines a la beautiful mind. I liked Homers brain bit. Homer hugging the bum was actually funny. Homers letter to die hard was hilarious. This episode is awesome so for. The pencils all over the place joke was stupid, but forgivable. Nice act. 4.5/5

act two: The stock montage of the sixties was awesome. Oh, how I wish lionel hutz was the lawyer and not gil, theres one thing from the classic days they can never re-capture. Bart being knowledgeful of the law was good. Homer is not being a jerkass, at all. this is great. it would have been better if they had left homers speech without the bloodbank remark. Mel going on about the hotel is funny. Ether joke not funny, a bad joke in what would have been a perfect act. Maggie in the towel was awesome. If this had been made during the scully era, im almost sure they would have shown homer getting run over by all those cars, over and over. props to them for not doing so. Stevie joke was stupid. Homer stealing the room from flanders was awesome. Anita Bonghit! Awesome. The car teasing Homer was awesome. 4.5/5

act three: Execution joke ok. Sign joke was ok, nothing special. California adventure joke was stupid. Not another Homer getting shocked joke, couldn't she just have punched him or something. They redeemed themselves with Cheif Wiggum trying to talk like a hippie though. good stuff. Mother Simpsons grave was nice. I wish they had done them thinking she was dead a little more emotionally. Bart with the bottle was funny, and Homer trying to find a message was good. Her message was nice, hope she returns sometime.
4/5

overall: great episode, best in a long time. better then anything season 14 had to offer. 4.5/5 rounded up to 5 on the poll.

MacGyver 666

11-09-2003, 06:53 PM

"My Mother the Carjacker" was a solid "official" start to season 15. It effectively combined comedy with a little bit of emotion. I have a feeling this is one of those episodes that may get even better on further viewings. (Similar to Three Gays of the Condo, which aired after this episode) One of my favorite gags was Homer with the "Man is Missing" Article. Overall I would give "My Mother the Carjacker" a B+, after my first viewing.

Spartan

11-09-2003, 06:54 PM

I thought it was pretty good, but the Sideshow Mel gag and the entire court scene in general was horrible. The ending was weird, but not a bad ending.

The Spartan's Rating: 8.2/10

DotheBartman

11-09-2003, 07:01 PM

Heh, a couple things before my review:

Score one for Tomacco. Kefka, write more then one sentence if you're going to say anything at all. Seriously.

Tibor: you actually expected wrong this week. ;) I'll explain soon...

Anyways, here's my review. First off, let's just get the negatives out of the way first:

Some awkward pacing here and there (no big deal though)
The dancing cartoon animal in Homer's head. Amusing, but done before and I could see it coming a mile away.
Repeating the bash at Disney's California Adventure (funny the first time, not as funny here)
The ending could have been a tad more poignant. But I'll get to that.

So what was good? Well, pretty much everything else! The first two acts in particular were remarkably funny. The beautiful mind bit, all of the scenes of Homer bonding with his mother, Kent Brockman....I don't think there were any gags at all that weren't amusing on some level, and I laughed out loud numerous times. Plus, there was good use of side characters, and even the relief of seeing Judge Snyder in place of Judge Harm again. Awesome. Again, the pacing was a tad off at points, but no big deal. Homer also seemed a little dumb at points, but in this case it was done so lovably (especcially in the mentioned bonding sequences) that I didn't really care. Going back to what Tibor predicted I'd hate, I actually was laughing at the "driving away" bit. As he said, both amusing, and yet somehow combining a little heart into it. I did care about Homer's loss despite the gag, so it worked well for me. It was a hightlight if anything.

As for the third act, it pretty much kept up the same momentum. Lots of great gags (again none that failed), many of which had me laughing out loud. "Will you marry me? What do you mean no! I hope your car blows up" on the sign was one of the highligts. On top of that though, I was also suprised how well some of the serious moments worked. The casket scene was remarkably touching, again blending humor into it well also. The casket rolling away might've been a bit much, but I didn't really mind it. In fact in retrospect I think it might have added to the scene, and to Homer's despair (and the fact that it wasn't actually her body saves it). The scene in which she "died" in particular was very moving though. Even though I thought she would die ahead of time I was very suprised and did really find myself caring. That's no small feat, and though they ended with a Wiggum joke (which I thought was funny anyway), they didn't have Nelson say "Haw haw" or any similar joke that would have ruined the moment. Finally, the scene at the dinner table with the family was remarkably good and very sweet. The ending would have worked better, certainly, if it stopped on the newspaper message (as others have said), instead of adding her talking about clam chowder. But even that somehow was no big deal to me and didn't really ruin an otherwise sweet moment, and intriguing ending.

Final: Was it as good as "Mother Simpson"? No, not really. Even in the classic era I very much doubt that a sequel could match it. But it was still very good and, though it didn't touch me as much as Mother Simpson, still was very touching (a season premiere with an emotional side? Has Fox lost thier minds?) and also very funny. Maybe as the months go by we'll find ways to pick it apart, but for now all I can give it really is an:

A

used

11-09-2003, 07:03 PM

wow, i just read through the thread and have to say Im surprised. I was thinking this one would be liked as much as half-decent proposal, or moe baby blues. It was excellent. Many of the jokes I see people complaining about are classic simpsons stuff. But oh well, some people will never be happy.

Tibor

11-09-2003, 07:08 PM

I also saw Three Gays for the first time to night- great stuff. It was a pretty good hour.

DotheBartman

11-09-2003, 07:12 PM

Jesus, mary and glayvin, I completely neglected to mention one thing: the direction. It was very good tonight, especcially that shot of Homer watching the bus speed away and then over the cliff.

Tomacco

11-09-2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by DotheBartman
Heh, a couple things before my review:

Score one for Tomacco. Kefka, write more then one sentence if you're going to say anything at all. Seriously.

Tibor: you actually expected wrong this week. ;) I'll explain soon...

Anyways, here's my review. First off, let's just get the negatives out of the way first:

Some awkward pacing here and there (no big deal though)
The dancing cartoon animal in Homer's head. Amusing, but done before and I could see it coming a mile away.
Repeating the bash at Disney's California Adventure (funny the first time, not as funny here)
The ending could have been a tad more poignant. But I'll get to that.

So what was good? Well, pretty much everything else! The first two acts in particular were remarkably funny. The beautiful mind bit, all of the scenes of Homer bonding with his mother, Kent Brockman....I don't think there were any gags at all that weren't amusing on some level, and I laughed out loud numerous times. Plus, there was good use of side characters, and even the relief of seeing Judge Snyder in place of Judge Harm again. Awesome. Again, the pacing was a tad off at points, but no big deal. Homer also seemed a little dumb at points, but in this case it was done so lovably (especcially in the mentioned bonding sequences) that I didn't really care. Going back to what Tibor predicted I'd hate, I actually was laughing at the "driving away" bit. As he said, both amusing, and yet somehow combining a little heart into it. I did care about Homer's loss despite the gag, so it worked well for me. It was a hightlight if anything.

As for the third act, it pretty much kept up the same momentum. Lots of great gags (again none that failed), many of which had me laughing out loud. "Will you marry me? What do you mean no! I hope your car blows up" on the sign was one of the highligts. On top of that though, I was also suprised how well some of the serious moments worked. The casket scene was remarkably touching, again blending humor into it well also. The casket rolling away might've been a bit much, but I didn't really mind it. In fact in retrospect I think it might have added to the scene, and to Homer's despair (and the fact that it wasn't actually her body saves it). The scene in which she "died" in particular was very moving though. Even though I thought she would die ahead of time I was very suprised and did really find myself caring. That's no small feat, and though they ended with a Wiggum joke (which I thought was funny anyway), they didn't have Nelson say "Haw haw" or any similar joke that would have ruined the moment. Finally, the scene at the dinner table with the family was remarkably good and very sweet. The ending would have worked better, certainly, if it stopped on the newspaper message (as others have said), instead of adding her talking about clam chowder. But even that somehow was no big deal to me and didn't really ruin an otherwise sweet moment, and intriguing ending.

Final: Was it as good as "Mother Simpson"? No, not really. Even in the classic era I very much doubt that a sequel could match it. But it was still very good and, though it didn't touch me as much as Mother Simpson, still was very touching (a season premiere with an emotional side? Has Fox lost thier minds?) and also very funny. Maybe as the months go by we'll find ways to pick it apart, but for now all I can give it really is an:

A

Bravo, DTBM. Nice review.
That's two weeks in a row that we're on the same level.
Pretty funny since last season we contradicted eachother so much. ;)

Sam

11-09-2003, 07:23 PM

Again this week, not a detailed review.

BUT:

For this season so far: 5/5
For whole show: 4.5 out of fucking 5.

-Great art direction
-Great use of a guest star
-Good twist ending
-Solid plot
-Scenes had some wild tangents, but the plot stayed true the whole episode
-Very few annoying post-scully pop culture references
-Characterization spot on, save for Homer in some bits

(Beep)

Mayor Quimby

11-09-2003, 07:27 PM

5/5 Tremendous epsiode.

The color and animation looked beautiful, and I loved the plot, but it took alittle for it to develop. Other then that well timed jokes, I personally loved the Sideshow Mel rant, one of the funnier parts of the episode for me.

Andy

11-09-2003, 07:28 PM

I'm surprised people are concerned about the chowder moment. Although I did think the chowder moment actually made the ending a little more clever. It kinda separates the two episodes-- MS has the moving ending that's one of the best non-humor-driven endings ever. But MMtC's ending goes in the completely opposite direction, and succeeds by doing that. So instead of a carbon-copy of MS's ending (like if it had ended when Homer left the room), we get a complete 180 and it ends on a more upbeat, humorous note. I actually thought that would be a better call than going down a route they already went down with the first episode. Chalk one up for the writers on that one.

jesle

11-09-2003, 07:35 PM

What can I say? I agree with what most people have said already. Although I for one thought THOH XIV was great, I think that this ep solidifies the fact that The Simpsons can still make a classic ep and maintain the humor that so many of us have found lacking in recent years. The jokes in this episode were almost perfect (there were a few that weren't hilarious, but they weren't too distracting). Some of my favorites were the excellent A Beautiful Mind parody, the misspelled "election" gag (I'm a huge fan of proofreading and, like Marge, have received a t-shirt for my meticulous eye) and the wood etching of Burns (was he supposed to be Dracula? Just great!). My favorite joke, tho, was Homer knocking down Frank Grimes' grave...so classic and perfect. Although the ending was a bit odd, it didn't detract from the entire ep and...in a way, gave the ending a more positive spin than just the letters on the newspaper that everyone suggests should have finished the ep. Had it ended with just the Your mother loves you...or w/e, we wouldn't know if she had died or not. Sure, it would have been a mysterious ending, but would we have wanted it that way? I don't know. Anyway, all in all I give this 5/5. A definite A and a fantastic season premiere!!

Eggy

11-09-2003, 07:38 PM

That was GOLD!

The episode did an excellent job at blending emotion with humour.

I'm tempted to give it a 5/5.. so I think I will.

ShadowBun

11-09-2003, 07:38 PM

After reading through this thread, I'm bumping up my act 1 grade to a 4/5 and the episode as a whole is bumped to a 4.5/5 A-. There really were some great LOL moments in act one (I LOVED the "dessert" dialogue...something like "I want whip cream on my Arizona!" Does anyone know the exact lines between Homer and Lisa?), and the only part I didn't really like was Homer becoming obsessed with Marge's shirt.

This episode had some of the best Homer characterization in years. He was lovably dumb, with strong feelings. I loved the "mood" some scenes had, where there was little dialogue and the episode just moved the emotion with music and visuals. I'm talking about the opening of act 3 with the pictures, and the ending of the episode where Homer is sitting in the dining room. Really good effort all-around; the writers are trying their best this season.

Maddog53

11-09-2003, 07:41 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the part where Homer kicked over Frank Grimes' tombstone. I would have thought the haters of that episode would be up in arms of having to be reminded of that. Guess I was wrong. Also, my review does not mention many of the really funny scenes that happened, which I guess I forgot about. Maggie in the towel, the letters to Die Hard, etc... were very good. If my review seems harsh, or too low (3.5) all I can say is that it wasn't that I didn't enjoy it. I did very much. It was a really good episode. It's just a feeling I have with new episodes that something is wrong and I can never put my finger on it. I'm waiting to be able to give a 5 to the episode that blows my socks off. Oh, and the direction was good, very good in fact. Can anyone tell me who it was that directed this episode?

Maddog.

Tomacco

11-09-2003, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Maddog53
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the part where Homer kicked over Frank Grimes' tombstone. I would have thought the haters of that episode would be up in arms of having to be reminded of that. Guess I was wrong. Also, my review does not mention many of the really funny scenes that happened, which I guess I forgot about. Maggie in the towel, the letters to Die Hard, etc... were very good. If my review seems harsh, or too low (3.5) all I can say is that it wasn't that I didn't enjoy it. I did very much. It was a really good episode. It's just a feeling I have with new episodes that something is wrong and I can never put my finger on it. I'm waiting to be able to give a 5 to the episode that blows my socks off. Oh, and the direction was good, very good in fact. Can anyone tell me who it was that directed this episode?

Maddog.

Nancy Kruse.
I attribute the successful look to the episode in part to the digital animation.

robb

11-09-2003, 07:47 PM

This episode rocked, 4/5...would have been 5/5 if they played more of "All Along the Watchtower":).

Le Jake

11-09-2003, 07:48 PM

Well, aside from a few retarded moments (mainly S. Mel's diatribe and the Mom/Car Tease/chase) this episode was really well done! As for the ending, the fact they went with the non-MS ending was good, but it just seemed too rushed like Mona was reading her letter to the Clock Game on the Price is right, but oh well, you can't have it all...

Grade: A- (4.5/5)

Also, this episode gets bonus points for not being a Musical Guest Star / Crazy Homer adventure like the last few seasons.

Cook

11-09-2003, 07:51 PM

Very good episode. I agree with just about everything Tomacco And DTBM said.....mainly because I'm too lazy to type a review.
One question though...When the family members are around Mona's casket and are saying things about her, what the hell does Abe mean?
He says something about a raspberry or something. Sorry i don't have a direct quote. Anyone remember this?

Handsome Pete

11-09-2003, 07:52 PM

This episode, though not spectacular, did have some good qualities: Grandma Simpsons (and Glenn Close) returned, it had a nice overall feel to it (kinda warm, sorta like how "Mother Simpson" came off as), and the jokes never did disgust or frustrate me in any way. That ending was approached a bit differently, but in retrospect, it seemed to fit well. This was a decent follow up to "Mother Simpson", so I'd rate it 3/5. I'd say more, but I've got some other more important things to do now.

Magnum

11-09-2003, 07:57 PM

1.With this episode all Beatles have had their voices on the show :D
2.First person to say this episode was ruined by having someone fake their own death dies.
3.I think There was a joke about the long clam chowder ending in that Mona was able to fit all that in the news paper subliminally.

I'll review it later (as if anyone cares)

eddie

11-09-2003, 08:12 PM

Why is everyone commenting on the Mona/Homer angles being convincing? It was totally fake, forced, and unrealistic. Where "Mother Simpson" had real heart and emotion, this was stale and tedious.

Citizen Kang

11-09-2003, 08:13 PM

Pretty Good episode - 4/5.

Sideshow Mel's speech was not necessary at all slowed down the pace of the ep and homer''s "I'm not good with words" bit has been kinda of done before.

But I still laughed many times which is good.

"Anita Bonghit."

Tomacco

11-09-2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by ComixFan
Why is everyone commenting on the Mona/Homer angles being convincing? It was totally fake, forced, and unrealistic. Where "Mother Simpson" had real heart and emotion, this was stale and tedious.

Explain.

I wanna, for once, hear an explanation to why the emotion was forced or fake.

Channel Surfer

11-09-2003, 08:16 PM

Building upon what Tibor has already brought up, and what I mentioned in the Speculation thread, the most important thing about the return of a former character is why the writers choose to bring them back. Or rather, what can be done here that wasn't already done in "Mother Simpson"? Part of the reason "Half-Decent Proposal" is, IMO, in the top 3 of season's 13 and 14 is that it was able to answer this question successfully, by further developing Artie Ziff from "The Way We Was" while still remaining true to his already established character.

This episode succeeds enough in doing that. Not perfectly necessarily, the reasoning for Mona's return wasn't as well constructed here as it was in "Mother Simpson", even if it worked for all practical purposes. Also, there wasn't as much revealed about Homer here as in "Mother Simpson". "Mother Simpson" was more about Homer learning more about himself through his mom, how Homer is very much aware of his faults and imperfections, and it also had the bonus of Lisa sharing similarities with her grandmother. The ending was exceptionally poignant, even for the classic era, and it deserves even more credit for fleshing out Mona Simpson. This episode had less to offer in that respect, but it was hardly a sequel for the sake of it. Here, it's more about Homer trying to relive his childhood he missed, as well as connecting Homer and his family's own life to that of Mona's, most notably at the ending when she points out to Homer that he was about to become a fugitive just like herself. It was a cleverly done parallel I thought.

Humor was fine for the most part. The "Beautiful Mind" sequence at the beginning and end, Kent Brockman's mini-bio of Mona Simpson, some of the court sequence, some of the ways Homer tries to relive his childhood, and the "Hippie-English" dictionary quickly come to mind, though I could think of more if necessary. Also nice to see Cora (sp?) again, the highlight of "The Parent Rap", as sad as that might sound.

There were problems, yes. There was less reasoning or necessity to return Mona in this episode, and settles a little too quickly into a "Homer must protect his mom because he loves her" story angle. Also, the second act in particular has a skit show feel to it. Not literally, but the various sequences of Homer reliving his childhood had that kind of feel. And while most were funny, some of the "skits" didn't quite work (Marge imitating the birth of Bart comes to mind). The funeral was neither funny nor heartfelt to me, even if the stuff afterwards make up for it. And yes, there were pacing problems, but sometimes even blatant mistakes. I mean, when Homer hijacks the prison bus, he leaves Bart alone by the sign? Yeah, it's a nitpick, but still.

BTW, I think some people might have missed the point about the ending. It was cleverer than just a sweet, but silly conclusion. It was a nod to the original "Mother Simpson", setting everything back to the way it was before. Homer thinking his mother is dead, but in reality, she's still alive and well. Having her die or even leaving her death ambiguous wouldn't have been enough to make that point. Revealing that she's still alive successfully makes that connection. And talking about clam chowder was a working ending for me. It's such an down-to-earth, almost arbitrary thing to talk about, but says so much about a person who'd actually discuss something like that. I think it was great really, better than a more typical feeling "Is she really dead?" ending, or just killing her off.

Grade: B+

Steve McGoiter

11-09-2003, 08:17 PM

I thought this episode was pretty good. The laugh-out-loud parts were Homer riding his bike into a semi, Homer taking Flanders whole room out of his house (How the hell does that work?) and Batman dancing. Did anyone actually read the whole news paper artical about the giant taco? it was pretty funny. I'm not going to write the whole thing, but it said that it was about 400,000 tons, and the second biggest taco was owned and eaten by Dom Deluise. ahh, good stuff.

Tman

11-09-2003, 08:35 PM

I love this episode

5/5

Joey1138

11-09-2003, 08:36 PM

I really enjoyed this episode and the music used was a nice touch. 4/5.

DaSimpsons

11-09-2003, 08:38 PM

i enjoyed it, except for the fact that the plot pacing was really fast, like i feared it would. Some of the lines felt rushed, especially in the 1st act. Still good.

4/5

phil

11-09-2003, 08:48 PM

I'll admit something here and now; out of frustration I didn't watch The Simpsons last season because I felt the show had become too formulaic, and the characters too tired.

I gave this episode a shot and I wasn't blown away by anything. Once again I was shown another typical latter-day Simpsons episode that safely goes through the motions and doesn't offer anything new or takes any risks.

I felt no chemistry between Mona and Homer this time around and a lack of any depth to any of the characters at all. In 'Mother Simpson' Homer had a sort of charm, innocence and wonder in his character, in tonight's episode Homer is just compulsive and needy.

All in all the show was boring. Lifeless.

The only thing I enjoyed was the typical 60's stock footage montage and Mr Burns (seen here in a 19th century wood engraving). And for that I give this episode 2 out of 5.

I don't think I'll be watching many episodes this season either. Seriously, the show needs to end.

Stackhouse

11-09-2003, 08:48 PM

Seeing this episode a 2nd and 3rd time, I'm upping my grade to a A-... possibly a A. For now, A-, could go up later. Great Episode.

"Dear Die Hard: You rock! I especially like the part with the guy on the roof. - Homer P.S. do you know mad max?"

joe h

11-09-2003, 08:49 PM

For the last two seasons Homers voice has been changing into a permanent high, whiny voice, regardless of the situation. I even started believing that the writers were compensating for this problem by putting Homer in these types of situations. But after this episode it finally hit me, Dan has lost his seasons 3 thru 10 Homer voice.

So for the rest of the simpsons run, I guess it is something that both fans and writers will have to accept.

Max Power

11-09-2003, 08:51 PM

3/5

Felt too much like the whole plot was thrown together in 15 minutes.
Plus, Close didn't sound the same as in "Mother Simpson"...but that one is just my opinion.

bovine_university

11-09-2003, 08:53 PM

3/5. The prequel to this episode was a classic, but my expectations were a little lower for this episode, and they weren’t too far off either. This episode wasn’t great as far as the humor went, but the plot was fine, Glenn Close did a good job once again, and I was glad that the writers decided to include several moments that had me feeling for Homer. However, there were problems with this episode, mostly in the form of several jokes that fell flat or ran too long (a good deal of them from the scene in the courtroom, and the joke where the car kept stopping felt very cold). Overall the episode seemed a little below average, but not so bad that it ruins the storyline created by the first episode.

Glumplich

11-09-2003, 08:54 PM

Good episode, but of course not as good as "Mother Simpson." It was nice to see Gil again as the pathetic lawyer, Snyder as the judge, and Sideshow Mel in the jury. And as I watched "A Beautiful Mind," I enjoyed seeing the subliminal messages. It was good how Homer's mother used the messages in both the first and last acts. Grade: B+.

MaxPlow

11-09-2003, 08:58 PM

Pasted in, whatever. I never seem to agree with anybody.

Same with me. Most of the people I've talked to thought last week's episode was great and this one sucked, and I think the exact opposite. :(

kuumuus

11-09-2003, 08:58 PM

The first two acts were pretty solid. The funniest moments were Homer's letter to Die Hard, Homer stealing Flanders's room, and Homer being scared by the Zip Boys. I also enjoyed Homer's bonding clips with Mona. 5/5

Third act was good on the bus, but I hated the way the family handled Mona's "death." They treated it like a joke. Homer crying at the table was pretty sweet, but that scene was ruined by Mona's final clam chowder message. 3/5

Overall this episode was enjoyable. 4/5

lance

11-09-2003, 09:05 PM

Really good. Read Channel Surfer's review again rather than something I could throw together here. 4.5/5, 9/10, A.

Sorrydude

11-09-2003, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Mafia
Third act was probably the weakest. Mona's "death" was not done well at all. They shouldn't have had any jokes about it. I liked Homer kicking over Grimey's grave. I agree with Tomacco on how it should have ended with the HOMER instead of talking about her unbelievable escape and clam chowder.

Umm, why did you give it a perfect mark if a third of the episode wasn't all that great?

SpongeBob No Pants

11-09-2003, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Maggie's Magnum
1.With this episode all Beatles have had their voices on the show :D

very good point out!

i was amazed when i heared lennon's excellent "mother" as we came back from commercial break

i'm glad Fox actually got the song and didn't just rip it off in a sound alike tune (a la the Rockey theme in the one with body building marge)

also i just wanted to point out that after viewing three gays of the condo again (i haven't seen it since it first aired) i must say that that is one hell of a good episode

i just goes to show you that simpsons episode sometimes take multiple viewing to fully get them

bauer

11-09-2003, 09:53 PM

I found this episode to be very funny, although the ending did feel a bit rushed. I thought the first act was probably the best. 4/5

|RABiD|

11-09-2003, 09:53 PM

A solid, down to earth episode tonight. Very little to complain about. Yes, i agree with everyone on the pacing in the first act. Quite sloppy but it didn't bother me to much because I was busy laughing so much. Homer's headlines were priceless and Homer riding the bike made my whole family burst out laughing. All in all, its no "Mother Simpson" but its certainly up there in the comedy department. Bravo, writers, bravo. 5/5

EvilHomer01

11-09-2003, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Number One
3/5, nothing special. I personally didn't care for Mother Simpson's rushed explanation at the end... and I saw that coming anyway since finishing the episode with her death would've been way too depressing. Didn't think the episode would wrap up with an explanation like that though... meh.

Many chuckles and a couple LOL moments in the episode however, such as the 19th century wood etching of Burns and Homer going down the highway exit ramp on his bike.

also, a nice nod to "a beautiful mind" with homer going through the papers

Basically what I thought. Although I really dont like the Beautiful Mind bit. Perhaps if it was a bit more explained but suddenly Homer sees messages in papers? A bit streched for me. Maybe take that crayon out first ;).

Just too rushed to fully enjoy. 3.5/5

SpongeBob No Pants

11-09-2003, 11:24 PM

i just re-watched the ep, and here's something i noticed:

did anyone else think the animation looked a little off, i can't explain what looked different, but it just looked different compared to THOH 14 and the last few eps of last season

maybe it's just me?

|RABiD|

11-10-2003, 12:03 AM

LOL...did anyone actually read the ending article about the Giant Taco? it's great and before that scene ends where it shows Mother Simpson jumping out of the vehicle the article just reads like this: "jhdkausdhasdasdjn" but the first letter of each line reads I ESCAPED. It's hilarious! :LOL:

DAntae

11-10-2003, 12:33 AM

after just watching it a few mins ago i have to say it was just an average episode. it would get a C. i like a little continuity every now and then and a return of homer's mom just didnt do it for me. it had some quality jokes as always but the story seemed lacking in so many ways. i cant put my finger on all of it, but it somehow just seemed forced. when gil cant make me laugh then things arent that good. not a bad episode but i am a little surprised with all the people praising it.

George Cauldron

11-10-2003, 01:49 AM

I know these details aren't important, but what were the blackboard gags and couch gags like, and were they any good?

doyle

11-10-2003, 03:15 AM

No chalkboard gag. Couch gag was decent I guess. It showed the family sitting down, and againg, withinginto nothing, becoming skeletons before finally just turning to dust.

HomertheGreat

11-10-2003, 03:44 AM

Thinking about this last night. I compared this episode to "Three Gays of the Condo". I know "Carjacker" didn't have the annoying, pointless guest star, but I think everything else is simular. Both episodes had some types of pacing problems in the plot. Both episodes had some gags that didn't work. But both episodes are lighthearted, emotional, funny episodes. And both got a B grade from myself.

Homer908

11-10-2003, 04:23 AM

I really liked it I give it an A.

squishee lady

11-10-2003, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by Jake
Well, aside from a few retarded moments (mainly S. Mel's diatribe and the Mom/Car Tease/chase)

I think I now dispise sideshow Mel. That was pointless and boring. I want those 2 minutes of my life back.

HoyvinGlavin64

11-10-2003, 04:51 AM

My Mother the Carjacker: It was a great episode! Better than all of Season 14 minus Moe Baby Blues and possibly Special Edna and Mr. Spritz Goes to Washington. I'll judge the episode by 3 things: comedy, emotion, and characterization.

Comedy: It was there, and there was a lot of it! Homer writing to the movies, the messages in the newspaper, Sideshow Mel's lines, and the prisoners were all hillarious! Some things weren't as funny, but they can be ignored.

Emotion: One thing I like about Season 14 is that there has been a rise in emotional episodes. Watch A Star is Born Again or Moe Baby Blues to see what I mean. This episode outwieghs those in emotion and does a good job. The only minor flaw were that some jokes interupted the emotion. Not as emotional as, say, Lisa's Substitute, but about as emotional Bart Sells His Soul.

Good Characterization: Everyone was in their place. Homer wasn't mean, Burns was evil, and Moe wasn't that freaky as he was in some appearances last season.

And so, by the power invested in me, I declare this episode to be a solid A!

or_smth

11-10-2003, 05:00 AM

This episode had an awful lot of filler when it didn't need to have any. Was it really neccesary to get Mona pardoned and then in jail again? It seemed awfully stupid, because it made her end up back in square one. The stretch-out of the second act shortened the third and made us miss opportunity for some emotion.

I gave it a 4/5, grading it in comparison to THOH 14 (just like I think most of you are). On the grand scale, in comparison to last season it was about the same, to 13 about a 3/5.

I noticed the animation was off too, especially at the start. I know the simpsons are yellow, but they aren't that colour yellow. I thought digital animation was supposed to make the Simpsons more colour-acurate. The starting looked almost Tennis the Menace-style

Alpha

11-10-2003, 05:43 AM

This was a great episode. Simply great. :D

Okay, Homer finds a subliminal message. A little far fetched (although I loved the needlessly long message at the end. LOL). I thought this episode had some funny moments.

Mona: Bart, are you still the little hellraiser?

Bart: (sweetly) Yes'm.

Although I'm glad that grandma Simpson didn't die, I thought her escape was a little strange (although not much stranger than Skinner's escape from "Bart the murderer"). Say, is this next part just me?

"WOO HOO! Mom finally stoped caring!"

Sounds like Nancy stopped caring. What was up with that freaky sounding Bart voice??

Edit: Oops. Forgot some stuff. I seriously felt sad when the bus went over the cliff :( I really just :( :( I was so happy when Homer's mom was alive. :D :D even if it was a bit strange. I didn't care. I was happy!

A+

whisman

11-10-2003, 06:37 AM

Now this is more like it. Great episode. Didn't expect alot from this, but it delivered alot. Terrific writing. Hopefully the rest of the season will follow in its footsteps.

MaxpowerAK79

11-10-2003, 07:11 AM

There were definitely some strong points. The courtroom up until 1/2 of Mel's speech was very funny.
Snyder: I'll permit an indian burn

And The 60's montage was pretty funny. What a shirll and pointless decade

The news article of Burns was REALLY funny. "Local Villain Montgomery Burns.." and the woodcarving of burns chasing children. That was really good.

Ending was WAY rushed though, not great.

Wiggum was funny at the end "Okay, take some time off and we'll see you tomorrow at 10".

prince jafar allah

11-10-2003, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Toxic Monkey
the ladies singing clash

that's not a Clash song. bobby fuller. hippie classic. the Clash just covered it.

Originally posted by or_smth
Was it really neccesary to get Mona pardoned and then in jail again? It seemed awfully stupid, because it made her end up back in square one.

uh, yeah. that was the theme that the whole plot revolved around, Homer continuing to lose his mother. so i'd say it was necessary, yes, otherwise the entire episode would fall apart. sigh.

Originally posted by Comrade
In 'Mother Simpson' Homer had a sort of charm, innocence and wonder in his character, in tonight's episode Homer is just compulsive and needy.

that's fairly obvious character development and a fairly logical difference in behaviour. in Mother Simpson he had innocence and wonder because before that he thought his mother was dead, and her return was something of a huge revelation. Here he also had that wonder and childlike quality, but it was coupled with frustration at fate constantly trying to take his mother away from him. So naturally he would be compulsive, and needy. He wasn't compulsive in Mother Simpson because there was no need for him to be, he behaved as his character logically would. He behaved as his character logically would here too, so he's frustrated and compulsive. For the writers to merely make Homer act exactly as he did in Mother Simpson would hardly be clever or insightful writing, would it? in fact, it would be very lazy.

Channel Surfer and DoTheBartman (DTB, you don't know how pleased I am to know that you loved this one) pretty much covered everything that was right with this episode. It was a very similar tone to Mother Simpson, albeit a little more light-hearted (though Mother Simpsons was hardly "heavy" until the ending). It opted for lots of charm and warmth, with plenty of awesome gags blended in. The fleshing out of Homer's mom was wonderfully done, expanding her character nicely beyond the mere doting mother she was in Mother Simpson, with a pleasant streak of heroism and vigilance. A very minor gripe with Mother Simpson was that she was almost characterised as almost too charming and unassuming to be a particularly convincing hippie radical, but here, that's rectified. And it's pulled off with no loss to her original warmth and simple charm - the ending, as Channel Surfer mentioned, was a masterstroke IMO. It was much better than simply ending it with Homer looking at the newspapers, and going for a carbon copy ending of Mother Simpson, with a quirky, charming and actually quite original tone. The remarks about clam chowder and such say so much about her character in so little time. Homer was also characterised very well - I mentioned in my first paragraph/reply mostly why. The clever parallel in the third act (Homer would have to abandon his family) was the icing on the cake. All in all, the characterisation was just fantastic writing all round, and was very touching. I loved them simulataneously saying "do'h". It makes me so happy to continue to see episodes which have meaning, intelligence, and which clearly had actual effort and thought put into them.

The first act on-ramp went on a bit long, IMO, but no more so than the Homer's dead tangent did in the original Mother Simpson. If they had left out more of that, they could have kept that wonderful deleted sce....oops, wrong episode. And anyway, like the Homer's dead tangent, the newspaper thing was funny, with the hilarious Beautiful Mind homage being the highlight. Its recurrence for the conclusion was also well-done. The (thankfully not numerous) comments about the newspaper thing being "weird" just baffle me. It seems whenever the writers choose to do something recycled from the past, it's complained about as being recycled, but whenever they try to do something original and fresh, it gets squinted at and called "weird" (this happened to Three Gays' jigsaw thing too). Stop being so goddamn desperate to find faults.

The pacing was really the only major fault with this episode, and it has already been explained why, but it's not a major problem in terms of enjoyment really, as episodes which have dodgy pacing but great characterisation and great humor tend to work very well regardless (Last Exit To Springfield anyone?). And yeah, it was a skit show in the second act. But so were 8 out of 10 season 5 episodes, and this was a charming and totally hilarious skit show anyway. In fact, the entire episode was really excellent and very clever humorwise, and has probably the best hit/miss joke ratio of the Jean era. Even its wacky cutaways worked! The rat in Maggie's room, "this counts as a bath", the hilarious scene in the kitchen with Homer's attempted funny headlines, Homer's brain (no matter how many times they do this it always kills me), "A Burger And Squalor For Under A Dollar", Homer's letter to Die Hard, "first food he choked on", police union rules, "I swear on your eventual grave", Homer driving into the police station, "menace to decent people and germ warriors everywhere", "I'm not a man who's good with words", Gil's legal licence, "this is America - justice should favor the rich!", Homer stealing an entire room from Flanders, "you're right - people should only get OUT of jail on technicalities!", the highway sign, the hippie-english dictionary....and there were many more.
Very, very little failed - the laboured scene on the courthouse steps with Snake and Seymour and Sideshow Mel's overdone monologue (though I loved seeing him get center stage for once!) were probably the only parts I didn't like.

I also thought the casket rolling away was a nice touch. It was not by any means played for laughs, as some of you are implying it was, and it was quite affecting in Homer's frustrated reaction. It added very nicely to his overall feeling of hopelessness.

A really excellent episode, probably tied for my second favorite Jean era episode ever with Little Girl In The Big Ten. Extremely encouraging for the rest of the season. A-/A

SpongeBob No Pants

11-10-2003, 09:27 AM

here's some jokes that i just remembered and that no one has mentioned yet

-The highway traffic sign (i hope your car blows up!)
-Mr. Burns: "man thats good E" (clasic burns line if i ever saw one)
-Eddie and lou and the kissing joke
-the car stoping and then going again when homer caught up.
-i forget the exact line, but homer's goof up on candle light vigil

i was surprised at the amount of jokes in this episode, if the ending had been a little stronger (take out her cofin roling away, and just end it on "Homer your mother loves you" [make us wonder if she is still alive]) then this would have been one of the all time best, but it still ranks up there

lets hope they can produce all season 15 episodes this great

kupomog

11-10-2003, 09:51 AM

Hmm, well, I laughed very little, but there were some very well done jokes scattered throughout each act. I was focused more on Homer and his mother. I really loved the scenes between Homer and Mona. I just thought they were sweet. The only scene that got a slight rise out of me would be where Homer is crying out after the feds take her away at the germ warfare building. Didn't care for feds teasing Homer with the car, though. And I really didn't care for Mona's death... maybe for 4 seconds I felt like bawling until they blew the bus up and dropped the mountain on her. I do like how her casket rolled off after. I kind of agree that it should've ended right after "Homer your mother loves you", but I'm very pleased with the way it ended. I gave it a 3/5.

Hans Barber

11-10-2003, 10:25 AM

4\5.
Good follow up from last season. If all episodes are this good, or better, it is going to be a very solid season.

Warren

11-10-2003, 10:33 AM

4/5

Better than THOH XIV

NukeTheWhales

11-10-2003, 10:44 AM

3.5 out of 5

Burns's woodcut was classic
Bart's rebirth was hillarious...I had no idea what was going on until Homer said it

After the THOH XIV garbage ( worst episode ever), this is great news.

Icedragon

11-10-2003, 10:45 AM

5/5 Bring it on season 15.

Great ep. I was releived that Homer did not say "D'oh" when the casket rolled away. Added a little more emotion to that scene.

Magnum

11-10-2003, 11:01 AM

Complete overviews of the show have already been done so I'll just say a few things.

That was the best parody since season 13, me and Al aparently share a common ground in that we can't get enough of those Maggie jokes :D, getting to the plot in the first act is always a plus, three count'em THREE songs put to great use with a reference to an oldie and some of the best Burns humor in years. (but very little as always)

Now a couple of things I didn't like were that compared to Mother Simpson it almost looked like they were trying to put in as little Burns as possible, Glen Close sounded off, and the ending didn't sit quite right with me in that it was too fast paced and it looked like it would have been a little too easy to come up with but like Jafar said the Homer would have to leave his children like Mona did him thing was wonderful.

One last thing I didn't really mind the Erection joke as much as some people since it was just like the headlines on Leno, it used a legitimate term and wasn't anywhere near as pointless or stupid as the Anita Bonehit joke. Because of this I found it to be a little funny

A-/A

caffolote

11-10-2003, 11:06 AM

This episode had its moments. It had a few laughs and some great innuedo. I give it a 4/5

Tibor

11-10-2003, 11:29 AM

I watched it again today, and I enjoyed it even more (A-). Loved how they continued to develop Mona Simpson's character- Brockman's history of her on the lam, other little things like her singing with the prisoners. Channel Surfer and Jafar's take on the ending as further development is also interesting. This is also probably the funniest episode of the Jean era.

My top 5 Al Jean episodes (so far) go:

1. Moe Baby Blues
2. My Mother the Carjacker
3. Little Girl in the Big Ten
4. Three Gays of the Condo
5. Half-Decent Proposal

pat

11-10-2003, 11:58 AM

Fantastic episode, and a great season premiere! Good moments include the reinactment of Bart's birth and the beginning with the Oops! T-shirt thing. Tibor said it, this is the funniest episode of the Jean era, and it had some great emotion to boot. I have high hopes for this season, and so far I haven't been disappointed. Grade: 9/10, I took one point off for the Sideshow Mel thing, I didn't really care for that, but the rest of the episode was gold.

EDIT: I left out the return of Judge Snyder. Maybe this will mean the end of Judge Harm. 'Cause if it's not.....*shakes fist*

SpongeBob No Pants

11-10-2003, 12:56 PM

does anybody know how last nights episode fared in the ratings, because i imagine it did quite well (although for the first time in a while i felt FOX didn't advertise the episode that much)

Furious D

11-10-2003, 01:11 PM

this is the best premiere i've seen since Wizard of Evergreen Terrace (which most people didn't even like anyhow). i was very impressed w/the episode and am now looking forward to great season.

simplysimpsons

11-10-2003, 01:14 PM

EDIT: Can't delete this post, sorry, I was saying about OFF's ratings for sunday - Click here (http://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34370)

SpongeBob No Pants

11-10-2003, 01:27 PM

man that is wiered

maybe many people missed "3 gays..." last year and thought they'd watch it last night but why "My mother the..." got fewer viewers is beyond me

hey, just when we get a really great episode, thats when people decide not to watch

Go figure? :(

magus7000

11-10-2003, 01:30 PM

pure awesomeness!! I was a little scared from the preview, but I think they did a Mother Simpson sequel justice. While I was a little confused with Mel in the courthouse (maybe they should have had a couple other characters in there so he didnt stand out). It didnt detract from the episode. Fantastic start to the season, much, MUCH better than the last couple season premiers. Booya to My Mother The Carjacker

9/10 (based on THoH XIV and S14)

oh yeah, the erection joke was kinda meh... but because it was in headlines, it was fine (BUT CUT OUT THE PENIS JOKES PLEASE!!!)

prince jafar allah

11-10-2003, 01:41 PM

come on...the erection gag was hardly in-your-face. it was less in-your-face and less likely to initiate confused questions from a kid as the washington monument gag in Mr. Lisa Goes To Washington. Anyone complaining about that? No? OK then.

chris

11-10-2003, 01:42 PM

I'll have a review later, but one quick question:

What on earth did this episode have to do with carjacking?

Cole

11-10-2003, 02:16 PM

police bus, i guess.

and i agree with jafar on the erection joke. as i stated earlier, these are the types of headlines you would see on such a show. erection should not be an offensive word ... lighten up.

NoOneFamous

11-10-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
come on...the erection gag was hardly in-your-face. it was less in-your-face and less likely to initiate confused questions from a kid as the washington monument gag in Mr. Lisa Goes To Washington. Anyone complaining about that? No? OK then. If Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington were made today, Homer would have probably proclaimed "Hey Marge! Look! Washington Monument my ass! It looks like a giant wang!!"

Although the erection headline did not bother me.

prince jafar allah

11-10-2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by NoOneFamous
If Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington were made today, Homer would have probably proclaimed "Hey Marge! Look! Washington Monument my ass! It looks like a giant wang!!"

oh, yeah, sure. because every episode made these days is just packed with tons of gags like that, isn't it

chris

11-10-2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Cole
police bus, i guess.

Yeah, but Homer was doing the jacking there...

Ah well.

Cole

11-10-2003, 02:32 PM

good point. yea, i don't get the title, either. =/

"mr. lisa goes to washington" is a good example of a subtle "penis joke." it doesn't have to even be subtle to be both clever and hilarious. watch the king of the hill episode "square peg" where peggy battles with her complex over saying the word "penis" to her sex ed class.

MacGyver 666

11-10-2003, 03:38 PM

I think the episode was called "My Mother the Carjacker" because the title is suppose to be a takeoff of the name of the short lived 60's sitcom: “My Mother the Car”, but I could be wrong.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-10-2003, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Homerpalooza
I'll have a review later, but one quick question:

What on earth did this episode have to do with carjacking?

well it was a play on the title of a 1960's TV show called "my mother the car"

i guess in this case "carjacker" doesn't actually refer to what she does, but as to what she is (carjacker is a criminal, so is mona simpson)

Rowdy

11-10-2003, 04:01 PM

Rock! Us on the West Coast won't have our opinions read by anyone! :)

Anyway, I loved the episode. Nearly as good as "Mother Simpson". I figured the reviews would have a lot of threes though as the episode is too leisurely paced for the many twelve year olds here.

DotheBartman

11-10-2003, 04:40 PM

A few more notes:

Watching again, I nearly cried when the bus went over and Homer looked so sad. :( Very well done. After Three Gays, Moe Baby Blues, and this, I'm completely convinced that they know how do to emotion again.

Also watching again, Homer stealing part of the Flanders' house had me in stitches. I don't think we've had a "hating Flanders" gag that good in a long time.

People, the erection joke is no big deal. I'm not a fan of the blatant sick stuff (crotch dot, etc) but this was just a parody of what you would see on those shows as others said. And anyway, it wasn't really any different then, say, Bart's crank calls to Moe (same goes with the "Anita Bonghit" name).

Finally, I'm unfortunately disapointed with reaction from friends. At least, one of my friends told me how disapointed he was with it, and when I pressed him all I could get out of it was "yeah, it was pretty good for a new one". *Sigh* Even I'm beginning to wonder if certain fans just aren't open minded enough for it to even be worth them watching the show.

whisman

11-10-2003, 04:49 PM

Was the scene with the photos coming out the printer a parody of anything? It seems familiar for some reason. Now to finish my review.

I didnt see the point in a couple of jokes, like Mels long speech. This episode had plenty of strong points though. The first minute or two fell tact on, but when Homer started going through his research for a funny headline, I started laughing out loud. Great episode. Reminds me of something I would see right before season 11.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-10-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by DotheBartman

Finally, I'm unfortunately disapointed with reaction from friends. At least, one of my friends told me how disapointed he was with it, and when I pressed him all I could get out of it was "yeah, it was pretty good for a new one". *Sigh* Even I'm beginning to wonder if certain fans just aren't open minded enough for it to even be worth them watching the show.

you said it, i don't expect people to say it was the best ever or to have loved everything about it, but to say it was a bad episode or that they didn't like it perhaps shows that they have grown out of the simpsons

ShadowBun

11-10-2003, 05:24 PM

Watching again, I nearly cried when the bus went over and Homer looked so sad. Very well done. After Three Gays, Moe Baby Blues, and this, I'm completely convinced that they know how do to emotion again.

Yes, the animators added a little line under each of his eyes; it was a subtle detail but it made all the difference...this section of the episode made me feel very empty and cold (in a good way of course, as I'm betting that was the intention). Heck, the rest of the episode from this point had a melancholy feel to it...I never felt convinced that Homer REALLY thought his mom was still alive, and you gotta sympathize with him for that (poor guy, not ten minutes ago we saw him reliving his childhood and he believed he'd never lose his mom again).

One request though...could someone type the conversation with Homer's newspaper headlines ("What'd he lose...HIS PANTS!?")? I really loved that part, especially his loud laughter.

Stackhouse

11-10-2003, 05:46 PM

One thing that surprised me happened while watching this episode with a couple of my friends (avid simpsons watchers). When the car was stopping and starting with the cops driving away, and Homer kept sobbing and chasing after it, one of my friends made the comment, "Poor Homer..". Even emotion like this, shrouded by a joke, can reach the average joe once in a while... or maybe they were just recognizing how cruel that would be. Judge for yourselves.

Bartman3010

11-10-2003, 06:03 PM

I think this episode doesnt deserve to be a follow up to Mother Simpson. This episode went by too fast, a lot of the jokes were lame and 90% of the time it didnt even make me laugh.

Act 1 - Blah, I started to hate the episode by then. All the jokes that came up were pretty bad. Mostly Homer's cheesy forced jokes. Also it seems that they didnt have a lot of time to execute the episode,the whole T shirt thing was pretty dumb. The Beautiful Mind thing was a good idea. But when they meet his mom, I'm not emotionally attached for soe reason. It just didnt grab my attention. But somehow the police force was actually able to reckonize Homer's mother immediatley. THen shortly, she winds up in jail. Terrible timing.

Act 2 - It picked up a bit here, I thought it was cute how Homer and his mother tried to catch up, but again, more lame jokes and too quick timing make it fall a little flat.

Act 3 - Bah, I'm just going to skip straight to the whole chase scene. I think it was apropriate for his mom to tazer him and push her out. Having him go through the thorns and stuff...it might've been funny. But the whole part where the car explodes and rocks pile into the water makes me think that the writers tried to make us laugh at that scene. I was disgusted myself.

I give this a 2/5, I hope theres better episodes than this one in the comming season.

Charmy

11-10-2003, 06:19 PM

Damnation, I lost my skillfully worded post. The jist of it:

-Complained about very minor lapses in Burns and Homer characterization. Very minor.
-Complained about not getting the 'mother keeps getting taken away from him' thing until Jafar pointed it out, even with Homer's oh so obvious line about it in the first act.
-Talked about how my review was too negative when I really liked the episode.
-Said the ending grew on me.
-Gave it a letter grade of A-.
-Declared it one of the best of the Jean Era.

HomertheGreat

11-10-2003, 06:28 PM

Is there any place I can download the episode? Kazaa one isn't downloading for some reason.

Eggy

11-10-2003, 06:38 PM

I once again have to compliment this episode on how well it was able to mix humour with emotion (but not sacrafise emotion for humour), which was very welcome.

I was sad when the bus flew off the cliff, yet I was laughing at Wiggum's comments. Also the part where the guys in the car teased Homer.

There was no forced emotion in this episode (which is what I was afraid of), everything I felt while watching was real.

Ever since the second half of season 14, the show's been going in the right direction. Lets hope they can keep this up.

Eggy

11-10-2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Bartman3010
Act 3 - Bah, I'm just going to skip straight to the whole chase scene. I think it was apropriate for his mom to tazer him and push her out. Having him go through the thorns and stuff...it might've been funny. But the whole part where the car explodes and rocks pile into the water makes me think that the writers tried to make us laugh at that scene. I was disgusted myself.

First, she tazered him because she loved him, and wanted to protect him. The thorns were just a quick add-on, but it worked. (I'm assuming you meant to say "innapropriate", if not, disregard what I just said).

The writer's were not trying to make us laugh, I don't know how you were inturpreting that scene. Homer's crying should have been enough to make you realize is was all serious.

Jerry P.

11-10-2003, 08:09 PM

Homer: Okay, get geady to laugh! "Cranford Man Missing"! What's he missing, his pants? a train? Gimme a break! [silence] Too soon, huh? Alright... "Drought Threatens to Turn West Into Dessert"! Yum, yum! I think I'd like some whipped cream on my Wyoming.
Lisa: Dad, the word's "desert", and those farmers are suffering.
Homer: From what? Too much hot fudge?! Huh? Yee-hee. Come on, Bart, show me some love.
Bart: Don't drag me down with you, old man.

Home sweet home, that's [...] is to
One pizza that's making its claim as the
Most sizable pizza in the
Every state wants to hold it
Rhode Island is our smallest state so far,
Montana boasts the biggest sky in the land;
Even Idaho brags about itspotatoes [sic]. Iowa
Eventually wanted to make is [sic] mark, too.
To many in Ames, Iowa, where the college
Men and women who dreamed up this stunt
Eat pizza like LA students eat pills, this
4th attempt at doing something magnificent
Saved the state. "There was a precious little
To brag about," said Dale Faulken,
Recently moved to Nebraska "to find
Entertainment, if you can believe it."
Eating a slice of a big pizza pie was
To draw him back "for good

Others in the state seemed to
Very enormous pizza was bei[ng]
Eaten, and when informed of [the pizza]
Responded, "Who Cares? I do[n't eat]
Pizza, or any un-American food
Asparagus, or something grow
Sure, I'll give it a whirl. It can
Smallish food, I don't care. Th
Mean it won't taste good
It won't make the evening ne
Don't quite a lot of things we
Neglected by you liberal repo[rters]
Intensely anti-U.S focus on w
The uneaten portion of the 3
Eventually be turned into luxu

How about those amazing, marvelous Mexicans?
One day they're attacking our best Alamos, or
Manufacturing nice leather belts to sell to
Eager U.S. tourists with uneventful trousers.
Recently, though some students in northern
Yucatan tried to make something to wear under
One's belt. They ended up making... history.
Until yesterday, the largest taco ever built
Resided in LA, home of Dom Deluise, who
Moved it from room to room to view it as he
Oversaw the operation of his bustling career.
That taco is now among the world's smallest.
He was unavailable for comment at press time.
Earlier this month, in attention-starved Iowa,
Residents made what they believed would be the
Largest food ever prepared: a 378-ton pizza.
Once the Yucatan Taco tipped the scales at a
Very impressive 413,845 tons, Iowa's feat was
Eclipsed, and the state was, again, forgotten.
Some in Iowa vowed revenge on the citizens of
Yucatan saying, "If they want war, bring it
On. The people of Iowa are prepared. We've
Used this week bulking up on American pizza."

J.Re*

11-10-2003, 08:13 PM

amazing. 5/5. I'm so glad they did this episode well, I ways really hoping they wouldn't screw up the return of grandma simpson.

ShadowBun

11-10-2003, 08:36 PM

Hahahah, thanks Jerry! That's currently the funniest Season 15 moment to me! "Too much hot fudge?" :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

newhook_1

11-10-2003, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by SpongeBob No Pants
you said it, i don't expect people to say it was the best ever or to have loved everything about it, but to say it was a bad episode or that they didn't like it perhaps shows that they have grown out of the simpsons

Your average Joe is a dumbass who cares more about things blowing up and jokes then genuine emotion in TV show, Books or anything else really. I love comedy but you have to have some emotion in some of the episodes (Not all of them either, some have to be light hearted gag fests) or it just detracts from you caring about the characters, there are a few exceptions though (Southpark being a perfect example) .

Anyways, to get back on the topic, the best reaction any of my friends gave it was, "It was OK".

Le Jake

11-10-2003, 09:29 PM

I watched it again without being interupted, and I do still give it a 4.5/5, but I changed my mind regarding the ending. It SHOULD'VE ended with the newspapers in kitchen. Then, IMO, Mona's dialog should've been played during the END CREDITS (ala U2 in 'Trash of the Titans') that way the preceeding escape story could've had a bit more time to come across relaxed and fulfilling.

Jake

East Rd

11-10-2003, 10:07 PM

I'd give it 4/5. I thought it was very good except for the general pacing problem and the overuse of musical montages. I counted at least 3. Keep em coming!

NoOneFamous

11-10-2003, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
oh, yeah, sure. because every episode made these days is just packed with tons of gags like that, isn't it Um, well, yeah, kind of. Especially considering that nearly every episode has at least one crotch joke or some other needlessly blatant vulgar joke in it these days. Face it, today, Homer would have said something similar to what I just wrote, rather than being the one whispering "Oh Marge, grow up!" if Mr. Lisa Goes To Washington had aired today.

prince jafar allah

11-10-2003, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by NoOneFamous
Um, well, yeah, kind of. Especially considering that nearly every episode has at least one crotch joke or some other needlessly blatant vulgar joke in it these days. Face it, today, Homer would have said something similar to what I just wrote, rather than being the one whispering "Oh Marge, grow up!" if Mr. Lisa Goes To Washington had aired today.

no. there may have been more jokes involving the word penis or whatever, but none of them (save perhaps Jaws Wired Shut, and it was a parody) derive their humor directly from the obscenity of the word itself. Brockman saying penis was a joke on his unprofessionalism. Frink saying penis was supposed to contradict "you're no less of a man". "crotch dot" was just a standard farcical gag. and so forth.

TheSimpsonsFreak

11-11-2003, 02:00 AM

Well, I thought it was a good episode. One of the best this season ;) I was expecting it to be more emotional, but it was still good. I thought that some of the jokes were good, but some of them were just stupid and unfunny... kinda like a lot of the episodes in the newer episodes. Oh well, 3.93456355343223/5

Gunstar

11-11-2003, 03:18 AM

Jesus tap dancing christ did this episode suck. I'm quite surprised at how many of you guys thought it was like "the good old days". That couldn't be further from the truth. I can honestly say that I did not laugh once. Even my younger brother said at the end "Um...was that supposed to be funny?". Between this and the horrid Halloween episode, I have no hopes for the new season. Please, just let the Simpsons die already... :(

DaSimpsons

11-11-2003, 04:33 AM

the montages were great. I just love when the animation gets a bit 'older'. Sometimes the smooth design of the computer animation makes the characters seem stiff to me. Oh, and Wiggum was hilarious in this episode, more so than any other character. Vintage Wiggum.

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Voodoo Monkey
2/5

Terrible, terrible, terrible.
How could anyone consider this good?
I thought it was really bad.
Sure, it didn't completely ruin Mother Simspon, but

Some people will say it did.
U liked it more than I did.
Crap, this was crap.
Erection instead of election was low, even for FOX

I don't want to ruin your otherwise well-thought-out, concise and thorough dissection of the episode (I especially loved how you stated your argument with "terrible, terrible, terrible" and expanded on this point with "How could anyone consider this good?", before launching into a detailed thesis and discussion of said argument with such insightful observations as "I thought it was really bad" and "crap, this was crap"), but....

e-rec-tion
noun

1. Something erected; a construction.
2. The firm and enlarged condition of a body organ or part when the erectile tissue surrounding it becomes filled with blood, especially such a condition of the penis or clitoris.

that's the joke. since when do people "unveil" elections? if you can't even understand such a simple and unsubtle (HE WAS STANDING IN FRONT OF A BUILDING!) joke as that, you shouldn't be watching The Simpsons in the first place.

Originally posted by DTB
Finally, I'm unfortunately disapointed with reaction from friends. At least, one of my friends told me how disapointed he was with it, and when I pressed him all I could get out of it was "yeah, it was pretty good for a new one". *Sigh* Even I'm beginning to wonder if certain fans just aren't open minded enough for it to even be worth them watching the show.

Well as I've said before, I fear the scully era has ruined people's perceptions of new episodes irrevocably. Even Chris Pfeiler, hardly the most friendly of critics, agrees on this, and tells me he's becoming quite irritated with the negativity and close-mindedness that people have in regards to the Jean era on the German-language Simpsons newsgroup.

Tibor

11-11-2003, 05:20 AM

Also, the reemergence of that "abundance of A, lack of B" nagging found in S7 reviews (such as the complaining about the puzzle/newspaper openings and time tested "family goes someplace" openings)

Improvements are wasted on you people. :(

magus7000

11-11-2003, 05:34 AM

I really like your thoughts an post Scully episodes Jafar. I too feel that there is a biased towards current episodes based on the fact that we had a couple bad seasons. I myself try to picture the episodes as if they were shown with season 4 or 5 episodes so i can get a good feel for them. .... or i just say fudge you haters, you can go be miserable, im going to watch my awesome simpsons episodes.....

either way works

Tibor

11-11-2003, 05:38 AM

I'm fine if reviews consist of constructive criticism- of which there is plenty to be had -but I keep seeing the same vague nitpicks and disproportionate complaining over one or two jokes (which everyone would have loved if they were Mirkin era anyway).

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 05:44 AM

well there have been no negative constructive criticisms yet. everyone who is capable of backing up their opinions and providing sound, detailed arguments has liked the episode. there has been no real criticism of the episode other than the pacing, which as I've pointed out was no worse than certain "classic" episodes. ComixFan, usually an intelligent poster, said something about it being "forced" or "tedious" or some other such vague buzzword, but so far has not responded to Tomacco's request to actually back this up with anything. the only remotely negative (B-/B) intelligent view was from our Mr. Scully, who for some reason doesn't seem to be reviewing episodes in these threads this year, but said in some other thread - "(It) was a bit of a rehash. It had the same plot device: Homer losing his mom to the law, then losing her to the law...again. The dynamic between Homer and his mom felt sort of rehashed as well. " Which even though it's only three sentences, he's still managed to provide far more reasoning and intelligent criticism than the entire lesser half of this thread put together, and his points are fair and understandable, even though i don't necessarily agree.

Gunstar

11-11-2003, 07:05 AM

Well, I forgot to state earlier that the ending was ridiculous. It didn't really feel like it ended, but just stopped. It also felt sort of tacked on to ensure that there would be another Mother Simpson episode down the line. The whole newspaper thing at the end was, in a word, stupid. I can't for the life of me think of one memorable line or a sight gag in the whole damned episode. I'd go into things in a bit more detail, but unfortunately, 30 hours without sleep has taken its toll on me. Maybe later...Gunstar sleep now...

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
Well, I forgot to state earlier that the ending was ridiculous. It didn't really feel like it ended, but just stopped. It also felt sort of tacked on to ensure that there would be another Mother Simpson episode down the line.

Well if you contrived to see it that way, then fine, but that's not its purpose. As Channel Surfer said - "I think some people might have missed the point about the ending. It was cleverer than just a sweet, but silly conclusion. It was a nod to the original "Mother Simpson", setting everything back to the way it was before. Homer thinking his mother is dead, but in reality, she's still alive and well. Having her die or even leaving her death ambiguous wouldn't have been enough to make that point. Revealing that she's still alive successfully makes that connection. And talking about clam chowder was a working ending for me. It's such an down-to-earth, almost arbitrary thing to talk about, but says so much about a person who'd actually discuss something like that. I think it was great really, better than a more typical feeling "Is she really dead?" ending, or just killing her off.". And I would agree, and I think a standard ending where she died would have been flat and predictable (and in fact, I'm pretty sure it would have been complained about just as much as, if not more than, this one is being complained about).

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
The whole newspaper thing at the end was, in a word, stupid.

Oh...oh, right, I see. That sure is a thorough analysis there.

Care to at least tell us WHY it was stupid, if nothing else?

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
I can't for the life of me think of one memorable line or a sight gag in the whole damned episode.

I listed a lot.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 07:52 AM

well i just watched it again last night for the 5th time, and i now think that this may be my favourite episode of the last 3 years

i also caught Grampa's line (that some how i missed on earlier viewings)

Homer: "But dad you testified against her"

Grampa: "I read a book that said woman like jerks"

for some reason i laughed so hard at that, also i'd love to get a sound byte of Mr Burns' "man thats good E!"

i initially gave the episode a 4, but i think after numerous viewings i'd bump it up to a full 5

Alpha

11-11-2003, 07:56 AM

Yeah, me too. The re viewing adds so much greatness to this one. I LOVED the re inactment of Bart's birth because I thought it was a flash back for a second.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Alpha Homega
Yeah, me too. The re viewing adds so much greatness to this one. I LOVED the re inactment of Bart's birth because I thought it was a flash back for a second.

yeah that was funny, and then barts line after words:

"Wah! Wah!. Now you owe me a dirt bike"

Gunstar

11-11-2003, 09:01 AM

Wow...Mohammed Jaffar sure is being a defensive asshole over this shitty episode, huh? Looks like someone just cannot stand the fact that other people may not share the same views as him/her/it, seeing as how him/her/it has jumped all over everyone here who hasn't got down on all fours and kissed the collective ass of this mediocre episode.

You said you listed a lot of memorable moments, eh? Well good for fucking you. I can't remember one good part of that entire episode, and nothing you can say can change that. I'm sure that I could go on and on and on, but you are quite an asshole, and I just don't have the energy right now to argue with some faceless nobody on a messageboard about something that's beyond pointless, so I'm not going to waste my time. I could care less. ;-Q

I guess it took a couple of months, but it looks like I finally met a real prick on these boards. YIPPEE!! Oh well. Back to bed...

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
Wow...Mohammed Jaffar sure is being a defensive asshole over this shitty episode, huh? Looks like someone just cannot stand the fact that other people may not share the same views as him/her/it, seeing as how him/her/it has jumped all over everyone here who hasn't got down on all fours and kissed the collective ass of this mediocre episode.

I'm just trying to start some kind of discussion. It's nice to have an opposing viewpoint to the general consensus, and then a debate over the clashing opinions. God forbid someone actually provide reasoning or backup for their opinions, eh?

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
You said you listed a lot of memorable moments, eh? Well good for fucking you. I can't remember one good part of that entire episode, and nothing you can say can change that.

I was just pointing out that other people found lots of memorable stuff, and that it was unusual you found none.

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
I'm sure that I could go on and on and on,

then why don't you? i'd be more than happy to discuss the episode with you.

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
but you are quite an asshole, and I just don't have the energy right now to argue with some faceless nobody on a messageboard about something that's beyond pointless, so I'm not going to waste my time.

well what did you come on the messageboard for in the first place? this forum is called general DISCUSSION, you're supposed to discuss things. If you find discussion a waste of time, perhaps you should stay out of the board marked "discussion", hmm?

And I don't really think I've been an asshole to be honest, especially by my standards, so I don't know what you're getting so mad about. Two out of my three replies to you in my last post were completely unconfrontational, and the other one, while sarcastic, had a very fair point and was constructive.

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero

Oh well. Back to bed...

make sure you get out of it on the right side next time.

Hapablap

11-11-2003, 09:37 AM

Well I've been working my 12 hour night shifts up to today(Tuesday) and I just watched this episode. I've never voted a 5/5 faster since I've been here. I'm sure most of the jokes have been pointed out already, so I'll just say this episode had me laughing my arse off on multiple occasions, and left me a completely satisfied Simpsons fan.

On initial viewing it seems that the pace of the show has been slowed down at least to the point where you can enjoy a good joke before another average/bad one blurrs it out. Definitely a big step back in the right direction in my opinion. Also a great job on the music selections in this one, which there seemed to be alot of... props to Alf who I'm assuming was responsible. Excellent.

chuck88880

11-11-2003, 09:53 AM

meh.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Gunstar Hero
You said you listed a lot of memorable moments, eh? Well good for fucking you. I can't remember one good part of that entire episode...

Well if you didn't find at least one good part in the episode then you obviously do not have either a sense of humour and/or a heart

you clearly did not like the story and that's fine, but to say that the episode lacked humour or emotion is just idiotic.

NoOneFamous

11-11-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
no. there may have been more jokes involving the word penis or whatever, but none of them (save perhaps Jaws Wired Shut, and it was a parody) derive their humor directly from the obscenity of the word itself. Brockman saying penis was a joke on his unprofessionalism. Frink saying penis was supposed to contradict "you're no less of a man". "crotch dot" was just a standard farcical gag. and so forth. "The Heart is the strongest muscle in the body!" Homer: "What about the WANG??"

Tell me thats not just for the sake of mentionoing the penis so the kids can all giggle... besides, just because a lame penis joke has a small ammount of reasoning behind it doesn't make it an intelligent joke... its still just shock humor for the sake of "shocking" the audience into a laugh.

jesle

11-11-2003, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Jake
I watched it again without being interupted, and I do still give it a 4.5/5, but I changed my mind regarding the ending. It SHOULD'VE ended with the newspapers in kitchen. Then, IMO, Mona's dialog should've been played during the END CREDITS (ala U2 in 'Trash of the Titans') that way the preceeding escape story could've had a bit more time to come across relaxed and fulfilling.

Jake

I like your idea, Jake, but I think we all know how Fox loves to show the end credits as complete as possible and with no interruptions about crappy reality tv shows and such. Also, the U2 airplane scene at the end of Trash of the Titans was completely unnecessary, imho, and added nothing to the plot of the ep. In comparison, the ending of this episode needed some sort of conclusion that fully illustrates what has happened to Homer's mother. Without such an ending, the viewer is left confused and irritated at the writers for failing to fully wrap up all of the parts of the episode.

Also, does anyone know why there was no blackboard gag? Was it cut for time or are they not going to have any more of them this season? Just wondering.

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by NoOneFamous
"The Heart is the strongest muscle in the body!" Homer: "What about the WANG??"

gimme a C! gimme an A! gimme a B! gimme an F! CABF!

was overseen by Scully, aired two years ago, and was made over two and a half years ago. so I'm not in any way defending it.

Originally posted by NoOneFamous
besides, just because a lame penis joke has a small ammount of reasoning behind it doesn't make it an intelligent joke... its still just shock humor for the sake of "shocking" the audience into a laugh.

ah, but conversely, just because the joke happens to involve the word penis doesn't mean it's NOT an intelligent joke. I mean, if Kent had said "ass" instead of "penis", nobody would have attacked it for being "unintelligent" or whatever, but the joke wouldn't worked as well. And I don't see how Frink's joke is particularly unintelligent either, it's just as clever as most Simpsons jokes. the old self-contradiction gag, it's been done loads of times. just because this one happens to involve a "dirty word" doesn't mean it's any less intelligent than any previous similar jokes. and while some people may be immature enough to find humor merely in the mention of the word, so what? that's not the Simpsons' fault, is it?

used

11-11-2003, 11:15 AM

Charmy

11-11-2003, 11:48 AM

Since Jafar has basically challenged people to make valid critisms beyond the pacing issues, I'll do so. Gives me something to do.

There were minor problems with Homer and Burns characterization. Homer had a touch of jerkishness with his reaction to learning about the plight of western farmers and his reaction to Marge's shirts. It was nothing major, and it was far from ever being Jerkass-ish, but it still bothers me.
Likewise, Burns falling asleep during his interview with Kent detracted a lot from his menacing character: He still has a touch of senility, it seems. And while we've seen the effects of Ether on him before, this time it seemed really over the top.

The funeral scene wasn't handled as well as it could have been either. Marge and Grandpa's comments seemed really out of place and didn't add much to the scene. And while I appreciate previous episode refs as much as the next man, zooming in on Frank's tombstone with blaring music seemed to heavy handed- it was like they were saying 'We're doing a episode ref and your going to sit there and watch it'. Perhaps I'm just complaining for the sake of it, but I would have preferred it if they made it more subtle. As it was it seemed to me to be out of place in the scene.

That's it for now. I fully expect Jafar to launch into one of his trademark rants explaining why I'm wrong, and I invite him to. I'd like nothing more than to know the few critisms I have with the episode are ill-founded.

Tibor

11-11-2003, 11:59 AM

That's it for now. I fully expect Jafar to launch into one of his trademark rants explaining why I'm wrong, and I invite him to.

Oooh, ooh, can I do it?

Homer's 'jerkishness' I can't see being troublesome at all. His jealousy over the t-shirt I find to be well within bounds. Typical Homer-overboard eccentricity, nothing jerkish about it. The drought comment wasn't cold or malicious. Tact is not a strong point of Homer's. The funeral I don't find issue with either. It was a scene with the family all sharing how they each connected with Mona on a certain level- Bart's hellraising, Grampa's senility- Marge's recollection of a meatloaf recipe as a bond with her fit, being domestic and all.

Burns and the rather in-my-face reference with Grimey's tombstone I agree with, but aren't we back to "disproportionate complaints over one or two jokes"? And how is Burns' ether hit more over-the-top than him hallucinating and giving Pop N' Fresh $500- which was a major plot device, btw -?

phil

11-11-2003, 12:11 PM

Hey, I thought my negative review was constructive.

Magnum

11-11-2003, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
Even Chris Pfeiler, hardly the most friendly of critics, agrees on this, and tells me he's becoming quite irritated with the negativity and close-mindedness that people have in regards to the Jean era on the German-language Simpsons newsgroup. Yes I've read this mans work. So what's it going to take to get that sexy bitch over here?

Charmy

11-11-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Tibor
Burns and the rather in-my-face reference with Grimey's tombstone I agree with, but aren't we back to "disproportionate complaints over one or two jokes"? And how is Burns' ether hit more over-the-top than him hallucinating and giving Pop N' Fresh $500- which was a major plot device, btw -?

Tibor wins the round. :) For the record, I felt that Burns' reaction to the Ether was off in this episode. In Team Homer, it caused a part of his character normally dormat, senility (for the classic era, at least), to the surface. I don't see how his reaction to it here is anywhere within the bounds of his character.

Yes, I realize the characters were supposed to be expressing ways they bounded with Grandma, but I didn't see Marge's comment (or at least the way it was expressed) as a character bonding thing. Still, considering the lack of interaction between Grandma and Marge in either episode, I can see why they would have trouble making a line that really fits.

My one last non-pacing complaint, which I forgot to mention earlier, was the few streches in believability. The fact that Homer would find the secret message is really a strench, and the Macaroni pencil holder thing didn't seem like the best reason to have Grandma come back. Same with the convienance of Mona mentioning State Parks so Burns could bust here on National Parks- it was a believability strech to get the episode moving.

As for the 'disproportionate complaints' thing: Any time Burns is shown as senile it really detracts from his menace, and because his menace in trying to get Mona convicted is an important part of the episode, it kind of detracts from it.
And because the funeral is such an important scene, anything that's wrong with it really sticks out like a sore thumb, and detracts from the appreciation of the scene more than it would with a less important scene.

Tibor

11-11-2003, 12:54 PM

My one last non-pacing complaint, which I forgot to mention earlier, was the few streches in believability. The fact that Homer would find the secret message is really a strench, and the Macaroni pencil holder thing didn't seem like the best reason to have Grandma come back. Same with the convienance of Mona mentioning State Parks so Burns could bust here on National Parks- it was a believability strech to get the episode moving.

Which were really my only non-pacing complaints- Homer just happening to find the secret message on the night he was to meet her, and the national park thing. But upon my second viewing, it didn't bother me nearly as much. It got the ball rolling and quickly got out of the way.

Friz

11-11-2003, 12:54 PM

Shh... Friz is about to say something...

Downloaded and watched. A very.. pointless episode, to say the last. Some nice direction with Homer going all "A Beautiful Mind" on us, as well as the flashlight going in everybody's faces- however, the long "Zip Boys" shot seemed to be stretched out slightly. Some good scenes wth Mother Simpson, but it would have been nice to see her bonding with Lisa and the others.

I'm just thinking back to 'Mother Simpson'.. scenes like Homer walking on his hands, shouting "Look what I can do!" spring to mind. They were fantastic scenes, and really brought out the child inside Homer. It wasn't as funny as, ooh, Homer in a child's performance play as a tree, or the recreation of Bart's birth.

3/5 for me. Some good scenes, including "I'm not a man of many words...". No more Gil as a Hutz replacement please. In fact, I wouldn't mind if they made a Tarintino spoof called "Kill Gil".

NOTE: Hows *this* for obscure character referencing: the waitress in the café that homer, Mother (I refuse to call her 'Mona') and Bart go to, who complains about the 9% tip, is the deaf donut lady from 'The Parent Rap'- the season premiere two years ago. Aheh, heh, heh.. you don't care.

whisman

11-11-2003, 01:15 PM

Nah. Thanks for the observation.

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Comrade
Hey, I thought my negative review was constructive.

yeah it was, i forgot about your post. it was well-reasoned but aside from the vague stuff ("lifeless" and so on) the criticisms weren't really valid IMO, as I explained.

Originally posted by Charmy
There were minor problems with Homer and Burns characterization. Homer had a touch of jerkishness with his reaction to learning about the plight of western farmers and his reaction to Marge's shirts. It was nothing major, and it was far from ever being Jerkass-ish, but it still bothers me.

Well that's an extremely desperate nitpick, and it doesn't have enough credibility to even require Tibor's fine demolition job on it, but what the hey, what's done is done. It was perfectly in-character, as Tibor explained, and if this was your idea of "jerkishness", be prepared to find fault with just about every Simpsons episode ever created! Even the beloved Mother Simpson had Homer yelling at the town hall guy for some reason. And though I don't feel that was OUT-of-character, it was far less IN-character than the supposedly "jerkish" behaviour in this episode.

Originally posted by Charmy
Likewise, Burns falling asleep during his interview with Kent detracted a lot from his menacing character: He still has a touch of senility, it seems. And while we've seen the effects of Ether on him before, this time it seemed really over the top.

I agree, but you can't seriously put this point forward when a post later you defend Burns' consistently horrible, degrading and very clownish Team Homer characterisation. Which was wrong in exactly the same way, except it was much worse. In Team Homer the clownish moments far outweighed the genuine evil (of which the only example was his behavior at the end) and took over his entire character, whereas here, the clownish moments were the exception in a mostly very evil performance indeed.

and as Tibor said, these are very much "disproprionate complaints".

and as for the heavily coincidental plot devices....well, no shit. every sitcom episode ever created has heavily coincidental plot devices. Lisa & Homer just HAPPENED to run into Mr Bergstrom at the museum, Lisa just HAPPENED to catch Mr Bergstrom right before he left, and so forth. Don't worry about it.

Originally posted by Charmy
Yes I've read this mans work. So what's it going to take to get that sexy bitch over here?

he still uses windows 3.11 and so his browser can't cope with advanced webboards. he uses 3.11 because he believes the windows franchise has being going downhill ever since about 1994 and that such loveable features as the Program Manager have been degraded into unlikeable moronic childish piecesashit like the Start Menu. The kids love the Start Menu, whereas real fans will always long for the Program Manager, he says. Also, whereas Windows was once down-to-earth and realistic, now it frequently goes on wacky adventures where the system takes you on a wild ride through malicious viruses, metre-long system trays and malfunctioning install programs. Ah ha ha ha ha. Oh, OK, that was just a lie (uh, the part about windows going downhill that is, the first sentence is true).

Magnum

11-11-2003, 01:34 PM

....riiight.......

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Charmy

My one last non-pacing complaint, which I forgot to mention earlier, was the few streches in believability. The fact that Homer would find the secret message is really a strench, and the Macaroni pencil holder thing didn't seem like the best reason to have Grandma come back. Same with the convienance of Mona mentioning State Parks so Burns could bust here on National Parks- it was a believability strech to get the episode moving.

actually i had no problem with Homer finding the message, i mean the article was about food and the word "homer" was in the first paragraph, so he didn't really have to look that hard.

as for the pencil thing, that wasn't the reason she came back, she was just reminded of how much she loved her son by it (most mothers keep memories attached to things that their children give them), i actually thought the pencil holder was a sweet idea and it showed the bond between mona and homer

and the state park joke, yes it did seem odd but i think it was a play on the fact that its such a small thing to get caught for and who would ever think about lying to cover it up. plus it was highlighting the fact that Mr. Burns had gone to so much trouble to finally get her (after all he was the one who set it all up - notifying the feds, placing the tape recorder in his jacket, dedicating the "learnatorium" to her, asking her to be the first to sign the book)

Tibor

11-11-2003, 01:50 PM

every sitcom episode ever created has heavily coincidental plot devices. Lisa & Homer just HAPPENED to run into Mr Bergstrom at the museum, Lisa just HAPPENED to catch Mr Bergstrom right before he left, and so forth. Don't worry about it.

Point well taken, but if something like that sticks out to me then I find fault with it. It did here, for whatever reason. Perhaps a secret message as a plot device requires more suspension of disbelief than older TV conventions (like everytime the TV is turned on, information relevant to the current situation appears from nowhere). Though, as I said, it really didn't bother me on the subsequent viewing.

RE: Penis jokes

I love how all it takes is the word "penis" to set off alarms with people. The "may include loss of scalp & penis" joke in Barting Over, for instance. It isn't as if the humor is derived from the word 'penis' being funny in and of itself- but who cares if it also has a lowbrow appeal. Jokes on The Simpsons have always been layered like that.

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by Tibor
Point well taken, but if something like that sticks out to me then I find fault with it. It did here, for whatever reason. Perhaps a secret message as a plot device requires more suspension of disbelief than older TV conventions (like everytime the TV is turned on, information relevant to the current situation appears from nowhere).

true, though it wasn't as if the plot device was lazily handled. they clearly made sure it (the secret message device) made as much sense as possible, through Homer's descent into newspaper-scanning madness, and the fact it was an article Homer would instantly be attracted to.

Originally posted by Tibor

I love how all it takes is the word "penis" to set off alarms with people. The "may include loss of scalp & penis" joke in Barting Over, for instance. It isn't as if the humor is derived from the word 'penis' being funny in and of itself- but who cares if it also has a lowbrow appeal. Jokes on The Simpsons have always been layered like that.

yeah, that's what i was trying to say earlier, but you said it much more clearly and succinctly. exactly my sentimonies.

Tibor

11-11-2003, 02:20 PM

they clearly made sure it (the secret message device) made as much sense as possible, through Homer's descent into newspaper-scanning madness, and the fact it was an article Homer would instantly be attracted to.

Yes, I agree that the writing is probably as sound as possible.

In other Pfeiler news, what did he think of Season 14?

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 02:43 PM

can somebody tell me the name of the first song in the episode it was the one that played over the montage of Mona and Homer bonding (her giving him a bath, knitting him a wig etc...)

I know the second one was John Lennon's "Mother", but what was the name of the first and who was it by (it sounded like Paul simon)

Roger Myers III

11-11-2003, 02:47 PM

It was Simon's "Mother & Child Reunion".

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
as for the heavily coincidental plot devices....well, no shit. every sitcom episode ever created has heavily coincidental plot devices. Lisa & Homer just HAPPENED to run into Mr Bergstrom at the museum, Lisa just HAPPENED to catch Mr Bergstrom right before he left, and so forth. Don't worry about it.

Although I whole-heartedly agree with your overall point, you really could utilize better examples of "coincidence" than Lisa's Substitute's.

Plots can move move around by bald "coincidence", but its usually sniffed-out right away, so in OFF that type of move is usually done only in service of a good joke. The show today really favors plot jumps that are "logical", or at least, "not-illogical", if you catch my drift. But your examples are plot-points that are even tighter - "organic" flows: Of course Lisa & Homer would run into Mr. B at the (only) museum - he stressed to the class that that day would be their last oppotunity to experience the exhibit, and he was a genuine enthusiast himself. And of course Lisa would catch Mr. B. at the (only) train station - she cared for him enough to follow his schedule & every move, and she pedaled her little heart out to catch his train's departure (and there are only 2 plot possibilities: she catches him or she doesn't.)

Everything else aside from that tiny little nitpick - Bravo!

HomertheGreat

11-11-2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Charmy

and the Macaroni pencil holder thing didn't seem like the best reason to have Grandma come back.

I thought the pencil holder was just a reminder. A reminder of Homer and his childhood, and Mona missed it, so she wanted to see Homer again.

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Tibor
In other Pfeiler news, what did he think of Season 14?

well his reviews for everything up to Three Gays are up on ATS, as for the rest :

"There were some really good episodes, e.g. "The Dad Who Knew Too
Little", "A Star Is Born Again", "Mr Spritz Goes To Washington",
"Three Gays of the Condo" and some more, and I really thought the
improved quality of the second half would be a permanent change
towards the better. But then came stuff like "Dude, Where´s My
Ranch" (the title already defines the style) and "Brake My Wife"
and we were back to uninspired and simplified mainstream.

Now "Dude" is an excellent example for an Ian Maxtone-Graham episode.
Not caring about any logic or continuity (we "learn" that the episode
showed Lisa´s first crush???), typical standard plot (unrelated first
act, wacky adventure, animals attack Homer), some mean humour, simple
characterization (Lisa whiny, using big words) and forced references
like the gollum guy. A "funny" cartoon show, but no Simpsons episode.

I have to admit that I almost liked "Old Yeller Belly". The first act
with the Amish is wacky, but I liked the mascot plot with SLH. Duffman
has some good lines. "But what about my kids - Duff Girl and Duff Lad?" "They were just one-time characters in a Super Bowl ad" "Oh". The end with the stranded and probably dead shark as new Duff mascot with the dancing party girls somehow has the satirical absurdity of a classic episode. Still not very well done, but I´ve seen worse in season 14.

"The Bart of War" is a little too much South Park for my taste, e.g.
the diarrhea jokes and some other stuff. Some good ideas like Ned´s
Beatles room or the lines "We learned that war is not the answer",
"Except to all of America´s problems". Once again a mixed bag.

The best episode of the final five is IMO "Moe Baby Blues". The first
act is again overly wacky and mean (is it funny when Krusty jumps into
a dung heap?) but the Moe/Maggie story is nice and almost a character
story in classic style, alas with some typical modern elements. Seems
as if the writers were this time not so afraid of a serious storyline.
It would be "Good News" if that episodes defines the season 15 style."

After my reply -

"Your opinion about the season is certainly a little friendlier than my opinion but generally I agree with most of your thoughts - the season was a clear improvement to the Scully years.

However, I think there were also a couple of pretty bad S14 episodes,
especially in the first half (where you also have four D-grades in a
row). The TOH 13 was IMO pretty poor, "Helter Shelter" reminded me of
season 11, "Bart vs Lisa vs the 3rd Grade" was extremly weak writing
with an empty feel and "funny" vomit jokes.

All DABF holdovers were more or less uninteresting, with just "Strummer Vacation" as exception - and that one ironically says "Executive Producer Mike Scully" in the end credits. It was funny but followed IMO too much the standard plotline "Homer meets celebrities => Homer has trouble with celebrities => Celebrities chase Homer in some chaos scene".

The EABF episodes showed the real improvement, with a few unnecessary
exceptions like "Louse Detective" (Worst Sideshow Bob Ever) and "Dude
Where´s My Ranch" of course.

I can´t really understand how the writers can produce good episodes
like "Dad Who Knew too Little" and "Gays of the Condo" and then write
stuff like "Dude" and consider it as good enough for the show. After
all the more or less good EABF, I had hope we were through with such
unimaginative stuff. Well, I think it was Harry Shearer who said once
there are certain writers where he doesn´t expect a good script - and
Ian Maxtone-Graham is IMO one of them.

I consider "Brake my Wife" as a mainstream episode because there´s
too much "fun stuff" there to distract from the main plot. It seems
as if the writers tried to make a classic relationship episode but
also tried to appeal to S11/S12 fans with lots of wacky jokes and
sketch-like plot fragments - like Homer´s bizarre musical scene with
Steve Buscemi. The entire episode feels unnecessary and seems like
filler material for the season to me. "Gays of the Condo" was far
better in every way.

I liked "Moe Baby Blues", it´s definetly among the best S14 episodes.
There were a few jokes I didn´t like (especially in the first act,
e.g. Krusty jumping into the dung heap) but the Moe/Maggie plot was
very well done, you already said the reasons why. The episode clearly
deserves respect and detailled analysis, there´s much more behind its
surface than just cartoonish fun."

ryan o

11-11-2003, 03:01 PM

FINALLY saw it (I HATE Arizona) and it was pretty good. I liked the mail scene, and the ending was a bit abrupt, but I have to make this quick, I'm seeing Elf in ten minutes. B-...

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Roger Myers III
Although I whole-heartedly agree with your overall point, you really should utilize better examples of "coincidence" than Lisa's Substitute's.

Nah, I picked Lisa's Sub as it's universally regarded as at least one of the best episodes ever, if not THE best. I didn't pick it due to particularly glaring "coincidence". As you go on to point out, the coincidental happenings in it are very "not-illogical" and not displeasing in the slightest.

Originally posted by Roger Myers III
But your examples are plot-points that are even tighter - "organic" flows: Of course Lisa & Homer would run into Mr. B at the (only) museum - he stressed to the class that that day would be their last oppotunity to experience the exhibit, and he was a genuine enthusiast himself.

Surely if he were such an enthusiast, he would have seen it long before that? And didn't he say the museum was closing "in a month" or something, so surely it is at least coincidence that they both happened to pick exactly the same time and exactly the same day.

(I'm just being argumentative for the sake of it here, btw)

Magnum

11-11-2003, 03:08 PM

Don't really disagree with much of what Pfeilfer said but he seemed to fail to realize it's still too early to expect a solid stream of great episodes.

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Maggie's Magnum
Don't really disagree with much of what Pfeilfer said but he seemed to fail to realize it's still too early to expect a solid stream of great episodes.

that's no reason to be lenient in criticism.

Magnum

11-11-2003, 03:18 PM

no it's not
I was just saying is all

Starbucks Exec

11-11-2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
Nah, I picked Lisa's Sub as it's universally regarded as at least one of the best episodes ever, if not THE best.

Not by me... :D

prince jafar allah

11-11-2003, 03:40 PM

well, obviously there are idio...i mean exceptions. ;)

bmac

11-11-2003, 04:48 PM

god fucking dammit. i was in the middle of typing a well-thought out review while watching the episode again at the same time when my crappy computer completely froze up. It was quite long and i wasn't finished with it, i doubt i can duplicate it but maybe i'll try later. I assure you it would have been magnificent though :)

Charmy

11-11-2003, 05:23 PM

Jafar: Two things:
-I was only saying that the ether thing in Team Homer was exectued better than in My Mother the Carjacker. I agree that his characterization was pretty bad in that episode, though.
-Why did you attribute that 'Sexy bitch' comment to me and not Maggie's Magnum? :)

My complaints only seem disproportionate if I hate the episode because of them. I love the episode, but there's a few nagging things that stick out as contrived or not good. In a lame defence of my Homer complaints- I'm completely insane. I very much doubt there bother me as much on the next viewing. You'll have to excuse me, but it's just the way the old noggin' works. Same goes for the convienance of the newspaper thing.

EDIT: Oh, and I excuse you for forgetting about my posts. Everyone else always does. :)

Crotis Jivefunk

11-11-2003, 05:30 PM

5/5

The curse of the season premiere's been broken.

brentmoney

11-11-2003, 07:03 PM

I haven't been able to get online the past few days, but today I have. I have really mixed thoughts of this episode. Until the end I kept thinking " I can't believe they actually pulled this off!. Most of the episode was pretty solid, and I was enjoying it to a very high degree. I thought Homer and Mona were characterized very well in this episode. Unfortunately, they just had to fuck it up a little at the end. I nearly kicked my TV over when they said Mona died. I was a little relieved when I found out she wasn't dead but the whole " I escaped from the bus" thing in the article was just a little too tacky for me. The first two acts and the first half of the third act was really good, but I really hated the end.

3.5/5

Magnum

11-11-2003, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Charmy
Why did you attribute that 'Sexy bitch' comment to me and not Maggie's Magnum? :)A kindly mistake I'm sure. I don't think he was trying to make any sort of subtle smart ass remark. ;)

eddie

11-11-2003, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Tomacco
Explain.

I wanna, for once, hear an explanation to why the emotion was forced or fake.

Those musical montages of their activites together were much more cheap gag-ish than a geniune emotional connection between the two characters. And that whole fake birth of Bart was just groan-enducing, instead of laugh-enducing.

Homer's "I can't lose my mother again!" just felt so artificial and wearing. There was no sweet, innocent chatting between mother and son like there was in "Mother Simpson." And when Homer was at her funeral, his dialogue just sounded so fake and stiff. The writers didn't take the time to "nourish" their scenes together. It felt way too much like some Simpsons nerd's "Hey, what if they brought back Homer's mother?" fan script.

I just wanted the episode to end, I didn't find myself genuinely appreciating anything about the episode. It was more of a "okay, now that episode's over with" kind of feeling when it ended. The first time I saw "Mother Simpson," on the other hand, I really took a few moments afterwards just reflecting on the sweet, sad story that I had just seen.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 08:16 PM

watch it again

i've found that this is an episode that needs multiple viewings to "get it"

eddie

11-11-2003, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by SpongeBob No Pants
watch it again

i've found that this is an episode that needs multiple viewing to "get it"

I did. I made that post after watching the episode a second time. Or maybe I just need to watch "Mother Simpson" again...but it doesn't matter, that's just how I sees it.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by ComixFan
I did. I made that post after watching the episode a second time. Or maybe I just need to watch "Mother Simpson" again...but it doesn't matter, that's just how I sees it.

yeah, thats cool, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

i just found that i liked the episode more after i watched it a second and third time

Channel Surfer

11-11-2003, 08:39 PM

Hope you don't mind me tearing at your rebuttal a bit, even if it was for Tomacco. To make things clear, I've only seen the episode once, and probably will only see it once for quite some time. So it is, IMO, fairly accessible on a first viewing.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Those musical montages of their activites together were much more cheap gag-ish than a geniune emotional connection between the two characters. And that whole fake birth of Bart was just groan-enducing, instead of laugh-enducing.

Didn't like that one gag either, but it's only one gag. Almost every episode has one bad gag. I'm sure you remember my list of bad gags in season 6. The one you went in a tizzy over? Also, to quote Tibor, this is disproportionate complaints over one or two jokes.

Besides, while I felt most of the skit show (to use a term loosely) middle helped solidify their relationship well enough, it'd be silly to imply that that was the only time it examined their connection. Two easy examples would be when they meet again and talk at the diner and much of the third act when they're on the run from the law.

Homer's "I can't lose my mother again!" just felt so artificial and wearing. There was no sweet, innocent chatting between mother and son like there was in "Mother Simpson." And when Homer was at her funeral, his dialogue just sounded so fake and stiff. The writers didn't take the time to "nourish" their scenes together. It felt way too much like some Simpsons nerd's "Hey, what if they brought back Homer's mother?" fan script.

This isn't "Mother Simpson" though. To expect Homer to behave like he did in "Mother Simpson" is, well again silly.

The writers did "nourish" their relationship, they built upon what was established in "Mother Simpson" and moved on from there. I've already mentioned the sequences above, it's established even earlier than in "Mother Simpson" for crying out loud. The whole episode's theme is about his mom constantly being taken away from him, and by the end building a parallel between Homer potentially running from his family and Mona literally running from her family.

I just wanted the episode to end, I didn't find myself genuinely appreciating anything about the episode. It was more of a "okay, now that episode's over with" kind of feeling when it ended. The first time I saw "Mother Simpson," on the other hand, I really took a few moments afterwards just reflecting on the sweet, sad story that I had just seen.

Again, this isn't "Mother Simpson" though. It should not be imitating "Mother Simpson". It would have been very easy to have an ending similar to the one in "Mother Simpson". As I said in my review about the ending:

BTW, I think some people might have missed the point about the ending. It was cleverer than just a sweet, but silly conclusion. It was a nod to the original "Mother Simpson", setting everything back to the way it was before. Homer thinking his mother is dead, but in reality, she's still alive and well. Having her die or even leaving her death ambiguous wouldn't have been enough to make that point. Revealing that she's still alive successfully makes that connection. And talking about clam chowder was a working ending for me. It's such an down-to-earth, almost arbitrary thing to talk about, but says so much about a person who'd actually discuss something like that. I think it was great really, better than a more typical feeling "Is she really dead?" ending, or just killing her off.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-11-2003, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by SpongeBob No Pants
can somebody tell me the name of the first song in the episode it was the one that played over the montage of Mona and Homer bonding (her giving him a bath, knitting him a wig etc...)

I know the second one was John Lennon's "Mother", but what was the name of the first and who was it by (it sounded like Paul simon)

Nevermind, i managed to answer my own question

It was "Mother and child Reunion" by Paul Simon

and now its off to Kazaa to downlo...

i mean

Amazon to purchase the album ;)

Hapablap

11-12-2003, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Charmy
while I appreciate previous episode refs as much as the next man, zooming in on Frank's tombstone with blaring music seemed to heavy handed- it was like they were saying 'We're doing a episode ref and your going to sit there and watch it'. Perhaps I'm just complaining for the sake of it, but I would have preferred it if they made it more subtle. As it was it seemed to me to be out of place in the scene.

While I liked this whole episode, I have to agree that zooming on Grimes tombstone with the music pretty much ruined the reference for me. If this was done off to the side without blatantly drawing attention to it, I would have loved it.

prince jafar allah

11-12-2003, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by ComixFan
Those musical montages of their activites together were much more cheap gag-ish than a geniune emotional connection between the two characters.

No more so than Mother Simpson. I think you need to watch Mother Simpson again, actually. There was only TWO scenes which featured direct dialogue between just the two of them (excld. flashback), and that was the first scene they were together, and the very short last one. All the rest was either a "cheap gag (row)", the family musing over her identity, or Burns & co trying to catch her. Grandma meeting Abe, Grandma meeting Lisa, Homer introducing her to the family, etc. There was very little "sweet, innocent chatting", so I don't know what you're on about. If anything, there was more of what you're demanding here - more scenes of Homer & Mona together, more scenes of Homer acting sweet & innocent, and more dialogue between them (I'd say the final dialogue in the bus was beautifully written. it wasn't directly "sweet & innocent", no, but it wasn't supposed to be, and it said a lot about their characters). This episode was really more about Homer & his mom than Mother Simpson was - Mother Simpson was just about Homer.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Homer's "I can't lose my mother again!" just felt so artificial and wearing. And when Homer was at her funeral, his dialogue just sounded so fake and stiff.

I really didn't have a problem with it at all.

Originally posted by ComixFan
The writers didn't take the time to "nourish" their scenes together.

how much more time would you like devoted it to it? the whole episode was focused on it (moreso than Mother Simpson). the scene in the cafe, the whole second act, Homer's convincing buildup of frustration....I can't see what more you'd want.

Originally posted by ComixFan
It felt way too much like some Simpsons nerd's "Hey, what if they brought back Homer's mother?" fan script.

show me a fanscript as cleverly written as this and i'll show you a three-legged gay buffalo that runs a successful nail salon on the corner of 4th & broadway

tim_duncan2000

11-12-2003, 08:14 AM

I agree with a lot of what Jafar said. There were very few things that I did not like in this episode (the t-shirt thing at the beginning was pointless, I could have done without Homer hugging a bum, the part with Snake on the courthouse steps was kind of stupid, the cops repeatedly stopping and taking off again just did not work for me and it just wasn't funny, and I didn't really find the highway signs joke funny, but these things did not ruin it for me). I actually liked Sideshow Mel's speech and Homer writing to the movies themselves instead of the movie makers was hilarious. I also loved the joke about Homer stealing a room from Flanders. Overall, I think I'd give it a 4/5, and I hope future episodes are this good.

Roger Myers III

11-12-2003, 09:10 AM

Actually, this "Buffalo" would be more likely.

Um, SpongeBob, your music question was answered within 4 minutes.

For those not already slapping their foreheads, this formally concludes the "Bad News, Everbody!" thread that's disappeared. (But discerning readers of that thread already realized this long, long ago.)

I can't believe the carping over the "death" of Mona. I think they "pulled it off correctly", respectfully and carefully. As Channel Surfer noted, it actually restores everything to its pre-Mother Simpson status, with the exception that Homer now doesn't feel abandoned, but loved. In this manner, it allows both those episodes to dovetail very nicely into the "continuity loop" that the show is conciously trapped in.

Look at how the other notable Show-Deaths were handled, and think about how they've been handled.

Marvin Monroe: An expedient killing, b/c Harry hated doing the voice. The death wasn't ever addressed directly in-show, and the lack of closure doesn't bother anyone in-show at all.

BGM: An unnecessary death, but an organic one in-show. The death of an elderly blues musician is not shocking or unexpected, and the character was not really a regular one (and the voice was a guest star). The point was to have Lisa experience the death of a loved one, and no one from the from the immediate family was to die, so this was a great choice. The closure for Lisa WAS the point of the story. No real continuity issues - he still lives on in his musical legacy, and Lisa's mentioned him.

Grimes: An intended death. This death was, very conciously and intentionally, a punchline - to the question posed by the plot - what if an actual person worked with Homer? As such, it was handled comically, with no remorse, ill-effects, continuity or closure issues (unless you count the fact that he left a vengeful son...) He was a one-shot, irritable character, introduced in order to be killed off. His tombstone continues to be a punchline...

Maude: A convenient death, due to the feature voice-actress' labor hold-out. Unexpected event, in an unconventional (and cruel, and rooted in a joke, and "disrespectful". Though it may have been utilized in a "when bad things happen to good people" philosophical type of analysis, it seems that the killing off of a major secondary character doesn't justify that analysis in the least. Presents unavoidable major "loop continuity" problems - its another major change that divides episodes into a clear "BKM" (before killing Maude) and "ADM" (after death of Maude) camps.

Mona: An ambiguous death. Mona clearly had to disappear again, whether dead or again-on-the-run. An she's a loved family member, although a rare-appearer, due to the nature of her status and the fact that she's played by a guest-star. The way in which they "pulled it off" leaves it very vague - in the "world of the show", she's dead (and her loving family believes it, too, and will mourn 7 remember her dearly.) No continuity issues. The only evidence at all that she's still alive and well lies in the mind of the viewer! Did we, like Homer, access our "beautiful minds" and get evidence from the Springfield Shopper that Mona made it? Or was it something that we just collectively WANT to believe, because no one that good should die so cruelly? [Its somehow also a very comforting thought that, in Mona's mind, if she has lived, her family knows this as well.]

Its a very "Tinkerbell" moment - beautifully constructed - for a very cynical age. Watch it again and see.

eddie

11-12-2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Channel Surfer
Didn't like that one gag either, but it's only one gag. Almost every episode has one bad gag.
Yeah, I agree with that. But each episode's "one bad gag" is usually just that--bad. This one was also in very bad taste.

Originally posted by Channel Surfer
This isn't "Mother Simpson" though. To expect Homer to behave like he did in "Mother Simpson" is, well again silly.
Only because Mike Scully fucked him up.

Originally posted by Channel Surfer
The whole episode's theme is about his mom constantly being taken away from him, and by the end building a parallel between Homer potentially running from his family and Mona literally running from her family.
Yes, is that a worthwhile theme? I sure don't think so.

Originally posted by Channel Surfer
It should not be imitating "Mother Simpson".
I didn't want it to imitate "Mother Simpson," I just wanted it to keep the same tone, feel, and warmth of "Mother Simpson." There was just no real substance here. Just a shell of a plot.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
There was only TWO scenes which featured direct dialogue between just the two of them (excld. flashback), and that was the first scene they were together, and the very short last one. All the rest was either a "cheap gag (row)", the family musing over her identity, or Burns & co trying to catch her. Grandma meeting Abe, Grandma meeting Lisa, Homer introducing her to the family, etc. There was very little "sweet, innocent chatting", so I don't know what you're on about.
Point taken.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
how much more time would you like devoted it to it?
A lot more! The episode could have been so much more satisfying if they focused a bit more on their reunion instead of summing it up in some photos Homer flips through and then going on some goofy story about her being on the run from the law.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
show me a fanscript as cleverly written as this and i'll show you a three-legged gay buffalo that runs a successful nail salon on the corner of 4th & broadway
Okay, you took that way too literally. I just meant that the episode seemed so forced, plain, and awry that a fan could have written it. As a whole, the episode was like some fan script that answers the question "What's Comic Book Guy's real name?", "What if Mr. Bergstrom came back?" or "What if we found out what state Springfield was in?". I didn't find the episode clever, interesting, and it was only mildly funny.

Let me just say that this episode was unnecessary, just like Maude's death, Amber and Ginger's return, and Artie Ziff's return.

The Foot

11-12-2003, 02:05 PM

I liked the Beautiful Mind Parody and there were a few good jokes but on the whole not extremely funny and the plot jumped around too much. I thought Homer's I want my mommy attitude was too childish even for Homer and the ending was a little weak. Not a bad episode but not very good either.
This episode gets a 6/10 on the laugh-o-meter. Grade C+

prince jafar allah

11-12-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by ComixFan
Only because Mike Scully fucked him up.

what are you talking about, that's not what he means at all. he means, i presume, what I said earlier in a reply to comrade -

that's fairly obvious character development and a fairly logical difference in behaviour. in Mother Simpson he had innocence and wonder because before that he thought his mother was dead, and her return was something of a huge revelation. Here he also had that wonder and childlike quality, but it was coupled with frustration at fate constantly trying to take his mother away from him. So naturally he would be compulsive, and needy. He wasn't compulsive in Mother Simpson because there was no need for him to be, he behaved as his character logically would. He behaved as his character logically would here too, so he's frustrated and compulsive. For the writers to merely make Homer act exactly as he did in Mother Simpson would hardly be clever or insightful writing, would it? in fact, it would be very lazy.

Originally posted by ComixFan
I didn't want it to imitate "Mother Simpson," I just wanted it to keep the same tone, feel, and warmth of "Mother Simpson." There was just no real substance here. Just a shell of a plot.

Stop just throwing out random negative buzzphrases. How was there "no substance"? Please explain. You haven't done so so far, you've just rephrased "no substance" into a bunch of other phrases, you haven't really cited any details rather than describing the episode in a vague negatively worded way. There was just as much "substance" as any episode, there wasn't as much "substance" as Mother Simpson, but there was a lot more substance and complexity in the episode's conflict than, say, $pringfield, Lisa The Beauty Queen or Lisa On Ice. Many people have clearly illustrated why this episode had substance and intelligence - substance and intelligence in plot, in characterisation, and in humor. Please, tell us where we went wrong. And there wasn't a "shell of a plot" either, that's just blatant bullshit, whether you liked the episode or not. Homer meets his mother, Homer loses his mother, Homer gets his mother back, Homer "bonds" with mother, Homer loses his mother again and his frustration increases, he determines to break her out of jail, before the conclusion where Homer loses her for (he thinks) the last time. That is a fully-formed plot with consistent themes and with focus. Fact.

Originally posted by ComixFan

A lot more! The episode could have been so much more satisfying if they focused a bit more on their reunion instead of summing it up in some photos Homer flips through and then going on some goofy story about her being on the run from the law.

What did I say about hokey buzzphrases? You're starting to irritate me. "goofy story"? No. It fitted in with the plot. Homer continuing to lose his mother. Homer determined NOT to lose his mother. This was hardly subtle. Unless you had a total frontal lobotomy before watching I fail to see how it could be interpreted as just some goofy tangent. It was just as "goofy" (whatever that even means) as Homer's mom somehow being a heavily wanted criminal.

The episode had a solid main theme and focused on this theme - Homer continuing to lose his mother. This did let them "bond". The whole fucking episode was them "bonding", Homer's constant losing of her was "bonding" because it built on their existing relationship, the interactions between them in the third act was "bonding" because it built on their relationship and characters. I'm surprised you somehow missed that the entire episode was about their relationship, just because it wasn't a carbon copy of Mother Simpson. And even then, there were plenty of scenes of just straightforward "bonding", MUCH MORE THAN MOTHER SIMPSON HAD. Where do you go with just bland "bonding"? Would you just have shown a skit show of various cute scenes all the way through? An episode needs to have a dramatic conflict, and Homer becoming frustrated at having his mother taken away from him again is a clever way to do it (and allows them to "bond").

Originally posted by ComixFan

Okay, you took that way too literally. I just meant that the episode seemed so forced, plain, and awry that a fan could have written it.

OK then, show me a fanscript of similar quality.

NoOneFamous

11-12-2003, 02:27 PM

Did anyone else predict that Mona didn't really die as soon as they saw the accident? I immediatly thought "I bet she escaped before it crashed" and I was right.

prince jafar allah

11-12-2003, 02:31 PM

yeah, but it was like 75% expectancy, 25% hope. but i didn't think they would kill her off anyway, Al Jean knows fans don't like people dying or things changing dramatically.

lance

11-12-2003, 02:59 PM

but would killing off mona really change things dramatically? it doesn't affect this week's episode in the slightest.

simplysimpsons

11-12-2003, 03:00 PM

Here's my review!
Great stuff:
Animation = TOP NOTCH. You can't get better- A+
"This counts as a bath!"
"Are you still a little hell-raiser?" "Yes'm!"
"This Simpson guy writes to movies!"
Burns' wood carving, heh. And I thought Burns was a little eviler than normal which was good.
Homer reliving his childhood moments, and "I'm riding by myself!....Arrgh!"
The Flanders room-stealing was done well, it could have been done a LOT worse.
Most of wiggum's lines were funny.
The photo of Homer strangling Bart, Mona strangling Homer...glad to see it runs in the family! :)
Characterisation was great all round, too.
The ending set in with the first part pretty well.
Tiny nitpicks: Mel's speech was a little long. Homer getting shocked is becoming a little tiresome, and the pacing was slightly off. Apart from that, GREAT episode! Poor, poor Homer.
A (better than predicted A-)

Wow, what a fantastic episode! It was made very well and and there was plenty of humour and great characterisation here. Homer was NOT a jerkass, period. He was thoughtful and pretty caring. Animation was excellent. I can't understand anyone who says it's bad without reason i.e. immature comments like "THAT WAS F'ING CRAP!!!1!11!" -imo there are very few reasons to make it bad. If the rest of the season stays on par with this, we're in for the best season since at least 8. Keep it up, Mr. Jean and co! :D

SpongeBob No Pants

11-12-2003, 04:27 PM

i loved wiggum with his "Hippie to english dictionary"

and his "pipe down jules verne" line to eddie really got me on the 4th viewing (i don't know how i missed it before)

pat

11-12-2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by NoOneFamous
Did anyone else predict that Mona didn't really die as soon as they saw the accident? I immediatly thought "I bet she escaped before it crashed" and I was right.

Yeah, I thought that too. I'm predicting that she returns for one more episode before the series is over.

TheBigHurtBEGOOD

11-12-2003, 05:52 PM

I liked it overall, I didnt like how at the end Homer didnt see the message that his Mother saying she was alive and escaped fom the Van. IT would be better if Homer knew his Mother is still alive

4/5

BE GOOD

Charmy

11-12-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by TheBigHurtBEGOOD
I didnt like how at the end Homer didnt see the message that his Mother saying she was alive and escaped fom the Van. IT would be better if Homer knew his Mother is still alive

That has been clearly explained by Channel Surfer. Read before you post, please. :)

TheBigHurtBEGOOD

11-12-2003, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Charmy
That has been clearly explained by Channel Surfer. Read before you post, please. :)

OK I was just saying I didnt like that Homer thinks his Mother is dead

BE GOOD

SpongeBob No Pants

11-12-2003, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by TheBigHurtBEGOOD
OK I was just saying I didnt like that Homer thinks his Mother is dead

BE GOOD

actually i think that will work when she comes back in a future episode

imagine the emotion when homer finds out his mom is alive (but lets hope its not another 8 years before we see mona again)

TheBigHurtBEGOOD

11-12-2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by SpongeBob No Pants
actually i think that will work when she comes back in a future episode

imagine the emotion when homer finds out his mom is alive (but lets hope its not another 8 years before we see mona again)
THATS true I would hope its before 8 yers as well

BE GOOD

eddie

11-12-2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
what are you talking about, that's not what he means at all. he means, i presume, what I said earlier in a reply to comrade -

that's fairly obvious character development and a fairly logical difference in behaviour. in Mother Simpson he had innocence and wonder because before that he thought his mother was dead, and her return was something of a huge revelation. Here he also had that wonder and childlike quality, but it was coupled with frustration at fate constantly trying to take his mother away from him. So naturally he would be compulsive, and needy. He wasn't compulsive in Mother Simpson because there was no need for him to be, he behaved as his character logically would. He behaved as his character logically would here too, so he's frustrated and compulsive. For the writers to merely make Homer act exactly as he did in Mother Simpson would hardly be clever or insightful writing, would it? in fact, it would be very lazy.
Fine, fair enough. I don't even care enough to defend myself.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
How was there "no substance"? Please explain.

At the start of their reunion, Homer says, "I love you so much! But it's so hard for me to trust you." This would have been the perfect opportunity to create some memorable character-driven scenes. Instead he immediately declares "Oh, what the heck, give me a hug, you!", and bam, from that point on there's absolutely no interesting interaction between the two characters. They immediately have a secure relationship, which makes absolutely no sense.

From my viewpoint, most of the story revolves around an adventure regarding Marge's newspaper article and Mona and Homer's escape through from the law (Homer even refers to what he's doing as an adventure). Through this, the only "substance" comes from the motives in which Homer takes his action. I would have prefered this "substance" to come in the form of Homer, say, getting upset that his mother never made any more effort to come see him again, or clinging to her needlessly. Instead, his "upsettness" and clinging is rooted in the adventure. If they had just made it simply a character dramedy (like "Lisa's Substitute," "The Way We Was," and "MOTHER SIMPSON") the emotion and character would have been enough "substance." Instead, they think an adventure will bring about the "substance."

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
there was a lot more substance and complexity in the episode's conflict than, say, $pringfield, Lisa The Beauty Queen or Lisa On Ice.
"$pringfield" dealt with a realistic problem in a marriage. "Lisa on Ice" dealt with a realistic problem between brothers and sisters. "My Mother the Carjacker" dealt with an unrealistic problem between mother and son.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
And there wasn't a "shell of a plot" either, that's just blatant bullshit, whether you liked the episode or not.
Was there anything underneath the flimsy plot? As I said earlier, I didn't think so.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
Homer meets his mother, Homer loses his mother, Homer gets his mother back, Homer "bonds" with mother, Homer loses his mother again and his frustration increases, he determines to break her out of jail, before the conclusion where Homer loses her for (he thinks) the last time. That is a fully-formed plot with consistent themes and with focus. Fact.

How about: Homer meets hi mother, Homer loses his mother, Homer gets his mother back, Homer and his mother go through a series of flat, derivitive court house and "on the lam" scenes. Though a theme and plot were evident, they weren't fully-formed. The cops are always there at just the right moment

There were tinges of reality to the episode, like Homer's macaroni craft he made his mother, and his little court speech about his mom, but they never take this any farther to really affect me.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
I'm surprised you somehow missed that the entire episode was about their relationship

BUT IT WASN'T BELIEVEABLE! Do you truely believe a grown man could have an entirely comfortable and normal relationship with a woman he barely knows? Is there really any clear cut reason why Mona even comes back to Springfield?! When she came back in "Mother Simpson" the heat from her crime came back, shouldn't she have known that that same heat would come back again, even if it was years later? Isn't Mona supposed to be really smart and intuitive? Why would she just blatantly come back to Springfield to be with a grown man she barely knows? Why does Mona seem to have perfect self-esteem regarding herself as a good mother? Why doesn't she ever feel guilty or scared to show her face again to a son that could potentially hate her? They make true attempts to show these things, but I just don't buy them. It just isn't a believeable conflict.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
OK then, show me a fanscript of similar quality.
Oh, shut up. ;)

Tibor

11-12-2003, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by ComixFan
At the start of their reunion, Homer says, "I love you so much! But it's so hard for me to trust you." This would have been the perfect opportunity to create some memorable character-driven scenes. Instead he immediately declares "Oh, what the heck, give me a hug, you!", and bam, from that point on there's absolutely no interesting interaction between the two characters. They immediately have a secure relationship, which makes absolutely no sense.

He accepts her because he wants his mother back- which I found to be perfectly logical behaviour considering their previous development. Ignoring the possibility of her having to leave again isn't sloppy, it's an intentional development of Homer's character. And it isn't thrown aside either- attachment to his mother and fear of losing her again is constant throughout the story. And while you're at it, you might as well apply that criticism to Mother Simpson (not that it works any better than it does here).

Originally posted by ComixFan
From my viewpoint, most of the story revolves around an adventure regarding Marge's newspaper article and Mona and Homer's escape through from the law (Homer even refers to what he's doing as an adventure). Through this, the only "substance" comes from the motives in which Homer takes his action. I would have prefered this "substance" to come in the form of Homer, say, getting upset that his mother never made any more effort to come see him again, or clinging to her needlessly. Instead, his "upsettness" and clinging is rooted in the adventure. If they had just made it simply a character dramedy (like "Lisa's Substitute," "The Way We Was," and "MOTHER SIMPSON") the emotion and character would have been enough "substance." Instead, they think an adventure will bring about the "substance."

Is there something inherently wrong with developing the characters, emotion and situations through a more "adventurous" plot? They didn't try to derive substance from the plot- it all came from the characters. The "adventure" was merely the situation for the characters to inhabit. I thought it was dramatic and engaging anyway, light years from being the farcical KTAAR hootenanny you are casting it as.

Originally posted by ComixFan
"$pringfield" dealt with a realistic problem in a marriage. "Lisa on Ice" dealt with a realistic problem between brothers and sisters. "My Mother the Carjacker" dealt with an unrealistic problem between mother and son.

What's unrealistic about the relationship between Homer and Mona? It's developed naturally and logically. It's no more unrealistic than a precocious 8 year old with a penchant for dropping sage musings more suitable for someone exponentially older than her! Would you say that Bart's conflict in Bart Sells His Soul was an UNREALISTIC problem? You would say, "that's not the point, the strength and depth of his character makes the situation real." Ahah.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Was there anything underneath the flimsy plot? As I said earlier, I didn't think so.

I'd say there was a strong dramatic character driven conflict with Homer and his Mother. It's set up and executed that he's afraid of losing her and will do almost anything to stop it- for more detail look to DtB, Channel Surfer or Jafar's comprehensive reviews (especially the parallel with his own role as a father). And flimsy plot? More vague soundbytes, eh?

Originally posted by ComixFan
How about: Homer meets hi mother, Homer loses his mother, Homer gets his mother back, Homer and his mother go through a series of flat, derivitive court house and "on the lam" scenes. Though a theme and plot were evident, they weren't fully-formed. The cops are always there at just the right moment

Derivitive court/on the lam scenes? Derivitive of what? Deriving from the characters and developed logically yes. REPEAT: Mona getting taken away was critical to Homer's conflict! It wasn't there just for the hell of it, it wasn't there to inject it with craziness! If she didn't get taken away, the situation (and characters couldn't develop!

Originally posted by ComixFan
BUT IT WASN'T BELIEVEABLE! Do you truely believe a grown man could have an entirely comfortable and normal relationship with a woman he barely knows? Is there really any clear cut reason why Mona even comes back to Springfield?! When she came back in "Mother Simpson" the heat from her crime came back, shouldn't she have known that that same heat would come back again, even if it was years later? Isn't Mona supposed to be really smart and intuitive? Why would she just blatantly come back to Springfield to be with a grown man she barely knows? Why does Mona seem to have perfect self-esteem regarding herself as a good mother? Why doesn't she ever feel guilty or scared to show her face again to a son that could potentially hate her?

She comes back because she misses Homer. A full-grown man she barely knows?? GUH! It's her son! Her flesh and blood, her baby boy, her special little guy, etc! Did you watch not only this but also Mother Simpson and miss the fact that she LOVES him! She comes back because she wants to spend the time that she was unable to when Homer was a child. And they do. Again, apply these arguments to Mother Simpson. "I had to leave! But you didn't have to tell Homer I was dead!"

Off of this topic, but I recently read up on Abby Hoffman- do you think his time on the lam was something of an inspiration for Mother Simpsons backstory?

prince jafar allah

11-12-2003, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by ComixFan
Fine, fair enough. I don't even care enough to defend myself.

i'd be interested to hear your defense, though.

Originally posted by ComixFan
At the start of their reunion, Homer says, "I love you so much! But it's so hard for me to trust you." This would have been the perfect opportunity to create some memorable character-driven scenes. Instead he immediately declares "Oh, what the heck, give me a hug, you!", and bam, from that point on there's absolutely no interesting interaction between the two characters. They immediately have a secure relationship, which makes absolutely no sense.

well again, i feel you missed the point of that. it was supposed to be like you describe, it fits perfectly. Homer's fickle nature, his obvious joy at seeing his mother again, the fact it wasn't really her fault she kept being taken away from him....it makes sense, it's just slightly dark and very subtle character humor. it foreshadows the problems he faces later in the episode perfectly. you're making a huge misjudgement in seeing this as merely lazy writing. if the writers had wanted to just get the characters reconciled immediately, they wouldn't have bothered with the "...trust you" part at all!

Originally posted by ComixFan
From my viewpoint, most of the story revolves around an adventure regarding Marge's newspaper article and Mona and Homer's escape through from the law (Homer even refers to what he's doing as an adventure). Through this, the only "substance" comes from the motives in which Homer takes his action. I would have prefered this "substance" to come in the form of Homer, say, getting upset that his mother never made any more effort to come see him again,

that would never have worked, though. It would be totally out-of-character for Homer to hold a grudge against his mom, he has too much of a natural bond with her, is too desperate to be with her, and is too fickle in general to do such a thing. So no.

Originally posted by ComixFan
If they had just made it simply a character dramedy (like "Lisa's Substitute," "The Way We Was," and "MOTHER SIMPSON") the emotion and character would have been enough "substance." Instead, they think an adventure will bring about the "substance."

As I've said, this episode featured more of Mona interacting directly with Homer than Mother Simpson did, despite it having an "adventure" (which didn't start until the third act). So I don't see what your problem is. It would be more accurate to say Mother Simpson was merely a story about Homer's crazy wanted criminal mom coming back and Homer trying to stop her getting caught again by Mr Burns, than it would be to say My Mother The Carjacker was merely a story about Homer & Mona going on a crazy adventure. And it's not as if there have never been effective character stories rooted in "adventures" before either - The Dad Who Knew Too Little, Lost Our Lisa, Marge On The Lam, Bart On The Road, to name but four. This episode was never supposed to be like Lisa's Substitute or The Way We Was anyway - it was supposed to be light-hearted and fun. So by saying it should be more like them you're criticising it for not being something it was never intended to be in the first place.

Originally posted by ComixFan
"$pringfield" dealt with a realistic problem in a marriage. "Lisa on Ice" dealt with a realistic problem between brothers and sisters. "My Mother the Carjacker" dealt with an unrealistic problem between mother and son.

That wasn't my point. My point was that these episodes have no more "substance" or depth in their conflicts than My Mother The Carjacker does, but you don't complain about them, do you?

And to address the point you seem to have made, the problem here is no more unrealistic than Homer's mom being a hippie radical on the run from the law in the first place, is it?

Originally posted by ComixFan
Was there anything underneath the flimsy plot? As I said earlier, I didn't think so.

Yet you haven't really explained why. You "don't care enough" to do so, or something.

Originally posted by ComixFan
How about: Homer meets hi mother, Homer loses his mother, Homer gets his mother back, Homer and his mother go through a series of flat, derivitive court house and "on the lam" scenes. Though a theme and plot were evident, they weren't fully-formed.

Firstly, why are you inserting subjective stuff like "flat, derivative" when you're supposed to be describing the plot in basic terms. That's pathetic. And anyway, you're just rewording the episode plot negatively, and I know you know there's a lot more to the plot than that. OK, let's do this then - what if I said, in summarising Mother Simpson, "Homer's mom appears out of nowhere, Homer says hi to mom, Homer introduces mom to family, Burns convieniently happens to see and recognise Homer's mom and convieniently remembers some ancient encounter the two had (i.e. a hokey backstory that the writers had invented for the episode to have a bit of wackiness), Burns tries to track her down, but then she just happens to get away just in time (groan - trite or what?) thanks to some tipster or something. And then disappears again." Now, where did I go wrong in that description?

Originally posted by ComixFan
The cops are always there at just the right moment

nitpicking

Originally posted by ComixFan
There were tinges of reality to the episode, like Homer's macaroni craft he made his mother, and his little court speech about his mom, but they never take this any farther to really affect me.

the interactions between and behaviour of Homer & his mom was realistic, even if the plot wasn't (and even then, it was little more so than Mother Simpson, and less so than most S5 episodes).

Originally posted by ComixFan
BUT IT WASN'T BELIEVEABLE!

it was to me, and just about everyone else who's rated and reviewed it here.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Do you truely believe a grown man could have an entirely comfortable and normal relationship with a woman he barely knows?

if it's his mother, yes. and it was hardly a "normal" relationship. which particular parts of the episode bothered you in regards to this point?

Originally posted by ComixFan
Is there really any clear cut reason why Mona even comes back to Springfield?

there isn't any clear cut reason why she never had tried to go and meet Homer before Mother Simpson, when she never heard a word from him. A mother loses her beloved son for all that time, never hears a word from him and never even tries to pay him a brief visit? PREPOSTEROUS!!

Originally posted by ComixFan
When she came back in "Mother Simpson" the heat from her crime came back, shouldn't she have known that that same heat would come back again, even if it was years later? Isn't Mona supposed to be really smart and intuitive?

Her ignoring her head to arrange a cloak-and-dagger meeting is a lot more believable and in-character than her never trying to meet Homer in all those years they were apart.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Why would she just blatantly come back to Springfield to be with a grown man she barely knows?

because it's her son! damn......think about what you're typing.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Why does Mona seem to have perfect self-esteem regarding herself as a good mother? Why doesn't she ever feel guilty or scared to show her face again to a son that could potentially hate her?

aren't these questions relevant to Mother Simpson more than they are here? She already clarified in Mother Simpson that he doesn't hate her.

Originally posted by ComixFan
They make true attempts to show these things, but I just don't buy them. It just isn't a believeable conflict.

Only for you it isn't. ;)

SpongeBob No Pants

11-12-2003, 07:46 PM

woah, are you guys running for president of the internet with all those long posts

TheBigHurtBEGOOD

11-12-2003, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by SpongeBob No Pants
woah, are you guys running for president of the internet with all those long posts
I never post long, if I do I lose focus and get bored easily

BE GOOD

Jolly Bengali

11-12-2003, 07:52 PM

Jafar has a lot of time on his hands, yeh... ah well, it's about equal in worth to any long-winded diatribe about music or cinema.

tim_duncan2000

11-12-2003, 07:53 PM

Firstly, why are you inserting subjective stuff like "flat, derivative" when you're supposed to be describing the plot in basic terms. That's pathetic. And anyway, you're just rewording the episode plot negatively, and I know you know there's a lot more to the plot than that. OK, let's do this then - what if I said, in summarising Mother Simpson, "Homer's mom appears out of nowhere, Homer says hi to mom, Homer introduces mom to family, Burns convieniently happens to see and recognise Homer's mom and convieniently remembers some ancient encounter the two had (i.e. a hokey backstory that the writers had invented for the episode to have a bit of wackiness), Burns tries to track her down, but then she just happens to get away just in time (groan - trite or what?) thanks to some tipster or something. And then disappears again." Now, where did I go wrong in that description?
Not that I agree with ComixFan's assessment of the episode (I didn't have much of a problem with the way they handled the relationship between Homer and his mom), but don't you do the same thing in some of your reviews? No matter what you claim to base your opinions on, you can't get away from using subjective terms. What you think is funny, others may hate (there are jokes I hated from some Season 13 episodes and I can't figure out why you like them or why they don't ruin the episode for you. You didn't like my explanation for hating the jokes, but I don't know what else to say. If some jokes are not funny, they are not funny. I might be able to explain my reasons somewhat, but you often are not satisfied with them).

Tibor

11-12-2003, 07:55 PM

Apologies for fielding that one. Thought Jafar had logged off... That and I was itching for some quote/paragraph/quote/paragraph debating action.

SpongeBob No Pants

11-12-2003, 08:10 PM

the question is, who will win the arguement and become the master debator

prince jafar allah

11-12-2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by tim_duncan2000
Not that I agree with ComixFan's assessment of the episode (I didn't have much of a problem with the way they handled the relationship between Homer and his mom), but don't you do the same thing in some of your reviews? No matter what you claim to base your opinions on, you can't get away from using subjective terms.

you're missing the point. i had described the episode using basic FACTUAL plot points, and I can only presume he was attempting to do the same.

Originally posted by tim_duncan2000
What you think is funny, others may hate (there are jokes I hated from some Season 13 episodes and I can't figure out why you like them or why they don't ruin the episode for you. You didn't like my explanation for hating the jokes, but I don't know what else to say. If some jokes are not funny, they are not funny. I might be able to explain my reasons somewhat, but you often are not satisfied with them).

Replace "season 13" with "season 9" and I could pretty much repeat that entire paragraph back at you. ;)

Originally posted by Tibor
Apologies for fielding that one. Thought Jafar had logged off... That and I was itching for some quote/paragraph/quote/paragraph debating action.

No problem....your replies were either fine companions to or superior versions of my comments, and I stole much of the discussion from Channel Surfer in the first place anyway....

eddie

11-12-2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Tibor
He accepts her because he wants his mother back- which I found to be perfectly logical behaviour considering their previous development.

But why would he want his mother back, when metaphorically speaking, he never had a mother? I hate to use this as an example, but think of "The Principal and the Pauper."

Originally posted by Tibor
Is there something inherently wrong with developing the characters, emotion and situations through a more "adventurous" plot?

Of course not, except this episode's adventure wasn't interesting, creative, or entertaining. It was just the usually character-on-the-run thing. Countless episodes have done this.

Originally posted by Tibor
I thought it was dramatic and engaging anyway, light years from being the farcical KTAAR hootenanny you are casting it as.

Let's not go nuts. Just for the record, while I don't like the adventure in this episode, it's still not as bad at "Kill the Alligator and Run."

Originally posted by Tibor
What's unrealistic about the relationship between Homer and Mona? It's developed naturally and logically.

What would be natural would be Homer being a little taken aback and abrehensive about being with a mother he only knew for the first five years of his life. Not just immediately "Mom! I love you! Give me a hug!" And this applies to "Mother Simpson," as well, now that I think about it.

Originally posted by Tibor
Would you say that Bart's conflict in Bart Sells His Soul was an UNREALISTIC problem?

No, I wouldn't. Questioning faith is a very realistic problem for a ten year-old kid. Homer's instant love and devotion for his mother after, like, twenty years isn't a realistic "problem."

Originally posted by Tibor
And flimsy plot? More vague soundbytes, eh?
No, I just used the word flimsy to sum up what I had said earlier about the plot being derivitive of past episodes, having an unconvincing relationship, and an adventurous plot I didn't find fun or amusing.

Originally posted by Tibor
Derivitive court/on the lam scenes? Derivitive of what?
Of past episodes.. Despite everything else, I'm just sick of seeing the Simpsons characters in court.

Originally posted by Tibor
REPEAT: Mona getting taken away was critical to Homer's conflict!

Of course it was, but they didn't go anywhere from there.

Originally posted by Tibor
She comes back because she misses Homer. A full-grown man she barely knows?? GUH! It's her son! Her flesh and blood, her baby boy, her special little guy, etc! Did you watch not only this but also Mother Simpson and miss the fact that she LOVES him! Do you have a mother? If not, are you unaware that in humans and quite a few mammals there is a terribly strong bond between mother and son? She comes back because she wants to spend the time that she was unable to when Homer was a child. And they do. Again, apply these arguments to Mother Simpson. "I had to leave! But you didn't have to tell Homer I was dead!"

MONA HAS ONLY BEEN AROUND FOR APPROXIMATELY FIVE OR SIX YEARS OF HOMER'S LIFE. Yes, she would have a natural, biological love for her son, but she still doesn't know him. If you were adopted when you were six, and were reuinited with your birth mother when you were thirty-eight would you instantly form a complete bond with your mother, and wouldn't you be a little skeptical about instantly accepting the mother that abandoned you?

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
i'd be interested to hear your defense, though.

Eh, I don't have the strength in me to debate about the Simpsons that much. That's why I only occasionally jump into these kinds of lengthy, long-winded discussions.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
it was supposed to be like you describe, it fits perfectly. Homer's fickle nature, his obvious joy at seeing his mother again, the fact it wasn't really her fault she kept being taken away from him....it makes sense, it's just slightly dark and very subtle character humor. it foreshadows the problems he faces later in the episode perfectly. you're making a huge misjudgement in seeing this as merely lazy writing. if the writers had wanted to just get the characters reconciled immediately, they wouldn't have bothered with the "...trust you" part at all!

Yeah, but I guess I just needed a bit more of that fickle nature.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
that would never have worked, though. It would be totally out-of-character for Homer to hold a grudge against his mom, he has too much of a natural bond with her, is too desperate to be with her, and is too fickle in general to do such a thing. So no.

Well, then that just must be a problem I've had with Homer from the start, for some reason. And you say Homer's to desperate to be with her. But why? Why has he never made any other attempt to find her, or something?

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
And it's not as if there have never been effective character stories rooted in "adventures" before either - The Dad Who Knew Too Little, Lost Our Lisa, Marge On The Lam, Bart On The Road, to name but four. This episode was never supposed to be like Lisa's Substitute or The Way We Was anyway - it was supposed to be light-hearted and fun. So by saying it should be more like them you're criticising it for not being something it was never intended to be in the first place.

I wasn't supposed to be like "TWWW" or "Substitute" but I would have preferred it be like that. Also, those other episodes you mentioned are great examples as to how tired and overused the elements of this episode are.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
That wasn't my point. My point was that these episodes have no more "substance" or depth in their conflicts than My Mother The Carjacker does, but you don't complain about them, do you?[/i]

That realism I mentioned in "$pringfield" and "Lisa on Ice" is what brought about the substanial conflict.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
And to address the point you seem to have made, the problem here is no more unrealistic than Homer's mom being a hippie radical on the run from the law in the first place, is it?

True, but it'd be nicer if they made the whole hippie racial thing more subtle and mysterious (for lack of a better word).

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
Yet you haven't really explained why. You "don't care enough" to do so, or something.

Sure I did. There was no believeable character (IN MY OPINION) under said flimsy plot. If I didn't make it clear before, keep in mind I don't usually do this at NHC, and never took debate in high school. :)

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
Firstly, why are you inserting subjective stuff like "flat, derivative" when you're supposed to be describing the plot in basic terms. That's pathetic.
Sorry, I'm new at this.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
nitpicking

But isn't that what makes a fanboy a fanboy? I guess my only defense for that is that in "Mother Simpson," Burns recognizes Mona, while here Lou just happens to notice that it's her, despite the fact that he is usually shown as a rather poor police officer.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
it was to me, and just about everyone else who's rated and reviewed it here.

Well, that's what makes opinions, opinions, right? Maybe I set the bars too high, but I know when OFF has convincing characters, and I guess I just didn't get it this time around.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
if it's his mother, yes. and it was hardly a "normal" relationship. which particular parts of the episode bothered you in regards to this point?

Well, if my mother abandoned me at five years old, and then I reunite with her when I'm thirty nine, I wouldn't be all smiles and giggles at amusement parks. It's be awkward silence, and awkward question and answer sessions.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
there isn't any clear cut reason why she never had tried to go and meet Homer before Mother Simpson, when she never heard a word from him. A mother loses her beloved son for all that time, never hears a word from him and never even tries to pay him a brief visit? PREPOSTEROUS!!

Ack, I didn't want this to turn this way regarding "Mother Simpson," but, oh, well.

But her whole clever newspaper and meetings thing was even less convincing than the two characters just bumping into each other at the start of the first episode.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
because it's her son! damn......think about what you're typing.

I am! And I was sure you and Tibor would say this. This goes back to the fact that over the course of Homer's life time, she's barely been a part of it. If I was Mona, I'd be very nervous and feel "weird" about seeing my son again.

Originally posted by Mohammed Jafar
Only for you it isn't. ;)

Then it just means we agree to disagree.

*phew* We done yet, fellas? :D

Tibor

11-12-2003, 09:10 PM

Noooot quite.

Originally posted by ComixFan
[B]But why would he want his mother back, when metaphorically speaking, he never had a mother? I hate to use this as an example, but think of "The Principal and the Pauper."

semantics. what I mean (and I suspect you know I mean) is that Homer wanted the things he had missed in his childhood- as demonstrated with the montage of Homer riding his bike, acting in the play etc. Rosebud.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Let's not go nuts. Just for the record, while I don't like the adventure in this episode, it's still not as bad at "Kill the Alligator and Run."

Style, not quality. "The wacky adventure to try and make a plot with nosubstance interesting" criticism you used applies for KTAAR.

Originally posted by ComixFan
What would be natural would be Homer being a little taken aback and abrehensive about being with a mother he only knew for the first five years of his life. Not just immediately "Mom! I love you! Give me a hug!" And this applies to "Mother Simpson," as well, now that I think about it.

And I maintain that it isn't sloppiness- Homer is initially apprehensive but pushes it aside as he doesn't want to even entertain the notion that he might lose her again. It's a natural psychological reaction- denial of the inevitable to enjoy the moment. He goes through a similar moment of trying to cope with these issues in Mother Simpson ("I'm a horrible son and no mother would want me") when Marge expresses doubt over Homer's attachment to his mother. It was dealt with and wrapped up there.

Originally posted by ComixFan
No, I wouldn't. Questioning faith is a very realistic problem for a ten year-old kid. Homer's instant love and devotion for his mother after, like, twenty years isn't a realistic "problem."

Questioning faith is a realisitc experience for a kid, maybe, but is going on a harrowing journey of self-realization, quite literally soul searching? Your arguments are still focusing on the device rather than the execution, therein lies the fault. As I said, I felt bother were made realistic through the character development and interaction, much of the exposition already done in Mother Simpson allowing this episode to move in another direction. Homer certainly has a childish streak to him, and his desire to relive his childhood plays perfectly for me. Subjective seeds and stems I guess.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Of course it was, but they didn't go anywhere from there.

Except to the most interesting character dilemna in quite some time, a gripping plot climax, and a thoughtful ending. :D

Originally posted by ComixFan
MONA HAS ONLY BEEN AROUND FOR APPROXIMATELY FIVE OR SIX YEARS OF HOMER'S LIFE. Yes, she would have a natural, biological love for her son, but she still doesn't know him. If you were adopted when you were six, and were reuinited with your birth mother when you were thirty-eight would you instantly form a complete bond with your mother, and wouldn't you be a little skeptical about instantly accepting the mother that abandoned you?

That was covered in Mother Simpson. Homer was apprehensive, and skeptical, she was confronted and explained why she had to leave. See first comment about his denial and the above comment about Homer wishing to relive his childhood. In any case, it would make more sense for Homer to be skeptical about reconciliation (no doubt that Mona has a much more vivid recollection of her time with Homer, being an adult).

You've so far recognized at least two faults in Mother Simpson rather than yield a good point to this episode. Your tenacity is to be commended, but don't you think you're working backwards? ;)

Tibor

11-12-2003, 09:44 PM

Excuse the double post-

And I still feel that those are pretty much nitpicks. If more time had been spent on literally correcting those supposed fallacies in either Mother Simpson episode, the plotting would have suffered. Aside from being patronising and insulting for not letting the audience fill in the blanks- it's always better to show rather than tell.

Basically, for Homer's desire to be with his mother here to be illogical, you would have to find the development of their relationship in Mother Simpson to be unconvincing.

Mike Scully

11-12-2003, 10:15 PM

Decent episode, and probably the best season premier since season 8's You Only Move Twice (but that wasn't too hard). Follows in the tradition of other emotional adventure episodes as Dad Who Knew Too Little, Marge on the Lam, and Lost Our Lisa.

But was there a reason for this sequel to exist? Most of the sequels on the show that worked added something to the original, and provided closure to the storyliine. Artie Ziff, a bit of a stereotypical nerd in The Way We Was, became far more fleshed out and fascinating in Half-Decent Proposal, and it gave some much-needed closure to Homer's feelings of jealousy and worthlessness from The Way We Was. Brother Can You Spare Two Dimes gave far more exploration into portraying Herb as a savvy and self-made man, so that we could understand how he became wealthy in Oh Borhter Where Art Thou, plus it redeemed Homer.

My Mother the Carjacker didn't explore much that wasn't already covered in Mother Simpson, and seemed starved for originality. Again, we got Homer's apprehensiveness about whether or not his mother care about him, again we got him denying it. Again, we got jokes about Homer wanting to impress his mother. Homer lost his mom to the law when he was a kid, then at the end of Mother Simpson. In this episode, well, Homer loses his mom to the law at the end of the first act, and again at the end of the second act. It seemed a tad repetitive to me. And by the end, we're at the same place we were at the end of Mother Simpson, with Homer wondering if he'll ever see him mom again (leaving room for a sequel?).

There was some development, such as Homer becoming more compulsive and desperate by the 3rd act. And Roger Myers III makes a good point about the subtle difference between this ending and the ending to Mother Simpson. Not quite enough to make this episode a bonafide classic; otherwise, the humor and plot was fine. Grade: B

prince jafar allah

11-13-2003, 04:45 AM

Good review Scully, nothing I can argue with there, fair points all round. Though our grades aren't too far off anyway (your B is equivalent to my B+, remember)

Originally posted by ComixFan
It was just the usually character-on-the-run thing. Countless episodes have done this.

With different characters in different situations. Point out one way in which any of this episode's dynamic was rehashed from previous adventure episodes. What you're saying makes about as much sense as saying Mother Simpson was a rehash of Brother Where Art Thou.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Of past episodes.. Despite everything else, I'm just sick of seeing the Simpsons characters in court.

It wasn't derivative. Just because it was in a court doesn't mean it was derivative of past court scenes. You summed up the problem - you're just sick of seeing the Simpsons characters in court. it has nothing to do with it being "derivative".

Originally posted by ComixFan
Of course it was, but they didn't go anywhere from there.

I've already explained, countless times it seems, that they did. Where did I go wrong?

You may not have liked where they went from there, but to say that they never attempted to build a coherent story is just blatantly false.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Yeah, but I guess I just needed a bit more of that fickle nature.

So...you complained about a scene because it had Homer's fickle nature, and now you're saying it didn't have enough? I don't follow.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Well, then that just must be a problem I've had with Homer from the start, for some reason.

Not a problem with the episode then, a problem with YOU. ;)

Originally posted by ComixFan
And you say Homer's to desperate to be with her? But why? Why has he never made any other attempt to find her, or something?

Because he had no idea where she was for a start. And I would presume Mona would have dissuaded him from him trying to find her before she left in Mother Simpson anyway.

Originally posted by ComixFan
I wasn't supposed to be like "TWWW" or "Substitute" but I would have preferred it be like that. Also, those other episodes you mentioned are great examples as to how tired and overused the elements of this episode are.

So, tell me which elements of those past three episodes this episode rehashed.

Originally posted by ComixFan
That realism I mentioned in "$pringfield" and "Lisa on Ice" is what brought about the substanial conflict.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about depth and substance to the characters and the way they interact. Little to do with realism. Realism may make a conflict relatable, but it doesn't make the conflict any more substantial. Tell me how the characters and the conflicts in those episodes had more depth and were more complex than this one.

Originally posted by ComixFan
True, but it'd be nicer if they made the whole hippie racial thing more subtle and mysterious (for lack of a better word).

subtle like....having Burns roll up in a tank blaring Wagner, then having the cops from Dragnet smash the door down?

Originally posted by ComixFan
Sure I did. There was no believeable character (IN MY OPINION) under said flimsy plot.

Well you haven't explained why. You've listed some irrelevant plotholes, which as Tibor has said were all covered in Mother Simpson anyway, and decided you have a "problem with Homer" or something. And the you haven't explained why the plot was flimsy either. You've said it was rehashed, which even if that were true (you haven't made much of a case for this yet), it doesn't make it flimsy.

Originally posted by ComixFan
and never took debate in high school.

you should be glad you went to a high school that had the money to teach "debate" in the first place, I didn't...

Originally posted by ComixFan
But isn't that what makes a fanboy a fanboy?

I don't know what a fanboy is, but uh, I try to never nitpick.

Originally posted by ComixFan
I guess my only defense for that is that in "Mother Simpson," Burns recognizes Mona, while here Lou just happens to notice that it's her, despite the fact that he is usually shown as a rather poor police officer.

yeah, well, that's a extremely weak and extremely nitpicky defense to be honest. The Simpsons is full of hundreds of minor continuity plot holes, this is a fairly well known fact. And even if you did choose to care about this particular one, it's so insignificant I don't believe it affected your enjoyment of the episode any, it's just something you've pulled out your ass to criticise it here.

Originally posted by ComixFan
Well, if my mother abandoned me at five years old, and then I reunite with her when I'm thirty nine, I wouldn't be all smiles and giggles at amusement parks.

you're not Homer Simpson. It's not at all like Homer to wallow in self-pity or hold a grudge.

And again, this is a problem with Mother Simpson, not My Mother The Carjacker. So I really have no idea what you're doing here.

Originally posted by ComixFan
It's be awkward silence, and awkward question and answer sessions.

Well the "awkward question and answer sessions" were already covered in Mother Simpson, so I don't see your problem there. "Awkward silence"? See above. That would be unlike Homer.

Originally posted by ComixFan

But her whole clever newspaper and meetings thing was even less convincing than the two characters just bumping into each other at the start of the first episode.

And of course, people faking their own death is a easily convincing, everyday occurrence, isn't it? :D

Originally posted by ComixFan
I am! And I was sure you and Tibor would say this. This goes back to the fact that over the course of Homer's life time, she's barely been a part of it. If I was Mona, I'd be very nervous and feel "weird" about seeing my son again.

THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH MOTHER SIMPSON! It was already covered there, as Tibor explained.